Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[Sistaslick]

I have not read through all of the posts but AMEN to this!!!

Forget trying to be PC, I mean I love my curls and all cause they are beautiful but just for once I would like to do all that is mentioned in the above post without the huge hassle! And I'm sorry but even when my hair was all natural it was still hella difficult to deal with! Trying to get a comb thru my hair (even with conditioner and oils) was a one hour ordeal! Now thanks to my handy phytorelaxer , it takes considerably less time.

I know all races have their own little problems but are simple recreational things as much as a hassle for them? I know some of my white and asian friends who can frolick at the beach or the pool swimming, then spend the rest of the entire day out in the sun (no protection) and their hair will literally dry back to its normal position before the swim. You wouldn't even know they were at the beach cause sometimes we'll go out to eat right after our day of swimming and surfing, and their hair will look all normal and groomed and mine will be a complete departure from its previous state (and trust me its not a pretty sight).

I know this seems silly and trivial but I'm an active person and I yearn for such convenience, I am not afraid to say it!!!

In the name of all that is heavenly, holy, and black... you have officially been rebuked ma'dear.


j/k.

 

[Kalani]

*hoping that dtachi won't get rebuked in the name of blackness today*


girl you bold!

Yes, I'm aware I am bold and will likely be stoned and accused of hating myself for various reasons.

I say whatever to all of that! This PC business is exhausting I need to vent once and a while.

 

[pistachio]

I just read through the thread, but I kinda figured that there was an argument involved because it seems like threads only get this big when there's conflict. I'm not taking sides, but I can see where Navs may be aggrevated about people putting words in her mouth because not too long ago people were doing the same to me over a "misunderstanding" that involved hair, and the light and dark skin issue. That thread went from 12 to 35 pages in twenty minutes literally! Talk about blowing things out of proportion! But I wanna say Mahaliee(sp?) has some valid points too in this matter.

 

[Enchantmt]

Kally, I could direct you to some sites that focus on easier management of our hair if it is caused by tangling, or dryness or some other factor. PM me if you like. There is one thread that is about 150 pages long dedicated to it that I started some time ago. I will send that one to you by pm now.

I'd like that site too plz.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Sending you a pm Enchantment.

 

[Enchantmt]

Ok, it appears that some folx smell drama in the air and have come out to agitate and comment from the sideline. Going forward, if it doesnt add to the discussion, dont post it, as it will be removed.

For the second time, EVERYONE please refer to this thread:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=99040

If you cant respond in a civil manner, come back when you can or leave the thread permanently.

I was always told that profanity is a small mind trying to express itself, please dont prove that statement true. Please dont resort to pettiness. The ladies here are better than that.

Nav, it is true that YOU did not state that these things were made up, but one poster did allude to that, its possible with all the back and forth that it was mistaken for your comment.

LETS KEEP IT CIVIL AND GIVE EACH OTHER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT WE ARE NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ONE ANOTHER.

 

[Enchantmt]

LOL...not yet and honestly I'm hoping it wont come to that. However, if it does I will make sure to note those involved in the progressing things to that point.

 

[navsegda]

Ok, it appears that some folx smell drama in the air and have come out to agitate and comment from the sideline. Going forward, if it doesnt add to the discussion, dont post it, as it will be removed.

For the second time, EVERYONE please refer to this thread:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=99040

If you cant respond in a civil manner, come back when you can or leave the thread permanently.

I was always told that profanity is a small mind trying to express itself, please dont prove that statement true. Please dont resort to pettiness. The ladies here are better than that.

Nav, it is true that YOU did not state that these things were made up, but one poster did allude to that, its possible with all the back and forth that it was mistaken for your comment.

LETS KEEP IT CIVIL AND GIVE EACH OTHER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT WE ARE NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ONE ANOTHER.

Haha, I totally get you. Sorry for the swearing; I curse when I am angry (the majority of the time it's when I'm angry; but at times I have been known to curse in jest because I have a crude sense of humor) and I admit that it was rude. The cardiac surgeon who was my lab research mentor used to curse all the time, and I admit that it was DEFINITELY unsettling hearing some of the things he said lol, so sorry for subjecting anyone to that. I will definitely leave it out of my next replies. But hey, even Einstein cursed and he definitely wasn't a small mind. One thing I cannot stand is when someone voices that I think a certain way when I really don't and haven't said it at all. So next time, I hope if anyone is unsure about what I mean, they will ask me instead of making assumptions. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not, so if someone dislikes me for what I say, then fine, I'm not going to try to change your opinion, but please dislike me because you've gotten the record entirely straight LMFAO.

*sets out some cookies and milk in the thread and hopes we can all go back to having a nice discussion, even if we disagree*

 

[DragonPearl]

What I meant to get across in this whole matter is that none of us can say for certain why every black woman relaxes because we do not know every black woman and we cannot say that because some black women may relax or because some black women may feel uncomfortable with their hair for reason X, Y, or Z that it means that ALL black women in the same or similar situations feel the same way. We can read research and be told how several black women feel about the matter but for anyone to see a random relaxed person on the street for instance, and say, "Oh, she relaxes because she has self esteem issues with her natural hair" would be incorrect. This does not make the information you have obtained any less valid because it stills hold true for the people who have told you things and that you have read about, but it may not hold true for every relaxed person you come into contact with. Is this clearer? If it's not, please let me know so I can try to clarify.

I so agree with you.

Sure, there are hair issues in the Black community, but people can't make blanket judgements about why someone does something with their hair. I know I am guilty of doing this, for instance, if a woman always wear weaves and her hair never see the light of days (a la Mary J Blige), I will assume she hates her hair, but what do I know? Maybe for her, it's the easiest way to deal with her hair, letting a stylist put weaves in and not having to work on it being healthy.

It's no different from seeing an IR couple on the streets, and assuming that the Black person is with the non-Black person because they hate themselves, or that the non-Black person is with the Black person because they have jungle fever.

I wish blanket generalizations would stop, but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[navsegda]

Also, I feel that I personally need some wisdom from Mother Teresa (at least often attributed to her) in this thread so I am posting this (it may also help others in the face of adversity):


People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.
You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.

 

[Country gal]

I told myself to stay out of here but from reading both sides, this really appears to be the case to me.

Ok, I can't speak for everybody but lemme see if I have this straight. Navs, it kinda seems that your logic requires someone to explicitly voice their particular reasons for relaxing. And that reason only, is the final proof and/or truth for that person at that time. Only by that person admitting or voicing that particular reasoning can it be said that this reasoning is valid. From this standpoint, the individual herself is the final authority. The reasoning behind the actions are as concrete as the answer given. But here, the predisposing, enabling, and reinforcing factors that may be governing the behavior are essentially ignored. To me, this is a somewhat cosmetic or surface scratching approach. The problem with this is that if a person is unaware of those factors, they are missing a critical link needed to explain their behaviors, without it they cannot admit to anything. They can only admit what they "know" which can be flawed, lacking, or dicey if those factors are not included in the assessment. Or is it more of an "There's a history to this behavior/action, but I am separate from that history because I do it for x,y,z?"

It seems that Bunny and others are referring to the deeper social and psycological aspects of the debate-- the fact that many people are following a "social script" when they relax and may not truly be fully aware of the deeper social roots of their actions. In this case, many will not admit that their relaxing comes from something beyond them and their manageability issues simply because they are not aware of it. It is kind of hard to admit or come to terms with something that you aren't aware of. From this standpoint, the individual is inherently flawed and subject to the power of influence from the environment. In this case, a person may not be fully aware of the reasons for her actions. From this point of view, the meat of the issue is hardly manageability. This issue (and its ugly twin the skin color/tone issue) goes much deeper. To me, this approach is much deeper because it deals with the effects of socialization on the subconcious. It seems to say, "There's a history to this behavior, and though I do it for x,y,z I am still connected to that history because reason x,y, and z are by products of that history."

I don't know though. I guess it depends on if you want to see this as an individual issue or a community issue. :scratchch Let me get outta here I am confusing my own self.

Girl, thanks for the cliff notes. I swear I felt like I was in a psych class for a minute. The ladies were so deep and expressive in their responses. I have Adult ADHD, so anything pass two paragraphs or a long paragraph with 50 sentences is too much for my brain.

 

[Country gal]

Its that time of year again. We have to get the relaxed v. natural debates out of our system for the fiscal year.

Waiting for some light-skindeded/dark-skindeded OT threads to pop up

For the life of me, I can't understand it. There seems to be some underlying tension regarding the two hair styling options. People can agree to disagree and it would avoid these long threads. I wear my hair in it's natural state. My hair just thrives more without chemicals. I couldn't perm and color my hair without seeing some type of damages.

I see really healthy heads on the board from naturals and relaxed folks. I don't feel that perms are all bad just bad for me. The DC members have long, healthy permed hair. I also see the naturals representing too.

 

[Enchantmt]

Also, I feel that I personally need some wisdom from Mother Teresa (at least often attributed to her) in this thread so I am posting this (it may also help others in the face of adversity):


People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.
You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.

I've always liked that quote. Good post!!

 

[Bunny77]

For the life of me, I can't understand it. There seems to be some underlying tension regarding the two hair styling options. People can agree to disagree and it would avoid these long threads. I wear my hair in it's natural state. My hair just thrives more without chemicals. I couldn't perm and color my hair without seeing some type of damages.

I see really healthy heads on the board from naturals and relaxed folks. I don't feel that perms are all bad just bad for me. The DC members have long, healthy permed hair. I also see the naturals representing too.

See what happens when a bunch of women with a lot of degrees starting getting all deep and scientific?

I tell ya though, as confusing as it might get, I'd rather have a board with that type of discussion instead of some of the crap I see on a board like, say, the BET forums!

And I don't know, but I didn't think this thread was a relaxed vs. natural debate compared to others I've seen. For the most part, it seemed people were saying that we should get away from focusing on our hair being difficult or bad or whatever and work on maximizing what we can do with it instead of being concerned about what we can't do.

But maybe that was just me.

 

[patient1]

Nappywomyn,

I thank you for your post about the children. I do think we can change minds in ONE generation. I'd go further and say we can change our own minds within our lifetime.

Minds...not behavior.

I've yet to find the posts that equate natural hair with love of blackness or relaxed hair with a lack of pride.

I've yet to find the posts that equate natural hair to bringing one closer to the Most High.

What I have found are lots and lots of threads where we seek, on some level, to accept ourselves as we are and then go from there.

What I am also finding a lot of is projection. Words getting put into people's mouths, forced between the lines, mass esp, etc. because, in the end, much of what comes out of one's mouth is what's on one's MIND.

My bottom line is this, do the work that's necessary to change your mind about what is, right NOW, inherent to a lot of our heads. Relax it, press it, texturize it, lock it, weave it, shave it off, whatever.

The outside is rather inconsequential in the face of what's going on inside. I don't press or relax my children's hair. That's my choice. If another mother chooses to press or relax their child's hair, I'd hope they'd do it from a place of acceptance ("Let's do something different...) NOT correction(Let's fix this mess.").

As a woman, mother, lover, writer, artists, teacher, daughter with natural hair, it has NEVER been my goal that we'd be homogenous in the ways we wear our hair. I show appreciation for what looks attractive and healthy in my eyes. I've made a conscious choice to spend more time here than on np.com because I'm comfortable in my hair choice and wanted to commune with women of color regardless of what THEY chose. I didn't want the hair segregation 24-7. And I've met some wonderful women here that make me glad for having made the decision.

But the unwillingness to CHOOSE a different belief and really work at transforming the mind, it baffles me. You can like what you like and do what you do and still make room to embrace the differences.

It doesn't matter where it started...who got the ball-rolling...it's very clear who's at the controls now. So what are we gonna do with this power?

p1

 

[DragonPearl]

As a woman, mother, lover, writer, artists, teacher, daughter with natural hair, it has NEVER been my goal that we'd be homogenous in the ways we wear our hair. I show appreciation for what looks attractive and healthy in my eyes. I've made a conscious choice to spend more time here than on np.com because I'm comfortable in my hair choice and wanted to commune with women of color regardless of what THEY chose. I didn't want the hair segregation 24-7. And I've met some wonderful women here that make me glad for having made the decision.
p1

I appreciate what you said because this was precisely my reason for joining an integrated hair board. I too have met wonderful women here that I would not have met otherwise. One thing I learned through all the hair forums I have patronized is that how a woman wears her hair is not a very good indication of who she is or of any deeper qualities she may have.

 

[navsegda]

Nappywomyn,

I thank you for your post about the children. I do think we can change minds in ONE generation. I'd go further and say we can change our own minds within our lifetime.

Minds...not behavior.

I've yet to find the posts that equate natural hair with love of blackness or relaxed hair with a lack of pride.

I've yet to find the posts that equate natural hair to bringing one closer to the Most High.

What I have found are lots and lots of threads where we seek, on some level, to accept ourselves as we are and then go from there.

What I am also finding a lot of is projection. Words getting put into people's mouths, forced between the lines, mass esp, etc. because, in the end, much of what comes out of one's mouth is what's on one's MIND.

My bottom line is this, do the work that's necessary to change your mind about what is, right NOW, inherent to a lot of our heads. Relax it, press it, texturize it, lock it, weave it, shave it off, whatever.

The outside is rather inconsequential in the face of what's going on inside. I don't press or relax my children's hair. That's my choice. If another mother chooses to press or relax their child's hair, I'd hope they'd do it from a place of acceptance ("Let's do something different...) NOT correction(Let's fix this mess.").

As a woman, mother, lover, writer, artists, teacher, daughter with natural hair, it has NEVER been my goal that we'd be homogenous in the ways we wear our hair. I show appreciation for what looks attractive and healthy in my eyes. I've made a conscious choice to spend more time here than on np.com because I'm comfortable in my hair choice and wanted to commune with women of color regardless of what THEY chose. I didn't want the hair segregation 24-7. And I've met some wonderful women here that make me glad for having made the decision.

But the unwillingness to CHOOSE a different belief and really work at transforming the mind, it baffles me. You can like what you like and do what you do and still make room to embrace the differences.

It doesn't matter where it started...who got the ball-rolling...it's very clear who's at the controls now. So what are we gonna do with this power?

p1

Patient, I have not had a chance to tell you this before but I want to say it now. I love reading your posts because they are always very thought provoking. I think you have a lot of wisdom to offer and it definitely shows, regardless of what your opinion may or may not be on the matter.

 

[cocoberry10]

I have asked God more than once why did he make our hair like this. Then I realized that God is perfect, and he doesn't make any mistakes. First of all our hair was made for the climate that we are originally from ( Africa). I prayed that God would help me to accept my hair, and love it the way He loves it, and help me to take care of it. Our hair is what it is , Naturally Dry, and thus we have to keep it moisturized. I believe that you can have a simple regimen to grow your hair out, and that you don't have to use like 50 products. My regimen is simple....I suggest just praying for acceptance..because Our hair isn't going to change....lol

This is definitely the truth!

 

[Sistaslick]

Patient, I have not had a chance to tell you this before but I want to say it now. I love reading your posts because they are always very thought provoking. I think you have a lot of wisdom to offer and it definitely shows, regardless of what your opinion may or may not be on the matter.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. I stalk patient1 regularly. She's always thoughtful, passionate, and tactful. Plus she's the one who showed us that locs can be undone and worn free with hair and length intact. I sure learned something that day.

 

[patient1]

I appreciate what you said because this was precisely my reason for joining an integrated hair board. I too have met wonderful women here that I would not have met otherwise. One thing I learned through all the hair forums I have patronized is that how a woman wears her hair is not a very good indication of who she is or of any deeper qualities she may have.

Okay!!! I learned this very quickly after I went natural. I've run into some earthly demon men with gorgeous LOX. I've met nut jobs with perfect twas and lovely coils...If anyone doubts they need to join a few natural sites. Go to life management on np.com for starters....or do a search on Lauryn and Erykah.

eta: I was young and naive when I returned to my natural hair @19. I really thought, at first, that men with natural hair were somehow connected to me or something. You get dissed by a few of them or knocked to the ground as they stampede to the nearest non-Black and you wake up quick. As far as relaxed heads, are we really going to argue about the race pride of women like Oprah Winfrey or Sista Souljah? Does Lauryn no longer love us with her China bob wig?

We need to really release ourselves and one another from this mess. Today!

p1

 

[patient1]

Ahhhh, thank you Navsegda and Sistaslick!! That really means a lot.

p1

 

[atlien]

Hello. My name is Mango387. My hair was so rolled up on my little head that when I saw a Polaroid from my birth date I was like . I think it was not as wiry, but I have never seen a newborn with hair that actually looked kinky like mine did. My dad is the only one who refers to my newborn hair as curly and that is only because he loves me .

My niece was born with a head FULL of thick tightly packed coiled strands of hair. My little cousin hair was the same way. I have seen many babies in my family born with this type of hair. Their hair is very soft to the touch, but from a distance it looks like 3C-4A natural hair.

 

[DragonPearl]

Okay!!! I learned this very quickly after I went natural. I've run into some earthly demon men with gorgeous LOX. I've met nut jobs with perfect twas and lovely coils...If anyone doubts they need to join a few natural sites. Go to life management on np.com for starters....or do a search on Lauryn and Erykah.

eta: I was young and naive when I returned to my natural hair @19. I really thought, at first, that men with natural hair were somehow connected to me or something. You get dissed by a few of them or knocked to the ground as they stampede to the nearest non-Black and you wake up quick. As far as relaxed heads, are we really going to argue about the race pride of women like Oprah Winfrey or Sista Souljah? Does Lauryn no longer love us with her China bob wig?

We need to really release ourselves and one another from this mess. Today!

p1

Yes indeed.

 

[Enchantmt]

Agreed, agreed, agreed. I stalk patient1 regularly. She's always thoughtful, passionate, and tactful.

 

[Hidden_Angel]

412 posts?!

 

[Cayenne0622]

Please watch this clip. It breaks my heart. 50 years later...same results.
http://www.mediathatmattersfest.org/6/a_girl_like_me/


I'm scared to read this thread. When it first started, there was only one page and the tone was so mellow. Now its gotten huge and from the last page of posts I'm guessing some opinions got judgemental. When I have some time I plan to read the thread because it will be interesting to read so MANY varying opinions. I don't know about the whole idea of God giving blacks the thick, kinky, densely packed hair because of the climate in Africa. There may be no reason at all for it. Does God really need a reason? I guess I would expect that middle easterners (i.e. Iran, Iraq, Pakinstan, etc) would have the same type of hair because of the very hot climate as well. I dunno. erplexed

In the end, I hope all of this will result in us loving and respecting each other more. Not caring about what choices another black woman makes for her or her daughter's hair (as long as its healthy, well-groomed hair). As a community, we have to be more uplifting to each other.

 

[Country gal]

I don't judge a person by their hair. I judge them by what comes out of their mouths. When someone makes positive statements abouth their hair I assume they do have a strong sense of confidence in themselves and hair. When I hear folks constantly bad mouthing their hair, I think it is negative talk. Stinking thinking. The power is in the tongue.

I always grew up with a mother telling me how much she loved me and my hair. My hair could do things that her fine hair could not do. I learned to think that I had really nice hair. I usually don't complain about my hair unless I am just bored or PMSing. I never grew up thinking I hate my hair but love someone else's hair. My hair is what it is and I love it. I just wish more women felt as empowering as I do about their hair. I am not speaking of the board members but folks in my everyday life. I hear so many black women can't grow long hair. When really our hair grows all the time but some of us are not retaining it.

 

[JewelleNY]

I think this thread is great and a fresh of air Why people want to read a message board where everyone agrees is beyond me

I appreciate all of the responses as many of us have been at the same place as each other throughout our lives. I, too, wore the shirt on my head as a child to swing and flip I just recently stopped relaxing, I am just kind of tired of feeeling the need to burn my scalp for straight hair that is not growing out of my head and never will. It has taken me a long time to come to this place and this board has contributed tremendously to my decision. I don't know if I could have done it otherwise. And, I do have two Mizani relaxers sitting on my bathroom floor in case I change my mind

Like someone else said, I was always a rebellious child, challenging in my mind what I was told and what was my reality. I asked why the men watched sports while the women cooked on holidays? Why the white kids filled the advanced classes and minorities poured from the "slow" classes? I wondered why people go to church and shout, why do we have to wear clothes, why do parents spank and say that hitting is wrong, why do men have to be the head of the household, and on and on This is me, this is who I am, so naturally I have always wondered why do we put chemicals on our hair that burn and damage our hair? Why do we press our little's girls hair? Why is straight better? Why would we rather walk around with thin, crisp hair, than the beauty that God gave us?

My Mizani tubs still sit on the bathroom floor

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

I think this thread is great and a fresh of air Why people want to read a message board where everyone agrees is beyond me

I appreciate all of the responses as many of us have been at the same place as each other throughout our lives. I, too, wore the shirt on my head as a child to swing and flip I just recently stopped relaxing, I am just kind of tired of feeeling the need to burn my scalp for straight hair that is not growing out of my head and never will. It has taken me a long time to come to this place and this board has contributed tremendously to my decision. I don't know if I could have done it otherwise. And, I do have two Mizani relaxers sitting on my bathroom floor in case I change my mind

Like someone else said, I was always a rebellious child, challenging in my mind what I was told and what was my reality. I asked why the men watched sports while the women cooked on holidays? Why the white kids filled the advanced classes and minorities poured from the "slow" classes? I wondered why people go to church and shout, why do we have to wear clothes, why do parents spank and say that hitting is wrong, why do men have to be the head of the household, and on and on This is me, this is who I am, so naturally I have always wondered why do we put chemicals on our hair that burn and damage our hair? Why do we press our little's girls hair? Why is straight better? Why would we rather walk around with thin, crisp hair, than the beauty that God gave us?

My Mizani tubs still sit on the bathroom floor

Jewelle, the Mizani tub may still be in your home, but at least you are recognizing there IS something deeper to this hair thing. You are questioning your motives for relaxing and going natural. This is great and healthy and I applaud you for this.
Heck, there are times I consider getting another relaxer but then I am like, for what? To make my hair more so called 'manageable?' To be pampered? To have swanging hair that flows in the wind? To have more chemical burns all in the sake to get straight hair? Been there done that, got a t-shirt and everything. I think we as black people will always have remnants of issues we thought we dealt with a long time to creep back up, but that's just being a human.

 

[TwistNMx]

I am going to be real: I am frustrated with my hair because it is taking a lot of effort to grow out. I do sometime feel it isn't "fair" that other races can just have hair without all the extra stuff I have to do. I personally don't feel that I am forcing my hair to be something it doesn't want to be, but it is still taking some effort to grow it out. I definitely love my hair but fighting for length is hella frustrating.

I agree with everything you said....and dealt a bad hand...period!!!
And others won't admit it, but I'm not white-washing a thing here!