Spinny: What's YOUR definition of natural?

[~Sparklingflame~]

Whats SSK?

Can you tell Im hardly ever in the HF???

 

[Americka]

Whats SSK?

Can you tell Im hardly ever in the HF???

Single Strand Knots

There are some fab pics of them in mdwezi's post from another thread.

 

[FlawedBeauty]

im goin with no relaxer and thats it. if you damage your hair via heat (heat train) its still not been altered by chemicals and is in its natural state, it's just damaged and natural. i mean we wouldn't say a white lady does not have natural hair because she has highlights, its just not her natrual color. it hasnt altered the composition of her hair to make it anymore curly or straight by coloring.

 

[dancinstallion]

We aren't categorizing or dividing.This isn't about a division this is about basic word definition and this would apply to anyone across the board.

What ppl are saying doesn't make any sense. Think about the words heat and train. How can you say heat trained hair is natural when the very name of what your doing has the word "training" in it.

Nature needs no help in doing what it does. It does not need training of any kind. So when we, humans make a decision that we want something different than what our body is naturally producing without any help from us, then you can't call that natural anymore.

Sorry

Wow it is like a light bulb moment. I get it. Like a natural dancer or painter doesn't have to be trained to do art. And the one that is trained is no longer natural, or naturally doesn't know how to dance or paint. So you can't compare something that is trained to something that has it naturally? lol I get it so I agree. I had to put it in my own terms for better understanding. Heat trained is not natural, it is in a catergory of its own.

 

[fletches]

To keep something as close to its natural state as possible
Straight hair not being natural to black people
---

If a white women with naturally straight hair used hot appliances to put curls in her hair, and it got damaged overtime (but just got thinner or something because it couldnt get straightened any further) would she still be natural?

If so, that would almost mean black people are the only ones that once their natural hair gets damaged because of heat, they arent natural anymore.

If you cant say about every hair type that heat damaged hair equals hair thats not natural, i dont think it should be a rule.

I think that curly hair is different than straight hair, and because of that, when its damaged from heat, it reacts different than straight hair and looses it curl sometimes.

But to me its still just a form of damage where one would have to cut it off and regrow their hair if they wanted healthy hair.

I think you would also have to say if this is true that damaged hair equals non natural hair, and I dont think thats correct either.

If a white women with naturally straight hair used hot appliances to put curls in her hair, and it got damaged overtime (but just got thinner or something because it couldnt get straightened any further) would she still be natural?

No she would not be natural. Did the hair grow out of her scalp thin? Some outside element is the cause of that. If someone asked her "Is your hair naturally thin", what would she say?

 

[dancinstallion]

My WHOLE LIFE before joining the hair boards, when people talked about natural hair to me, they were talking about weave-free hair. That's why I find "naturals" who wear sew-in weaves & wigs daily to be an interesting bunch. I would prefer to relax my hair bone-straight than to be a slave to fake hair.
.

Sometimes people wear weaves and wigs for the versatility of a new style and or hair color of the wig/weave or the length. My hair is bsl and I wear a wig/weave when I want a short hair do. I wouldn't dare cut my hair just to wear a short look for a week then have to grow it back. It is just versatile. No one is claiming the wig/weave to be their real hair(some might) but alot of people do it for protective styling also. Some people's hair is short and one day they want long hair so they wear a weave. They have curly and afro weaves also so a relaxer wouldn't help to get that look.

 

[Cisselette]

Well, there's opinion and there's fact.

Fact: 1+1 = 2

1+1= 2 even if Ashley Mcleland, Aminata Camara or Shimmen Momosuke thinks, wants, believes, wishes, estimates, hopes, pretends, lies, guesses, insists, prefers, chooses, argues, prays or imagines it equals anything else.

1+1= 2 during King Tutankhamen's brief reign, 14 seconds ago and 561 million years from today.

1+1= 2 whether I'm counting, or the Dalai Lama or the great granddaughter of a camerounese farmer who hasn't been born yet.

1+1= 2 in Nagoya, Accra, Atlanta, Calcutta, Bogota or right here in Toronto.

Of course nobody's forced to accept a fact or accept it as a fact. That's why we have opinions and they can be based on anything, from reality to individual perception.

We don't have to agree with other people's opinions and that's called freedom. Thank God.

My opinion: natural hair is hair that has not been permanently altered from its original form (the way nature intended it) in any way.



** Exits thread**

 

[fletches]

so why exactly is heat trained hair not just damaged natural hair? because that's what it is. but damaging something doesn't make it 'unnatural' in the definition of hair.

some people really like to just be right...

Sigh, because you had to use heat and you had to train it to be straight.
How can it be damaged natural hair, when the hair that comes out of your scalp is curly. Does the new growth match the heat trained hair or do you have to do something to make the new growth (hair coming out of the scalp) match the rest of the hair? If heat trained hair is natural, why is the hair coming out of the scalp not straight too. When you wash this heat trained hair, will it match the new growth?

Everybody knows black folks (for the most part) have kinky or curly hair. Nobody believes black folks hair grows out of their scalp straighterplexed This is really basic.

Wow it is like a light bulb moment. I get it. Like a natural dancer or painter doesn't have to be trained to do art. And the one that is trained is no longer natural, or naturally doesn't know how to dance or paint. So you can't compare something that is trained to something that has it naturally? lol I get it so I agree. I had to put it in my own terms for better understanding. Heat trained is not natural, it is in a catergory of its own.

I think you might have it. I think I'll just agree with the last sentence.

 

[dancinstallion]

So ummm......why do it that way then? Seems illogical to me. May as well go ahead and relax it.
Thanks for answering.

Some people heat train because it is easier than putting a relaxer on your hair and risking chemical burns to the scalp. Relaxed heads still flat iron their hair. So heat trained finds it easier to just skip relaxer and just flat iron. once a month or more often. A friend flat ironed her hair once a month for years and now her hair is permanetly straight.

3b/c

There was a thread on here started by Flowerhair I believe. Many type 3s cannot go bone straight with a relaxer.

My 4c hair couldn't get bone straight with a sodium or calcium hydroxide relaxer. It would just loosen my curl pattern. Everyone still thought I needed a relaxer when I already had one.

Wow, I don't think its anything to look down on. Natural is not some exclusive club or some I'm better than you thing. At least not to meerplexed

Yes there is another hair board that looks down on putting heat in your hair. Also There is a salon in Houston that specializes in natural hair and they won't press/flat iron or do anything to hair to make it straght.

Sigh, because you had to use heat and you had to train it to be straight.
How can it be damaged natural hair, when the hair that comes out of your scalp is curly. Does the new growth match the heat trained hair or do you have to do something to make the new growth (hair coming out of the scalp) match the rest of the hair? If heat trained hair is natural, why is the hair coming out of the scalp not straight too. When you wash this heat trained hair, will it match the new growth?

No you would have to touch it up, just like with a relaxer or with color. So in a sense anytime you have to do a touch up to make the new growth match the rest of the hair is not natural.

 

[Kneechay]

I didn't say it WAS NOT subjective. I said it should not be. Based on the definition of the word natural, that would include anything that permanently altered the curl pattern of your hair.

When I stated earlier that this ALL was subjective, I was debated against that it 'shouldn't be' but my point was to state more of a truism, that it in fact IS, not whether or not it should or shouldn't--evident in the way this thread progressed. You asked 'how can you argue what the word 'natural' means?' --well, here you have it. In all 4 of its glorious pages.

Also, I disagree that the debate about what is natural and what isn't will regress the 'movement', I dont think it will affect it at all. People will just go about doing what they would usually do and deem it natural if they want to. Who am I or anyone else to dictate someone else's head of hair?

My WHOLE LIFE before joining the hair boards, when people talked about natural hair to me, they were talking about weave-free hair. That's why I find "naturals" who wear sew-in weaves & wigs daily to be an interesting bunch. I would prefer to relax my hair bone-straight than to be a slave to fake hair.

Now this, I felt is kind of presumptuous, bolded. "Interesting bunch", meaning people who you think shouldn't categorize themselves as natural? For you to feel that way, you're making assumptions:
-why they went natural
-and possibly that they feel they belong to some 'exclusive group'

Not everyone who goes natural does it to be 'conscious'. Some do it because of allergies, cosmetic reasons, etc. Does it make her less natural? Now mindsets for going natural are thrown into the myriads of technicalities?

Like Bint Yusef who said earlier that relaxers didnt work for her hair. Let's say she wanted straight hair though, and resorted to weaves to achieve it. So she braids up her hair and gets a sew in all the time, it makes her 'not' natural? Her own hair texture or state isn't really being altered.

No one's gonna agree, but it would be great if we tried to not assume all naturals are on this high horse about not being relaxed. I think this is the core of why there are so many differing views on this topic.

 

[BlackMasterPiece]

The BlackMasterPiece Definition:

Natural hair: hair that has not been chemically altered.

Natural Hair Mentality:

An individual that does not seek ways to change their texture and loves their god-given texture.

Nuances:

I think color is perfectly fine and still qualifies you as a natural

I loooove my kinky looks just as much as I love my occasional pin straight presses and my hair always reverts fully into a round coily fro. Heat is my friend, my hair handles high heat beautifully and the use of it has aided in retention so I clearly don't take issue whatsoever with the regular use of heat.

There is a definite grey area with the subset of women that are strictly straightened naturals and cringe at the sight of so much as a wave. I suppose they're natural but they haven't made the mental transition....the same goes for women that are natural under their weaves and straight/wavy braids but will never show their real hair out of shame...they'e kinda natural....but its almost like they should be given a separate title like unrelaxed lol because natural just isn't a word I would ascribe to them.

I think (not all, but) many women set themselves up for failure by transitioning to their natural hair with an Asian Type 1 weave....to me its somewhat counter-intuitive. You're going from chemically processed straight hair, to your natural kinky hair. You need to have a period in which you become acclimated to your coils. When you take the weave down you'll go from 0 to 60, there is going to be a huuuuge disparity between the hair you've been rocking and your own. I feel continuing to wear straight hair often stymies the progression of the mental transition....at least do a curly, kinky or tightly wavy weave.

There is this youtuber girl that transitioned with nothing but straight weaves. She got a little length, BC'd and clearly still has serious complexes about being a 4b so she defaults to her type 1 weaves like 90% of the time and when her hair is out you witness her entire demeanor changing for the worse. I feel the mental transition will go much smoother if you at least begin to picture yourself with big hair when you do PS styles....JMHO

 

[SummerSolstice]

im not reading thru this thread, but in reference to the scientific definition in my text book, natural hair is unprocessed by chemicals, this does not include color
virgin hair is completely untouched... no heat damage, no color. BKT hair is still considered virgin hair by the board of cosmetology b/c it is not a permanent process, it is a conditioner. It becomes permanent when the stylist does it wrong and there is heat damage. i just asked

 

[SummerSolstice]

Why we gotta be interesting for a straight weave tho? I think its more interesting when my natural sistas walk outta the house non presentable. I think if you look great then what is the point? being natural or having long hair doesn't make your hair better than other people's, its a way to wear your hair. Its dead protein. I agree with everything quoted

When I stated earlier that this ALL was subjective, I was debated against that it 'shouldn't be' but my point was to state more of a truism, that it in fact IS, not whether or not it should or shouldn't--evident in the way this thread progressed. You asked 'how can you argue what the word 'natural' means?' --well, here you have it. In all 4 of its glorious pages.

Also, I disagree that the debate about what is natural and what isn't will regress the 'movement', I dont think it will affect it at all. People will just go about doing what they would usually do and deem it natural if they want to. Who am I or anyone else to dictate someone else's head of hair?




Now this, I felt is kind of presumptuous, bolded. "Interesting bunch", meaning people who you think shouldn't categorize themselves as natural? For you to feel that way, you're making assumptions:
-why they went natural
-and possibly that they feel they belong to some 'exclusive group'

Not everyone who goes natural does it to be 'conscious'. Some do it because of allergies, cosmetic reasons, etc. Does it make her less natural? Now mindsets for going natural are thrown into the myriads of technicalities?

Like Bint Yusef who said earlier that relaxers didnt work for her hair. Let's say she wanted straight hair though, and resorted to weaves to achieve it. So she braids up her hair and gets a sew in all the time, it makes her 'not' natural? Her own hair texture or state isn't really being altered.

No one's gonna agree, but it would be great if we tried to not assume all naturals are on this high horse about not being relaxed. I think this is the core of why there are so many differing views on this topic.

 

[SummerSolstice]

The BlackMasterPiece Definition:

Natural hair: hair that has not been chemically altered.

Natural Hair Mentality:

An individual that does not seek ways to change their texture and loves their god-given texture.

Nuances:

I think color is perfectly fine and still qualifies you as a natural

I loooove my kinky looks just as much as I love my occasional pin straight presses and my hair always reverts fully into a round coily fro. Heat is my friend, my hair handles high heat beautifully and the use of it has aided in retention so I clearly don't take issue whatsoever with the regular use of heat.

There is a definite grey area with the subset of women that are strictly straightened naturals and cringe at the sight of so much as a wave. I suppose they're natural but they haven't made the mental transition....the same goes for women that are natural under their weaves and straight/wavy braids but will never show their real hair out of shame...they'e kinda natural....but its almost like they should be given a separate title like unrelaxed lol because natural just isn't a word I would ascribe to them.

I think (not all, but) many women set themselves up for failure by transitioning to their natural hair with an Asian Type 1 weave....to me its somewhat counter-intuitive. You're going from chemically processed straight hair, to your natural kinky hair. You need to have a period in which you become acclimated to your coils. When you take the weave down you'll go from 0 to 60, there is going to be a huuuuge disparity between the hair you've been rocking and your own. I feel continuing to wear straight hair often stymies the progression of the mental transition....at least do a curly, kinky or tightly wavy weave.

There is this youtuber girl that transitioned with nothing but straight weaves. She got a little length, BC'd and clearly still has serious complexes about being a 4b so she defaults to her type 1 weaves like 90% of the time and when her hair is out you witness her entire demeanor changing for the worse. I feel the mental transition will go much smoother if you at least begin to picture yourself with big hair when you do PS styles....JMHO

I respect your opinion but maybe home girl just needed a change. Not everyone has a psychological issue. Maybe this girl does but we don't even know her. Theres no set rules on how and why to wear a weave. Straight hair is fun for some people. i dont think there is any set mentality either. But you did say this was your definition...
anyways tho ive been natural for my whole life and i have worn color, straight, and everything and the mentality i shoot for now and professionally is the healthiest mentality... the one where the person is satisfied with their outward appearance. It really doesn't matter what other people think IMO

 

[africanviolet92]

IMO, the absence of relaxer, texturizer or other process that permanently changes hair structure = natural

 

[me-T]

curls/coils etc that aren't permanently altered by chemicals (relaxers, perms, texturizers and the like)
bkt and heat training i consider natural hair with an asterisk
i don't count color 'cause it's just changing the look, not the texture

 

[fluffylocks]

If a white women with naturally straight hair used hot appliances to put curls in her hair, and it got damaged overtime (but just got thinner or something because it couldnt get straightened any further) would she still be natural?

No she would not be natural. Did the hair grow out of her scalp thin? Some outside element is the cause of that. If someone asked her "Is your hair naturally thin", what would she say?

If someone asks the white women with heat damaged hair are you natural, thats different from asking is your hair naturally thin. (to me) Unless your saying when someone asks about you being natural, they are asking about the appearence of your hair specifically like the amount of curls, how thick or thin it is, the texture..


I think theres a difference between natural hair-

And a hair/body thats been only under natural conditions and are both healthy so the hair is in its purest natural state.

Because something like stress or medicine could make the same white ladies hair thin, or a poor diet- So it would seem like an unhealthy person thats hair has been affected from it would have to say they dont have natural hair when you ask them about it from looking at the appearance of it...or even a person that hasnt used all natural products and there hair has bennifited or suffered from it.

Im wondering how big of a change does there have to be to the hair in order to say the hair isnt natural anymore...as soon as its dramatic enough to tell? Because alot of these things start happening before you can even see it.

 

[fletches]

If someone asks the white women with heat damaged hair are you natural, thats different from asking is your hair naturally thin. (to me) Unless your saying when someone asks about you being natural, they are asking about the appearence of your hair specifically like the amount of curls, how thick or thin it is, the texture..


I think theres a difference between natural hair-

And a hair/body thats been only under natural conditions and are both healthy so the hair is in its purest natural state.

Because something like stress or medicine could make the same white ladies hair thin, or a poor diet- So it would seem like an unhealthy person thats hair has been affected from it would have to say they dont have natural hair when you ask them about it from looking at the appearance of it...or even a person that hasnt used all natural products and there hair has bennifited or suffered from it.

Im wondering how big of a change does there have to be to the hair in order to say the hair isnt natural anymore...as soon as its dramatic enough to tell? Because alot of these things start happening before you can even see it.

Let's keep it simple. The hair wants to grow out of your scalp curly/kinky. You really don't have any control over that, it's already pre-determined that you will have xyz texture of hair. That is natural. Now if you want to change what the body is naturally inclined to do, how can that be natural? No matter what method you use to change it, the fact is that you're changing it & had you not stepped in & changed the hair your hair would be kinky or curly.

And we can't reasonbly put the same scenarios to different races b/c we don't all have the same type of hair. So, it's common knowledge that most black ppl have kinky or curly hair or something to that degree. So if this white woman already has straight hair naturally it really wouldn't make any sense to ask her if it's natural. In this instance I would be inclined to say heat damaged natural would be more appropriate.

Now let's say she has naturally straight hair & decides to put a perm in it to make it curly. If we asked her if her hair is natural, she would not be able to say yes. Even if she found a way to permanently straighten her hair without the use of chemicals her hair still wouldn't be natural. Because biologically her hair grows straight so she has to use outside means to make it curly.

 

[katblack]

Someone who's hair grows naturally from their scalp and their curl pattern remains unchanged by chemicals. Natural and virgin hair I think hold different weight. Natural can mean, curl texture undesturbed but color and has been done whether with natural or chemical process. Virgin hair means that no chemical process or any process for that matter has altered your hair, even naturally ones like henna.
The thing one really needs to figure out is what is it that you really want to know? Do you want to know if they have ever put any permanent treatment in their hair including henna and the like? Or do you simply want to know if someone has altered their texture with texturizers or keratin treatments.
Heat damage or training changes the way your hair looks, but your hair is still 100% yours. Even though it is straighter or loosened nothing has been added to your hair nor have you lost anything in your hair's construction. So, you should be able to call yourself with no hesitation natural.

 

[jennboo]

Natural hair:
Hair that has not undegrone a chemical process for the purpose of altering hair texture.

I honestly don't understand the argument, lol.

The following are still classified as natch hair, in my book:
Heat styled natural hair
heat trained natural hair (i.e.purposefully damaged)
dyed natural hair
loc'd natural hair

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

No hair can ever be truly "natural" hair. It came out of a scalp that was exposed to unnatural water and unnatural air and it was nourished by unnatural foods. Not to mention unnatural products have touched it, like unnatural combs made out of plastic so in actuality no hair that emerges from the scalp can be considered "natural" hair even if no relaxer, texturizer, color, heat training, henna, or anything else we want to consider has ever touched it..

 

[doriannc]

i'm going to go with no relaxer means natural. Now if you want your hair to be virgin hair, then that is hair that has not been permanently altered by any chemicals, ie dyes, bleaching, relaxers, perms, etc. If it can't go back to it's original state then it's virgin, but not necessarily natural.

 

[fletches]

No hair can ever be truly "natural" hair. It came out of a scalp that was exposed to unnatural water and unnatural air and it was nourished by unnatural foods. Not to mention unnatural products have touched it, like unnatural combs made out of plastic so in actuality no hair that emerges from the scalp can be considered "natural" hair even if no relaxer, texturizer, color, heat training, henna, or anything else we want to consider has ever touched it..

Mkay. If that's the reason you want to use, go with that

 

[PeanutButterandHoney]

Dang, here y'all are going all deep and I was going for "hair without weave"

 

[Ms. Feliz]

Dang, here y'all are going all deep and I was going for "hair without weave"

 

[LunadeMiel]

Natural: No relaxers, permanent colors, heat training

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

Mkay. If that's the reason you want to use, go with that

Thats my answer and Im sticking to it!

 

[SummerSolstice]

Natural: No relaxers, permanent colors, heat training

ur siggy

 

[Enyo]

For me it's not altering the texture at all. You wouldn't wear blue contacts and say that your current eye color is natural just because you can reverse it at will. I feel when you straighten your hair, isn't not natural anymore. When it goes back to its natural texture...then you're natural again. For me, anything that doesn't occur in nature/is human manipulated is unnatural. That doesn't mean that it's bad or good. I harbor no malice against push-up/gel bras, heels, make-up, etc. But your body isn't in its natural state until those things have been removed. Right now my hair is flat and smooth because I wet-bunned. If someone asked if this was my natural texture (and they have), I'd say no. My hair is not naturally smooth and wavy. I used water and product to do it. Whatever my hair looks like after I get out of the shower and use no product and no manipulation - THAT is what I consider my true natural hair.

It is what it is, though. Labels can only take you so far.

 

[skegeesmb]

For me it is no relaxers, texturizers, coloring. If you heat straighten your hair it's going to be heat damaged natural hair.