The Argument Of Child Support

B_Phlyy said:
I want to go to this fairytale land some men have been to where growing children are eating, being clothed and sheltered for free. Child support barely covers one of those things. Don't want to pay? Don't make a baby. Baby already here and you still don't want to pay? Take the baby with you and you'll know exactly where the money went.
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But most men don't want the child either, which is why the mother is the primary parent and they still complain. They just want to bust a nut freely with no consequences.
 
The problem isn't the amount of money it's that the consequences aren't enforced. Men respond to consequences.

I know many people asked me about my SMBC decisIon, in order not to derail a thread, you can Message me.
 
I'm going to ask someone I know about this...he made some good points that he feels most men miss when it comes to this stuff. If the shoe was reversed and I had to pay support to someone who wasn't working on under employed I'd want receipts too though...ain't gonna lie.

Just briefly: His point is that you 'hired' the person so how she lives her life should be of no surprise to you today and if is it's too late. If you were still together, she would be doing the same things and you wouldn't have a problem with it. But now that you are no longer part of the household, the woman has to be somebody else? He believes that all the court does is say that IF you were still together, you would be living a certain lifestyle and now we are demanding that you continue to do that, you cannot run away from that.
 
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Fine 4s said:
I'm going to ask someone I know about this...he made some good points that he feels most men miss when it comes to this stuff. If the shoe was reversed and I had to pay support to someone who wasn't working on under employed I'd want receipts too though...ain't gonna lie.

Just briefly: His point is that you 'hired' the person so how she lives her life should be of no surprise to you today and if is it's too late. If you were still together, she would be doing the same things and you wouldn't have a problem with it. But now that you are no longer part of the household, the woman has to be somebody else? He believes that all the court does is say that IF you were still together, you would be living a certain lifestyle and now we are demanding that you continue to do that, you cannot run away from that.
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That's what I tried to tell my friend and he was like, "Nah... she need to work."

She wasn't the type of person to work before, but I guess she looked so good it didn't even matter.

I believe he's the type of guy to believe he is the prize though, so... there's that lol
 
Well since he knows how it goes down, let this make him pick the mother of his child very carefully because no matter how much he may not like it, IT WILL go down that way.
You can't change his feelings about it so at the very least let's hope that he makes good decisions....
 
swtpea said:
I have several issues with how child support is set up in most states, but I don't have an issue with the theory or concept behind child support. I think both parent share a financial responsibility for the child.

One thing I've never understood is why there isn't a standard child support rate per child. The needs of a child don't change per a parent's income, nor change as a man has more children. The way it is currently set up, a man pays a percentage of his gross income, but the percentage (at least in my state) decreases as the man has more kids. For instance, first kid is 30%, second is 25%, third plus is 20%, I believe. So the 3rd child should receive less support because of birth order? That's illogical.

As far as basing it off a man's income, that also seems inaccurate. I know some men who make pennies and pay $200/month in child support. Yes, $200. That is crazy. Regardless of income, the expense of raising a child doesn't change. I think the child support should be a standard amount, like $1,500/month (I don't have a kid so I'm not sure how reasonable this amount is). There are plenty of studies that show the average cost of raising a child. I think it should be based off that.

Then, to address the OP friend's point, having a set value would also address situations where women get windfalls in child support, which essentially becomes baby mama support, shopping habit support, etc...To account for the lifestyle that a child would assume if they lived in a dual income household, it would be reasonable to make the non custodial parent pay the set amount plus a percentage, like 5-10% of gross income , in addition to that set amount.

Having set child support amounts would make men and women think twice, in my non-child having opinion lol.
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Yeah, not all states do the lessened rate for each additional child. But I think the idea is that as children get older their expenses increase. Which makes sense...cuz moving my kid from the kids to the girls section of the store...my pockets felt that! So I can see both sides.

It would really only make sense to have a standard CS rate if everyone made the same amount of income. You saying $1500 like that's not a tons of men's whole monthly income! lol

But the calculations for CS (at least in my state) make sense. The courts put both parents incomes together (as if they were in one household), determine what percentage of the whole they contribute, then divide it by 3 (mom, dad, kid) and then divide the kids amount according to mom/dads assigned percentages. So if dad makes $1000/mo and mom makes $600, then they would be using $1600/mo to take care of their household (Dad contributing 62% and mom 38%). $1600/ 3 people = $533 for each household member. So dad's monthly support obligation would be 62% of that $533, which is $330, and if mom paid CS her obligation would be 38% which is $202.

It takes into consideration how much each person makes. Can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
 
I hate how so many BM act like they are allergic to CS. It's that horrible idea that BW need to earn their keep while other women deserve to be taken care of.

I always encourage moms to get CS orders. There is no nobility in struggling on your own, and the child shouldn't be forced to suffer due to moms pride, exhaustion, desire to be "done" with dad etc.

They have a right to be supported by both parents and if the mom doesn't "need" the money then put it in a savings account for the child. I promise you the child will thank you later.

That is one of the first things I find out when I'm dating a guy.
HOW are you taking care of your kid(s)? Are you resentful? Do you recognize the need to support them financially and not just "when she tell me they need something"? Do you still give them the extra stuff like bday gifts and random fun stuff? Or do you think that because you pay CS that absolves you from any further investment?

I've come into contact with men who straight quit their jobs repeatedly just so they won't have to pay. So trife.
 
CoilyFields said:
I hate how so many BM act like they are allergic to CS. It's that horrible idea that BW need to earn their keep while other women deserve to be taken care of.

I always encourage moms to get CS orders. There is no nobility in struggling on your own, and the child shouldn't be forced to suffer due to moms pride, exhaustion, desire to be "done" with dad etc.

They have a right to be supported by both parents and if the mom doesn't "need" the money then put it in a savings account for the child. I promise you the child will thank you later.

That is one of the first things I find out when I'm dating a guy.
HOW are you taking care of your kid(s)? Are you resentful? Do you recognize the need to support them financially and not just "when she tell me they need something"? Do you still give them the extra stuff like bday gifts and random fun stuff? Or do you think that because you pay CS that absolves you from any further investment?

I've come into contact with men who straight quit their jobs repeatedly just so they won't have to pay. So trife.
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Yes to all this. That being said I feel a little different about the bold but keep in mind I am coming from a Canadian perspective. Child support is worthwhile for most but not all. I tell people that I know that if you are dealing with someone that has little assets and the child support calculation will not be a significant amount (less than $100) and you know that you are dealing with someone that will put you through hell to get it. Then stay out of the court, because those that enforce child support orders cannot guarantee payment due to what you have said below and the time as well as the money you will spend going in and out of court is not worthwhile. But people let their anger/resentment/etc...blind them from doing a cost-benefit analysis.

There is a substantial amount of people who have no business going to court, not because the father should not shoulder his financial obligations because what you are going to receive isn't worth the headache that you will go through to get it unless he has real assets. In situations, like this I would push for joint custody, and have the other parent being responsible for a specific expense such as per c/o (school costs, etc...) paid upfront.

As for men not liking child support, well there are several reasons for this. There are men who don't see their children (who want to...) but are told pay not knowing how they are care for...
I think we underestimate how vindictive we can be as women when it comes to divorce/break-up, etc...

To reduce every man who does not want to pay child support to a deadbeat, is overly simplistic and not a complete reflection of reality. Paying child support does not mean that you are caring for your children it just means that you are abiding by a court order. There are men who have been paying the mother's of their child over many years who found out that the mothers never declared it to the child support office and come to find out that after we apply several enforcement on them which limits their ability to make an income.

We have a tendency to equate child support to taking care of your child.What of children whose child support is paid but the father never sees them...whether intentionally or not? My perspective on this has totally changed now that I am inside.

Many mothers who are recipient tell me all the time that we are representing them and I remind them all the time no we are not, we are enforcing a c/o for the benefit of the child. Not you...we have to change the conversation on what child support is about.
 
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larry3344 said:
...

. There are men who have been paying the mother's of their child over many years who found out that the mothers never declared it to the child support office and come to find out that after we apply several enforcement on them which limits their ability to make an income.

.
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They should have been keeping records. I hear what you're saying but I feel like there are a lot of men who like to push off responsibility.

A paper trail would have covered their butts
 
larry3344 said:
Yes to all this. That being said I feel a little different about the bold but keep in mind I am coming from a Canadian perspective. Child support is worthwhile for most but not all. I tell people that I know that if you are dealing with someone that has little assets and the child support calculation will not be a significant amount (less than $100) and you know that you are dealing with someone that will put you through hell to get it. Then stay out of the court, because those that enforce child support orders cannot guarantee payment due to what you have said below and the time as well as the money you will spend going in and out of court is not worthwhile. But people let their anger/resentment/etc...blind them from doing a cost-benefit analysis.

There is a substantial amount of people who have no business going to court, not because the father should not shoulder his financial obligations because what you are going to receive isn't worth the headache that you will go through to get it unless he has real assets. In situations, like this I would push for joint custody, and have the other parent being responsible for a specific expense such as per c/o (school costs, etc...) paid upfront.

As for men not liking child support, well there are several reasons for this. There are men who don't see their children (who want to...) but are told pay not knowing how they are care for...
I think we underestimate how vindictive we can be as women when it comes to divorce/break-up, etc...

To reduce every man who does not want to pay child support to a deadbeat, is overly simplistic and not a complete reflection of reality. Paying child support does not mean that you are caring for your children it just means that you are abiding by a court order. There are men who have been paying the mother's of their child over many years who found out that the mothers never declared it to the child support office and come to find out that after we apply several enforcement on them which limits their ability to make an income.

We have a tendency to equate child support to taking care of your child.What of children whose child support is paid but the father never sees them...whether intentionally or not? My perspective on this has totally changed now that I am inside.

Many mothers who are recipient tell me all the time that we are representing them and I remind them all the time no we are not, we are enforcing a c/o for the benefit of the child. Not you...we have to change the conversation on what child support is about.
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Do you work CS in Canada or the US?

That may be where the perspectives diverge. As far as I know (in the 3 states I've lived in), CS is a free service. A parent doesn't have to pay the courts to get CS. Its as simple as completing an online application. And if the mom is on TANF the state automatically looks for dad to pay them back and then puts him on CS.

I get where you're going with the idea of dividing expenses/paying up front, but the problem is then you are dependent on the other persons "honor" to do their portion...in-full...on-time...consistently, versus CS where they have no choice or chance for excuses. My cousin did the "I just wanna get it over with" in her divorce and all she's gotten from her kids dad are broken promises and dust. And honestly, most americans have very little financial discipline (hence our high debt and low savings-and why Uncle Sam likes his off the top) so there will always be a "need" for dad to keep all his paycheck, and his conscience is soothed because he knows the child will still be taken care of by mom.

But CS protects men as well. Even if they don't want it to come out of their checks they can send in payments and receipts to the courts that are credited to their balance. And they can get court ordered visitation.

CS is the financial obligation of each parent. I am in no way equating it with emotional care or physical presence. All of those are important. But the only one that is enforceable by law is CS.
 
ladysaraii said:
They should have been keeping records. I hear what you're saying but I feel like there are a lot of men who like to push off responsibility.

A paper trail would have covered their butts
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I agree...but I am explaining some of the scenarios that make men weary of child support.
 
Even if the father doesn't have the money now he could later and they will come for him to get back support. I think it is worth it for every woman to pursue for the benefit of their child. My coworkers ex-husband skipped out on his child support for his kids for 10+ years, but his ex-girlfriend reported him to my coworker when they broke up, even gave the address of his workplace in another city. He was out living a good life with no responsibility until that call. After she obtained that information, CS made him pay my coworker $2000/month taken directly from his check. It was worth the pursuit for the benefit of her kids. If there is no responsibility then there is no reason for the man to be responsible for his actions or his offspring and that sets a really bad example.
 
larry3344 said:
I agree...but I am explaining some of the scenarios that make men weary of child support.
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Those scenarios are the exceptions. People who don't want to pay will always tell you about a cousin's friend's brother that....

Most men that dont pay just dont pau jump the state border work under the table switch jobs ect.

I dont want to argue about it but I know plenty of single mothers divorced and otherwise whose children's fathers dont pay their support. Its sad

What is sadder is the men almost all stay with a new woman. Who are these women dating deadbeats. I cant even acknowledge your presence if you choose to abandon your kids. And what do you think will happen of he gets the next woman pregnant?
 
Bun Mistress said:
Those scenarios are the exceptions. People who don't want to pay will always tell you about a cousin's friend's brother that....

Most men that dont pay just dont pau jump the state border work under the table switch jobs ect.

I dont want to argue about it but I know plenty of single mothers divorced and otherwise whose children's fathers dont pay their support. Its sad

What is sadder is the men almost all stay with a new woman. Who are these women dating deadbeats. I cant even acknowledge your presence if you choose to abandon your kids. And what do you think will happen of he gets the next woman pregnant?
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A guy was arguing about having to pay $25 a month. Lives with his girlfriend and she pays all of the bills. Btw he is YT.
 
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