Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[StrawberryQueen]

OMG so well said.. WELL SAID! I LOVE IT!

She's on point, ain't she? Well said Nappywomyn!

 

[Bunny77]

So I decided to do some Google searching... here's a great blog article I found in which a black man said that his young daughter already began suffering from low self-esteem because of her black features... like her hair in particular.

Luckily, someone saved the day....

http://www.netweed.com/lyricalswords/2006/07/black-hair-matrix-how-jada-pinkett.html

The Black Hair Matrix: How Jada Pinkett-Smith Saved My Daughters Self Esteem


So, as many of you know I have a daughter and a son. My daughter, is quite beautiful, despite my influence on her looks.

Like most fathers I want my daughter to be a physically, mentally and spiritually secure woman. But I know the America works hard to break the psyche of the Black woman of America- on all fronts.

It begins with an indoctrination about what beauty is. The American media machine has Black women questioning their own beauty before they are even aware of whats happening...This really applies to all non-White females. But in no time America has Black women questioning the breadth and scope of their internal and external beauty.

My daughter, like many American girls is beaten over the head with the Disney propaganda (and other cartoons) that show all kinds of White women as royalty. But they are ALL White. Cinderella, the red head from the Mermaid joint- all that. But no Black women. Brandy does not count. They never use her in the Disney Pantheon of princess brides. Why is it Disney has never been able to show a beautiful young African princess?

Anyhoo, we normally have baby girl rockin' afro puffs (thanks Rage), or some braid pattern.

About 2 years ago, my wife, seeing Jada Pinkett-Smiths hair on The Matrix (as the character Niobi) did my daughters hair in the same fashion.

Everbody thought it was pretty lovely.

But this was BEFORE my daughter had been effected by the Disney Matrix of long flowing European hair values.

About 3 months ago ( 2 years afterthe first time moms did it), my wife did baby girls hair like that again.

Of course, she could not see her hair as it was being done. Once it was finished she raced back to look in the mirror.

She came out crying....So sad....Shes told my wife her hair was ugly....She almost acted as if my wife was trying to humiliate her by not giving her hair like the Little Mermaid. This was very tough to watch.

My wife and I were both shocked and hurt.

She reached at her hair to undo it and I told her not to. I told her it was beautiful and that Black women have different hair that is unique. I told her she was not supposed to look like Cinderella. That Black women wear their hair in all kinds of styles. None of this made an impact. She wanted out of that hair ASAP. Her brother told her she looked great (a hard feat. for any brother to do!!). Shes was not having it.

I got on the internet and I said "Do you know why I love seeing your hair like that?"

She shook her head in silence through the tears.

I said, "Because you look like that pretty lady from the Matrix."

Now, my son and baby girl LOVES him some Matrix. Although clearly neither of them get the plot, to watch people fly through the air and kick people in the chest makes for good film watching!!

The topic of what is and is not appropriate for kids to watch is another post...I'm bad about some of what I let them see...

Anyway as she cried with her head in her hands I was on Google looking for Matrix photos.

BAM!! Found Jada Pinkett-Smith strapped with gats looking all ladyfied and serious.

I sat her on my lap and I said "See baby, you are beautiful, like this lady in the Matrix. You are strong and smart and beautiful- like she is. So, when Mommy made your hair like this is was because you remind us of her....

All of a sudden you saw her face like, change on an molecular level. Her self confidence was at a new level. She got off my lap, went back to look at herself- and it was quiet back there.

I sat in silence totally excited, in hope of me making my point- but still scared.

Then I heard her going through her brothers stuff...Which is a family issues that she needs to chill on...But at this point no one had time to argue.

She came down the hall with a water gun taking the same pose a Niobi in the photo and said "FREEZE!! You are under arrest. This is the matrix!". We all laughed. She immediately began to chase her brother through the house.

Her smile was bright and full again. Her laughter was real. My baby girl was back. She was back because we live in an era where a Black woman can wear her hair in a way unique to her people and her style.

I just wanted to thank Jada Pinkett-Smith for saving my daughters self esteem. How many Black women in America never had a popular Black woman out there to raise their self esteem? How many women have fallen for the Black hair matrix? How many young Black girls destroyed themselves inside and out in pursuit of "the bluest eye"? All young minority women deserve to be internally enriched with images of beauty.

Nothing myself, or my wife might have said that day had the impact of my baby seeing Jada powerful and strong. So, thank you Jada. For real.

 

[Enchantmt]

Wow Bunny. Thanks for finding that. That is a great story. It reinforces the results of the doll experiments, children have these mindsets at very young ages, and it is a thought pattern they LEARNED from someone.

 

[navsegda]

Edit: I am cutting out some of what you have said because I have exceeded the character limit.

Doesn't seem fair to me... I not only have to be criticized for my choice (and natural women are going to get FAR more criticism than relaxed/pressed women -- I've never heard anyone telling a relaxed woman that she won't get a job/man/respect with her hair) but then I can't dare say anything "positive" about loving one's natural texture because then I'm not "accepting" their choice. Sounds like a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation to me...

As long as I'm not questioning one's blackness or criticizing the person, I don't see what's wrong with telling a frustrated black woman to start loving and accepting her hair (cause no matter how you choose to wear it, you have to accept it's advantages and limitations) and I will continue to do so IF we are having a discussion about hair. Being understanding and accepting of one's choice doesn't mean I have to hear whining and moaning all the darn time without saying something in response.

If someone is being negative to you, then you have every right to be pushy back. When I gave my examples of telling someone that they should love their hair yada yada and being insulting, I meant if you said it in a NEGATIVE manner when they had not provoked you yet. But if someone just simply makes a statement about not liking her texture and doesn't whine or alienate you because of your opinion, if you rudely tell her she has to love her hair, then you are certainly out of line.

Good example:

Girl: "Man, my natural hair is so difficult. I hate it."
You: "Girl, you should love your hair. It's beautiful. Have you tried X to make it more manageable?"

Bad example:

Girl: "Man, my natural hair is so difficult. I hate it."
You: "OMG, YOU SHOULD LOVE YOUR HAIR. WHAT GOD GAVE US IS BEAUTIFUL AND YOU NEED TO STOP CONFORMING TO WHITE BEAUTY STANDARDS. THIS IS SAD. YOU ARE REJECTING YOUR BLACKNESS."

Good example:

Girl: "Man, my natural hair is difficult. I hate it."
You: "Girl, you should love your hair. It's beautiful. Have you tried X to make it more manageable?"
Girl: "No, seriously I told you that I can't deal with this crap on my head. Don't you ever get tired of yours? I don't see how you can take it."
You: "No, I don't get tired of my natural texture because I have learned to work with it. There are really some great products that may help."
Girl: "Well, I'm sure there ain't no product out there to help me deal with this mess. You may have that good hair so that's probably why it works for you. Besides, don't you ever wanna see how your hair looks straight? I think it looks best that way"
You: "I don't freaking have that 'good' hair and you should not try to force your beauty standards on me. You could really manage your hair if you actually tried instead of sitting there whining about how your hair is difficult. It is difficult because you make it that way and you refuse to listen. Just because my hair is not freaking straight does not mean it does not look good. I think my style looks best because I am embracing my black beauty."

In the last one, you had every right to be angry because she is not only whining but trying to force her opinion on you.

There is a right and a wrong way to go about things. Sometimes people automatically get offended and lash out when there was no need for it in the first place. Not everything is a threat or attack but sometimes there is blatant rudeness and I do not fault you for responding accordingly.

It may not be the majority, but it is a LOT of people. I grew up in a large majority black city and talk about hair texture and skin color happened ALL THE DANGON TIME, so that's how most of us on this board "know" what A LOT of people are thinking.

Now, I don't know where you grew up and maybe you didn't have this experience... if so, then great... but I guess what is kinda sorta bugging me about these comments is that they seem to be ignoring a reality that isn't exactly hard to put a finger on. If you were born and raised in the USA and spent a lot of time around black people, then you had to have heard negative talk about hair... if not your own hair, other people's hair. And skin color as well. I don't even think you can call it an assumption because it is as common as the sun rising and setting every day in the lives of most people who grew up in majority black areas in the USA. Can I say it's a majority? No. Can I say it's a lot? Heck yeah, and I'll say it all day long!

Most of my life, I grew up around a lot of black people even though my school was majority white (my neighborhood and the surrounding ones were all black). I grew up in the South of course. Yeah, I heard negative talk about hair (sometimes my own) by some of those black people. I would hear comments like "Girl, your hair is nappy," or "Girl, my hair is nappy," and then if the comments were directed toward you they would say they were making a simple observation and they didn't mean to be insulting. Now can I say that they personally had self esteem problems and this is why they said it? No. They may have had the problem or they may just have thought they weren't being insulting, I do not know for certain. But most of the time, the ones who relaxed were making fun of white people or their hair in some way and if someone who was still natural asked them if they were trying to be white, they'd go off saying all these crazy, negative things about white people. Odd, I grew up around several black people who didn't seem to like whites and voiced their opinion as such, but they relaxed. Now does this mean they were REALLY envious deep down of white hair? Maybe. Maybe not. I cannot say for sure that this was some type of underlying mechanism of self-hatred or projection because they seemed to love the way they could style their hair but didn't think they were being like whites at all. If I asked some of them why they were relaxed, they would go on and on about how nice their hair looked and how they could do all these different styles because of it and having their hair straight (they would go through all the black hair magazines and pick out the latest one). Lots of them also talked about how they could wash their hair and then it wouldn't hurt trying to comb it afterwards.

The thing I hate the most is when someone tries to definitely guess WITHOUT BEING TOLD what is going on inside someone else's head. Now, if you were around all these women and they specifically told you or you overhead them saying things about their hair, then you can you know a lot of people who have problems with black hair. However, to say something is a reality when you have no proof otherwise based on your own assumptions is what causes problems. No one likes being told what they think especially if you are wayyyyyyy off the mark.

Again, if you grew up differently, then I understand why you feel the way you do. But if you grew up in a place like Detroit, where even today I can go for days without seeing a natural-haired black woman in a city of 900,000 people (and 70% of those are black), or seeing beauty salons on every corner in every neighborhood and yet so far I have only found TWO that can do natural hair outside of braids....then you wouldn't say it's an assumption...

By the way, I am interested in knowing your background, because maybe I could understand more why you believe the way you do.

What do you mean understand why I believe the way I do? What are you thinking I believe? I do not believe that this isn't a problem for some people, I believe in certainty. I do not believe in broad generalizations made about what black people may or may not think about their hair just because they wear their hair a certain way unless of course you have heard many of them voice their own opinions about why they relax or why they don't like their natural texture (if of course they tell you they do not). Lots of people make assumptions but if you can't back them up, it makes you look like a fool. You, on the other hand, seem to have actually HEARD a lot of black people voice disgust over their hair and the reasons why, so you have more ground to stand on than someone who for instance sees that the majority of women in an area relaxes their hair and thus makes the assumption also that all these women have self-esteem problems and are ashamed of their true black heritage as a result.

So long story short: I agree there is a problem for several people. What I don't agree with is that several people want to diagnose the root of the problem as X, Y, or Z with no proof. Now we can guess and speculate about what is the exact reason(s) for the root of the problem all we want, but unless someone tells us otherwise or we overhear it, then we really cannot jump to unfounded conclusions about why people actually do the things they do.

 

[navsegda]

Where I am now? I love my natural hair, but it does not define me. I think natural hair is beautiful, and I think that relaxed and pressed and texturized hair are also beautiful. I could slap a perm now if I so desire. I refuse to be defined by something that's growing out of my scalp.

This statement is beautiful.

 

[sweetwhispers]

Hey sweetwhispers the thing is some women/people really do share these feelings. Disturbing, bonker or whatever one may think.

I think they need to talk and have discussions about it even if we don't see, feel or share their feelings on their perceived hair challenges.

Stylish/attractive hair really can make a woman feel fierce on her worst day but the true fierceness starts within. Short, long, straight, wavy or nappy like my kunta kente bush you gotta feel good about self first and foremost. Hell I could imagine what a cancer victim goes through during chemo no matter how high the self esteem.

To LocksofLuv with all respect too- Whatever
Firecracker this thread has really opened my eyes. I will pray for many people on this thread.

 

[kally]

Wow. Bunny that is powerful and it is extremely important that a AA father tell his daughter that she is beautiful. As we all know what your parents say to you have a powerful impact with how you view yourself and gives you strength to face the world.

I read that bawling because I understand what that little girl went through. I use to run thru the house with shirts on my head draping it like it was hair when I was little.My family still teases me about it to this day. I admit I was one of those little girls who only wanted white dolls, because of the hair. I saw no powerful black women grewing up that was glorified.

Not only do mother have to instill this knowledge into their daughters, It is even more important that a father does it. I am sorry many women care how men view them. And the father is the first one they who they really want to please.

 

[chocolatesis]

I think this is a good hair discussion topic and I hope others chime in.

I was watching the discovery channel one day and it was talking about how different "races" came about. Basicly life began in Africa, but diff. people migrated to diff. areas which had some effect on our features.

It was said in the program ,that due to the climate (hot and humid) of Africa, that Africans weren't really 'designed' to have long hair. That our hair was genetically short to keep us cool and that the coils/napps kept the sun from burning our skin on top of our heads. And white people have long hair to protect them from the cold/wind and other elements from habitating on the Northern hemisphere. And so on and so on...

Don't know how true it is. But it makes (sort of) sense to me.

But often I find myself pondering like you. Like what was GOD's intention when he created diff. ethnic 'features. Anyways, this is a good topic.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who believes this. I've always wondered why our hair is so different from everyone else's. I came to the realization that it had to be a result of the climate Africans lived in. I know that our bodies are designed to constantly try to adapt to our environment, in other words make us more comfortable in our environment. But then I was stumped because other dark skinned people, like East Indians, don't have coily hair.
Then I realized that what makes our hair coily, or different from other hair types, is it's level of moisture. The hair becomes coily because it's dry, and the level of dryness determines how loose the coil/curl is. The body produces less moisture in the hair because the climate in most places in Africa is so humid, or wet, so the body produces less moisture as a way of keeping us comfortable in that climate. In general, Africans in East Africa (Ethiopia, Somalia), where the climate is not so humid, have hair that is not quite as dry as that of west Africans, where the climate is more humid.

I think the only reason we have to "struggle" so much with out hair is because we for most part tend to try to manipulate our hair into styles that are not really practical for our texture. As someone previously posted, imagine the "struggle" women with straight hair would go through trying to style their hair in an afro everyday. That being said, I don't think anything is wrong with trying to manipulate your hair into a style that's not practical for your hair texture, you just have to remember that it won't be easy. And I don't think that we should beat ourselves up over wanting to grow our hair long. People all over the world have been manipulating their bodies to get a desired result since the beginning of time. In China, they used to bind little girls' feet so they wouldn't grow large and the women would have small, feminine feet. At least with us, it's just hair.

Sorry this is so long--I just had to get it all out!

 

[kally]

For a long time, I never wanted a daughter, because I did not want to pass the hair trait on to her.

 

[navsegda]

I use to run thru the house with shirts on my head draping it like it was hair when I was little.My family still teases me about it to this day. I admit I was one of those little girls who only wanted white dolls, because of the hair. I saw no powerful black women grewing up that was glorified.

I did this too when I was really little: but the reason why is because both my mother and grandmother (her mother) had waist length gorgeous hair and I admired and looked up to them. I saw that as a beauty that I wanted to have for myself and my hair didn't start getting longer until I was a little older. I wanted to be like them, but I didn't cry because my hair wasn't long. The only time I cried is when I was getting my hair washed and detangled hahaha. I also wanted to wear lipstick and have boobs because the women in my family did LOL. I think I wanted to be grown way too fast. I once told the UPS man that I was a grown woman (and I had just turned 5).

About the dolls, I didn't care about color as long as she was pretty. I had black and white dolls and I loved doing their hair accordingly. Do you remember those Barbie styling heads? I would take the white and black ones to my sink and "wash" their hair and then style it afterwards.

 

[Bunny77]

What do you mean understand why I believe the way I do? What are you thinking I believe? I do not believe that this isn't a problem for some people, I believe in certainty. I do not believe in broad generalizations made about what black people may or may not think about their hair just because they wear their hair a certain way unless of course you have heard many of them voice their own opinions about why they relax or why they don't like their natural texture (if of course they tell you they do not). Lots of people make assumptions but if you can't back them up, it makes you look like a fool. You, on the other hand, seem to have actually HEARD a lot of black people voice disgust over their hair and the reasons why, so you have more ground to stand on than someone who for instance sees that the majority of women in an area relaxes their hair and thus makes the assumption also that all these women have self-esteem problems and are ashamed of their true black heritage as a result.

So long story short: I agree there is a problem for several people. What I don't agree with is that several people want to diagnose the root of the problem as X, Y, or Z with no proof. Now we can guess and speculate about what is the exact reason(s) for the root of the problem all we want, but unless someone tells us otherwise or we overhear it, then we really cannot jump to unfounded conclusions about why people actually do the things they do.

Okay, I understand what you're getting at. The reason I seemed a little puzzled about some of your statements is because you seemed to express that you'd never heard any black woman make a negative statement about her hair, which I do find hard to believe (just in general) because they seem to be everywhere I look. And even if I haven't heard them firsthand, any article I read about black women and beauty always mentions something about how many black women learned as young girls that their hair was "bad."

Now, about the folks you mentioned who said, "Girl, my/your hair is nappy..." Of course I wasn't there and don't know where that thought was coming from, but usually, when I hear black folks saying that, it's not positive at all. The only positive place I've heard the word nappy is on Nappturality or at natural hair gatherings. So right there, that tells me though that folks have negative beliefs about their hair or about others' hair -- and sure, they have the right to feel that way, but again, back to the initial point, why DO they feel that way?

And regarding self-esteem... I don't think you have to be close to depression or suicide about your hair for there to be an issue. And maybe this is where you and I simply have different fundamental beliefs and we'll just agree to disagree.... I think that when the majority of people in a certain group dislike something that is a normal part of them, then there is a problem and a sign of something deeper. I personally don't think that can be denied by saying, "We don't know what's going on in their heads," because that's a whole lot of black heads that seem to have the same dislike for their hair.

It doesn't mean they're ashamed to be black and it doesn't mean they hate their hair... but more often than not, it does mean that they have internalized that their hair leaves something to be desired.

Growing up, I didn't hear bad things about my hair in my own household and I never grew up hating my natural hair or even disliking it. Like you, I liked natural hair on other people. But, based on the hair care I had as a child and the look I saw on other people, I grew to believe that the best way to have one's hair was straight, unless you were some super-duper black militant (which I'm not.)

An ex-boyfriend of mine said once that I should go natural. I laughed and said that it just wouldn't work, but thanks for the suggestion. He said that he thought I'd look cute that way... again, I laughed and said no thanks and that he just didn't know how hard it would be for me to do my hair and keep it from frizzing up and looking nice.

The thing is, what did I even know about natural hair? Nothing! So how could I already say that it wasn't an option if I hadn't gotten messages throughout my life that it wasn't something that "normal" black women did?

Yet I was always mad at my hair because it never looked how I wanted it to look and it broke off and all of that... but still, that was better in my mind than at least trying the natural option.

So no, I never had low self-esteem based on my hair, but I did think that natural really wasn't acceptable for anyone but those militant types, as I mentioned. I don't think that type of thinking is cool... and I do think that way too many black women DO feel this way, even if they have high self-esteem... thus the "Girl, your hair/my hair is so nappppppppppppy," comments.

Last thing... if you Google "black women" and "hair," you will get 1,160,000 hits. That's a lot of hits for such a specialized topic, which tells me something right there. There are academic papers, books, websites and all sorts of stuff on this topic... which again, tells you something if you read between the lines.

So with allllll of that said.... I don't think anyone is in danger of looking like a fool with an assumption or is off on our speculation about many black women's thinking about hair... the proof is right there in front of our eyes if we really want to see it. Heck, it's smacking us in the face all the time... there's really not much "guessing" to be done about how many black women feel. I also don't think this issue is a case of making broad generalizations either.

I know you may disagree and that's fine, but that's my belief (which I think is a well-founded and documented one) and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Bunny77]

Last article, and then I'm off to lunch! Gonna get me some Indian food... maybe then I'll end up with Indian hair! (just kidding, just kidding!!! )

Oh, and as someone mentioned, I loved playing with Barbie dolls. I had white and black ones and luckily, I liked them all. I wanted to have a United Nations Barbie family so one day I'd ask for a black Barbie, another day a white Barbie and I even had a Japanese Barbie... as long as parents insist that all are beautiful, then I think playing with non-black dolls is fine. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

Been great chatting with all of you!

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/topics/april04/story10.htm


Beauty lives across a wide spectrum
By KELLY STARLING-LYONS, Raleigh News & Observer

-->
In some ways, it was silly what the girl said. But years later, Angela Coleman still remembers pieces of the insult her hair inspired one day.
"It was something about peas and carrots and referred to my kitchen," she said.
It sounds like a senseless remark. But even as a child, Coleman knew different. The term "kitchen" was said to ridicule the thick curls at the nape of her neck.
Though she didn't understand the history, she knew that the term had power. Back in her day, when one pointed out the physical attributes associated with another person's black heritage, like having textured hair or an ebony complexion, that meant you wanted a fight. The irony was that her tormenter was African-American, too. Though Coleman grew up in a home that celebrated black beauty, she struck the girl in anger anyway.
Words like "kitchen" attacked the self-esteem of black girls, dredging up insecurities instilled more than a century before through the institution of slavery. African women were ridiculed for being dark, for having hair that was different in an American culture that lauded whiteness as the ideal. Or they were slammed for being light, for an alignment with a perceived enemy and maybe thinking themselves better because of it. That the knocks were internalized by generations of African-American girls, passed down and reinforced by images in the popular media added to the pain.
"I think all kids struggle with issues related to how they look," said Coleman, now 33, "and hope for other people to offer acceptance."
These days, working with girls in her nonprofit organization Sisterhood Agenda, in Durham, N.C., Coleman is hoping to create a different legacy. Rather than using their heritage as a tool to separate, she is teaching girls that the spectrum of black beauty is something to affirm.
The daughter of hardworking, middle-class parents who migrated from the South, Coleman grew up in Newark, N.J. Artwork depicting black life decorated her home. She played with dolls of all races. Her father shared his pride at being black at every opportunity. Coleman soaked in his words.
"He helped to influence me," she said. "I always maintained a high level of self-esteem."
Some of her classmates weren't so lucky. She heard some girls say they wished they were lighter. Others referred to straight or wavy hair as good and kinky hair as bad.
Coleman said she bought into notions about hair, too. In sixth grade, she asked her mother for a relaxer to chemically straighten her hair. She got one, despite her father's objections, only because she loved to swim in the summer and it made managing her hair easier.
It wasn't until attending Princeton, where Coleman majored in psychology and African-American studies, that she had an awakening. Coleman began exploring the self-image of black girls and women through doll studies and learning the origin of the beauty standards and negative connotations of blackness used to oppress and shame.
She realized that some African-Americans, though emancipated in body, had absorbed negative comments and were keeping their minds enslaved, she said. Through accepting ideas that straight hair and light skin were the only models of attractiveness, they were tearing down themselves and discounting the range of their beauty. Coleman sheared her long, relaxed hair and sported a short natural. She watched others grow into cultural pride around her, too. Coleman felt free.
About 10 years ago, Coleman moved to Durham and founded the Sisterhood Agenda.
Girls who turn on the TV today or flip through magazines can find more diverse images of black women. But often those dark-skinned models, she said, are portrayed having long hair or light eyes, as if those qualities alone validate them.
A group of teens who graduated from her "A Journey Toward Womanhood" program met recently at the Durham house that headquarters Sisterhood Agenda. In a sunny lobby adorned with African decor, they shared what they learned.
Ashlee Hopkins said that she watches TV now with a critical eye. She has noticed that music videos often feature black women with lighter complexions rather than darker ones. She would like to see more skin commercials that showcase black women of all shades. When Ashlee, 15, hears girls at school talk about good hair and bad hair, she knows different.
Jaelana Hall, 15, said that when she was younger, kids looked at the thick texture of her pigtails and the coffee color of her skin and poked fun. "They said, 'You're ugly,' " she said. "'You have nappy hair.' I used to take it kind of bad." Most of her tormenters had the same color skin she did.
Through the Sisterhood Agenda, Jaelana said that she has learned that there's not one standard of beauty. It's something that exists in every person, in every race, in her.

 

[JustKiya]

For a long time, I never wanted a daughter, because I did not want to pass the hair trait on to her.

*tears and hugs* I'm sorry ma.....thas hard....

 

[chocolatesis]

You're gonna be fine.

I know this sounds really silly, but this is what therapists suggest... the minute you start having a negative thought about your hair, think of something positive, EVEN IF you don't believe it yet or aren't convinced that it's true.

So if your hair is hard to do one day and you start thinking, "I hate this hair!" instead, say, "Okay, maybe I need to try something different because my hair shouldn't be hard to do."

If you are questioning God about why our hair is the way it is, flip it and say, "You know, our hair really is versatile. I saw a sista with long healthy hair relaxed today on LHCF and another with a big ole puff that looked so thick and strong. Our hair is great!"

And we won't ever know in this life what God's plan was for our hair, but since this is what we have now, let's embrace it. Or at least make peace with it... cause as JewelleNY said, maybe you'll get to heaven and see Jesus with a big ole fro. (Or at least some curls!)

Good luck to ya.

I don't think this is silly at all. It's the reason I primarily wear my hair in a ponytail. I realized that if I want to wear my hair in a way that "goes against the grain" so to speak, then I have to make adustments. Wearing it out everyday just doesn't work for me. So I primarily wear it in a braided ponytail or a braid-out ponytail, and wear it out now and then when I feel like it. But now, I actually prefer to wear my hair in ponytails.

 

[JustKiya]

You're gonna be fine.

I know this sounds really silly, but this is what therapists suggest... the minute you start having a negative thought about your hair, think of something positive, EVEN IF you don't believe it yet or aren't convinced that it's true.

So if your hair is hard to do one day and you start thinking, "I hate this hair!" instead, say, "Okay, maybe I need to try something different because my hair shouldn't be hard to do."

<snip>

And see - that right there is the thing. A lot of folx wouldn't even CONSIDER thinking that, because well 'everyone' knows that unless you have 'good' hair, nappy hair is SOOOOO HARD to deal with.

Just like a lot of US - before we came onto this site, wouldn't even have CONSIDERED the possibility that we could just MAYBE grow hair down to our behinds - because 'black hair doesn't grow'!!!

I really think the bottom line is education. If my hair could TAKE a perm and not make me look like a wet cat, I would most likely be permed RIGHT NOW - because I wasn't educated/aware of my options - AND I would be one of the MAIN ones saying that I permed my hair because my natural hair was too hard to deal with. And sadly enough, over the years, the pool of knowledge about how to style, clean, comb, grow and manage relaxed black hair is MUCH bigger than that of how to do the same with natural black hair. And regretfully, the slightly hardcore stance of some natural websites can be rather offputting, rather than immeadiately educating. Just think - even in BEAUTY SCHOOL - they don't teach people how to deal with NATURAL black hair. I mean - damn. You go to school to learn about hair, and totally IGNORE a whole segment of the population?

If there was as much info on ways to deal with natural hair, and as many stars rocking natural styles, and as many magazines profiling natural styles as there are ones for straight hair - it would be a whole nother ballgame. But - ya know, there's NEVER good money in keeping things natural, because it's usually the simplest way to be.

Not to call anyone out (SERIOUSLY) but I challenge you to add up how much money you spend a year on keeping your hair straight. Whether you press it (thermal protectors, pressing combs, flat irons, etc), relax it (scalp basers, neutralizing shampoos, relaxer, protien to repair, etc) weave it up (ya'll know what all goes into that) or wig it out (same there) - and then think about how much LESS stuff you would be using if you managed your natural hair.

I betcha you could go on vacation with the money you save - and Dark & Lovely, Clariol, Bronner Brothers, Pantene, Paul Mitchell, Motions, Sallys, and a WHOLE bunch of BSS's are QUITE thrilled that you aren't going on vacation.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Navsegda:

With all due respect: As one of the people who wants to get into the xyz and the roots with NO PROOF according to you, I trully see where you are coming from: You are the proof needer. No problem except let's make it fair. Let's deal with PROOF because I believe everyone should have an equal opportunity to truly be heard.

So " the need for proof is your issue with what is being said"????
Then let me be the first to offer you the opportunity to settle your need for proving things. In spite of the facts that:
The proof is in the literature written by the white scientists to "prove that blacks are inferior" which was often quoted in schools and universities!
The proof is in those "who have not been spared" your one world view or not been spared the trauma of racism in so many of its subtle or blatant forms.

I believe we need to hear everyone: You are presenting yourself as needing proof and numbers and specifics. So here is the only logical, empowering way for this to be settled for you so here it is:

#1. "How many people have you interviewed any or all of these people whom you claim are not having a problem and are making it up to be defending your "isolated" views that this has not happened, is not happening and that there is 'no proof'? What did they say? Was this a door to door interview or did you mail out questionnaires or do a par based survey? These methods may be of benefit to you.


# 2. We need to assume that you are being honest and that we are not. We also need to assume that you have PROOF to back up your statements.

Where is your proof? Bring forth your witnesses and documentation. Make sure they are African Americans and really exist. Make sure that you interview every black and white person in America. You will of course need to have these documented and notarized. To be totally fair you have to interview everybody to prove that it is TOTALLY ACCURATE.
#3. When can we expect your report? and of course it will have to be well referenced and supported by ethical scientific and legally relevant documentation. We will need quotes:

The fact is, we do not have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. If we know it, researched it and are aware of it, we will work our experiences out and eventually come to a deeper understanding of ourselves. Obviously this does not apply to you even though you obviously speak for ALL of us AND ALL of the white people in the world.

But I repeat....if Proof is your major issue: Bring forth your proof to us that you have the proof that what is being said on this forum is "made up", that there is no racist material in writing and on the internet, and that thousands have not been impacted by racism and suffer self esteem issues. Trust me, we will examine ALL your proof, because we are very discerning and thinking ladies and once you have proved to all of us that you are right, we will acknowledge that we are all wrong and delusional. I respectfully await your proof and look forward to considering everything you say as long as you stick with FACTS. None of would want to "look like fools" as you so delicately put it.
bonjour

 

[Mahalialee4]

Interestingly enough, combing through my hair is not an issue for me even though it is natural. For a long time being fine textured and fragile was. I am a licensed hair stylist and a natural hair researcher because hair is a passion of mine. I still do consulting on damaged hair and natural hair. I am also a writer, which involves an intense amount of accurate research. My background is business, and social sciences as well. (college and university) Of course social sciences involves a lot of history and often much research. Many of you well educated ladies know all this. My point is: There are many well educated women on this forum, well informed, as well. So I recognize the audience or context within which I am sharing my views. I really appreciate the honest integrity of the ladies who have not lost touch with their personal and social awareness. We all recognize that hair is not what we think do and say 24-7, for most of us, it is just on this forum, so it is wonderful to share the depths of our awareness in empathy and honesty on this forum. I think that this is a very enlightening thread.

Kally, thank you again. (hugs and more hugs)

bonjour

 

[Mahalialee4]

I'm an active member of three hair sites... this one, Nappturality and Naturallycurly. I get different information and fellowship from all three and I like them all... and I think there's a place for all of them.

I like this site because I am someone who loves long hair and I like being on a site in which that goal is promoted. I like seeing pictures of long hair too... makes me happy to see black women defying a conventional idea that our hair can't grow.

I like Naturallycurly because my hair is curlier than it is kinky (although some white folks would probably say otherwise) and I like getting information on enhancing my curls and using products specifically designed to keep curls looking curls as great as possible.

I like Nappturality because it's nice to see black women who choose to wear their hair natural have a place in which they can freely discuss their hair and their choice without any pressure to change it. Now, I know on LHCF, there is no pressure for anyone to change their hair, but most hair boards geared toward black women do have that vibe. It's one thing if a black woman wants to relax on her own, but if she wants to stay natural and is having trouble, it's good that Nappturality encourages her to stay natural instead of posting threads saying, "Get a perm."

What's my point? My point is that Nappturality's mission statement doesn't bother me at all because the founder doesn't believe that chemicals are necessary. She has every right to think that, and shape her board's mission that way, just like LHCF has the right to focus on long hair (Nappturality doesn't) and NC can promote curls (Nappturality doesn't).

Women who are natural and want to stay that way usually don't think there are benefits to using a chemical... for themselves. I think that's all that statement is saying, not making a generalization of all people.

I do think you should check out the site and read some of the threads to see how much the hair thing has affected some women though... I mean, even I was surprised after reading Nappturality to see how deep it was for some people. They have told some stories about their treatment in society that have made my mouth drop. It's just interesting to read.

Oh and as for the leprosy thing... I've never heard that. The only supposed racial curse I've heard of from the Bible is the curse on Ham for not covering up his father Noah when he was naked and drunk. Supposedly Ham was black and that's why "blacks" were cursed. Of course, the only people I hear making this argument are racists, so go figure.

I am a member of Nappturality as well and several other hair boards. loved your post

 

[Bunny77]

Just think - even in BEAUTY SCHOOL - they don't teach people how to deal with NATURAL black hair. I mean - damn. You go to school to learn about hair, and totally IGNORE a whole segment of the population?

Ooh, let me tell you about this!!!

As I mentioned before, I live in Detroit (well, now I'm 80 miles outside of the city, but I grew up in the city). Detroit has almost a million people and 70% are black. That's not counting the suburbs.

So you've got about a million black people in a major city with beauty shops on every corner. A few years after starting my transition, I decided I wanted to get my hair done in a salon... yes, I can do my own hair, but hey, don't I deserve pampering sometime too?

All I wanted was a freeform curly cut and style. No braids, no locs, none of that (btw, those are fine, just not what I wanted)... I called tons of places and asked for recommendations and no one could give me the name of a stylist.

If I lived in flippin' Wyoming, then I could understand... but I live in a city with a million black people and I have to search for a natural stylist like a needle in a haystack???

I found one black stylist who did the hair of all the celebrities in town (newscasters, Pistons wives, etc.), so I called her salon and told the receptionist what I wanted. This woman, who was white said, "Oh yeah, So-and-so is great and does all types of hair. She can put something on it to soften it up and it will be great."

UH, DID I ASK FOR A CHEMICAL??? I SAID I NEEDED SOMEONE WHO COULD STYLE AND CUT NATURAL HAIR!!

Well I went and as soon as the woman saw me, she apologized and said she didn't do natural hair, but she could recommend a braider. ARGH!

Years later, I found a stylist in a university town who did natural hair (mostly black/white biracial students). This woman was Hispanic. In Florida, my stylists were white and Asian women who specialized in white people's curly hair and just used the same techniques.

So... my point is... why can't I find a black stylist in a black city who can do black hair in a natural state? Why is it that the only thing they can do is straighten it? And obviously, there's not much of a demand for them to learn natural styling because they would have done it already... meanwhile, I was giving the white and Asian folks my money cause they could do what I asked for... but I'd like to support a black business in my hometown.

In the larger scheme of things, my "right" to be able to pick and choose the stylists I want is trivial, but again, this is another one of those instances in which you can look at and dismiss as nothing, or read between the lines and see that something pretty crappy is going on.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I would love to be able to go to a "black hair spa" that catered to all types and textures of hair and just get blessed out of my socks with pampering and gentle care and have a series of stylists that bend over backwards to bring out the maximum potential of what ever your hair texture.
Just simple washing, conditioning, steaming, and focusing on strengthening my hair....oh what a pleasant daydream. I live in Canada and often we are way behind the times. If you are having problems finding a salon in Detroit, you need to pray for me!!!! lolbonjour

 

[JustKiya]

I would love to be able to go to a "black hair spa" that catered to all types and textures of hair and just get blessed out of my socks with pampering and gentle care and have a series of stylists that bend over backwards to bring out the maximum potential of what ever your hair texture.
Just simple washing, conditioning, steaming, and focusing on strengthening my hair....oh what a pleasant daydream. I live in Canada and often we are way behind the times. If you are having problems finding a salon in Detroit, you need to pray for me!!!! lolbonjour

Ohhhweee!! How much would that ROCK??? Have a francise in the big black cities - LA, Detroit, Memphis, ATL, Baltimore, NYC, Chicago. They could have classes on how to cornroll. They could show folx how best to relax their hair without overprocessing. They would have every conditioner from Jamaican to Indian to Dominican on the shelves. The could do your hair, whether it was 4z or 1a - and treat it gently and lovingly. Have pictures of styles on every sort of hair. Have locticians and barbers and colorists - and the supreme focus would be healthy, stylish hair - no matter what texture you walked in (and out!) with.



*sigh* Something else to add to my list of stuff to do when I win the lottery.

 

[JustKiya]

Oooohhh!!

I knew there was something else I wanted to speak on - the whole thing about babies hair/is our hair supposed to be like this/Africans being able to grow more/longer hair.

I HONESTLY think that a LOT of it is our diets. You are what you eat, and I think that hair shows that a lot. I've talked to Indian women, who have commented on the HUGE difference in their hair (in a YEAR) between living in India vs. the US or Canada. It doesn't grow as fast, it breaks off more, it isn't as thick/full/shiny...
But! Over here, the water has more chemicals in it, the food isn't as fresh or as wholesome, the soil has been stripped of all it's natural goodness (if you can even CALL the dirt that a lot of our food is grown in 'soil'), the air is full of chemicals, the meat is full of chemicals and hormones, etc, etc, etc. Unless you are eating a locally grown, totally organic, mostly raw, grassfed/free range meat containing diet - who KNOWS how many trace minerals we are missing out on?

I think that is why so many of us have seen changes in our hair once we start taking supplements - because we are now supplying our body with the nutrients that it NEEDS and that our food is simply NOT providing. I also think it's a factor in why babies hair is so different - while they were in the womb, they got about the MOST perfect food possible....and it changes around six months or so? I wonder how many of those babies were BREASTFED (bestfed, as I like to call it) until they were six months and then stopped?

*grins* Perhaps a slightly less volatile topic to speak on.....

 

[navsegda]

Okay, I understand what you're getting at. The reason I seemed a little puzzled about some of your statements is because you seemed to express that you'd never heard any black woman make a negative statement about her hair

I definitely wasn't trying to express that I had never heard a black woman say something negative of her hair or others'. This may be hard for some to believe, but you can say something negative in passing about something you dislike about yourself and it does NOT have to be a deeper, self esteem issue unless you really just cannot let it go. You can look down and see a mole developing on your leg and say "Ugh, this is so ugly! I hate this mole!" but then you can just accept that it's there to stay and not worry yourself with it again. It doesn't mean that because you have said that you hate the mole that it's going to cause you personally to feel ugly or make you lose sleep at night. But if you keep harping about it, then that's a different story.

What I was trying to get across was is that I may have heard women say negative things about their hair, but I do not know for certain why the individuals are saying something negative unless they voice this somehow. Is it related to race? White beauty standards? Self esteem? The fact that they personally don't find something attractive? A combination of all these factors? Things really can be more complex than just writing it off as one simple issue.

I'm a neuroscientist and I've examined several people in the past and read tons of articles (have even written my own) about why the people I studied or read about behave a certain way (then again, I have concrete evidence if it involves a certain area of the brain, what you do not have concrete evidence no matter how much research you've done is someone's exact THOUGHT processes unless they reveal them). Does that mean because the majority of the people who I read about or studied who expressed feeling a certain way that this information dictates that you definitely do as well if you behave the same way they do? Not necessarily. It could be. It could not be. I wouldn't be able to make that assessment unless I talked to you and examined you myself. Now you may talk to people who you feel have characteristics outlined in articles about hair and self esteem issues, but if they don't tell you for certain, then you can't write it off for sure as one way or another. As a scientist, I will definitely agree that there are patterns of behavior but what this shows us is that there are only MANY people who fall under a certain category, it doesn't let us jump to the conclusion that it's the majority or ALL unless there have been further studies.

Also, what does "bad" from the article you are referring to mean? Does it refer to management, look, length, race, improper way of handling it, etc?

And regarding self-esteem... I don't think you have to be close to depression or suicide about your hair for there to be an issue.

Of course not. But there are all sorts of things that bother us that really aren't that big of a deal unless we or someone else makes it into one. If everyone jumped on every little negative thing people said, then no one would have any freedom of speech and so many people would probably be really pissed off hahaha.

However, we need to use common sense and appropriate caution about HOW much of an issue something is. I still hold on to the premise that unless someone is either 1. infringing upon your rights, 2. infringing upon someone else's, 3. going to harm herself (physically or emotionally), or 4. going to harm someone else then that does not mean that something absolutely needs to be done or addressed. Not everything warrants action. Now it doesn't hurt to give encouragement or answer questions when asked, but sometimes unsolicited advice can be the worst thing ever.

Take for instance a negative comment made about Bush. You can say "I hate Bush." Does this mean that the police need to bust into your house and arrest you or you need to be given a speech on patriotism and respecting him as the leader of our country? No. Now if you say you hate Bush and then you proceed to make terroristic threats, we have a problem and the issue needs to be addressed.

sign of something deeper. I personally don't think that can be denied by saying, "We don't know what's going on in their heads," because that's a whole lot of black heads that seem to have the same dislike for their hair.

It doesn't mean they're ashamed to be black and it doesn't mean they hate their hair... but more often than not, it does mean that they have internalized that their hair leaves something to be desired.

Saying that you don't know what is going on in their heads isn't denying anything at all. It's basically saying the only thing you know for certain. I agree with you that this is sometimes the case (specific reasons for dislike of black hair) but this is not always the case. You expressed sentiments earlier about your nose. Does this mean it's a sign of something deeper that if I don't give you encouragement or address the issue with you that it is going to cause you problems later on? Maybe. Maybe not.

As for something that can be desired, this isn't just true about ONLY hair. Many people have so many things that they feel are left to be desired: cars, clothes, levels of success, another child, a husband, a wife, etc. I'm not denying that if you constantly make comments about how ugly your hair is that it's not an issue. But sometimes things do not have to be anything internalized deeper or some type of self esteem problem, they are only an issue because we make them an issue at a certain point. You may not think anything negative about your natural texture at all until you have vast amounts of new growth and you are fighting with it. Then you may say on a whim, "UGH I FREAKING HATE THIS NAPPY CRAP SO MUCH!" Does this mean that you had some internalized hatred? Not necessarily. You had no problem with your natural texture until YOU started manipulating it in a harsh manner and thus, when you stop doing this, the sentiment may go away and when you find a solution you may say "MAN I LOVE MY NATURAL TEXTURE SO MUCH!" So thus, it doesn't have to be our thoughts about something that can cause the issue, it can be what we DO or don't do that cause a temporary issue. If we stopped doing the thing causing the issue, then maybe it would go away.

So what if you desire straighter hair and you relax to get it that way? So what if you desire a better looking nose and you get a nose job to get it that way? Is this something that's bothering you everyday on a regular basis or just something you wish for in passing? Do you feel you need a better nose? Does this mean you think your nose is bad? Does this mean if I hear 50,000 people say that big noses are ugly and read articles that I can try to read between the lines about YOUR personal case and tell you that you have serious self esteem issues? NO.

If you feel you need something, that's when it could be an internalized issue. No one needs to relax. No one needs to be natural. It's a choice we make.

I grew to believe that the best way to have one's hair was straight, unless you were some super-duper black militant (which I'm not.)

See, I've always been pretty open-minded. You know, the "You like it, I love it" type. I love straight hair but I never once thought that is the best standard of beauty for everyone. I loved long hair and wanted it for myself when I was little but I didn't think that long hair was the best standard of beauty for everyone. My aunt didn't have long hair (she wore hers in an Afro, still does to this day) and I thought it looked beautiful on her.


As for self esteem problems in hair, I'll say it again. Yes, I believe there are several with these. However, it's not just for black people. There are people in all races that express self esteem issues about their hair for different reasons. If a black girl does indeed express that she has self esteem issues about her hair then it doesn't have to be linked to her race at all. It could be, though. You may have a self esteem issue because your hair won't grow long or is breaking off. Now you may just happen to be black, but someone of another race could give this same dilemma.

which again, tells you something if you read between the lines.

It tells me that there is a problem. It tells me WHY it may be a problem for the people studied. But can I say that their reason for their problem is the same reason as the majority's problems with hair? NO. Can I say it is for many? YES.

(which I think is a well-founded and documented one) and I'm sticking to it!

There's a difference between giving your opinion and trying to say that your opinion is fact.

As I said before (before I even knew that you'd read articles), I believed that YOUR beliefs were founded/had ground because you had heard or overhead several of the women who relaxed in your area say negative comments and then the reasons why they made them. Reading articles or the results of statistical analyses is just another way of "hearing" (although indirectly) something if by hearing you mean obtaining information or reasons why. The only thing that we need to be cautious of is when someone obtains information (even from many) and then tries to apply it to some random person based on what they know about a subject. It could be helpful, but then again it can do more harm than good sometimes. We can inadvertently cause something that may not have been an issue for someone to become an issue if we aren't careful of our actions and our speech.

 

[CaramelMiSS]

I definitely wasn't trying to express that I had never heard a black woman say something negative of her hair or others'. This may be hard for some to believe, but you can say something negative in passing about something you dislike about yourself and it does NOT have to be a deeper, self esteem issue unless you really just cannot let it go. You can look down and see a mole developing on your leg and say "Ugh, this is so ugly! I hate this mole!" but then you can just accept that it's there to stay and not worry yourself with it again. It doesn't mean that because you have said that you hate the mole that it's going to cause you personally to feel ugly or make you lose sleep at night. But if you keep harping about it, then that's a different story.

What I was trying to get across was is that I may have heard women say negative things about their hair, but I do not know for certain why the individuals are saying something negative unless they voice this somehow. Is it related to race? White beauty standards? Self esteem? The fact that they personally don't find something attractive? A combination of all these factors? Things really can be more complex than just writing it off as one simple issue.

I'm a neuroscientist and I've examined several people in the past and read tons of articles (have even written my own) about why the people I studied or read about behave a certain way (then again, I have concrete evidence if it involves a certain area of the brain, what you do not have concrete evidence no matter how much research you've done is someone's exact THOUGHT processes unless they reveal them). Does that mean because the majority of the people who I read about or studied who expressed feeling a certain way that this information dictates that you definitely do as well if you behave the same way they do? Not necessarily. It could be. It could not be. I wouldn't be able to make that assessment unless I talked to you and examined you myself. Now you may talk to people who you feel have characteristics outlined in articles about hair and self esteem issues, but if they don't tell you for certain, then you can't write it off for sure as one way or another. As a scientist, I will definitely agree that there are patterns of behavior but what this shows us is that there are only MANY people who fall under a certain category, it doesn't let us jump to the conclusion that it's the majority or ALL unless there have been further studies.

Also, what does "bad" from the article you are referring to mean? Does it refer to management, look, length, race, improper way of handling it, etc?



Of course not. But there are all sorts of things that bother us that really aren't that big of a deal unless we or someone else makes it into one. If everyone jumped on every little negative thing people said, then no one would have any freedom of speech and so many people would probably be really pissed off hahaha.

However, we need to use common sense and appropriate caution about HOW much of an issue something is. I still hold on to the premise that unless someone is either 1. infringing upon your rights, 2. infringing upon someone else's, 3. going to harm herself (physically or emotionally), or 4. going to harm someone else then that does not mean that something absolutely needs to be done or addressed. Not everything warrants action. Now it doesn't hurt to give encouragement or answer questions when asked, but sometimes unsolicited advice can be the worst thing ever.

Take for instance a negative comment made about Bush. You can say "I hate Bush." Does this mean that the police need to bust into your house and arrest you or you need to be given a speech on patriotism and respecting him as the leader of our country? No. Now if you say you hate Bush and then you proceed to make terroristic threats, we have a problem and the issue needs to be addressed.


Saying that you don't know what is going on in their heads isn't denying anything at all. It's basically saying the only thing you know for certain. I agree with you that this is sometimes the case (specific reasons for dislike of black hair) but this is not always the case. You expressed sentiments earlier about your nose. Does this mean it's a sign of something deeper that if I don't give you encouragement or address the issue with you that it is going to cause you problems later on? Maybe. Maybe not.

As for something that can be desired, this isn't just true about ONLY hair. Many people have so many things that they feel are left to be desired: cars, clothes, levels of success, another child, a husband, a wife, etc. I'm not denying that if you constantly make comments about how ugly your hair is that it's not an issue. But sometimes things do not have to be anything internalized deeper or some type of self esteem problem, they are only an issue because we make them an issue at a certain point. You may not think anything negative about your natural texture at all until you have vast amounts of new growth and you are fighting with it. Then you may say on a whim, "UGH I FREAKING HATE THIS NAPPY CRAP SO MUCH!" Does this mean that you had some internalized hatred? Not necessarily. You had no problem with your natural texture until YOU started manipulating it in a harsh manner and thus, when you stop doing this, the sentiment may go away and when you find a solution you may say "MAN I LOVE MY NATURAL TEXTURE SO MUCH!" So thus, it doesn't have to be our thoughts about something that can cause the issue, it can be what we DO or don't do that cause a temporary issue. If we stopped doing the thing causing the issue, then maybe it would go away.

So what if you desire straighter hair and you relax to get it that way? So what if you desire a better looking nose and you get a nose job to get it that way? Is this something that's bothering you everyday on a regular basis or just something you wish for in passing? Do you feel you need a better nose? Does this mean you think your nose is bad? Does this mean if I hear 50,000 people say that big noses are ugly and read articles that I can try to read between the lines about YOUR personal case and tell you that you have serious self esteem issues? NO.

If you feel you need something, that's when it could be an internalized issue. No one needs to relax. No one needs to be natural. It's a choice we make.



See, I've always been pretty open-minded. You know, the "You like it, I love it" type. I love straight hair but I never once thought that is the best standard of beauty for everyone. I loved long hair and wanted it for myself when I was little but I didn't think that long hair was the best standard of beauty for everyone. My aunt didn't have long hair (she wore hers in an Afro, still does to this day) and I thought it looked beautiful on her.


As for self esteem problems in hair, I'll say it again. Yes, I believe there are several with these. However, it's not just for black people. There are people in all races that express self esteem issues about their hair for different reasons. If a black girl does indeed express that she has self esteem issues about her hair then it doesn't have to be linked to her race at all. It could be, though. You may have a self esteem issue because your hair won't grow long or is breaking off. Now you may just happen to be black, but someone of another race could give this same dilemma.



It tells me that there is a problem. It tells me WHY it may be a problem for the people studied. But can I say that their reason for their problem is the same reason as the majority's problems with hair? NO. Can I say it is for many? YES.



There's a difference between giving your opinion and trying to say that your opinion is fact.

As I said before (before I even knew that you'd read articles), I believed that YOUR beliefs were founded/had ground because you had heard or overhead several of the women who relaxed in your area say negative comments and then the reasons why they made them. Reading articles or the results of statistical analyses is just another way of "hearing" (although indirectly) something if by hearing you mean obtaining information or reasons why. The only thing that we need to be cautious of is when someone obtains information (even from many) and then tries to apply it to some random person based on what they know about a subject. It could be helpful, but then again it can do more harm than good sometimes. We can inadvertently cause something that may not have been an issue for someone to become an issue if we aren't careful of our actions and our speech.

WOW, you are a neuroscientist!! That is soo cool, my professor was telling us about how the two sides of the brain function when they are connected and when they are not connected and i thought it was interesting. Could you possibly pm me about what you do in your field. Thanks!!

 

[Bunny77]

As I said before (before I even knew that you'd read articles), I believed that YOUR beliefs were founded/had ground because you had heard or overhead several of the women who relaxed in your area say negative comments and then the reasons why they made them. Reading articles or the results of statistical analyses is just another way of "hearing" (although indirectly) something if by hearing you mean obtaining information or reasons why.

Just to clarify, my beliefs come from a combination of both things. The articles I have read coincide with the things that I have heard directly, so I look at both as pretty accurate depictions... not 100% truths about every black person, but general commonalities.

One last thing (haven't I said that before?)... using the "Your hair is nappy" example... that statement is also used as "fighting words" for one black woman to insult another. Also the term "bad hair" seems to only have resonance in the black community, even though women of all races can have bad hair days or be frizzy and struggle with their hair... no other race in this country has a whole category of hair they describe as bad or considers a comment about hair worthy of starting a fight or defending oneself from a fight.

I'm wondering what you think about that.

And neuroscience is interesting... I have a degree in social relations/public affairs (although that's not my career field), so I'm thinking we have different ways of interpreting information we are given.

 

[navsegda]

Just to clarify, my beliefs come from a combination of both things. The articles I have read coincide with the things that I have heard directly, so I look at both as pretty accurate depictions... not 100% truths about every black person, but general commonalities.

One last thing (haven't I said that before?)... using the "Your hair is nappy" example... that statement is also used as "fighting words" for one black woman to insult another. Also the term "bad hair" seems to only have resonance in the black community, even though women of all races can have bad hair days or be frizzy and struggle with their hair... no other race in this country has a whole category of hair they describe as bad or considers a comment about hair worthy of starting a fight or defending oneself from a fight.

I'm wondering what you think about that.

And neuroscience is interesting... I have a degree in social relations/public affairs (although that's not my career field), so I'm thinking we have different ways of interpreting information we are given.

OK, first of all. Why is there a character limit for posts?

Second of all, back to your question haha. I do not like to call someone else's hair nappy. Maybe that's just me. I do see it as being a derogatory term a lot of the time when people use it (but like I've said I've had people tell me they were just making an observation and they weren't trying to be insulting, so yeah). If you said your hair is nappy, I'm still going to continue calling you natural. I think sometimes it can be one of those things where YOU can say something about yourself but if someone else says it, then all hell breaks loose.

Personally, I've heard whites refer to certain types of their own hair texture as bad (not referring to straight whites commenting on curly-haired whites but whites who have a texture similar to some of ours). I've even heard some of them call some of their own's hair "nappy" and poke fun and laugh. This is once again why I do not like hearing other people refer to someone else's hair as "nappy." When I think of naps I think of white people saying "n**ger naps" and I don't understand why we'd use a term that so many have degraded us by. I can understand that many of us may be referring to our natural hair as nappy so we can turn a positive light on a term that was once used to degrade us to get people to accept their hair, but to me it's like taking the term n**ger (a term also used to degrade us) and starting to call each other that, too just to bring about a more positive light. I mean, I'll hear all sorts of people say "I love my nappy hair" but you won't hear anyone say "I love my n**ger skin."

 

[Hidden_Angel]

OK, first of all. Why is there a character limit for posts?

Second of all, back to your question haha. I do not like to call someone else's hair nappy. Maybe that's just me. I do see it as being a derogatory term a lot of the time when people use it (but like I've said I've had people tell me they were just making an observation and they weren't trying to be insulting, so yeah). If you said your hair is nappy, I'm still going to continue calling you natural. I think sometimes it can be one of those things where YOU can say something about yourself but if someone else says it, then all hell breaks loose.

Personally, I've heard whites refer to certain types of their own hair texture as bad (not referring to straight whites commenting on curly-haired whites but whites who have a texture similar to some of ours). I've even heard some of them call some of their own's hair "nappy" and poke fun and laugh. This is once again why I do not like hearing other people refer to someone else's hair as "nappy." When I think of naps I think of white people saying "n**ger naps" and I don't understand why we'd use a term that so many have degraded us by. I can understand that many of us may be referring to our natural hair as nappy so we can turn a positive light on a term that was once used to degrade us to get people to accept their hair, but to me it's like taking the term n**ger (a term also used to degrade us) and starting to call each other that, too just to bring about a more positive light. I mean, I'll hear all sorts of people say "I love my nappy hair" but you won't hear anyone say "I love my n**ger skin."[/quote]

The reason why is because we were seprated because of skin color, (we all know about that). But the point is we are more accpective about ones "natural" hair then ones skin tone. Its sad but very true!

 

[Country gal]

WOW. Ya'll are still going at it. This is a long thread.

 

[Hidden_Angel]

WOW. Ya'll are still going at it. This is a long thread.

i was thinking the same thing

 

[jshor09]

wow 36 pages. this post is to make it 37. hugs to everyone.