Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[jshor09]

this is a long thread

 

[Hibiscus_Hair]

I think our hair was meant to be locked.

 

[lovegan]

Oooohhh!!

I knew there was something else I wanted to speak on - the whole thing about babies hair/is our hair supposed to be like this/Africans being able to grow more/longer hair.

I HONESTLY think that a LOT of it is our diets. You are what you eat, and I think that hair shows that a lot. I've talked to Indian women, who have commented on the HUGE difference in their hair (in a YEAR) between living in India vs. the US or Canada. It doesn't grow as fast, it breaks off more, it isn't as thick/full/shiny...
But! Over here, the water has more chemicals in it, the food isn't as fresh or as wholesome, the soil has been stripped of all it's natural goodness (if you can even CALL the dirt that a lot of our food is grown in 'soil'), the air is full of chemicals, the meat is full of chemicals and hormones, etc, etc, etc. Unless you are eating a locally grown, totally organic, mostly raw, grassfed/free range meat containing diet - who KNOWS how many trace minerals we are missing out on?

I think that is why so many of us have seen changes in our hair once we start taking supplements - because we are now supplying our body with the nutrients that it NEEDS and that our food is simply NOT providing. I also think it's a factor in why babies hair is so different - while they were in the womb, they got about the MOST perfect food possible....and it changes around six months or so? I wonder how many of those babies were BREASTFED (bestfed, as I like to call it) until they were six months and then stopped?

*grins* Perhaps a slightly less volatile topic to speak on.....

I concur..garbage in is garbage out. you put garbage in your body-what do you think your skin and hair will look like?

to the original question of the post: i don't think our hair is inherently difficult ....it's what we CHOOSE to do to it: straighten it, high light it, etc etc.

a lot of the ladies here have commented on how much longer and healtheir their hair is when they leave it the heck alone! haha

i think its about finding a balance between what you are naturally born with and what you want to have. you weren't born with bone straight, blonde hair, why fight and burn and pull and struggle your way to get it?

 

[Mahalialee4]

FINAL POST TO Navsegda : All good science starts with a hypothesis: in laymen's terms
the purpose of the study of science is to uncover, to dissect, if you will, to look for commonalities, to take a percentile of findings and form a theory. Often they use par based surveys. They do not knock on every door or send questionanaires to every home, but we have a lot of info out there that is scientifically based, routinely quoted, and it may not fit your personal "criteria" on a variety of issues and human concerns.
When evaluating you not only look at quantitative (numbers), you look at qualitative.( the overall climate, spirit and projection.

You may represent the 1 % who have never read these theories, or been in the place of the 99% who have and have experienced it in their daily lives. I am actively engaged with black communities of women on a regular basis dealing with these very specific issues as a speaker, counselor etc. not just locally but nationally and involved with government agencies addressing issues relating to the black communities and I have also been involved with companies dealing with racism and human rights complaints, setting up Ethics committees in businesses etc. Whether I am in Canada, the U.S. or the Islands, or visiting campuses etc. I find the same pattern repeating itself. I believe what they share with me. That is even aside from published literature
(part one)

 

[Mahalialee4]

Part Two of Final Post
But to argue that none of these “ racist scientific” theories or summations are in print, and used to shape public opinion or to manipulate outcomes is surprising given your background, wouldn't you say?
To argue that there are not a large number of internet discussion boards devoted to promoting racial superiority would be very presumptious. They refer to some of this same "scientific " data to support their views.
Guess who their main subject matter is? Take a WILD GUESS. Guess whose hair and features they are making fun of? But as I said, you do your own research, I have already done mine.
To say that putting in words, on paper, in the media, and in the schools, and dividing up whole countries along racial lines establishing a world wide playing field of the superiors and inferiors according to the “genetics science” back in the day, did not and does not exist and did not shape a world view of black people and an internalizing by black people is not scientific on your part, it is condescending and you are out of step with many of your peers and those in other related scientific fields or perhaps you haven't had the opportunity or desire to examine any of these findings.
But I am still waiting for the report of "your proof" that has been the rallying cry of your gauntlet. Let's not forget that in the midst of your dialogue, because you have made some judgemental statements that were unfounded to some on this thread that were not scientifically based, by inferring that people were "making up things, that they were not speaking from any proof, and quibbling about numbers. I personally will not go round and round in circles with you any further in a cycle of circular reasoning. We do not apparently have the same focus. I will leave you to deal with stats and I will focus on people. I do not believe that the history of black women's pain revolving their hair is all in their heads. I acknowledge it and weep with them and for them as one of them and continue to focus on the root causes of the pain rather than offering a bandaid because I care very deeply about my people.
Love and peace out! bonjour

 

[Mahalialee4]

Kally, I could direct you to some sites that focus on easier management of our hair if it is caused by tangling, or dryness or some other factor. PM me if you like. There is one thread that is about 150 pages long dedicated to it that I started some time ago. I will send that one to you by pm now.

 

[Sistaslick]

Just to clarify, my beliefs come from a combination of both things. The articles I have read coincide with the things that I have heard directly, so I look at both as pretty accurate depictions... not 100% truths about every black person, but general commonalities.

One last thing (haven't I said that before?)... using the "Your hair is nappy" example... that statement is also used as "fighting words" for one black woman to insult another. Also the term "bad hair" seems to only have resonance in the black community, even though women of all races can have bad hair days or be frizzy and struggle with their hair... no other race in this country has a whole category of hair they describe as bad or considers a comment about hair worthy of starting a fight or defending oneself from a fight.

I'm wondering what you think about that.

And neuroscience is interesting... I have a degree in social relations/public affairs (although that's not my career field), so I'm thinking we have different ways of interpreting information we are given.

I told myself to stay out of here but from reading both sides, this really appears to be the case to me.

Ok, I can't speak for everybody but lemme see if I have this straight. Navs, it kinda seems that your logic requires someone to explicitly voice their particular reasons for relaxing. And that reason only, is the final proof and/or truth for that person at that time. Only by that person admitting or voicing that particular reasoning can it be said that this reasoning is valid. From this standpoint, the individual herself is the final authority. The reasoning behind the actions are as concrete as the answer given. But here, the predisposing, enabling, and reinforcing factors that may be governing the behavior are essentially ignored. To me, this is a somewhat cosmetic or surface scratching approach. The problem with this is that if a person is unaware of those factors, they are missing a critical link needed to explain their behaviors, without it they cannot admit to anything. They can only admit what they "know" which can be flawed, lacking, or dicey if those factors are not included in the assessment. Or is it more of an "There's a history to this behavior/action, but I am separate from that history because I do it for x,y,z?"

It seems that Bunny and others are referring to the deeper social and psycological aspects of the debate-- the fact that many people are following a "social script" when they relax and may not truly be fully aware of the deeper social roots of their actions. In this case, many will not admit that their relaxing comes from something beyond them and their manageability issues simply because they are not aware of it. It is kind of hard to admit or come to terms with something that you aren't aware of. From this standpoint, the individual is inherently flawed and subject to the power of influence from the environment. In this case, a person may not be fully aware of the reasons for her actions. From this point of view, the meat of the issue is hardly manageability. This issue (and its ugly twin the skin color/tone issue) goes much deeper. To me, this approach is much deeper because it deals with the effects of socialization on the subconcious. It seems to say, "There's a history to this behavior, and though I do it for x,y,z I am still connected to that history because reason x,y, and z are by products of that history."

I don't know though. I guess it depends on if you want to see this as an individual issue or a community issue. :scratchch Let me get outta here I am confusing my own self.

 

[Sistaslick]

WOW. Ya'll are still going at it. This is a long thread.

Its that time of year again. We have to get the relaxed v. natural debates out of our system for the fiscal year.

Waiting for some light-skindeded/dark-skindeded OT threads to pop up

 

[navsegda]

Navsegda:

So " the need for proof is your issue with what is being said"????

I believe that when we make a statement ABOUT THE MAJORITY then we need proof. If someone says "All black people are X way" then I want proof because otherwise you are talking out of your ass. We do not need broad, sweeping generalizations. I do not have an issue with the validity of what people are saying. I ask questions because I want to know why they think the way they do and I do not want to make assumptions about what they mean without clarification.

The proof is in the literature written by the white scientists to "prove that blacks are inferior" which was often quoted in schools and universities!

I do not deny this. However, not ALL of those white scientists say that blacks are inferior. Some of them did, but not all.

The proof is in those "who have not been spared" your one world view or not been spared the trauma of racism in so many of its subtle or blatant forms.

I do not have a one world view. For you to say so is ludicrous and plain out asinine. I believe that there are many elements that make up something and that many things are more complex than meets the eye (which is what I've been saying all along) and we need some type of proof before we go making any broad, all-encompassing claims. That would make us no better than the "white scientists" who made all these claims about black people being barbaric and inferior when they had no proof.

I believe we need to hear everyone: You are presenting yourself as needing proof and numbers and specifics. So here is the only logical, empowering way for this to be settled for you so here it is:

#1. all of these people whom you claim are not having a problem and are making it up to be defending your "isolated" views that this has not happened, is not happening and that there is 'no proof'? What did they say? Was this a door to door interview or did you mail out questionnaires or do a par based survey?

First of all, do not put words into my mouth. I have NEVER claimed that anyone was NOT having a problem unless they of course TOLD me that they were not. I never said that this was not happening. When someone mentioned about personally knowing girls who had problems, not once did I say that they were lying or that the problems did not exist. I asked WHY this problem existed because I was interested in what they had to say, but never have I told someone "Oh please, you didn't do any research. You're just lying." I said that based on the research you have done, you cannot APPLY IT TO EVERYONE or any random person and have it be true for them as well. Furthermore, I said that many can have this problem of self esteem and there are many others who cannot. It leaves room for error. I do not have to do questionnaires or door to door interviews because I'm not saying that anything is for certain (except that we do not know what's going on in everyone's head) in the FIRST place. I'm not saying that "most black women have a problem with black hair and self esteem." I'm not saying that "all relaxed women have a problem with black hair and self esteem." I'm saying that people COULD have a problem and that MANY do but that is ALL I'm saying. How is this wrong?

Second of all, my views are NOT isolated and you cannot presume to tell me that they are because of what I've said here (or even worse, from what I haven't said that you are ASSUMING that I feel). I have NEVER denied that black people (go back and reread my posts) had issues and I have NEVER said that anyone in this thread was making stuff up about what they read or about what they heard based on self esteem issues. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Why don't you try it sometime? The only time anyone here would need to prove anything to me is if they made a broad claim like "All black women have serious self esteem issues regarding their hair" and guess what? No one has said it. If I say, "I have yet to see evidence" of X, it does NOT mean that I am implying that it doesn't exist, but it's just like I said: I just haven't seen it (yet).

See, this is exactly what happens when we make ASSUMPTIONS. Instead of you asking me what I believed like Bunny77 did, here you go pulling all this sh*t out of your ass with some sanctimonious holier-than-thou, more enlightened than thou attitude. I have not said that anyone's issues are in the majority so thus the burden of proof does NOT need to lie on me. The burden of proof only lies on someone when they say that something ISN'T the way it is. If you tell me that black women are having self esteem issues and I say "This definitely isn't true," then THAT is when the burden of proof would lie on me. I believe in certainty and thus I am not going to say for certain that something is the way it is or not for most people because of reason X,Y,Z. Everything else is many, ifs, maybes, etc. and if you look through my posts you will see just that. Not once did I ever claim that anything was a hardcore fact that wasn't.

# 2. We need to assume that you are being honest and that we are not. We also need to assume that you have PROOF to back up your statements.

Where is your proof? Bring forth your witnesses and documentation. Make sure they are African Americans and really exist. Make sure that you interview every black and white person in America. You will of course need to have these documented and notarized. To be totally fair you have to interview everybody to prove that it is TOTALLY ACCURATE.

You don't need to assume a damn thing because I never said or implied that the rest of you were NOT being honest when you provided examples of why black girls may or may not have hair issues. I asked questions so I could learn more about what was being said and why it was being said. How is this so freaking hard for you to understand?

#3. When can we expect your report? and of course it will have to be well referenced and supported by ethical scientific and legally relevant documentation. We will need quotes:

You can expect my report on the 12th of never when what you've actually said here about me is really true. Since you are having some major problems with comprehending my posts, I suggest you go back and then comment with ACCURACY on statements that I have made. What kind of sense would it make for me to go out and do a study and then make a report when I wasn't making any definite claims in the first place? To just prove what I had been saying all along? That there is so much room for variation and that just because there are many people who may say a certain thing it doesn't mean that everyone in a particular category feels the exact same way?

The fact is, we do not have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. If we know it, researched it and are aware of it, we will work our experiences out and eventually come to a deeper understanding of ourselves. Obviously this does not apply to you even though you obviously speak for ALL of us AND ALL of the white people in the world.

How am I speaking for all of us and all the people in the world? I am the one who has repeatedly talked about tolerance and acceptance and that there are always exceptions, so please, once again, tell me how I am trying to speak for everyone again? And when I mentioned what I knew about whites I was always careful to say words like "some" or "several" or "if" because I KNOW that I cannot speak for everyone. Please show me where I ever said "all blacks" or "all whites."

 

[JustKiya]

Oh, man!! I was hoping we would get into the diet thing... I see I'mma have to start a new thread.... *LOL*

 

[LocksOfLuV]

This is no longer a thread. This is a after-school marathon session on how one should love themselves.

On the real, all of these long drawn out posts/scriptures isn't going to solve the problem. For no one is truly even understanding one another. It just keeps going and going and going....

 

[Sistaslick]

Whoa simma simma Navs!!!

*hands Navs a water bottle and towel*

 

[Hidden_Angel]

I agree with you LOVElocks...

this mess is started to scare me abit..

 

[LocksOfLuV]

Whoa simma simma Navs!!!

*hands Navs a water bottle and towel*

Yeah Navs, don't let em see you sweat. It's not worth it honey. For every 1-3 people in this post who don't understand your point there is about 5 lurkers nodding their heads. It's all good in the hood.

 

[Hidden_Angel]

Yeah Navs, don't let em see you sweat. It's not worth it honey. For every 1-3 people in this post who don't understand your point there is about 5 lurkers nodding their heads. It's all good in the hood.

I have to agree.. on this one...

 

[Sistaslick]

This is no longer a thread. This is a after-school marathon session on how one should love themselves.

On the real, all of these long drawn out posts/scriptures isn't going to solve the problem. For no one is truly even understanding one another. It just keeps going and going and going....

I haven't gotten any work done today. None.

Locks, You should love yourself better. You really should. *blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*


*long drawn out*

*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*

You need to love yourself.

 

[navsegda]

Bring forth your proof to us that you have the proof that what is being said on this forum is "made up", that there is no racist material in writing and on the internet, and that thousands have not been impacted by racism and suffer self esteem issues. we will acknowledge that we are all wrong and delusional. I respectfully await your proof and look forward to considering everything you say as long as you stick with FACTS. None of would want to "look like fools" as you so delicately put it.
bonjour

If you say "All black people relax their hair because they are ashamed of their heritage" then YES, you need to provide proof that all black people do this. Come on now, this is just common sense.

I NEVER said that anything on this forum is made up. Not once. I never said that there was no racist material in writing or on the internet, and I never said that thousands HAVE NOT been impacted by racism or do not suffer self esteem issues. Please reread my posts and quote me to where I said that these women were lying or making stuff up based on their own experiences or what they have read. The only thing I said was that we cannot use information BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that we've studied about others or heard from others and use it to lump everyone in the same category. I also never said anyone was wrong or delusional. Based on the research we have done, while it may be valid, it does not mean that it absolutely has to apply to the majority or will apply to every random person we meet that may be exhibiting the same type of behavior.

This is why I tried to reiterate so much that no one likes being told WHAT they thought especially when the person telling them could be way off the mark, as you are.

Next time you reply to me, reply to stuff I've actually said like every other logical human being in this thread. Don't reply based on the BROAD generalizations you have made about me with NO PROOF whatsoever.

When you actually KNOW HOW I FEEL OR WHAT'S GOING ON IN MY HEAD, then you come back to me.

But thanks to you, you have just proven my point once again about how important it is to have PROOF before we say things. Not assumptions. Assumptions make you look very ignorant, no matter how smart you may think you are. Note: This part has been re-edited to remove the swearing.

FINAL POST TO Navsegda : All good science starts with a hypothesis: in laymen's terms
the purpose of the study of science is to uncover, to dissect, if you will, to look for commonalities, to take a percentile of findings and form a theory. Often they use par based surveys. They do not knock on every door or send questionanaires to every home, but we have a lot of info out there that is scientifically based, routinely quoted, and it may not fit your personal "criteria" on a variety of issues and human concerns.
When evaluating you not only look at quantitative (numbers), you look at qualitative.( the overall climate, spirit and projection.

Lady, I do not need layman's terms. Please do no tell me what the purpose of science is, you know, considering how I AM a scientist and I DO have published research of my own. I will not sit back here and be condescended to by someone who has twisted my words, twisted my views, and told outright blatantly wrong things about HOW I FEEL.

I know how science works. I never said they have to knock on every door and send questionnaires to every home to be valid. Therefore, I do not need you to tell me something that I already know. But no scientist or sociologist or psychologist is sitting around claiming that what they have studied cannot be proven wrong or that something they've observed about someone else's behavior has to apply to EVERY single person on the face of this Earth.

You may represent the 1 % who have never read these theories, or been in the place of the 99% who have and have experienced it in their daily lives. I am actively engaged with black communities of women on a regular basis dealing with these very specific issues as a speaker, counselor etc. not just locally but nationally and involved with government agencies addressing issues relating to the black communities and I have also been involved with companies dealing with racism and human rights complaints, setting up Ethics committees in businesses etc. Whether I am in Canada, the U.S. or the Islands, or visiting campuses etc. I find the same pattern repeating itself. I believe what they share with me. That is even aside from published literature
(part one)

Ok, once again, WHEN did I say that I have never read these theories or never heard theories on black women with self esteem issues and hair? And better yet, when did I say I BELIEVED that these theories presented to me were false? Oh that's right. I didn't. So thus, there is no reason or evidence for me to be in the 1% who may have never read these theories because that would be untrue in the first place.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

I haven't gotten any work done today. None.

Locks, You should love yourself better. You really should. *blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*


*long drawn out*

*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*
*blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah**blah blah blah*

You need to love yourself.

Shame on you!!!!!


























You forgot the scriptures....

 

[cocoberry10]

Environment and socialization have a lot of influence on the perceptions of our hair along with the way our hair exists on top of our heads.

Environment: food, pollution, chemicals, weather/climate, etc.

Socialization: The straighter the hair, the better. The "blonder" the hair, the better. The longer the hair, the better. But if one's hair does NOT look like these things "naturally" or with help, it takes a toll on one's psyche.

So "difficult" is a relative term. A personal term. An individual interpretation. "Difficult" is a value-laden term.

I agree with this.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

I have to agree.. on this one...

People probably reading this thread thinking "they look like some plum dumb fools!"

"I thought I told you that we won't stop"-Puffy

 

[cocoberry10]

I believe we have the most beautiful, versatile hair in the world. Haircare can be easy once we learn how. The same applies to all hair types.

God made our hair perfectly. The struggle some people have is working against their hair, trying to make it appear according to someone else's standard.

For me, I make sure my hair journey is totally fun and it has been. That's what makes it easy and something to look forward to.

I totally agree with this

 

[navsegda]

Part Two of Final Post
But to argue that none of these “ racist scientific” theories or summations are in print, and used to shape public opinion or to manipulate outcomes is surprising given your background, wouldn't you say?

How is it surprising given my background when first of all I have NOT argued that none of these "racist scientific" theories are in print? Where in the WORLD did I say that ANYWHERE? One that is still in print for instance is the one where whites tried to say we were inferior because they used beans in a white person and black person's skulls and they said that white people were more intelligent because more beans could fit in their skull.

To argue that there are not a large number of internet discussion boards devoted to promoting racial superiority would be very presumptious. They refer to some of this same "scientific " data to support their views.
Guess who their main subject matter is? Take a WILD GUESS. Guess whose hair and features they are making fun of? But as I said, you do your own research, I have already done mine.

*sigh*

I never ever argued this. Man, I'm having to say that a lot lately.

To say that putting in words, on paper, in the media, and in the schools, and dividing up whole countries along racial lines establishing a world wide playing field of the superiors and inferiors according to the “genetics science” back in the day, did not and does not exist and did not shape a world view of black people and an internalizing by black people is not scientific on your part, it is condescending and you are out of step with many of your peers and those in other related scientific fields or perhaps you haven't had the opportunity or desire to examine any of these findings.

I never said this either. It wouldn't be scientific on my part if I had actually assumed or said the things that you are assuming I did or feel.

But I am still waiting for the report of "your proof" that has been the rallying cry of your gauntlet. Let's not forget that in the midst of your dialogue, because you have made some judgemental statements that were unfounded to some on this thread that were not scientifically based, by inferring that people were "making up things, that they were not speaking from any proof, and quibbling about numbers. I personally will not go round and round in circles with you any further in a cycle of circular reasoning. We do not apparently have the same focus. I will leave you to deal with stats and I will focus on people. I do not believe that the history of black women's pain revolving their hair is all in their heads. I acknowledge it and weep with them and for them as one of them and continue to focus on the root causes of the pain rather than offering a bandaid because I care very deeply about my people.
Love and peace out! bonjour

Never inferred that anyone was making up things. Please get your story straight.

Wow, this is my shortest post in this entire thread HAHAHAHA.

 

[Sistaslick]

You can expert my report on the 12th of never

I'm sorry but why you had to say this

 

[Hidden_Angel]

I have to agree with Mahalialee4 and Navs.. both bring vaild points....

I'd pay to watch these two smart woman duke it out \

*Brain* vs. *Brain*

 

[shocol]

Oh, man!! I was hoping we would get into the diet thing... I see I'mma have to start a new thread.... *LOL*

Please do... cause I am starting to really believe this.

 

[JazzyDez]

 

[navsegda]

I told myself to stay out of here but from reading both sides, this really appears to be the case to me.

Ok, I can't speak for everybody but lemme see if I have this straight. Navs, it kinda seems that your logic requires someone to explicitly voice their particular reasons for relaxing. And that reason only, is the final proof and/or truth for that person at that time. Only by that person admitting or voicing that particular reasoning can it be said that this reasoning is valid. From this standpoint, the individual herself is the final authority. The reasoning behind the actions are as concrete as the answer given. But here, the predisposing, enabling, and reinforcing factors that may be governing the behavior are essentially ignored. To me, this is a somewhat cosmetic or surface scratching approach. The problem with this is that if a person is unaware of those factors, they are missing a critical link needed to explain their behaviors, without it they cannot admit to anything. They can only admit what they "know" which can be flawed, lacking, or dicey if those factors are not included in the assessment. Or is it more of an "There's a history to this behavior/action, but I am separate from that history because I do it for x,y,z?"

Thank you for politely addresing me and for not putting words in my mouth. What I meant to get across in this whole matter is that none of us can say for certain why every black woman relaxes because we do not know every black woman and we cannot say that because some black women may relax or because some black women may feel uncomfortable with their hair for reason X, Y, or Z that it means that ALL black women in the same or similar situations feel the same way. We can read research and be told how several black women feel about the matter but for anyone to see a random relaxed person on the street for instance, and say, "Oh, she relaxes because she has self esteem issues with her natural hair" would be incorrect. This does not make the information you have obtained any less valid because it stills hold true for the people who have told you things and that you have read about, but it may not hold true for every relaxed person you come into contact with. Is this clearer? If it's not, please let me know so I can try to clarify.

It seems that Bunny and others are referring to the deeper social and psycological aspects of the debate-- the fact that many people are following a "social script" when they relax and may not truly be fully aware of the deeper social roots of their actions. In this case, many will not admit that their relaxing comes from something beyond them and their manageability issues simply because they are not aware of it. It is kind of hard to admit or come to terms with something that you aren't aware of. From this standpoint, the individual is inherently flawed and subject to the power of influence from the environment. In this case, a person may not be fully aware of the reasons for her actions. From this point of view, the meat of the issue is hardly manageability. This issue (and its ugly twin the skin color/tone issue) goes much deeper. To me, this approach is much deeper because it deals with the effects of socialization on the subconcious. It seems to say, "There's a history to this behavior, and though I do it for x,y,z I am still connected to that history because reason x,y, and z are by products of that history."

I don't know though. I guess it depends on if you want to see this as an individual issue or a community issue. :scratchch Let me get outta here I am confusing my own self.

See, what you are saying is definitely valid because you (and others in the thread) have repeatedly said "many." I try to leave room open for error by saying that someone could or could not feel a certain way (whether they express this or not) because that's just how things are. Many do have this issue. On the contrary, some may not. Many do not fully understand why they do the things they do. My whole premise is that we can quantify and qualify things in terms of many, several, etc. but we cannot say what all or even most (in some cases, not talking about separate studies) do or feel with certainty just based on what others do or feel.

 

[Kalani]

I am sick of my difficult hair. From straight to natural to braids to wigs to braids again. i feel like this is a raw deal. i cuss about it every now and again. forget socialization and all that crap. right now, i wish i had hair that i could sleep on and not worry about breakage, that i could take a swim in the sea and not worry about salt, go to the gym and not worry about whether i should wash everyday or not.

I have not read through all of the posts but AMEN to this!!!

Forget trying to be PC, I mean I love my curls and all cause they are beautiful but just for once I would like to do all that is mentioned in the above post without the huge hassle! And I'm sorry but even when my hair was all natural it was still hella difficult to deal with! Trying to get a comb thru my hair (even with conditioner and oils) was a one hour ordeal! Now thanks to my handy phytorelaxer , it takes considerably less time.

I know all races have their own little problems but are simple recreational things as much as a hassle for them? I know some of my white and asian friends who can frolick at the beach or the pool swimming, then spend the rest of the entire day out in the sun (no protection) and their hair will literally dry back to its normal position before the swim. You wouldn't even know they were at the beach cause sometimes we'll go out to eat right after our day of swimming and surfing, and their hair will look all normal and groomed and mine will be a complete departure from its previous state (and trust me its not a pretty sight).

I know this seems silly and trivial but I'm an active person and I yearn for such convenience, I am not afraid to say it!!!

 

[Sistaslick]

See, what you are saying is definitely valid because you (and others in the thread) have repeatedly said "many." I try to leave room open for error by saying that someone could or could not feel a certain way (whether they express this or not) because that's just how things are. Many do have this issue. On the contrary, some may not. Many do not fully understand why they do the things they do. My whole premise is that we can quantify and qualify things in terms of many, several, etc. but we cannot say what all or even most (in some cases, not talking about separate studies) do or feel with certainty just based on what others do or feel.

Okay, I won't be greedy and I'll take that. I ain't tryna get cut.


I'm still laughing over that report being issued on the 12th of never.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

I have not read through all of the posts but AMEN to this!!!

Forget trying to be PC, I mean I love my curls and all cause they are beautiful but just for once I would like to do all that is mentioned in the above post without the huge hassle! And I'm sorry but even when my hair was all natural it was still hella difficult to deal with! Trying to get a comb thru my hair (even with conditioner and oils) was a one hour ordeal! Now thanks to my handy phytorelaxer , it takes considerably less time.

I know all races have their own little problems but are simple recreational things as much as a hassle for them? I know some of my white and asian friends who can frolick at the beach or the pool swimming, then spend the rest of the entire day out in the sun (no protection) and their hair will literally dry back to its normal position before the swim. You wouldn't even know they were at the beach/pool cause sometimes we'll go out to eat right after our day of swimming and whatnot, and their hair will look all normal and groomed and mine will be a complete departure from its previous state (and trust me its not a pretty sight).

I know this seems silly and trivial but I'm an active person and I yearn for such convenience, I am not afraid to say it!!!

*hoping that dtachi won't get rebuked in the name of blackness today*


girl you bold!