Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...

[Mahalialee4]

Re: HENNA JOY-COLOR PROCESS

Henna Joy, I am also an artist, working in a variety of mediums with acrylics, weaving, watercolors and fabrics etc. and more. and I recognize that you are an artisan as well. The best way to explain this to you is as an artist would probably make the most sense as these skills are transferable to every aspect of life.
Picture your whole head of hair as a canvas. Decide where you want the shadows and light areas. Take into consideration the length of your hair and the thickness. Decide, what type of depth you want to create, one dimentional, two-three or more dimentional, which will require layering overtime. In other words, it will be a work in process. Further, since henna fades overtime, determine the type of intensity you want in your base layers. Once you have your base colorings laid down throughout your hair, upkeep will be easier. It will be like a paint by numbers

but only on your hair. You will be applying the henna on dry hair! if it is naturally curly. If your hair is relaxed then you can do this on damp hair. With that said, I think you are getting the picture.
In my case, I have layers that I am growing out, and so I want to USE THOSE LAYERS EFFECTIVELY in the shadow-light process. Once I wrap my hair and dry it, it will have a lioness, loose, (a la Fara Fawcette). As it gets longer, the look will be a flowing mane look. Now, you have decide what your basic background color is going to be, what your highlight colors will be, and what your shading colors will be. My shading color will be the black, the mahogany the basic background color. My support color will be the black and I will go at the kitchen, along the sides and at the roots in the fronts and sides This provides contouring to my face and emphasize cheekbones. My streaks or high light areas will be the copper. The whole process will take me 3 days. This will give opportunity for me to see how the colors are manifesting. Henna Joy, just imagine you are painting a lifesize picture of a lady with beautiful hair. When the hair grows out it is absolutely beautiful and if you do it with a muted effect you can build on the colors. Use a small paintbrush, and section your hair to do this. You may want to start with the kitchen area. Swirl the colors into the hair, just as if you were paintinng someone's hair. YOU WILL NEED A GOOD MIRROR IN FRONT OF YOU, AND A HAND MIRROR, AND GOOD LIGHTING. OR A VERY SKILLED FRIEND THAT YOU TRUST!!!!Leave it. Check the shades. Then do the sides, leave it and section off with plastic clips. Allow those colors to set.Repeat. Do it till your're satisfied. The rest is just imagination. I decided to share this on the board in case someone else is interested in this process. Above all, have fun!

Hope this helps!

Bonjour.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I was under the impression that metallic salts are naturally inherent with the henna?

[/ QUOTE ]


I always thought so also. That is why hair stylists always told me to stay away from the Henna...because of the metallic dyes and my color treated hair.

Also what would be the difference (if any) between metallic salts and metallic dyes.

Thanks HennaJoy!!!

Valleygirl

 

[Guest]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Thanks for the heads up ladies about deciding to go natural. HennaJoy I have the same question about metallic salts as the others, I thought metallic salts was naturally included in henna?

One more question, will 100% pure henna dry the hair out over time? I hear that it is naturally drying to the hair and eventually will dry it out. Obviously you have used it for years with success, so I don't know how true this is. Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

HennaJoy said:
"If you hair has been damaged from chemicals, don't wait, rush and get some lotus powder. You don't have to worry about it damaging your hair. It will begin the healing process for your hair. It is going to nourish your hair."

It's great to know that there are substances in nature that works what would amount to miracles on the hair. I'm looking into products from the Rain Forest in the Amazon Basin and those products look real interesting.


In reply to:
Again, I hope this is somewhat helpful in the context just knowing what is in a product and making choices based upon that. It is not to say that there is something "good" "bad" or whatever about a particular product that includes lots of ingredients. It is to say that lemonade should not be confused with pure sugar, pure lemon juice, pure water or pure vanilla extract. And a cake, while containing 100% flour is not the same as 100% flour.

I understand yourpoint much better. You are not saying that the additions of products are in itself bad for the hair, just don't say henna with anything added to it is 100% pure henna

In reply to:
Metallic Salts:

Another of Kim's statements quoted, "She doesn't know what process is used to remove the metallic salts." I suspect that it just wasn't added in.

I think I understand this. You stated that metallic salts are added to colored henna to make those shades richer, deeper, more vibrant. Many of us were under the impression that all henna contained metallic salts, and this is simply not true. Another myth to discard I see

So how do you know which contains the metallic salts and which do not? I'm assuming by reading the labels but now I don't even know if they would put this on the labels all the time. And it's upsetting because why should I spend good money to do a harvest test if I thought I was buying a 100% henna with no salts in it in the first place?

 

[CQ_Diddly_Do]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi HennaJoy,

Can you tell me if I Henna my natural hair, will I still be able to use my moisturizing cremes (if and when I want to)?

I currently love the Elasta QP Mango Butter and the Profectiv Strengthening Moisturizer (it's in a small bottle and it's pink).

Thank you in advanced.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi CQ_Diddly_Do,

You should be able to use your other conditioners with no problem when you use your 100% natural henna. The things that people using henna that has any possibility of containing a metallic salt will want to be most concerned about will be using on their henna'd hair the products that have the neutralizers that are used with perms and products containing peroxide. Most conditioners aren't going to contain any of that. And if someone with permed hair wants to shift to henna, they need to be sure that the hair is sufficiently rid of any residue of the neutralizers and peroxide.

The real bottomline is to get an excellent henna and you will be fine in using the other excellent conditioners.

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: HENNA JOY-COLOR PROCESS

Hi Mahalialee4,

Thanks so much for the information. I'm envisioning this to be like preparing the background with a wash and then to add layers of transparent/translucent color over layer of color until you have the effect you want. Yes, I would think that this would have to take multiple days in order to get the right effect.

This is not really for me to do on my hair. But people ask about this process a lot and have attempted it with results that leave a rather hard edged line separating one color from the other. The feathering with the brush makes a lot of sense as a tool and I will certainly suggest that to them.

For my own hair I am usually just using the natural henna or the herbal/henna or indigo as separate applications covering all the hair. The exception is when I have used the streaking technique by pulling hairs through the holes of the cap and applying henna only to those sections to create highlights to a specific section.

One can get as creative as they want to be with henna. Perfecting the technique and having the right set of tools again sounds like the key.

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi SeaMist,

You don't want to connect the harvest hair test with being in search of henna with metallic salts. Though performing it will certainly reveal that if you have used lye based perms and peroxide in your hair.

From what I observed looking around the web last night was that a lot of the information that is incorrect about henna and metallic dyes seems to come from the sites and stores selling products connected to the cosmetic and hair industry here. Places selling products with henna in the name offered in a variety of colors and disclosing only henna as the ingredient were also selling products with henna in the name that they were praising as not having any metallic salts. I found this extremely interesting since there was no disclosure on the first product that it contained the additive of a metallic salt. That lack of disclosure I am sure is what would lead people to think that 100% natural henna would contain metallic salts. I looked at a page for the Egyptian Henna that Kim stated had no metallic salts. The ingredient listed is solely "henna." If I were looking to discover which hennas had metallic salts, the first place I would look would be in a product line that sold some sort of product with henna in its name and coming in a variety of colors and then also had a product with henna in the name that they are promoting as containing no metallic salts. What they are essentially offering is a false choice. There is another option not listed and not offered. That is 100% pure and natural henna powder or 100% pure and natural herbal/henna. What anyone using henna powder needs is a reliable source of pure and natural henna and herbal/henna. What is also needed is for those folks who offer false choices or products with metallic salts mixed with the henna powder and selling it without disclosing the additions to be held accountable. The clue is in their disclaimers and cautions:

1. Do not use the product on grey hair because it might turn grey hair green;

2. Do not use on permed or chemically dyed hair;

3. Product will not color grey hair; and

4. Colors last for a short period of time.

Yes, some of the second caution is also stated by folks selling 100% natural henna powder. The difference will typically be that a harvested hair test or similar test will be recommended. And that test continues to be necessary because people will generalize that a test not needed with one henna powder means that all henna powder is as pure. Just as the generalization is made that all henna powder contains metallic salts because some companies are now promoting products containing henna without metallic salts.

And a most important clue I observed when looking at the variety of products with henna in the name and/or claiming to be henna...The product comes in a variety of colors for coloring the hair but lists the single ingredient to be "henna."

My issue is not just whether or not there is metallic salts added, but the fact that the label is not disclosing what is in the product fully. If there is any doubt about that, then pass or do the harvest hair test.

I have a rule of thumb...before you use any product on your hair or skin that you are loving and nurturing...take the time out to do a test that will make sure you get the results you want. As you know, your hair and skin are reflections not just of what you put on them. They are also reflections of what you put in you and the make up of your own particular system. People are often on diets, medications, herbs and vitamins and minerals that can effect the outcome of the use of certain products on their hair without any knowledge of that fact. One way to discover it is on their full head of hair. Another way to discover it is on a little bit of hair from their comb or brush put in a cup with the product they want to use.

I push the harvested hair test with henna not to discover any one thing. But instead as a way to obtain a lot of information about a lot of things in a very easy way. When you are using 100% natural henna powder your results should be excellent and rather predicable in some respects. When you use 100% natural henna powder and get a different outcome, the question should be, "What has gotten added to this equation that is causing the results of using my henna to be x, y or z." Some people have asked this question and discovered the answer to be their medication, no longer being on a certain medication, stressors, the lack of stressors, some new product they have added to their hair routine or ridding their hair routine of a certain product....

The harvest hair test is just a useful tool.

HennaJoy

 

[Mahalialee4]

Re: HENNA JOY-COLOR PROCESS

Exactly HennaJoy. But the hair should be sectioned from top to bottom and from one side of the head to the other to get this effect.Once you have the effect you want, then the other key is to add an overlay of "henna wash" in a dark "shading color" and just smudge in the areas that have any sharp demarcation lines. (With watercolors it would be water . Smile. or a white edged wash.) But with the henna that is where you would want to have your support, shading in a DARK color. This is best done with a sponge with a daubing effect. If you have someone to help you, you can cover more in one day, but you would need to add a protector between the layers. I suggest strips of plastic wrap from side to side and if you have long hair, old baby bibs that can be tied to sections of hair while the hennaed sections dry. Of course saran wrap can be wrapped around the whole head which of course will speed the process and avoid dripping all over. This would cut the time down considerably. Oh and for the root front areas and side, be sure to blend in the DARK or black very lightly and make it look as if it is just part of the DARK black roots that are growing in. this is an excellent way to hide gray in that area and later all you will have to worry about is touching up this area on a regular basis. As the remainder of the hair starts to fade out it will gradually look so natural. If you are regulary covering this with a natural no color henna, it should last indefinitely. So the upkeep in the long run should be minimal if you are just concentrating on your ROOTS. Once your hair starts to getting really long and you want to keep this look you just repeat the process in that area. (the area of the new growth)

Hope this helps whomever. Bonjour.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi ValleyGirl and SeaMist,

I think I understand the nature of the confusion and hopefully this will help.

Lets think of dyes in this way.

1. There are natural dyes. Natural dyes are herbs, used for medicine, spices, grow in our gardens...etc., and are used in some natural hair care products and by natural dyers on fabric and wool. Natural dyes include henna, logwood, madder root, marigold, turmeric, goldenrod, goldenseal, ginger...lots and lots of herbs and other plant stuff, some minerals and some insects. The majority of these need a mordant...one of which is metallic salts...in order to dye well and not fade out quickly in the sun or in water. In terms of natural dyes made of plant stuff and insects, the concept of a natural metallic dye does not exist. Some metallic salt would have to be added. I will have to look further into the minerals that are considered natural dyes.

If you think of a natural dye such as henna, the only way something like a metal substance could get into the plant stuff which is what the henna powder actually is would be if it were added or in some rare occasion, could have been in the soil in which the henna was grown and therefore inters the plant in that way. If all henna was grown in that one place where the metal was present, then all henna would have whatever that tiny bit of metal in its plant makeup. But since henna is coming from all over the place, it is just not possible that all henna would include some metallic salt. That is something that would have to be added. It would be like each of us growing tomatoes in our garden and somehow a metallic salt shows up in all of our tomatoes. Not likely unless all of the soil in America has somehow become contaminated so thoroughly as to contain the same substances. In the case of henna, that would mean of the Middle East, India and Northern Africa at least. While there is some far fetched possibility that this could occur, it is more likely and more reasonable to conclude that some manufacturer just added the metallic salts. I did a call around to a few natural dye purist who to a person had no knowledge about metallic dyes or natural vegetable dyes containing naturally any metallic salts.

2. In the hair industry, there are metallic dyes for hair. In the hair industry metallic dyes are not new and the consequence of their use is well known. Think Grecian Hair Formula for Men. Here are a few things from a couple of websites:

Metallic dyes derive their color from "metallic salts." These "color restorer" products are combed through the hair and gradually change hair color. This gradual quality makes these products appealing to men who don't want an obvious, instant color change. (From Sallysbeauty.com)

Some dyes contain metal atoms. These are known as metallic dyes. The best-known metallic hair dye is "Grecian formula" which contains lead acetate. When lead acetate is in contact with air, it decomposes to form finely-divided metallic lead. Other metallic dyes contain metals trapped or chelated in some sort of organic matrix. Most hair dyes are non-metallic. The problem comes when someone wants to dye hair that has been previously-colored with a metallic dye. Most conventional hair dyes use hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to "develop" the color and to lighten the hair. Many metals will catalyze the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide. When it decomposes, it forms water (H2O) and oxygen (O2) and when this occurs, a lot of heat is produced. The heat can cause severe scalp burns. There are products that can remove metals and metallic dyes.

As the reports stated, Grecian formula is a product that should probably be avoided. Professional colorists have looked for and avoided this type of product for years. Perm solution coming in contact with a lead acetate can literally disintegrate the hair. (From "Hair News")

3. Metallic dyes used in fabric or textile dyeing are purely synthetic dyes. The popularity of the synthetic dyes are their ease of use, color fastness and extremely "bright" colors.

So the term "metallic dyes" will have a different meaning and use depending upon if viewed in the context of the hair or textile dyeing industries.

Hope this helps separate out the differences.

The hair industry has no real vested interest in products that could replace what they have on the market and/or have used for years. I often think that some of the information provided is deliberately misleading...Other times I believe that people provide misinformation or incomplete information without knowing it. It won't be beauticians and manufacturers of traditional commercial hair products who will provide the best information about henna. In fact, it appears that it will have to be henna users who inform the hair care people and manufacturers.

On the positive side...soooooooooo much correct information about henna is also spreading now and will eventually overtake the myths. This is a plant that has regained new popularity here. Its usage however, is growing at a rate much faster than good and accurate information is being spread. But that won't last.

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: HENNA JOY-COLOR PROCESS

Absolutely excellent Mahalialee4!!!

Thanks so much.

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi SeaMist,

Pure henna should not dry out your hair. I've used it for a really long time and haven't experienced drying. And feedback from people using 100% natural henna powder does not indicate any drying out either.

Since henna is typically being applied once a month, choosing the products used in between henna treatments and assuring that they do not dry out the hair is important. A lot of the cholesterol products can have that effect and harsh shampoos and some harsh products in other conditioners can as well.

HennaJoy

 

[Guest]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
As the reports stated, Grecian formula is a product that should probably be avoided. Professional colorists have looked for and avoided this type of product for years. Perm solution coming in contact with a lead acetate can literally disintegrate the hair. (From "Hair News")

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, you've cleared this up thoroughly. Now my question to you is, since you sell 100% Pure Henna, and I'm assuming that your products DO NOT CONTAIN ANY METALLIC SALTS, someone who has used a:

1. relaxer, texturizer or dye(rinse, semi-permanent, permanent), or any chemical service

2. someone that will use a relaxer, texturizer, dye(rinse, semi-permanent, permanent), or any chemical service

<font color="red">100% Pure Henna That Contains No Metallic Salts, Would Not Damage Any Persons Hair If They Use It, Even If They Used Any Chemical Service As Mentioned Above, Correct?</font>

And would the Lotus Powder damage anyone's hair who has used any chemical service? I'm assuming since this is a natural product that it will not damage a person's hair if they used or will use any chemical service such as the ones mentioned above. Is all Lotus Powder Equal? Or is finding 100% pure lotus powder like trying to find 100% pure henna with no additives? I used the color and bold function to highlight questions I think really need to be made clear

Thank you very much for your very detailed explanations!

 

[BlkMane]

Re: HENNA JOY

HennaJoy...you have truly brought much joy to us at this board!!!

Talk about a henna connoisseur!!

I had only tried henna twice in my life (long while back) and it did make my hair hard. I always thought it was a side effect of henna. I also thought that henna had metallic salts unless they were removed.

Now, I learn that NATURAL henna doesn't contain metallic salts!!

I'm definitely going to try henna now.

One question though, I color my hair every few months with semi-permanent color (no peroxide or ammonia). I use the type in the bottles that rinse out after a few washes (Adore, Sebastians Colourshines, Jazzing, etc.) Since these products tend to coat the hair shaft, will this impede the effects of henna? I wanted to try henna for transitioning.

Thanks!

(standing ovation for HennaJoy)

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi SeaMist,

That is sort of an IQ test...

Let us see what it would take to make that statement hold true 100%. Probably the ability to control at all times, every variable in the environment of each individual using 100% natural henna powder with variables to include but not be limited to the state of physical and emotional health, medications, diet, dietary supplements, all other products previously, currently or projected to be used on the hair, and acts of God!

I thought we were discussing metallic salts and metallic dyes and the difference. I looked at one variable, metallic salts, and the things metallic salts react with that are known to exist in other chemical process products...from what I read, those are the neutralizers used with the lye based perms and peroxide used in hair treatments.

Some ways to look at this. Someone could use 100% natural henna powder on their hair today and get excellent results. Continue to use 100% henna powder for three more years with excellent results. Then change their conditioner to something that has something in it that reacts with some element of what is in the make up of 100% natural henna powder and the now reddish brown hair turns green. At this moment I have no idea what that thing would be in that conditioner. But I would never say that the possibility that thing that could one day be put on henna'd hair does not exist. That would be silly. I don't speak in that sort of absolutes when there are countless variables that could come into play and the only one I have any control over is the purity of the henna powder I handle.

You read more into my statement than there was.

"100% Pure Henna That Contains No Metallic Salts, Would Not Damage Any Persons Hair If They Use It, Even If They Used Any Chemical Service"

To make that statement is to presuppose an impossible degree of knowledge about the individual using 100% henna powder, their history in all the ways that can influence hair, and everything about every ingredient disclosed and not disclosed contained in "relaxer, texturizer or dye(rinse, semi-permanent, permanent), or any chemical service"
as they relate to past/present/future.

There are semi-permanent hair rinses that have metallic dyes in them that are currently on the market and some are new to the marketplace. A person could use 100% natural henna powder today and then use a rinse with the metallic dye in six months. It is possible that person will have some negative outcome. Just in terms of the metallic dyes, there certainly are other ways to get them in combination with henna than for them to be in henna powder. There are too many of those other products on the market with metallic dyes, metallic salts and some unknown other substance that could create a reaction with the henna and too many people using them or who will use them.

The exact same thing could be said if someone used any other natural dye on their hair. Marigold petals from from flowers in our gardens is a natural dye. Stains a beautiful yellow on its own. But when it comes into contact with a metallic salt is going to produce another color. So if someone uses 100% pure Marigold to color their hair and then uses a hair product with some metallic dye or metallic salt in it later...where is the culprit. It is not the Marigold. Why should it be expected that a seller of 100% pure Marigold make an assurance that hair colored with it would never react to something that has or may in the past, present or future be used on someone's hair.

It should suffice to know that the Marigold is 100% pure...that the metallic salt/metallic dye is not in the Marigold...that a harvest hair test will indicate to any user if they have the presence of a substance that will react with the 100% Marigold either in their hair currently or in a product they will use on their hair today or next year. With the assurance that the Marigold is 100% pure and natural, should a person experience a reaction on their hair colored with the Marigold, perhaps they will have to look in their environment for what caused the reaction. And wonder to themselves why they didn't perform that harvested hair test. That is the same for 100% pure and natural henna powder.

A lot is being asked of lil ole 100% henna powder here. It is just an herb...though a wonderkin...and it needs to be sold responsibly and used responsibly...just like any product. The same with Lotus Powder.

So no...I won't make that statement because I don't think it would be a responsible thing to do. It could lull people into a sense of security that would keep them from being responsible users when they consider what other things they may have already or want to do to their hair simultaneously with henna application and/or in the future.

And I would take that position on most things when human nature, choice, free will and a limitless number of other variables over which I have no control can and will most likely have the opportunity to act upon it and interact with it.

Here is what I say:

1. The henna powder and lotus powder are 100% pure henna powder and lotus powder to the extent that anything in nature can be considered pure. There are no additives unless I have stated so on my website.

2. A harvest hair test is a good tool and good habit to form by anyone using products on their hair. Just as a patch test is a good tool and habit to form for products used on skin.

3. Henna is not for everyone. Lotus powder is not for everyone. Nothing is for everyone. But it is for some. And that some should know as much about it as possible and use it accordingly.

Another note: I've stated the virtues of the harvest hair test when using henna. For people who have used chemical dyes on their hair that may have been PPD dyes should also perform a skin patch test with henna or any other natural dye, semi-permanent dye or permanent dye. One of the problems with PPD is that it causes a sensitivity...allergy...to dyes in general. A lot of people want to shift from permanent dyes to other types of dyes like natural dyes or semi-permanent dyes or color rinses because they experience some scalp problems...dryness, rash, redness etc., as well as damage to their hair. Those things can be signs that there is already a skin sensitivity developed. If the skin sensitivity has already been developed, the person can still have reactions to natural dyes, semipermanent dyes and color rinses...dyes in their clothing, in food, in cosmetics, etc. The use of PPD can be ceased and the reaction not show up until much later. So if chemical dyes are in ones past or present, understand the exposure to the risk of skin sensitivity and perform the patch tests. Don't think that shifting to henna can stop the effects of previous exposure and a pre-existing sensitivity to dyes...even when no symptoms are currently present. Henna can't close that gate. However, if there is no pre-existing condition, reactions to 100% natural henna itself are extremely extremely extremely rare. That makes henna is a good alternative for people wishing to avoid the risks associated with PPD.

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: HENNA JOY

Hi BlkMane,

It does seem that some henna products sold have had metallic salts added to them like the Egyptian Henna. Other than for it not to be added in the first place, it actually would be extreeeeeeeeeeemely interesting to me to learn about the process that would be used to remove it. Minimally, it would have to be a cost prohibitive process.

It would probably be worthwhile for you to check into exactly what is in the semi-permanent hair colors themselves. I ran across a couple of reports that indicated that some of the semi-permanent hair colors have metallic salts added in them in order to intensify and make it more colorfast. And then regardless of what is said on the label regarding ingredients and what the customer service person says, still do the harvest hair test to be sure. There are metallic salts hanging around out there in other hair care products. And what you want to be sure of is that henna and those metallic salts don't meet up and alter the color of your hair. Probably would darken it to dark brown, black and a more unlikely but possible green. You certainly don't want henna and metallic salts and some of the components in the perm neutralizers or peroxide to come together in sufficient amounts to cause a reaction.

Though I don't like to send powder through the mail in envelopes these days, if you or anyone wanting a small sample (a spoon or two) of henna powder sufficent to perform a harvest hair test before making a commitment to henna want to send me note and a self addressed envelop, I'll be glad to seen you a sample. That is the real way you will know what 100% henna powder will do for you. And that is what is important. What result can you expect from 100% henna powder when used on your hair as it currently is? I'll be glad to help you find that out.

Email me and I'll send you my address. It is also on my website:

EveryDay Mehndi
http://www.everydayhenna.com

HennaJoy

 

[Guest]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Thanks for the clarification HennaJoy

I never even realized that metallic salts were in commercial dyes. Now isn't that something? I would really love to try those samples though. They sound wonderful. ON your site, you really seem to favor products from Ahmad and Kimia. Are these sold in Asian, MiddleEastern Stores also? Thanks.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi SeaMist,

The Ahmad and Kimia are not currently not available in any of the Middle Eastern or Indian stores. But I'm trying...

Right now I have one person in Canada selling Kimia and one other person here in the U.S. selling Kimia primarily in Mexico, Central and South America. They are both on line as well.

All of the henna powders are my favorites for one reason or another for something unique about them. Kimia for body art is the one capable of providing red stains. Kimia and Ahmad are the powders that provide the darkest deepest reds on hair. The other natural henna powders also provide the red coloring, but not a dark as those two. But there are some other ones that I love for hair too. The Malimba Moroccan, Jamila, Prabda, and Navaid 1 are ones that a lot of people get to use regularly for their hair. There is a "natural" listed among the herbal/henna hair colors that really does not belong there and is only their because it is part of that product line. It is also a 100% natural henna powder. The rest in that line are herbal/henna and therefore the variety of colors.

The only henna powder I have that the manufacturer has widely distributed in the U.S. is the Jamila. You can find it in the Asian and Middle Eastern stores. You will want to make sure that it is marked "Export Quality." If you can find Jamila in the stores you can usually get it pretty reasonably priced. It won't be the freshest possible, but typically it is not stale because it turns over fast. If there is dust on the box or is not marked "Export Quality" you will want to pass on it. The dust will indicate too old and if not marked "Export Quality" it is often so full of stems and other debris as to be a turn off and may or may not be 100% natural henna powder. Jamila that is "Export Quality" is one of the best sifted henna powders on the market and rinses out of the hair really easily. And when fresh stains hair a nice red too.

I don't know how many PMs are allowed here. So if you like, just email me at [email protected] and I will email you back my address.

Do try it and I think when you see the results of your harvested hair test, a lot of your questions get answers specific to you.

HennaJoy

 

[Guest]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't know how many PMs are allowed here. So if you like, just email me at [email protected] and I will email you back my address.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe a person can PM as much as they'd like. And thanks again for stressing to always do a harvest test

I believe this will save a person a good deal of potential grief if they test the product before applying.

 

[hada]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

CQ,

I have used thre Elucence Moisturizing Balance conditioner and Giovanni Direct Leave-in for great moist w/o any problems, but that's me. I currently mix them with 100 % coconut oil, a little goes a long way. Hair stays soft.

hada

 

[iris]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi HennaJoy,

Can Lotus Powder be used with any chemical service? I'm a little unclear how anything natural would have a reaction with anything chemical. I thought chemical with chemical has the potential for negative effects, but nothing natural mixed with anything. Thanks!

 

[hada]

Re: HENNA JOY

Hi HennaJoy,

When you say deeper reds do you mean reds that will show up more, in the hair? I want to do reds for now. I will do indigo later, the color sounds delicious. My mom with her gray would need the indigo also. She needs to let go of PERMANENT hair dyes. It dries and breaks her hair. She has very fine 3a hair and 2a hair in the back 1/2 of her head. It is growing but the ends still break. Is there something she can use until her color grows out??? She doesn't want to grow her gray out yet. Maybe something she can use on newgrowth only?

Henna would make her hair really stand out and much thicker too.

She has no relaxer, btw.

hada

 

[CQ_Diddly_Do]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Thank you HennaJoy and Hada for your responses about my question regarding conditioners and moisturizer after I Henna my hair.

HennaJoy (or anyone else that may know), I have purchased 100% Organic Henna in a Persian Red color. I'm not as much interested in the color as I am in the conditioning properties but I wouldn't mind having red highlights. I read on the label that I could mix the Henna with coffee (instead of water or lemon juice) to tone down the red.

Is there any other way to tone down the Persian Red Henna that you would recommend? Also, I thought I read somewhere that I could expose my Henna to the air and light to cut down on it's coloring ability. Is that in anyway true and if so, how long would the Henna need to be exposed to the air and light?

Thank you in advance for your help. If I didn't mention it before welcome to the board HennaJoy and thank you for your wealth of knowledge and your willingness to inform and assist.

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi Iris,

You are fine with the lotus powder. It is not considered a natural dye.

When you are using a natural dye, however, even though it is natural the wrong chemical product used with it could be a problem. The issue with natural dyes would be using a chemical product that contains anything that could be considered a mordant like metallic salts. A natural dye that is one color when mixed with a mordant/metallic salt will change color.

Mordants are the way natural dyers of fabric obtain such a range of colors from any one natural dye substance. You will get one color from alum, another from ferrus oxide, another from tin...copper etc. That is a positive with fabric and wool dyeing and quite the negative with hair.

So a chemical and chemical...chemical and natural...and even a natural and natural can create color changes that not desired. (A natural and natural can create color changes when one or both of the naturals is both a natural dye and a mordant...like some types of myrobalan.)

 

[iris]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Thanks HennaJoy. One last question so I can be reeeeeeealllyyyyyyy sure... Is the lotus safe for relaxed hair? My mother relaxes and I think I want to introduce her to this product

It seems healthier for the hair.

Thanks A Bunch!

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi CQ_Diddly_Do,

The color results are going to depend upon how long you leave it on your hair and the color of the hair it is put on. Coffee or black tea when really concentrated will move the color more towards brown...but the brown coloring will not last for long. Black walnut hull powder can shift the color more towards brown as well. That will last a bit longer than the coffee or tea.

The things that will kill the coloring capacity of henna powder are light, air and heat. But that takes quite a while unless you are in a very hot place with lots of bright sunlight. If you are, lay your henna powder out in a shallow pan or bowl with a clear cover over it and let the sun beam down on it and to provide heat and light. You will know when the dye is killed because the color of the henna powder itself will bleach out from green, khaki or dark brown to a light brown.

If your hair is dark brown or black, you can get pretty much the same effect by never using lemon juice to mix your paste...mix it up and use the paste right away before dye release and leave on no more than 4 hours. That will minimize the possibility for release of the dyes that will color your hair. But still give you sufficient time for the conditioning to take place. Basically, you just want to do the opposite of everything that aids in the dye release in your paste.

This will work on dark hair. On light hair, it will result in the hair coloring being a pumpkin or lighter and typically, terribly unattractive orange.

Thanks for the welcome. Information about henna is best when shared...

HennaJoy

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hi Iris,

The lotus powder is safe. I don't know what the particular relaxer she uses likes or the condition of her hair. So there will be no unsafe reactions. But her specific outcome is going to be dependent upon the lotus powder and her hair condition and type of relaxer. Think of the lotus powder like another vegetable or animal organic matter being applied to hair that has been relaxed. Say mayonnaise. If her hair is really thin and limp and normally very oily, the mayonnaise can make her hair appear and feel even more so. If however her hair is in the normal or leaning towards the dry range, she will experience more moisture, body and shine. That is the mayonnaise doing what it does with a particular set of circumstances. The mayo is safe but outcome is dependent upon things outside of the mayo. Same for the lotus powder.

Do the harvested hair test on some of her hair first so you can feel completely comfortable before applying it to your mothers hair. It will also help to reassure her concerning what she can expect.

HennaJoy

 

[iris]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Thanks HennaJoy. You are a gem

 

[nita4]

Re: Paging the Hennaphilic Gals...rather long

Hennajoy, since we are on the conversation of Lotus Powder -I thought I would share the information you sent me yesterday when I asked a question regarding how often I should use the Lotus Powder and you stated:

Lotus Powder paste application: every couple of weeks or as infrequent as you like.

Lotus Powder rinse application: weekly

Henna powder paste: once a month or as new growth dictates

The lotus powder paste or rinse application can substitute for shampoo and conditioning.

To make things clear - I have a question as to why the Lotus Powder and the Henna useage? Could I just use the Lotus Powder in order to release the bulk in my hair or does the Henna help in the straighten process?

I plan on doing a harvest test, but what should I be looking for since I'm not coloring?

Also, is there a difference between the Lotus Powder and the Lotus Powder Plus?

Thanks and I looking forward to receiving my order!!

 

[HennaJoy]

Re: HENNA JOY

Hi Hada,

By deeper reds I mean in relationship to orange/reds and reds created by other henna powders. All henna powders have a certain range of colors possible on hair and skin. These ranges differ at the extremes. The Kimia and Ahmad differ in the capacity to actually get to red and produce a red tone darker and more red than possible with other henna powders. Hope that was clear...and makes sense...describing color difference ain't easy. Since henna stains are transparent or translucent in nature, the color of the hair that the henna stain is on will help to determine the actual color outcome.

She doesn't actually have to let all of the chemically dyed hair grow out prior to using 100% natural henna. It is more about allowing sufficient time for it to be ok to use henna. People have used henna in one month and others have waited 6 months or longer. Do the harvest hair test with some henna and some of her harvested hair and observe the results. If the hair in the cup or bowl is fine, her full head of hair will be as well. If the dyes have caused damage to her scalp, spend the in between henna time getting her scalp in shape.

There are no purely natural colorants that I would recommend using any sooner than 100% pure and natural henna. Depending on the hair color she desires, you have the option of the herbal/henna as well. And there is also the Hennalucent.

I would however recommend giving her hair a breather for at least a month and use something like the mayonnaise for deep conditioning...use some oils like baobab, coconut or marula on her hair and scalp. If you can get your hand on some neem oil (really stinks) or some neem powder, massage the neem oil into the scalp a day before washing and make a paste of neem powder, shikakai, and amla powder to apply to her hair...leave in for an hour and then massage through and rinse out. This last step is both a shampoo and conditioner for her hair. If she can't do all of that, then any portions of the routine will be helpful. I just think before shifting products to allow her hair and scalp a period during which it does not have to deal with another dye of any sort would be a good thing. Especially if it is being constantly fed and nourished during this period.

HennaJoy