The Motherhood Cliche... In 2019?

[TinyBlu]

...so I have been seeing a guy for a couple of months and he introduced me to his favorite sister last night.

Our dinner conversation was flowing smoothly until the inevitable topic of children came up.

I informed this guy about my LACK of desire to have children early in our interaction, and he said he was fine with it. Apparently, his sister may be a bit challenged by this.

She asked if I had children. When I responded, "No'" she followed it up with THE QUESTION: Do you WANT them (with the proverbial judgmental wrinkle in her brow).

Sadly, I found myself searching for a "politically correct" version of "No." (Incidentally, I HATE that women are still viewed as "selfish" or "less than" if they don't want to be wed and bred). I responded with the cliche "It never happened for me (ummm...purposely), and I resolved that if it didn't happen by age 40, I am OK with not having children..." (YUCK!!!)

Of course that was followed by "There's still time" to which I didn't respond. Then she went on about adoption and other options. While I let her continue her "baby" speech, I left the dinner quite annoyed.

In 2019, why is the "must do" of motherhood still on the list of epitomizing womanhood? Why does a woman not "have it all" until she has the husband, kids AND successful career?

...and why was she so comfortable asking about my uterus? It very well could have been a situation where I was UNABLE to have children and that topic would have been painful. I dunno. I found the whole thing to be uncomfortably invasive, and now I feel the need to revisit the topic with the guy I'm seeing because if that's a true desire for him, this won't work long term...

Just venting I guess...

 

[blessedandfavoured]

...so I have been seeing a guy for a couple of months and he introduced me to his favorite sister last night.

Our dinner conversation was flowing smoothly until the inevitable topic of children came up.

I informed this guy about my LACK of desire to have children early in our interaction, and he said he was fine with it. Apparently, his sister may be a bit challenged by this.

She asked if I had children. When I responded, "No'" she followed it up with THE QUESTION: Do you WANT them (with the proverbial judgmental wrinkle in her brow).

Sadly, I found myself searching for a "politically correct" version of "No." (Incidentally, I HATE that women are still viewed as "selfish" or "less than" if they don't want to be wed and bred). I responded with the cliche "It never happened for me (ummm...purposely), and I resolved that if it didn't happen by age 40, I am OK with not having children..." (YUCK!!!)

Of course that was followed by "There's still time" to which I didn't respond. Then she went on about adoption and other options. While I let her continue her "baby" speech, I left the dinner quite annoyed.

In 2019, why is the "must do" of motherhood still on the list of epitomizing womanhood? Why does a woman not "have it all" until she has the husband, kids AND successful career?

...and why was she so comfortable asking about my uterus? It very well could have been a situation where I was UNABLE to have children and that topic would have been painful. I dunno. I found the whole thing to be uncomfortably invasive, and now I feel the need to revisit the topic with the guy I'm seeing because if that's a true desire for him, this won't work long term...

Just venting I guess...

The bolded - Did she actually say any of this? Might you be projecting a little? Maybe she just wants (more?) nieces and/or nephews...

The bolded and underlined - Maybe she was comfortable asking because you might eventually be family? Even if it turned out to be a painful situation for you, she'd probably have to find out at some point since you might end up marrying her brother...

God speed for your relationship and future!

 

[natural in ATL]

I agree that she didn’t need to ask someone her brother has dated for two months about plans for children. It’s too soon, you just met, and honestly even if you’ve been dating two years I think it’s not her business. She could’ve always asked her brother privately if she somehow couldn’t keep the question to herself. Perhaps he’s told her he’s indifferent about kids and this was her attempt to try and convince him if you’d said you wanted kids.

Additionally I want to add, your phrase “wed and bred” feels offensive to me as a wife and mother. As you said, everyone has the right to their own life choices and by having two children, I definitely haven’t been “bred”.

 

[PrissiSippi]

What did your guy say during this whole situation? Did he protect you? Did he distract his sister? Did he do ANYTHING?

 

[FoxxyLocs]

It was intrusive and it's none of her business. She should have asked her brother (in private) if she wanted to know.

I also hate referring to women who have children as breeders. You can choose not to have children without being disrespectful to people who choose to be parents.

 

[Brwnbeauti]

Since your guy didn’t, you should’ve shut her down. If you continue to date him, you’ll have this conversation again. Even if you told him no before, you opened the door with that “it never happened...” comment.

People expect others to want what they want. A woman who wants/wanted a husband and kids expects others to.
Reminds me of when Dh greataunt asked when we’d become a family. Out of respect for him, I walked off. I told him later. Idk if he checked her but she never asked again.

 

[lesedi]

When she asked if you wanted kids, you could have just said No. Your response made it sound like you did want kids, but that it hadn't happened, so I'm assuming she was trying to be sweet with the "there's still time" comment.

For some women having it all, does include having kids, and that is great. It's also perfectly fine to not want them.

Your wed and bred comment seems just as offensive as what you experienced.

All this to say that you're correct, it is none of her business.

 

[Charmingchick1]

You’d think in this day and age that people would realize that women have so many choices in how to live life. They are all valid. A family can be so many things. I hope that attitudes start to change soon.

 

[Evolving78]

I’m a mother and have been a wife. I’m not offended by your wed and bred comment. I would have been offended by it 12-13 years ago, but getting offending by that would assume something within me that I’m not comfortable with. That’s your opinion OP, and it doesn’t have anything to do with me.
Now as for the guy you are dating, Brother should have checked his sister. So that just a preview of more to come. I would leave him alone.

 

[Ms. Tarabotti]

What did your guy say during this whole situation? Did he protect you? Did he distract his sister? Did he do ANYTHING?

I'm curious also- Did your date tell his sister that is really none of her business?

People shouldn't ask women they don't know if they have children. For all they know, you could have had a miscarriage or trying to come to terms with infertility or just plain do not want children. Why must you be politically correct if you don't want to have children? A No, I don't have children and no, I don't want to have children should suffice. If the other person continues on in pushing children, that's a kind of harassment.

 

[lesedi]

I'm curious also- Did your date tell his sister that is really none of her business?

People shouldn't ask women they don't know if they have children.

I can understand not asking childless women if they want any children, or conversely, not asking why they don't want any... but what's wrong with asking if someone already has kids?

 

[Makenzie]

I can understand not asking childless women if they want any children, or conversely, not asking why they don't want any... but what's wrong with asking if someone already has kids?

What if I wanted kids but could never have them? What if I my only child died very young, or was stillborn? That question can bring up a lot of pain. The asker does not know a persons back story

I never wanted children, and I simply get tired of people asking me this. We live in a world where I'm expected to have kids. When people ask me this they are really assuming I have kids. When I tell them no, I get either the pity looks, or a look of complete surprise. So annoying. Even more annoying is I find myself justifying my decision. I have actively been working on that.

 

[Saludable84]

Her: Do you want to have children?
You: No. I dont see myself having children and I am happy with my decision.

You've answered and justified your decision (even though you dont have to). There should be no follow-up and if there is, do as @Brwnbeauti and politely walk off.

 

[LivingInPeace]

Her: Do you want to have children?
You: No. I don’t.

You've answered. There should be no follow-up and if there is, do as @Brwnbeauti and politely walk off.

Corrected

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I can understand not asking childless women if they want any children, or conversely, not asking why they don't want any... but what's wrong with asking if someone already has kids?

I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with the question but most women will volunteer that they have children within the first 5 minutes of talking to them.

 

[Mai Tai]

I don't understand why you felt you needed to be "politically correct" in expressing how you truly felt. Sounds like your response was based on your own insecurity and not hers. Stand firm and strong in your decision to not have kids!

Her: Do you have children?
You: No <-- politically correct answer

Her: Well...Do you want to have any in the future?
You: No <-- politically correct answer

Her: But...Why wouldn't you....
You: (cuts her off and gets politically incorrect) Girl you sure are invested in the state of my uterus TODAY! I'm actually really comfortable with that decision and am not sure why you would have an objection. Is there a licensed professional you could talk to about that?

 

[ckisland]

I'm 31, have no kids, and I get asked this question all the time by straight up strangers on the street. I actually find it offensive that people would assume that I would have kids with no wedding ring on my finger, or without asking if I'm married first. If 90% of the population didn't have or want kids, then the question would be potentially offensive. Otherwise, I would see it as a perfectly fine question for someone to ask when they're getting to know you.

Unpopular opinion alert.
I get where his sister is coming from. I think people are consciously or subconsciously concerned to lineage and passing on genes. It's perfectly normal to be concerned with whether the male in your family passes on the family name. Just because societies have moved from being collective to being individualistic doesn't mean that the very natural desire to procreate has died for the super majority of the population. People who don't want children, whether they can have them naturally or not, are a small group of outliers comparatively. It shouldn't be surprising that people find it weird and ask questions to why you're not following the natural progression of life for countless generations of human beings .

 

[Saludable84]

Unpopular opinion alert.
I get where his sister is coming from. I think people are consciously or subconsciously concerned to lineage and passing on genes. It's perfectly normal to be concerned with whether the male in your family passes on the family name. Just because societies have moved from being collective to being individualistic doesn't mean that the very natural desire to procreate has died for the super majority of the population. People who don't want children, whether they can have them naturally or not, are a small group of outliers comparatively. It shouldn't be surprising that people find it weird and ask questions to why you're not following the natural progression of life for countless generations of human beings .

While your opinion is valid, there is a time, place and relationship that needs to be established beforehand. Not something you ask someone upon first meeting, especially if it’s not someone you are personally with, and if you do ask and get a response, why press?

I do believe OP should have been more confident with her response, but if I replied no, I don’t want kids, then why go further? And while some people are concerned about lineage, those same people aren’t concerned about matrimony, which she should probably be asking her brother but won’t.

 

[lesedi]

What if I wanted kids but could never have them? What if I my only child died very young, or was stillborn? That question can bring up a lot of pain. The asker does not know a persons back story

I never wanted children, and I simply get tired of people asking me this. We live in a world where I'm expected to have kids. When people ask me this they are really assuming I have kids. When I tell them no, I get either the pity looks, or a look of complete surprise. So annoying. Even more annoying is I find myself justifying my decision. I have actively been working on that.

I mean I get that certain questions may be uncomfortable and I empathise... but often when people ask if you have kids, it's just a conversation-starter. It's when they intrude past that point that it starts to get rude.

When I went through a stage of unemployment I hated the "what do you do" question that would inevitably come up, but the person wasn't rude for asking...they were just trying to get to know me. Same when people ask if I'm married...But I would be silly to expect that someone I'm meeting for the first time wouldn't ask me that. I think those questions will always come up, it's just a case of answering succinctly and honestly and making it clear to the person asking the question that you are not down to discuss it further... If they ignore your wishes, that's when they can get cursed out.

I do agree with @Crackers Phinn though, most parents do volunteer the info anyway

 

[Black Ambrosia]

I don’t think a simple no is politically incorrect but I gather from the post that OP has been down this road before and has seen this conversation get really awkward when the other person doesn’t back down. She was trying to both diffuse the situation and avoid getting the sister’s pity.

I also wanna know what the guy was doing/saying during this exchange.

I don’t think it’s invasive to ask if you have kids but asking if a person wants kids is rude. It’s usually only tolerated when it comes from a future MIL.

 

[LdyKamz]

Rude and intrusive if you ask me. Particularly because this is a first meeting. I wouldn't necessarily balk at the "do you have kids" question but the furrowed brow and follow up question makes things awkward. The fact that she felt entitled to probe further and not expect push back is problematic to me. Whether this woman wants more nieces and nephews is something she discusses with her brother not her brother's date sitting across from her at dinner. The nerve. I don't think OP's answer showed insecurity. I see it more as being polite to her date's family member. You can be secure in your decision and still, in an effort not to offend or ruffle feathers, subject yourself to something you'd rather not. All in the name of the other person's comfort. Most people think in a situation like that they can do and say whatever they want and if they don't like the person's reaction they can give you a bad review to your partner. It's annoying. Based on how this conversation went I suspect this was the easier route. I can only imagine her stank face if OP had given her a flat no. Further, a person can't possibly think they are being nice by saying "you still have time" and suggesting adoption. It's patronizing and silly. Like a full grown 40 year old woman hasn't thought of this. At this point though OP, you were nice already. If it comes up again you'll need to shut it down. Or like you said discuss once more with your guy.

 

[lesedi]

Rude and intrusive if you ask me. Particularly because this is a first meeting. I wouldn't necessarily balk at the "do you have kids" question but the furrowed brow and follow up question makes things awkward. The fact that she felt entitled to probe further and not expect push back is problematic to me. Whether this woman wants more nieces and nephews is something she discusses with her brother not her brother's date sitting across from her at dinner. The nerve. I don't think OP's answer showed insecurity. I see it more as being polite to her date's family member. You can be secure in your decision and still, in an effort not to offend or ruffle feathers, subject yourself to something you'd rather not. All in the name of the other person's comfort. Most people think in a situation like that they can do and say whatever they want and if they don't like the person's reaction they can give you a bad review to your partner. It's annoying. Based on how this conversation went I suspect this was the easier route. I can only imagine her stank face if OP had given her a flat no. Further, a person can't possibly think they are being nice by saying "you still have time" and suggesting adoption. It's patronizing and silly. Like a full grown 40 year old woman hasn't thought of this. At this point though OP, you were nice already. If it comes up again you'll need to shut it down. Or like you said discuss once more with your guy.

I think after reading this post that I need to acknowledge that I will never truly or fully understand the sensitivity of this issue given that
a) I always wanted children
and....
b) I have a child already

So, in all honesty I don't truly get it, but I do respect how it may be annoying or offensive for those not in my position.

 

[LdyKamz]

I think after reading this post that I need to acknowledge that I will never truly or fully understand the sensitivity of this issue given that
a) I always wanted children
and....
b) I have a child already

So, in all honesty I don't truly get it, but I do respect how it may be annoying or offensive for those not in my position.

Right and I think that's really it. It's nothing to discuss it and give easy answers when you are on the "right" side of the conversation. But constantly having to defend your choice to do the opposite of what most people are doing gets old. Just like mothers get offended when people ask why they have so many or only one child/ren? That doesn't offend me and feels like an ok question to ask to me whereas a mother might feel like the person is implying she made the wrong decision. I can understand that. That's all it comes down to in any situation. A person questioning a conscious choice you've made for yourself and you having to convince them you made the right one. Not cool on either side.

 

[Ms. Tarabotti]

I can understand not asking childless women if they want any children, or conversely, not asking why they don't want any... but what's wrong with asking if someone already has kids?

I think after reading this post that I need to acknowledge that I will never truly or fully understand the sensitivity of this issue given that
a) I always wanted children
and....
b) I have a child already

So, in all honesty I don't truly get it, but I do respect how it may be annoying or offensive for those not in my position.

I consider it to be a strange question to ask a siblings date the first time that you meet them. Didn't you talk to your sibling before hand to get the low down on his date (so, what's she like and so on)? I tend not to ask women if they have children unless they bring the children up and most parents usually do talk about their children. It's an iffy topic for some women- do you want them to recount years of failed fertility treatments or their latest miscarriage? Do you want to hear how they had a child but they died because of SIDS or they drowned at the beach? Unless you know the history, I would be wary of asking strangers (even though she is the brothers girl friend, she is still a stranger to the sister) about anything personal like that at a first meeting.

Or maybe they never ever wanted children and are tired of the constant questions and insinuations that they will change their minds or could adopt.

 

[TinyBlu]

What did your guy say during this whole situation? Did he protect you? Did he distract his sister? Did he do ANYTHING?

No, he kinda seemed detached from the whole situation. I asked him about it later (specifically if he had actually shared a desire to have children with her or if she was asking these questions for her own curiosity).

He confirmed that he is completely OK with not having children and I asked him to be sure, because there is no chance that I'm changing my mind.

I really like him and think he deserves to have children if that is his desire (although he might want to lower the age of his dating pool), so if we differed there, I would amicably part ways with him.

 

[TinyBlu]

My apologies on the "wed and bred" thing. No disrespect intended.

 

[PrissiSippi]

No, he kinda seemed detached from the whole situation. I asked him about it later (specifically if he had actually shared a desire to have children with her or if she was asking these questions for her own curiosity).

He confirmed that he is completely OK with not having children and I asked him to be sure, because there is no chance that I'm changing my mind.

I really like him and think he deserves to have children if that is his desire (although he might want to lower the age of his dating pool), so if we differed there, I would amicably part ways with him.

I would pay attention to his actions. Certain stuff doesn't change. If you desire a protector....run in the direction where you are protected.

 

[TinyBlu]

What if I wanted kids but could never have them? What if I my only child died very young, or was stillborn? That question can bring up a lot of pain. The asker does not know a persons back story

I never wanted children, and I simply get tired of people asking me this. We live in a world where I'm expected to have kids. When people ask me this they are really assuming I have kids. When I tell them no, I get either the pity looks, or a look of complete surprise. So annoying. Even more annoying is I find myself justifying my decision. I have actively been working on that.

... the bolded... EXACTLY! It was just intrusive all around...

... and we're in the same boat. I've gotten the side eye so much from women, or all out rudeness from men (I had a thread about it not too long ago), or somehow been kicked out of some secret "club" when I've been honest about it, so I end up justifying it then feeling badly that I couldn't just give a solid No.

In this day and age, I find it disconcerting that there is still that underlying expectation for motherhood. With medical interventions and such focus being placed on celebrity older moms (Halle Berry, Janet Jackson) the pressure has shifted from becoming a mom when you're young to challenging nature and reproducing at advanced ages which, as I've personally witnessed from friends, can be taxing, heartbreaking, expensive and NOT FUN.

It's a me thing. I need to be comfortable and strong in my resolve not to have children... just wish "society" would cut the Childless by Choice a little more of a break.

 

[TinyBlu]

I don’t think a simple no is politically incorrect but I gather from the post that OP has been down this road before and has seen this conversation get really awkward when the other person doesn’t back down. She was trying to both diffuse the situation and avoid getting the sister’s pity.

I also wanna know what the guy was doing/saying during this exchange.

I don’t think it’s invasive to ask if you have kids but asking if a person wants kids is rude. It’s usually only tolerated when it comes from a future MIL.

Yes, I have been down the road more times than I'd like to recount. I didn't think the initial "Do you have children" comment was rude, but the conversation should have stopped there (and I could / should have shut it down).

...since Mr. Man became mute during the whole exchange,I felt a bit bombarded. This is his favorite sister, so I didn't want to be rude (she didn't seem to have a problem with it)

 

[TinyBlu]

I'm 31, have no kids, and I get asked this question all the time by straight up strangers on the street. I actually find it offensive that people would assume that I would have kids with no wedding ring on my finger, or without asking if I'm married first. If 90% of the population didn't have or want kids, then the question would be potentially offensive. Otherwise, I would see it as a perfectly fine question for someone to ask when they're getting to know you.

Unpopular opinion alert.
I get where his sister is coming from. I think people are consciously or subconsciously concerned to lineage and passing on genes. It's perfectly normal to be concerned with whether the male in your family passes on the family name. Just because societies have moved from being collective to being individualistic doesn't mean that the very natural desire to procreate has died for the super majority of the population. People who don't want children, whether they can have them naturally or not, are a small group of outliers comparatively. It shouldn't be surprising that people find it weird and ask questions to why you're not following the natural progression of life for countless generations of human beings .

...the dialogue will change if you exit the 30's childless...ijs