Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[LynnieB]

ok let's git down and dirty........

many of black women's self esteem issues are directly related to their hair's texture, its just that simple and that complex. i never said all but many and it's deep enough that an entire website is devoted alleviating these issues.

we can go round and round but the site and the what it stands for can speak for itself.

please, go ask the ladies there.........they don't all bite

 

[navsegda]

ok let's git down and dirty........

many of black women's self esteem issues are directly related to their hair's texture, its just that simple and that complex. i never said all but many and it's deep enough that an entire website is devoted alleviating these issues.

we can go round and round but the site and the what it stands for can speak for itself.

please, go ask the ladies there.........they don't all bite

Hahaha@all.

I am glad that you said many. If you know several black women who do have these problems, then you can say many. Many is different from MOST and ALL. You can say that MOST people are relaxed based on a particular area or most people are natural based on a particular area because this is something we can see and measure. But we don't really know what's going on in MOST people's heads. Human thought processes are really more complex than just one simple issue a lot of the time. I'm not having tunnel vision I'm just being real. I think if we could REALLY see what was going on inside a lot of people's heads, we'd be very shocked.

Also, how do you feel about this statement there?

"We don't debate the wonders of relaxing and we don't talk about the benefits of relaxing on Nappturality because frankly, there aren't any benefits to using that chemical."

 

[LynnieB]

girl now you know you're asking the wrong woman.....

i'm 12 months into transitioning and never eva going back! for wha?

i'm not afraid of my natural hair i'm one of those women for whom it never occurred to not relax......sounds crazy don't it?

in walks alopecia out went the box

NP's feeling is this.......we LOVE natural hair. if you do indeed love YOUR natural hair there ARE NO benefits to using a relaxer, see?



ETA: i'm doing pretty good on the typos for being up all night at work, aren't I? lol
i gotta get some sleep in a few but will stop back in after i get to work (gotta love wi-fi networks!!!!)

 

[mili]

Hello Everyone this is Mili,

I am new to the forum, I totally agreee with FlowerHair's statment!!

 

[CaramelMiSS]

Asha: Do not be destroyed. That was not the final word. It also talked about restoration if you keep reading. I am not saying that this refers to black people, I am just saying that even if it did, READ THE WHOLE STORY AND THEN YOU CAN BE ENCOURAGED bonjour

Thank you!!!!!

I could always remember my father and everyone else saying Jesus was black. SO what does that mean Jesus is black, well I took that to heart, and if he was black and from the tribe of Judah, then hell, most black people and from the twelve tribes. But anyways that's all I wanted to say you will hear no more from me.

 

[missann]

Also, how do you feel about this statement there?

"We don't debate the wonders of relaxing and we don't talk about the benefits of relaxing on Nappturality because frankly, there aren't any benefits to using that chemical."

Naturally, I think it's great!

 

[Mahalialee4]

I have never met one black person who had self esteem issues related to hair. I think people make up things to support their point.

why is it some peopole think other races look down on black hair so if we dont like it they wont. this is simply bs. other races accept blacks for who they are. its blacks who blow the differences out of the water and continually segregate based on superficial issues. for this to come up in a hair discussion is proof that whites owe us something too for our hair issues . this is only what i understand from this 'we must love our hair cause other races look down' idea.

Thank you for being so honest about how you feel.
I am sorry if this offends you, but your statement leaves me feeling:
(a) You are not friends with any AA women who are comfortable enough to trust you with their feelings or experiences on this issue
(b) You can not empathize or identify with this issue.
(c) You have totally negated 100% of anyone else's experiences than your own and have inferred that any experience or knowledge that anyone else has contrary to your "experience" is made up
(d) That you have no knowledge of the roots and teachings of racism and the specific scientific statements that have been made regarding our hair
(e) And that chemists (white) promote the "straight hair" is beautiful and produce an immense variety of chemical straighteners to promote this belief
and if an AA walks into a white salon, the first thing they want to do is straighten your hair, because they "either do not work with your kind of hair" or refer you to a black salon! and
(f) You have spoken for every single black and white woman in America.
But if that is your honest belief and feeling thank you for being honest about them. I am not going to debate your feelings with you. My posts were to provide understanding and support to the original poster on this topic.

As for the women on Nappturality, the majority of those were former relaxers, hot combers, or jerricurlers, etc who tried to maintain a texture change in their hair and were "not" embracing their natural hair and paid a bitter price, that is what brought them to that site! and had been among those who had tried to "adhere to the standard of beauty" promoted by racism BEFORE THEY FINALLY SAW THE LIGHT about what they had been doing to themselves and why. God bless those ladies!

And ladies, Zailless is being honest, I assume she is because she put it in writing, so we are not going to turn this into an ugly thread, right. We do understand that some people really feel this way. As far as the statement about chemicals made there, it is at the crux of their mission and philosophy, I see nothing wrong with it, because THAT IS WHAT THEIR SITE IS ABOUT and they cover that issue in all of its totality and get right down to the real nitty gritty. And that is what this thread is about. It is about getting at the roots of belief systems about the texture of our hair. bonjour

 

[Mahalialee4]

I'm not a member, YET, HAHAHAHA.

I totally agree that it may be hair acceptance that brings them in. However, hair acceptance and having problems with self esteem personally do not have to be related issues. (((Self esteem implies a personal problem))); acceptance encompasses a much greater landscape (you could be accepting of yourself and others and help them with their own issues but it doesn't mean you are going through the same thing).

Yes, self esteem is a very PERSONAL PROBLEM, but in order for people to really address it, and heal they have to understand the root of the problem. They have to as the Bible says "Take the axe to the root!" and you cannot help anyone if you are yourself unable to face the truth THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM, about the root of the problem and empathize with how it is affecting THEM. What kind of comfort and awareness and insight could be offered that would HELP THEM HEAL when you have already judged them as delusional??? That is why the moderator on Nappurality has helped so many. She can relate. bonjour

 

[Enchantmt]

One thing I think to note while speaking of esteem issues: Just because someone is affected by this doesnt mean they are totally impaired to where they cant function or be sucessful. I hate to use this example because when it happened I cringed, but even Oprah, with all her money, was SO PROUD of a pony tail that took her xx numbers of years to get she had to proclaim it on national tv. Is she successful? Definitely. However there was still a part of her that wanted her hair to be something she could be proud of, and from what can be gathered from her comments over the years something that she has struggled with to a certain degree.

 

[Mahalialee4]

One thing I think to note while speaking of esteem issues: Just because someone is affected by this doesnt mean they are totally impaired to where they cant function or be sucessful. I hate to use this example because when it happened I cringed, but even Oprah, with all her money, was SO PROUD of a pony tail that took her xx numbers of years to get she had to proclaim it on national tv. Is she successful? Definitely. However there was still a part of her that wanted her hair to be something she could be proud of, and from what can be gathered from her comments over the years something that she has struggled with to a certain degree.

Yesss!!! I watched that show, and listened to th comment she made...explaining to her mainly white audience why it was such a big deal and I know that when white people see so many black women with arts and craft hair and spending "money they don't have', on lace front weaves and stick straight phony ponies on top of drastically different textured hair, they wonder, "what the world?" But of course, the scientists have already told us all "black people cannot grow long hair" so they probably understand. lol

 

[Zahrah]

I just want to say there is nothing wrong with kinky, coily hair. Some white people are born with it, especially in parts of Russia and some of the surrounding countries where the weather is frigid. I have met a few personally with 4a-4b hair. Some white Jewish people also have kinky, coily hair.

I agree. I work with a Jewish woman who relaxes her hair and flat irons it everyday. AND, it is severely damaged from this. She is now sporting a bang that she did not cut, it was made from everyday heat.

 

[Bunny77]

I have never met one black person who had self esteem issues related to hair. I think people make up things to support their point.

Oh come freakin' on... look, if you haven't met any black person like that, then good for you and tell me where you live so I can move there and be in utopia... but then to accuse folks of making stuff up? WTF? Maybe I should accuse you of trying to avoid the subject because you don't wanna hear ideas that contradict what you believe.

Forget Nappturality, just read this darn thread and you'll see ONE person who flat out admitted she had a self esteem issue because of her hair, so now you know of one. Welcome to reality.

And you've been on this site long enough to see others express the same belief in other threads, so maybe should we say that YOU are the one making things up or just ignoring what you don't want to see because you don't feel that way?

I am trying to be civil and keep this conversation decent, but this is getting ridiculous that someone would say that folks are making stuff up to make a point when hair has been an issue for black people since we got off the boat. Even the most enlightened folks on this board cannot deny that hair is an issue in the black community and the reason it remains an issue is because folks can't be HONEST and talk about it.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I agree. I work with a Jewish woman who relaxes her hair and flat irons it everyday. AND, it is severely damaged from this. She is now sporting a bang that she did not cut, it was made from everyday heat.

And she relaxes because? And it is damaged because?...trying to make her hair to conform to a standard of personal beauty , consciously or subconciously or just as a matter of choice? or PREFERENCE? Her and a whole lot of white ladies too. HMM bonjour

 

[Mahalialee4]

Oh come freakin' on... look, if you haven't met any black person like that, then good for you and tell me where you live so I can move there and be in utopia... but then to accuse folks of making stuff up? WTF? Maybe I should accuse you of trying to avoid the subject because you don't wanna hear ideas that contradict what you believe.

Forget Nappturality, just read this darn thread and you'll see ONE person who flat out admitted she had a self esteem issue because of her hair, so now you know of one. Welcome to reality.

And you've been on this site long enough to see others express the same belief in other threads, so maybe should we say that YOU are the one making things up or just ignoring what you don't want to see because you don't feel that way?

I am trying to be civil and keep this conversation decent, but this is getting ridiculous that someone would say that folks are making stuff up to make a point when hair has been an issue for black people since we got off the boat. Even the most enlightened folks on this board cannot deny that hair is an issue in the black community and the reason it remains an issue is because folks can't be HONEST and talk about it.

cool sistah! you are not going to play into this, right? you understand about "hair splitting" right????? ("many" versus "all" and all that)....cool...I got ya back!!! (hug)

 

[longnapps]

I don't find my hair to be difficult at allerplexed as a matter of fact I know of alot of my asian and hispanic friends who do the same things we talk about on this board. Daily blowdrying and manipulation is dangerous to any type of hair.

 

[navsegda]

Slightly OT but speaking of curses in this thread:

Has anyone heard that white skin only came about because of leprosy and this is the basis of the white race?

I heard this as a little girl and I was like "WTF. People cannot be serious." Does anyone actually believe there is any validity to this? I just read this again now on a site where someone says "The Bible says all white people are lepers, having leprosy, and you are unclean." If you think this is absurd, do you think it's just as absurd for someone to believe that kinky hair is the way it is because of a curse? Or does a curse (whether hair or skin) only apply to one race? Or could every race have some type of curse? Or does no race have ANY curse?

 

[Bunny77]

If you feel that someone is truly in danger of hurting themselves (physically or emotionally) or others, then it makes sense for something to be a big deal. However, if a girl just says "I don't like my texture because it's hard to manage" then no one should read that much into it unless she chooses to elaborate. This is when it should not be a big deal. Now if you give her suggestions on how she could use product X,Y, or Z to make her natural texture more manageable, then that doesn't mean you are making a big deal out of things. She may be thankful or she may think you have overstepped your boundaries, who knows? However, if you give her these suggestions and then go on and on about how she should accept and love her natural texture and stop trying to fight it because it's not meant to be forced into submission, then that's when you can become insulting. Sometimes when we do make something a big deal that really isn't (from the person's standpoint in my example), it does more harm than good. Because of what we may wrongly perceive as being a self esteem issue based on our experiences with others, if we voice it as that without further elaboration or invitation on the commenter's part, then we can indirectly cause it TO become a self esteem issue or other psychological problem.

I definitely think there's an art to addressing people and helping, but I'll just give some examples I have experienced that make me see it's not that simple.

Outside of hair boards, I don't discuss hair. I don't tell people they should go natural, I don't criticize relaxers, I just don't really talk about hair unless someone asks. And when I do, I give tips on hair care (usually natural, since that's what I have, but I also talk about stretching relaxers).

But what usually happens is this... I get these kinds of responses... "Well, that sounds too difficult," "I can't get a job with this hair," "Ooh, I couldn't stretch a relaxer for 3 months with this nappy mess on my head," "Well, it looks good on you, but my hair is unmanageable."

So then I might present an alternative... "No, your hair probably isn't as unmanageable as you think, you just have to manage it differently, and here's how. Answer?: "Oh yeah? Try coming to my house and managing this... girl you just don't know!"

And the conversation goes nowhere because many folks simply aren't willing to really get down deep inside themselves and challenge the negative thoughts they have about their hair, no matter how nicely you put it. And in some cases, yeah, it bugs me because they are asking me questions/making comments, yet they don't wanna "hear" one thing I'm saying because their mind is so closed... and why do you think that is? And why shouldn't someone suggest that they love and accept their natural texture if all they're doing is complaining about it? Sure, we can say, "Yeah girl, it's a pain in the butt," all day long but then what? Why is it fair for them to subject me or others to such negativity, but then when I suggest the alternative of loving and accepting their hair, suddenly I'm being pushy?

Doesn't seem fair to me... I not only have to be criticized for my choice (and natural women are going to get FAR more criticism than relaxed/pressed women -- I've never heard anyone telling a relaxed woman that she won't get a job/man/respect with her hair) but then I can't dare say anything "positive" about loving one's natural texture because then I'm not "accepting" their choice. Sounds like a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation to me...

As long as I'm not questioning one's blackness or criticizing the person, I don't see what's wrong with telling a frustrated black woman to start loving and accepting her hair (cause no matter how you choose to wear it, you have to accept it's advantages and limitations) and I will continue to do so IF we are having a discussion about hair. Being understanding and accepting of one's choice doesn't mean I have to hear whining and moaning all the darn time without saying something in response.

How do we know what most of the black community thinks about their hair texture or skin color? Assumptions can lead us in very dark places...We can for instance make a statement based on what we see (texture demographics, etc.) but we jump the gun when we say that most people feel a certain way, too. We may personally know several black women who have voiced that they have self-esteem or other issues because of hair texture but that doesn't mean these are the majority.

It may not be the majority, but it is a LOT of people. I grew up in a large majority black city and talk about hair texture and skin color happened ALL THE DANGON TIME, so that's how most of us on this board "know" what A LOT of people are thinking.

Now, I don't know where you grew up and maybe you didn't have this experience... if so, then great... but I guess what is kinda sorta bugging me about these comments is that they seem to be ignoring a reality that isn't exactly hard to put a finger on. If you were born and raised in the USA and spent a lot of time around black people, then you had to have heard negative talk about hair... if not your own hair, other people's hair. And skin color as well. I don't even think you can call it an assumption because it is as common as the sun rising and setting every day in the lives of most people who grew up in majority black areas in the USA. Can I say it's a majority? No. Can I say it's a lot? Heck yeah, and I'll say it all day long!

Again, if you grew up differently, then I understand why you feel the way you do. But if you grew up in a place like Detroit, where even today I can go for days without seeing a natural-haired black woman in a city of 900,000 people (and 70% of those are black), or seeing beauty salons on every corner in every neighborhood and yet so far I have only found TWO that can do natural hair outside of braids....then you wouldn't say it's an assumption...

By the way, I am interested in knowing your background, because maybe I could understand more why you believe the way you do.

If someone does a study though with say, 20,000 black women (such as by a mass questionnaire) and then the majority of them express self esteem issues over their natural hair texture, then we're getting somewhere.

I'd bet a significant sum of money that I could do this study of 20,000 black women in Detroit alone and get you that majority, let alone the rest of the country.

I am glad we can have a civil conversation about this.

Well, I might have lost my civility in another post, , but I hope I civily addressed yours!

 

[DragonPearl]

navsegda, why don't you ask them? not being funny or anything, it's just a great question that i'm sure alot of the members would not mind answering at all.

here's the greeting page (mission statement).......personally, i would say hair acceptance issues bring folks in initially.........

the mission statement of NP http://www.nappturality.com/index.php

I was on NP when it first started, with a handful of people. Prior to that, I was on another natural hair site that no longer exists.

I don't think one can assume that acceptance issues is what brings everybody to those sites. That is an overly broad statement. When I BCed in 2001, I had no acceptance issues. I didn't need anybody to tell me that my hair was beautiful and that I was worthy and beautiful. What I wanted was more information on how to take care of my hair, I wanted hairstyles and hair care ideas for natural hair. We all know the black magazines and salons do not really offer advice on how to care for and style your hair. They only teach you how to be weavelicious.

It was wonderful to be part of a community that celebrated natural kinky/nappy, as opposed to being part of a community that reviled it. Those sites were great for the growing natural hair community, as together, we explored myriad ways to care for our hair. We experimented a lot. Co-washing. Denman brushing. Banding. etc... I also watched things like wanting defined curls and pressing become non-PC. I don't post there much anymore.

Where I am now? I love my natural hair, but it does not define me. I think natural hair is beautiful, and I think that relaxed and pressed and texturized hair are also beautiful. I could slap a perm now if I so desire. I refuse to be defined by something that's growing out of my scalp.

 

[Enchantmt]

Slightly OT but speaking of curses in this thread:

Has anyone heard that white skin only came about because of leprosy and this is the basis of the white race?

I heard this as a little girl and I was like "WTF. People cannot be serious." Does anyone actually believe there is any validity to this? I just read this again now on a site where someone says "The Bible says all white people are lepers, having leprosy, and you are unclean." If you think this is absurd, do you think it's just as absurd for someone to believe that kinky hair is the way it is because of a curse? Or does a curse (whether hair or skin) only apply to one race? Or could every race have some type of curse? Or does no race have ANY curse?

I've never heard this. They may have it confused with Moses and his sister Miriam. Moses took a cush-ite (forum censors wont let me spell the word right) wife (read: black woman) and his sister had a problem with it. Seeing as Miriam's punishment from God was to turn her skin white as snow for several days, I'm assuming that she took issue because she was black (and that God has a sense of humor), although the bible doesnt state what the specific reason was that Miriam didnt like her.

 

[Bunny77]

cool sistah! you are not going to play into this, right? you understand about "hair splitting" right????? ("many" versus "all" and all that)....cool...I got ya back!!! (hug)

Yeah... I'm gonna let it go... gotta breathe....

But thanks for the support!

 

[Hidden_Angel]

Slightly OT but speaking of curses in this thread:

Has anyone heard that white skin only came about because of leprosy and this is the basis of the white race?

I heard this as a little girl and I was like "WTF. People cannot be serious." Does anyone actually believe there is any validity to this? I just read this again now on a site where someone says "The Bible says all white people are lepers, having leprosy, and you are unclean." If you think this is absurd, do you think it's just as absurd for someone to believe that kinky hair is the way it is because of a curse? Or does a curse (whether hair or skin) only apply to one race? Or could every race have some type of curse? Or does no race have ANY curse?

Yep i heared it and have to agree with it.. just an oppion though...

 

[Enchantmt]

Before things get heated let me redirect everyones attention to the following thread:

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=99040


Good discussion so far ladies! Let's keep the dialogue going!!

 

[JustKiya]

Slightly OT but speaking of curses in this thread:

Has anyone heard that white skin only came about because of leprosy and this is the basis of the white race?

I heard this as a little girl and I was like "WTF. People cannot be serious." Does anyone actually believe there is any validity to this? I just read this again now on a site where someone says "The Bible says all white people are lepers, having leprosy, and you are unclean." If you think this is absurd, do you think it's just as absurd for someone to believe that kinky hair is the way it is because of a curse? Or does a curse (whether hair or skin) only apply to one race? Or could every race have some type of curse? Or does no race have ANY curse?

I've heard that - and I thought it was bullcrap then, and I think it's bullcrap now. And of course, ya'll know how I feel about the idea that kinky hair is a curse.

<snip>
why is it some peopole think other races look down on black hair so if we dont like it they wont. this is simply bs. other races accept blacks for who they are. its blacks who blow the differences out of the water and continually segregate based on superficial issues. <snip>

HELLO!!! See - this, RIGHT here - is what I'm talking about. It seems like every conversation about black folx hair, AMONG black people, always ends up talking bout white folx/other races.

Nah, nah. We need to be honest, and we need to own up, and maybe EVERY SINGLE SISTER here relaxes her hair because she prefers the ease of management - but we ALL know that a LOT of black folx do NOT perm their hair because 'it's easier' to manage. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they don't KNOW any better. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they believe they don't HAVE any other 'acceptable' choice if they want a man/job/to be admired as beautiful. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they think their hair is wrong/ugly/shameful.
And can't NOBODY here say that isn't true. And I can't say that EVERY woman who perms believes this - but I'd betcha in a random poll of random black women (not the cream of the crop who hang out and educate themselves on hair boards) there would be more women who HONESTLY dislike their NATURAL hair and perm to hide the shame of not being born with straight hair than there are women who perm 'just to make it easier to 'manage'.

And what's up with the whole easier to manage thing? I honestly think that a LOT of that is ignorance - and I can speak on that from my OWN personal story. Back in 2000, I had just come out of two years worth of braids - because I had permed my hair, realized that my hair HATED being straight, and was transitioning (without even knowing what transitioning was).
I started wearing two strand twists - and can I tell you, I HATED dealing with my hair. I DREADED dealing with my hair. It would literally take me EIGHT HOURS to untwist, detangle and wash my hair - and it WASN'T that long - MAYBE neck length?

EIGHT HOURS ya'll - what woman in her right MIND wants to spend that much time on her hair every week? So - I got dreadlocks - cuz I mean, what ELSE can you do with natural hair???
I took my locs out in May 06, and I took the time to LEARN about my hair. I took the time to READ the ingredients of the stuff that I put on my hair. I took the time to UNDERSTAND my hairs needs AND it's issues.

And you know what? I don't know WHAT the hell I was doing wrong with my hair back in 2000. My hair is an entirely DIFFERENT animal than it was then - and I haven't had any babies that might account for a hormonal difference in my hair - so what's REALLY changed?

ME. I now KNOW how to take care of my hair - and I went from a woman who BELIEVED that her hair was SO unmanagable that my ONLY choices were dreadlocks or a perm, to one who WANTS to grow 2 FEET worth of this fragile, kinky, nappy, glorious hair.

And we can change this in ONE generation. Teach your daughters/nieces/sisters/cousins HOW to take care of their natural hair - slowly, gently, lovingly. Stop calling them tenderheaded because you are HURTING them ripping a narrowtooth comb through dry hair. Stop comparing your babies to babies of other races and complaining bout how OUR hair isn't like THEIR hair. In fact - point out how them OTHER children can't do ANYTHING with their hair BUT wear it straight, while WE can rock every style under the sun - from TWA to asslength HAIR - not a weave!

Teach your sons/nephews/brothers/cousins that black women with natural hair is GORGEOUS. Teach that that black women with SHORT natural hair ain't ALL gay. Don't LAUGH when they say that a women with short natural hair looks like a boy.

Go back BEFORE slavery and look at the Kings and Queens richer than ALL the Europeans wore their hair and the beauty of it. Check out some of the tribes that are STILL celebratining and wearing their natural hair.

Make it a REAL choice - a choice to go straight or a choice to stay nappy based on what YOU want - not what some random dude you ain't even MET yet might want. Not based on what some narrowminded boss at a job might want. Not based on some antiquated idea of 'appropiate' hair.

We've been dealing with this for TOO DAMN LONG. And avoiding the topic - the roots - of things - in ourselves, in our men, in our children - ain't gon encourage JACKALL to change.

Be loved, ya'll.

 

[Hidden_Angel]

Before things get heated let me redirect everyones attention to the following thread:

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=99040


Good discussion so far ladies! Let's keep the dialogue going!!

Yes i sooo agree...

 

[Enchantmt]

nappywomyn, I think you and bunny are my two favorite people today. Well said!!!

 

[Bunny77]

Hahaha@all.

I am glad that you said many. If you know several black women who do have these problems, then you can say many. Many is different from MOST and ALL. You can say that MOST people are relaxed based on a particular area or most people are natural based on a particular area because this is something we can see and measure. But we don't really know what's going on in MOST people's heads. Human thought processes are really more complex than just one simple issue a lot of the time. I'm not having tunnel vision I'm just being real. I think if we could REALLY see what was going on inside a lot of people's heads, we'd be very shocked.

Also, how do you feel about this statement there?

"We don't debate the wonders of relaxing and we don't talk about the benefits of relaxing on Nappturality because frankly, there aren't any benefits to using that chemical."

I'm an active member of three hair sites... this one, Nappturality and Naturallycurly. I get different information and fellowship from all three and I like them all... and I think there's a place for all of them.

I like this site because I am someone who loves long hair and I like being on a site in which that goal is promoted. I like seeing pictures of long hair too... makes me happy to see black women defying a conventional idea that our hair can't grow.

I like Naturallycurly because my hair is curlier than it is kinky (although some white folks would probably say otherwise) and I like getting information on enhancing my curls and using products specifically designed to keep curls looking curls as great as possible.

I like Nappturality because it's nice to see black women who choose to wear their hair natural have a place in which they can freely discuss their hair and their choice without any pressure to change it. Now, I know on LHCF, there is no pressure for anyone to change their hair, but most hair boards geared toward black women do have that vibe. It's one thing if a black woman wants to relax on her own, but if she wants to stay natural and is having trouble, it's good that Nappturality encourages her to stay natural instead of posting threads saying, "Get a perm."

What's my point? My point is that Nappturality's mission statement doesn't bother me at all because the founder doesn't believe that chemicals are necessary. She has every right to think that, and shape her board's mission that way, just like LHCF has the right to focus on long hair (Nappturality doesn't) and NC can promote curls (Nappturality doesn't).

Women who are natural and want to stay that way usually don't think there are benefits to using a chemical... for themselves. I think that's all that statement is saying, not making a generalization of all people.

I do think you should check out the site and read some of the threads to see how much the hair thing has affected some women though... I mean, even I was surprised after reading Nappturality to see how deep it was for some people. They have told some stories about their treatment in society that have made my mouth drop. It's just interesting to read.

Oh and as for the leprosy thing... I've never heard that. The only supposed racial curse I've heard of from the Bible is the curse on Ham for not covering up his father Noah when he was naked and drunk. Supposedly Ham was black and that's why "blacks" were cursed. Of course, the only people I hear making this argument are racists, so go figure.

 

[Hidden_Angel]

I've heard that - and I thought it was bullcrap then, and I think it's bullcrap now. And of course, ya'll know how I feel about the idea that kinky hair is a curse.



HELLO!!! See - this, RIGHT here - is what I'm talking about. It seems like every conversation about black folx hair, AMONG black people, always ends up talking bout white folx/other races.

Nah, nah. We need to be honest, and we need to own up, and maybe EVERY SINGLE SISTER here relaxes her hair because she prefers the ease of management - but we ALL know that a LOT of black folx do NOT perm their hair because 'it's easier' to manage. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they don't KNOW any better. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they believe they don't HAVE any other 'acceptable' choice if they want a man/job/to be admired as beautiful. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they think their hair is wrong/ugly/shameful.
And can't NOBODY here say that isn't true. And I can't say that EVERY woman who perms believes this - but I'd betcha in a random poll of random black women (not the cream of the crop who hang out and educate themselves on hair boards) there would be more women who HONESTLY dislike their NATURAL hair and perm to hide the shame of not being born with straight hair than there are women who perm 'just to make it easier to 'manage'.

And what's up with the whole easier to manage thing? I honestly think that a LOT of that is ignorance - and I can speak on that from my OWN personal story. Back in 2000, I had just come out of two years worth of braids - because I had permed my hair, realized that my hair HATED being straight, and was transitioning (without even knowing what transitioning was).
I started wearing two strand twists - and can I tell you, I HATED dealing with my hair. I DREADED dealing with my hair. It would literally take me EIGHT HOURS to untwist, detangle and wash my hair - and it WASN'T that long - MAYBE neck length?

EIGHT HOURS ya'll - what woman in her right MIND wants to spend that much time on her hair every week? So - I got dreadlocks - cuz I mean, what ELSE can you do with natural hair???
I took my locs out in May 06, and I took the time to LEARN about my hair. I took the time to READ the ingredients of the stuff that I put on my hair. I took the time to UNDERSTAND my hairs needs AND it's issues.

And you know what? I don't know WHAT the hell I was doing wrong with my hair back in 2000. My hair is an entirely DIFFERENT animal than it was then - and I haven't had any babies that might account for a hormonal difference in my hair - so what's REALLY changed?

ME. I now KNOW how to take care of my hair - and I went from a woman who BELIEVED that her hair was SO unmanagable that my ONLY choices were dreadlocks or a perm, to one who WANTS to grow 2 FEET worth of this fragile, kinky, nappy, glorious hair.

And we can change this in ONE generation. Teach your daughters/nieces/sisters/cousins HOW to take care of their natural hair - slowly, gently, lovingly. Stop calling them tenderheaded because you are HURTING them ripping a narrowtooth comb through dry hair. Stop comparing your babies to babies of other races and complaining bout how OUR hair isn't like THEIR hair. In fact - point out how them OTHER children can't do ANYTHING with their hair BUT wear it straight, while WE can rock every style under the sun - from TWA to asslength HAIR - not a weave!

Teach your sons/nephews/brothers/cousins that black women with natural hair is GORGEOUS. Teach that that black women with SHORT natural hair ain't ALL gay. Don't LAUGH when they say that a women with short natural hair looks like a boy.

Go back BEFORE slavery and look at the Kings and Queens richer than ALL the Europeans wore their hair and the beauty of it. Check out some of the tribes that are STILL celebratining and wearing their natural hair.

Make it a REAL choice - a choice to go straight or a choice to stay nappy based on what YOU want - not what some random dude you ain't even MET yet might want. Not based on what some narrowminded boss at a job might want. Not based on some antiquated idea of 'appropiate' hair.

We've been dealing with this for TOO DAMN LONG. And avoiding the topic - the roots - of things - in ourselves, in our men, in our children - ain't gon encourage JACKALL to change.

Be loved, ya'll.

OMG so well said.. WELL SAID! I LOVE IT!

 

[Enchantmt]

The only supposed racial curse I've heard of from the Bible is the curse on Ham for not covering up his father Noah when he was naked and drunk. Supposedly Ham was black and that's why "blacks" were cursed. Of course, the only people I hear making this argument are racists, so go figure.

Just to clarify for folx who may be reading but not commenting, that curse was used erroneously to keep blacks in slavery. The curse was given and fulfilled in biblical times.

 

[Bunny77]

I would like to say thank you so much to all who support me and understand where I am coming from.

For those who do not. I still thank you for your responses. It is all still helpful info to me. I really do not see it as casting stones at me, but only trying to help me see how you view it.

I did not mean for it to come across as a curse from God but more as to say I do not think God's plan for us orginally was for our hair to be this fragile.

I have learned so much from all of the different responses on here, from climate, culture, scriptures, documents, etc... I has opened my mind to really be able to heal. Thanks you all. I needed it.

One day I will be happy to report that I truly and honestly love my hair.

You're gonna be fine.

I know this sounds really silly, but this is what therapists suggest... the minute you start having a negative thought about your hair, think of something positive, EVEN IF you don't believe it yet or aren't convinced that it's true.

So if your hair is hard to do one day and you start thinking, "I hate this hair!" instead, say, "Okay, maybe I need to try something different because my hair shouldn't be hard to do."

If you are questioning God about why our hair is the way it is, flip it and say, "You know, our hair really is versatile. I saw a sista with long healthy hair relaxed today on LHCF and another with a big ole puff that looked so thick and strong. Our hair is great!"

And we won't ever know in this life what God's plan was for our hair, but since this is what we have now, let's embrace it. Or at least make peace with it... cause as JewelleNY said, maybe you'll get to heaven and see Jesus with a big ole fro. (Or at least some curls!)

Good luck to ya.

 

[Poobity]

HELLO!!! See - this, RIGHT here - is what I'm talking about. It seems like every conversation about black folx hair, AMONG black people, always ends up talking bout white folx/other races.

Nah, nah. We need to be honest, and we need to own up, and maybe EVERY SINGLE SISTER here relaxes her hair because she prefers the ease of management - but we ALL know that a LOT of black folx do NOT perm their hair because 'it's easier' to manage. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they don't KNOW any better. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they believe they don't HAVE any other 'acceptable' choice if they want a man/job/to be admired as beautiful. A LOT of black women perm their hair because they think their hair is wrong/ugly/shameful.
And can't NOBODY here say that isn't true. And I can't say that EVERY woman who perms believes this - but I'd betcha in a random poll of random black women (not the cream of the crop who hang out and educate themselves on hair boards) there would be more women who HONESTLY dislike their NATURAL hair and perm to hide the shame of not being born with straight hair than there are women who perm 'just to make it easier to 'manage'.

And what's up with the whole easier to manage thing? I honestly think that a LOT of that is ignorance - and I can speak on that from my OWN personal story. Back in 2000, I had just come out of two years worth of braids - because I had permed my hair, realized that my hair HATED being straight, and was transitioning (without even knowing what transitioning was).
I started wearing two strand twists - and can I tell you, I HATED dealing with my hair. I DREADED dealing with my hair. It would literally take me EIGHT HOURS to untwist, detangle and wash my hair - and it WASN'T that long - MAYBE neck length?

EIGHT HOURS ya'll - what woman in her right MIND wants to spend that much time on her hair every week? So - I got dreadlocks - cuz I mean, what ELSE can you do with natural hair???
I took my locs out in May 06, and I took the time to LEARN about my hair. I took the time to READ the ingredients of the stuff that I put on my hair. I took the time to UNDERSTAND my hairs needs AND it's issues.

And you know what? I don't know WHAT the hell I was doing wrong with my hair back in 2000. My hair is an entirely DIFFERENT animal than it was then - and I haven't had any babies that might account for a hormonal difference in my hair - so what's REALLY changed?

ME. I now KNOW how to take care of my hair - and I went from a woman who BELIEVED that her hair was SO unmanagable that my ONLY choices were dreadlocks or a perm, to one who WANTS to grow 2 FEET worth of this fragile, kinky, nappy, glorious hair.

And we can change this in ONE generation. Teach your daughters/nieces/sisters/cousins HOW to take care of their natural hair - slowly, gently, lovingly. Stop calling them tenderheaded because you are HURTING them ripping a narrowtooth comb through dry hair. Stop comparing your babies to babies of other races and complaining bout how OUR hair isn't like THEIR hair. In fact - point out how them OTHER children can't do ANYTHING with their hair BUT wear it straight, while WE can rock every style under the sun - from TWA to asslength HAIR - not a weave!

Teach your sons/nephews/brothers/cousins that black women with natural hair is GORGEOUS. Teach that that black women with SHORT natural hair ain't ALL gay. Don't LAUGH when they say that a women with short natural hair looks like a boy.

Go back BEFORE slavery and look at the Kings and Queens richer than ALL the Europeans wore their hair and the beauty of it. Check out some of the tribes that are STILL celebratining and wearing their natural hair.

Make it a REAL choice - a choice to go straight or a choice to stay nappy based on what YOU want - not what some random dude you ain't even MET yet might want. Not based on what some narrowminded boss at a job might want. Not based on some antiquated idea of 'appropiate' hair.

We've been dealing with this for TOO DAMN LONG. And avoiding the topic - the roots - of things - in ourselves, in our men, in our children - ain't gon encourage JACKALL to change.

Be loved, ya'll.

Wow....