Spinny: What's YOUR definition of natural?

[SignatureBeauty]

When I used to run, my motto was "Born to Run." It was completely natural to train to run faster, jump higher, and throw farther. So, now anything you train for is un-natural? If people want to be "natural" purists when it comes to hair care, then the only people with truly natural hair are rastafarians.

Hair doesn't naturally "fro." It was picked out and hair-sprayed to death in the 70's, even cut into the round basket-ball shape. Are fros not "natural?" Hair doesn't grow out of your head twisted or loc'd, but they are clearly considered natural hairstyles.

Seriously, people need to stop trying to be scientists, etymologists, and cosmetologists. Telling other people to "go look stuff up" in the dictionary is rude. I'm in law school, and let me tell you reasonable minds do differ.

This type of over-doing it is why I truly believe that natural hair will never become the norm amongst black women. As folks continue to further restrict what it means to have natural hair, people are going to lose interest and the movement will regress.

ETA: It's almost like some people with natural-textured hair want it to be this little exclusive club, and as it grows, then they want to further restrict the definition. It's just silly, and now that I've read that other thread, I kind of wish I wouldn't have commented in this one.

ITA!!! with everything you said, especially the Bolded & underlined, that is so very true!!! Thank You!

 

[Bint Yusef]

Heat trained hair=hair relaxed with heat. The purpose of training it is to get rid of the curl pattern which is the same goal as slapping a relaxer on your hair.

My definition of natural is hair that can return to its unaltered texture when wet.

 

[B_Phlyy]

I have and always will consider natural hair as hair that has not undergone any chemical process whatsoever. Relaxers,texturizers, and color are chemicals so if one had them in their hair, I would not consider that person natural.

 

[fletches]

When I used to run, my motto was "Born to Run." It was completely natural to train to run faster, jump higher, and throw farther. So, now anything you train for is un-natural? If people want to be "natural" purists when it comes to hair care, then the only people with truly natural hair are rastafarians.

Hair doesn't naturally "fro." It was picked out and hair-sprayed to death in the 70's, even cut into the round basket-ball shape. Are fros not "natural?" Hair doesn't grow out of your head twisted or loc'd, but they are clearly considered natural hairstyles.

Seriously, people need to stop trying to be scientists, etymologists, and cosmetologists. Telling other people to "go look stuff up" in the dictionary is rude. I'm in law school, and let me tell you reasonable minds do differ.

This type of over-doing it is why I truly believe that natural hair will never become the norm amongst black women. As folks continue to marginalize what it means to have natural hair, people are going to lose interest and the movement will regress.

This is not that hard. You can come with every scenario that you want to come up with to justify why you think heat trained hair should be natural, and that still won't change the fact that it's not natural. You can call it natural all day, every day. I can call myself white all day, but that doesn't make it reality.

I don't feel like ppl telling you what is factual is over-doing it. What's over-doing it is trying to come up with 8,000 reasons why the defintion of natural should be you'd like it to be.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine on so many different levels with black ppl. We make up our own defintions in many instances.No you aren't thick if you weigh 250 pounds. No you are not a soldier if you're a gang banger. No, you're not a busines man if you deal drugs. No you're not a wife if you're just shacking,etc.

None of this is directed at you, just ranting.

 

[arosieworld]

Bangs are just a shorter version of what naturally comes out of your scalp.

Nature didn't give you split ends, the enviroment that we (humans) create gave you those. The sun and water didn't tear your hair up. How does water tear your up hair when you need water to moisturize your hair? What probably tore your hair up is what humans have put in the water. How was your hair more healthy with artificial heat, but the sun tore it up? How did your hair look more natural when wet, but the water tore it up?

The artificially heat never tore it up the way living at the beach or on a boat did, sun and SALT water kills your?/my! hair. And even though my "natural" was bleached that made it automatically look un-"natural". The carpet didn't match the drapes so to speak. I am just saying there are many different ways people define natural and we should allow that. Things don't have to be so defined and labeled. And I am positive nature made SSK's.

 

[TwistNMx]

No chemicals - that's it!

 

[fletches]

The artificially heat never tore it up the way living at the beach or on a boat did, sun and SALT water kills your?/my! hair. And even though my "natural" was bleached that made it automatically look un-"natural". The carpet didn't match the drapes so to speak. I am just saying there are many different ways people define natural and we should allow that. Things don't have to be so defined and labeled. And I am positive nature made SSK's.

Then sun and salt water didn't kill your hair, you did. Nature did not equip you to endure so much salt water Just like nature did not equip white ppl to endure so much sun. That doesn't stop them from laying out in it tanning, but they are at a higher risk for sunburn among other things.

I know it seems like I'm being real technical, but my point is you can't blame the natural then turn to the artificial and praise it for the doing the same thing nature does. Just say you prefer to have straight hair, and leave it at that. And nature probably didn't make SSK's either. I don't ever remember reading about our ancestors having SSK's.

 

[LeopardLover77]

Well I guess most of us in the entire world are not walking around with the hair in the same state that God gave it to us. White people who get highlights, Asians who use Bigen, Indians who use whatever they use for color.

At the end of the day, do you REALLY care about the categories as long as you can manage your own hair?

This is just getting ridiculous now.

 

[Solitude]

This is not that hard. You can come with every scenario that you want to come up with to justify why you think heat trained hair should be natural, and that still won't change the fact that it's not natural. You can call it natural all day, every day. I can call myself white all day, but that doesn't make it reality.

I don't feel like ppl telling you what is factual is over-doing it. What's over-doing it is trying to come up with 8,000 reasons why the defintion of natural should be you'd like it to be.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine on so many different levels with black ppl. We make up our own defintions in many instances.No you aren't thick if you weigh 250 pounds. No you are not a soldier if you're a gang banger. No, you're not a busines man if you deal drugs. No you're not a wife if you're just shacking,etc.

None of this is directed at you, just ranting.

No offense taken. My hair is relaxed, and I'm happy with it...so, I don't think I was trying to justify heat-trained hair. If I ever do go natural, I'm sure I will do whatever styles make me happy. But, for the sake of discussion:

You could be a soldier in the "war on drugs."
You could be a business man according the the IRS (running an illegal business, for which you would owe taxes on your income). That is how that got the Mafia.
And, in many states, if you shack long enough, you're a common-law wife.

Like I said, reasonable minds can, and will, differ. You should ask yourself, why is it so important to you to define what natural means, instead of just being natural.

 

[Solitude]

Then sun and salt water didn't kill your hair, you did. Nature did not equip you to endure so much salt water Just like nature did not equip white ppl to endure so much sun. That doesn't stop them from laying out in it tanning, but they are at a higher risk for sunburn among other things.

I know it seems like I'm being real technical, but my point is you can't blame the natural then turn to the artificial and praise it for the doing the same thing nature does. Just say you prefer to have straight hair, and leave it at that. And nature probably didn't make SSK's either. I don't ever remember reading about our ancestors having SSK's.

Are you being serious????? Single-strand knots are not natural, now????


**********exits thread ************

 

[preciouslove0x]

This is not that hard. You can come with every scenario that you want to come up with to justify why you think heat trained hair should be natural, and that still won't change the fact that it's not natural. You can call it natural all day, every day. I can call myself white all day, but that doesn't make it reality.

I don't feel like ppl telling you what is factual is over-doing it. What's over-doing it is trying to come up with 8,000 reasons why the defintion of natural should be you'd like it to be.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine on so many different levels with black ppl. We make up our own defintions in many instances.No you aren't thick if you weigh 250 pounds. No you are not a soldier if you're a gang banger. No, you're not a busines man if you deal drugs. No you're not a wife if you're just shacking,etc.

None of this is directed at you, just ranting.

You said this very well. I don't understand why so many people do this. Just because you like a certain definition DOES NOT make it correct. Like this person above said, I can say that I look white everyday all day but that does NOT make me look white. I am dark brown. I understand some people just like to argue over things that should not be argued over.

I just can't comprehend how you (speaking in general) can relate heat trained hair to something that is natural. For a person to put a flat iron or hot comb to their hair so much to the point that it breaks the bonds in your hair is UNNATURAL. You (speaking in general) can look at it side ways, upside down, inside out, spin 3 times and stop on your left foot. It is NOT NATURAL. How do you argue with something being natural (DERIVED FROM NATURE) and something that is UN-NATURAL??? And why is it that people who say that this is natural can't actually explain why they think so. They always try to relate it to something else (for the most part is never directly related). Why can't this "fact" of heat trained hair being natural be true in itself?

I mean I can also say how I'm white because my sister looks kinda of sort of white, I mean yea she's kind of lighter than me and to make lighter colors you have to mix it with white so if you look at me and her together and really quickly blink you will SEE the white in me.

I am not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just really wanting to see a valid point. The most valid I've seen (that happens to be related to a hair style and not heat trained hair in itself) is the poster who was talking about locs. I definitely see your point (about locs) in the fact that people call loced hair natural when their hair texture has been altered. But it comes down to, has it been permanently altered? I'm not familiar with locs. So if you unravel them do you see the natural texture when you wash it a few times or is it permanently changed (the hair that is currently on your head and not the new growth)?

 

[arosieworld]

Then sun and salt water didn't kill your hair, you did. Nature did not equip you to endure so much salt water Just like nature did not equip white ppl to endure so much sun. That doesn't stop them from laying out in it tanning, but they are at a higher risk for sunburn among other things.

I know it seems like I'm being real technical, but my point is you can't blame the natural then turn to the artificial and praise it for the doing the same thing nature does. Just say you prefer to have straight hair, and leave it at that. And nature probably didn't make SSK's either. I don't ever remember reading about our ancestors having SSK's.

I don't prefer straight hair I wear my hair curly everyday now and this was wait I have been working toward. I only straightened when I was dealing with single strand knots. What I am saying is salt water and sun and heat are all natural things that can change the texture of your hair but I would still call that hair natural. You might not and that's ok with me, we don't have to agree. I am just saying I am allowed my own definition of natural. I don't ever remember reading about out ancestors having or doing a lot of things... its not like we are the race known for our record keeping that doesn't mean they didn't deal with SSKs.
To each their own.

 

[preciouslove0x]

No the poster realizes that SSKs are not done by man, they occur when the hair is not maintained properly. Because every human with kinky hair does not endure SSKs (many on this board) means that it occurs because something is not being done to keep it from happening. Same goes for some types of cancers (argubly all but I'm not going there). If you live a 100% healthy life, some types of cancers are avoidable. This is going into the "half full" "half empty" territory so I will not elaborate because the argument is irrelevant and unnecessary.

Are you being serious????? Single-strand knots are not natural, now????


**********exits thread ************

 

[NaturalPath]

I have to disagree with this post. every human with kinky hair at some point will most likly endure SSK it may be impossible to inspect every single strand of hair.

Did I not say this thread would get heated? Happens everytime

No the poster realizes that SSKs are not done by man, they occur when the hair is not maintained properly. Because every human with kinky hair does not endure SSKs (many on this board) means that it occurs because something is not being done to keep it from happening. Same goes for some types of cancers (argubly all but I'm not going there). If you live a 100% healthy life, some types of cancers are avoidable. This is going into the "half full" "half empty" territory so I will not elaborate because the argument is irrelevant and unnecessary.

 

[preciouslove0x]

I don't prefer straight hair I wear my hair curly everyday now and this was wait I have been working toward. I only straightened when I was dealing with single strand knots. What I am saying is salt water and sun and heat are all natural things that can change the texture of your hair but I would still call that hair natural. You might not and that's ok with me, we don't have to agree. I am just saying I am allowed my own definition of natural. I don't ever remember reading about out ancestors having or doing a lot of things... its not like we are the race known for our record keeping that doesn't mean they didn't deal with SSKs.
To each their own.

I realize that you do not want to argue. I just want to know if you realize that the process for which it takes to get heat from the flat iron and the process for which it takes to get heat from the sun are two different things?

 

[**SaSSy**]

Being "natural" is always subjective but IMO natural is when you don't use chemicals to alter the texture of your hair (relaxers, perms, texturizers, etc.). Colors don't count, and being "heat trained" doesn't count. Those things can cause damage to your hair, but it doesn't change the fact that you are natural.

 

[preciouslove0x]

I have to disagree with this post. every human with kinky hair at some point will most likly endure SSK it may be impossible to inspect every single strand of hair.

Did I not say this thread would get heated? Happens everytime

But its okay if this thread gets heated. As long as we stay civil it should be okay. We are all entitled to our opinion. And if someone, like myself, asks to elaborate, I think it is perfectly fine. It shows that we as humans are complex creatures and are always looking to ask "why?" Which is extremely healthy for the mind.

 

[fletches]

No offense taken. My hair is relaxed, and I'm happy with it...so, I don't think I was trying to justify heat-trained hair. If I ever do go natural, I'm sure I will do whatever styles make me happy. But, for the sake of discussion:

You could be a soldier in the "war on drugs."
You could be a business man according the the IRS (running an illegal business, for which you would owe taxes on your income). That is how that got the Mafia.
And, in many states, if you shack long enough, you're a common-law wife.

Like I said, reasonable minds can, and will, differ. You should ask yourself, why is it so important to you to define what natural means, instead of just being natural.

I don't define what natural means. It's defined already, lol. That's the point Why are you trying to define what it means is the question.

Are you being serious????? Single-strand knots are not natural, now????


**********exits thread ************

No, they are not. Have you ever thought that you might be eating or drinking something that causes them? How about maybe you live in an enviroment that causes them? Have you been stressing, do you use artificial medications, use artificial products?

 

[preciouslove0x]

I have to disagree with this post. every human with kinky hair at some point will most likly endure SSK it may be impossible to inspect every single strand of hair.

Did I not say this thread would get heated? Happens everytime

I agree with you. But does that mean that when we endure SSKs, we were not practicing 100% healthy hair care practices? I think so.

 

[southerncitygirl]

IMO you're not natural if you:
relax
texlax
bkt ( i don't care if it wears off it has toxic chemicals in it that pose a health risk, you can find natural hair color)


i don't include color because if maintained properly it doesn't alter your hair texture even though it has to grow out. the proteins bonds in your hair are altered even without chemicals from combing, brushing, styling, etc.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

Heat trained hair=hair relaxed with heat. The purpose of training it is to get rid of the curl pattern which is the same goal as slapping a relaxer on your hair.

My definition of natural is hair that can return to its unaltered texture when wet.

So ummm......why do it that way then? Seems illogical to me. May as well go ahead and relax it.

Thanks for answering.

 

[NaturalPath]

I dont think so, when we walk around your strands are moving, when we jump around our strands are moving and so forth. Therefore its impossible to completely eliminate the chances that our strands are going to wrap up within itself and cause these knots. Of course texture comes into play someone with my looser texture may have a harder time preventing these SSK than someone with more tightly coiled hair.

I agree with you. But does that mean that when we endure SSKs, we were not practicing 100% healthy hair care practices? I think so.

 

[Sapphire_chic]

I don't define what natural means. It's defined already, lol. That's the point Why are you trying to define what it means is the question.



No, they are not. Have you ever thought that you might be eating or drinking something that causes them? How about maybe you live in an enviroment that causes them? Have you been stressing, do you use artificial medications, use artificial products?

Are you talking about ssks? I heard eating bread crusts gives you curly hair...

 

[preciouslove0x]

I dont think so, when we walk around your strands are moving, when we jump around our strands are moving and so forth. Therefore its impossible to completely eliminate the chances that our strands are going to wrap up within itself and cause these knots. Of course texture comes into play someone with my looser texture may have a harder time preventing these SSK than someone with more tightly coiled hair.

I see your point. Thanks for elaborating.

 

[pookaloo83]

Notice the same people going back and forth. No point in trying to convince the other how you feel, because they will never get it.

I think natural means no chemicals. Perm, texturizers, etc. Dye doesn't count neither does heat IMO.

 

[Sapphire_chic]

pookaloo your siggy is crazy lol did she voluntarily jump lmao

 

[pookaloo83]

pookaloo your siggy is crazy lol did she voluntarily jump lmao

No. He pushed her too hard and she fell!

 

[asubeauty]

No. He pushed her too hard and she fell!

OMG, did she lose her hair on the ground???

I kind of miss the cute baby in your siggy, though...

 

[Bint Yusef]

So ummm......why do it that way then? Seems illogical to me. May as well go ahead and relax it.

Thanks for answering.

Relaxers don't get everybody's hair straight. IF I ever wanted to get my hair straight to the point that it did not revert I would have to use heat. They haven't made a relaxer yet that can get my hair straight. Also hair has different reactions to chemicals vs heat even though the end result is the same, so one process may be better for a particular person over the other.

 

[loulou82]

No the poster realizes that SSKs are not done by man, they occur when the hair is not maintained properly. Because every human with kinky hair does not endure SSKs (many on this board) means that it occurs because something is not being done to keep it from happening.

Have you ever thought that you might be eating or drinking something that causes them? How about maybe you live in an enviroment that causes them? Have you been stressing, do you use artificial medications, use artificial products?

I would love for you two to expound on your theories of SSKs. Stress? Diet? Medications? How would these factors affect SSKs? Where are you getting your information? Ladies who take wonderful care of their hair can still get SSK's. It's NOT a rare occurence only limited to those not maintaining their hair but common among many with tightly coiled hair.