Open Marriages

[Princess4real]

I don't have a problem with people who choose to have open marriages, however I take issue with the overused and invalid "animals don't mate for life so we weren't meant to either" approach to validating open marriages.

There are animals that mate for life so logically we have no more reason to believe we were meant to be part of the majority of animals (that don't mate for life) or the minority esp. since we already exhibit behavior not emulated by many other animals. It's possible we were designed for the flexibility born from individual choice and that means both lifestyle choices could be equally "natural" or not.

I do too! To me people will accept this theory because they think it was lessen the hurt and pain of being cheated on. Telling their spouse about their horny attraction to someone else helps the spouse to accept it and somehow they feel honored and respected that their husband or wife told them the truth. The reward, the husband or wife gives their permission for them to carry on with Sally or Bob and it's all good in the hood! Straight whackness to me.

 

[yokoyokogirl]

Not cool.
No matter what someone somewhere will get hurt.

But then again, I'm not married.

For me, no way in hell.

I asked me SO if he was cool with it before. He took a while to answer, then I said "Ok I'm going to find some guys to join us on the regular" and he quickly changed his mind to hell no.

 

[Princess4real]

Not cool.
No matter what someone somewhere will get hurt.

But then again, I'm not married.

For me, no way in hell.

I asked me SO if he was cool with it before. He took a while to answer, then I said "Ok I'm going to find some guys to join us on the regular" and he quickly changed his mind to hell no.

I agree, but it seem's like they don't think they will because they gave their spouse the ok and the great rules.

ETA: If the bible can't keep two people from cheating how do people think discussing RULES is going to keep people in check??? What are these rules anyway? Don't touch the left TaTa only the right one?

 

[LunadeMiel]

Some animals are monogamous....

 

[LunadeMiel]

Yes! Yes! Such a vital part that most people miss - most open marriages are amazingly self-defined, and while they share some similarities with a standard marriage - it's really about what works for THOSE two people.



*smiles*

Open marriages can work, but they are many, many, many more orders of magnitude to make work than closed marriages are. Think of all of the issues that closed marriages have, and the divorce rate there - the rate of divorce/breakup/implosion in open marriages tends to be even higher.

But when it works? It's an - it's an truly amazing, and loving thing. And yes, it's often very sexual as well, but a lot of times - it's not all about screwing other people.

I've been around a lot of people in open marriages (over 50 couples, at a minimum) and I can only think of 3 or so that worked and seemed healthy and lasted over a period of time.

The rest were thinly veiled cheaters, or people making a last stand to save a dying relationship, or people who didn't really love each other - just tolerated each other and their marriage was 'comfy'. Once one or the other found someone else to really love, though, it fell apart.

It takes a hell of a lot of honestness, openness, and maturity to run an open marriage.


Now. For all of you saying you wouldn't want an open marriage, are ya'll opposed to polygamy/polygny as well?

Absolutely opposed to it...

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

Wow. Ruby Dee and Ozzie too?

This thread is really interesting and I'm still reading along... The concept is interesting - not that I'd do it - because lots of people ARE in open marriages - the openness just flows one way by one partner stepping out on the relationship, whether they know it or not.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

Just wondering.... and playing devil's advocate... Are the "benefits" of open marriage only about the sex? Because this seems to be most folks assumptions/perceptions up in here...

 

[Princess4real]

Wow. Ruby Dee and Ozzie too?

This thread is really interesting and I'm still reading along... The concept is interesting - not that I'd do it - because lots of people ARE in open marriages - the openness just flows one way by one partner stepping out on the relationship for some extramarital sex, whether they know it or not.

I agree, but IMO if you love your spouse giving them permission and discussing the RULES is not going to ease the pain of your spouse sleeping with another person. Having an open marriage does not mean that your
spouse will not leave you for that other person. If the spouse does want to leave, I wonder if the husband or wife goes to the fridge and gets the RULES and points to #4 which says, YOU AGREED TO NEVER LEAVE ME?

 

[Princess4real]

Just wondering.... and playing devil's advocate... Are the "benefits" of open marriage only about the sex? Because this seems to be most folks assumptions/perceptions up in here...

Good post and that is what I would like to know.

 

[heyfranz]

No way. I wouldn't even participate in an "open" relationship with a BF...

 

[tiara76]

Why does unconditional love have to mean that the person is ok with his or her spouse having sex with other people? I bet some man came up with that, in order to make the woman feel guilty, for not wanting him to be with other another woman. Who decides what unconditional love means?

I never once said that anybody had to be "okay" with anything.....if one isn't okay with somebody elses choice, desires, wants or whatever love for the self will enable them to step away from situations that "hurt" them not "put up" with and take emotional abuse from that person and call it "love"...love for the other will allow them to go be who they want to be...and that doesn't mean that "hurt" won't be involved...but if what you want for yourself isn't what the other person want to be to you you are closing yourself off from somebody else who not only can step in the picture and be that person for you, but wants to.....or even cause the other person to "wake up" and want to be that person for you...thats one of those cases where...

I think somebody may have mentioned it before....say what you mean, mean what you say....if you not cool with something speak on it and act on it....and instead of saying to the other person you have to/need to/should/better change for us to be together.....its more like....you are free to be how you like, however we won't be together, I love you to death and itty bitty sub atomic pieces but this isn't what I want or will put up with.....

you are saying the same thing however how its taken and comes across now leaves up the choice to the other person and they can't come back and say you "made" them do anything....the very distinct psychological difference between somebody doing something for somebody else vs doing something for themselves

and for your question...the individual decides what unconditional love is...some people's versions leave them trampled and beat down, other's versions leave them trapped and suffocating, what is your version and how do you offer it to others and how does it really make you feel...or even if you define it...are you really capable of being it...good thoughts to be alone with and ponder on

 

[Carrie A]

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deleted..... late with comment and didn't read thread.

 

[Syrah]

Just wondering.... and playing devil's advocate... Are the "benefits" of open marriage only about the sex? Because this seems to be most folks assumptions/perceptions up in here...

That's what I'm curious about also. People are so quick to say its about the sex as if hubby is out banging anything that raises his temperature while wifey is at home baking pies. Husband stops at Taco Bell for lunch, orders a bean burrito, a Mexican Pizza and 10 minutes in the bathroom with the checkout lady...

I think someone else hit it on the head - it really has to do with how you define "sex" and what it means in your relationship....

 

[Syrah]

Yeah, I'm done! On a positive note, its good they have a good level of communication, but there are EXTREMES!

...I'm not here to defend someone else's relationship. Someone asked me about what I knew of open marriages, so I wrote about what I know through friends' experiences.

 

[Princess4real]

What is the purpose of having an open marriage?

 

[Princess4real]

That's what I'm curious about also. People are so quick to say its about the sex as if hubby is out banging anything that raises his temperature while wifey is at home baking pies. Husband stops at Taco Bell for lunch, orders a bean burrito, a Mexican Pizza and 10 minutes in the bathroom with the checkout lady...

I think someone else hit it on the head - it really has to do with how you define "sex" and what it means in your relationship....

Are you saying it is just about sex? I'm really trying to understand why someone would consider this.

 

[Syrah]

Are you saying it is just about sex? I'm really trying to understand why someone would consider this.

...it depends on how you define sex, right? For some it's an act. For others its a physical representation of a larger, spiritual and emotional connection between two people (i.e. the tenants of Kama Sutra and even some types of Yoga). For others, its the ultimate way of proving solidarity or loyalty to an organization or belief system (i.e. ancient cultures, secret societies etc).

I think it starts with the definition.

I dunno.

 

[~~HoneyComb~~]

Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee had an open marriage for a minute, but it didn't work out like they invisioned so I believe they abandoned the practice.

I wanna believe they abandoned it too. It was probably practiced early in their marriage when they were a lot younger and as they matured they realized that it wasn't for them, and realized what they needed they had in each other

 

[MissMasala5]

I once had an "open" relationship with a boyfriend, the open part lasting maybe a good month. It was a rash decision after a fight, so maybe that doesn't count.

I can't imagine why a married couple would want this, unless they're both swingers.

 

[sunnydaze]

FYI..Monique and her husband do have an open marriage, however she doesn't feel the need to explore outside the marriage..so this is basically for him. They were best friends in college and told each other that if they weren't married by 40, then they would get married. She has been married before, but I don't remember if he has.

It just seems like there is no way for an open marriage to work in the long term unless you both are participating..IMO. You never caring to bed anyone else, but your spouse always wanting to..would get really old it seems, even with the understanding.

 

[Country gal]

I can't from direct experience but I do have 2 friends who have both been in open relationships (one married, one dating - preparing for engagement). They view sex as an activity that can stimulate passion in various aspects of life and for various parties - not just the active participants. It's not only a physical act that 2 people embark on to deepen a connection, but an aspect of spirituality that has physical roots (if that makes sense).

Honestly, my girl, who's married and her husband are two of the most passionate people I've ever met. To this end, they exude the passion for life and self confidence that you rarely see or experience. A level of self acceptance that isn't based on external influences.

How do they do it?

A) They've committed to 100% honesty. They can mention the urges and attractions that they're having. To the point where my girl, a lawyer, was really attracted to one of her interns - she and I talked about it - and eventually she and her husband talked about it. Together they decided that this posed a threat to their relationship, due to the NATURE of her attraction, and within months she was able to transfer to a different office. Proactive.

B) No they don't invite anybody and everybody into their bed. They are actually QUITE selective. And the actions are agreed upon BEFORE they take place, not after. It's not like "honey, today at lunch, I signed for a UPS package...oh yea, I effed the UPS lady!". Nah, it's something that is discussed.

C) As far as I know there have been 2 people they've invited into their relationship (both female) and these people have been consistent participants in their relationship prior to marriage, at different times, and were at the wedding. And sometimes when we get together as friends, both of these chicas are there.

They've been married going on 4 years and dated for 7 before getting married (high school and college sweethearts).

----------------------------
I highly doubt I could ever take it that far. Actually I know I couldn't. It takes a certain level of self-acceptance and trust that I simply don't possess. But I think there is something there in the recognition that vows before friends and family (and God, if you're spiritual about it) and a marriage license do not result in immediate changes. It's on a whole different level, but females who assume after getting married that their man will have eyes for her and only her are dillusional and stupid IMO.

How do the girls look?

 

[Linxnme]

I am not sure I am understanding the whole open marriage thing as discussed here. Are we talking about a married couple dating other people or having sexual encounters with other people? I have a friend that is married and has an openness in her relationship as it pertains to the latter. Sexually speaking, she gets turned on by the idea of seeing her husband perform with another woman. They are married happy and then some. They have children and they share a loyal respectable relationship. She has no desire to be with another man, she just enjoys seeing him perform with this other woman and they invited another woman into their bedroom. The same woman has come several times. I can assume for the the 3rd leg, it must be a fantasy of hers as well.

My friend is a very confident woman, that clearly shares a relationship with a man that adores her and respects her like no other. Some women (or men) may not be able to even fathom the idea of that but it works for them.

Does her allowance to bring another woman into their bedroom fall into the realms of and 'open relationship' as it is sexually specific? Does her allowance may her an insecure woman, trying desperately to please and/or keep her man? In this instance, I would say no because she expresses that it is a true fantasy of hers and she brought it to him.

I personally, as her friend, feel like if you have a married couple, that wants to take their sexual exploration to the next level and it works for them, then so be it. It may not work for me, but I can't knock her for her fantasy. I don't think she would go for anything other than the extra curricular bedroom activity.

But again if we are talking about married couples, dating and/or carrying relationships with other people then scratch my story from the record.

 

[alyn308]

I shouldn't comment, but....I'm very very close with two people who are in (and have for been for quite some time) an open marriage. For them it's not just about sleeping with this or that person..it's about living their lives(Freedom) and being able to live out their indiviual and shared dreams. Some marriages don't work because people feel tied down, suffocated...their relationship works because they don't have those feelings. They understand that love is selfless and that marriage doesn't equal possession.

They raised/are raising two spectacular, amazing, beautiful children who are comfortable with themselves and their parents way of living.

All open marriages don't/won't work, but the same can be said for regular marriages.

Kinda OT: I'm watching this progam called Taboo and I wish that more people where comfortable with their sexuality/sensuality...it's a beautiful thing...

 

[JFemme]

I shouldn't comment, but....I'm very very close with two people who are in (and have for been for quite some time) an open marriage. For them it's not just about sleeping with this or that person..it's about living their lives(Freedom) and being able to live out their indiviual and shared dreams. Some marriages don't work because people feel tied down, suffocated...their relationship works because they don't have those feelings. They understand that love is selfless and that marriage doesn't equal possession.

They raised/are raising two spectacular, amazing, beautiful children who are comfortable with themselves and their parents way of living.

All open marriages don't/won't work, but the same can be said for regular marriages.

Kinda OT: I'm watching this progam called Taboo and I wish that more people where comfortable with their sexuality/sensuality...it's a beautiful thing...

Great post, and thank you for sharing...

I've watched Taboo..

 

[Bunny77]

I shouldn't comment, but....I'm very very close with two people who are in (and have for been for quite some time) an open marriage. For them it's not just about sleeping with this or that person..it's about living their lives(Freedom) and being able to live out their indiviual and shared dreams. Some marriages don't work because people feel tied down, suffocated...their relationship works because they don't have those feelings. They understand that love is selfless and that marriage doesn't equal possession.

They raised/are raising two spectacular, amazing, beautiful children who are comfortable with themselves and their parents way of living.

All open marriages don't/won't work, but the same can be said for regular marriages.

Kinda OT: I'm watching this progam called Taboo and I wish that more people where comfortable with their sexuality/sensuality...it's a beautiful thing...

Here's the thing. If two people have an open marriage or bring other people into the sexual part of their marriage and everyone is truly okay with it, then I really can't say much. I would never have it be a part of mine, but if others are happy, then by all means, they can continue to do them.

The problem I'm having to a degree is this underlying idea that if a person flat out states that NO, THAT BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE, that somehow this woman is not "free" or truly doesn't understand "love." I guess I don't hear any talk about the sacrificial aspect of love -- all I'm hearing is how love is supposed to be the "freedom" to let others do what they want.

What about, "okay, I'd like to explore something with this other person, but I love my wife/husband so much that I will let go of my own selfish desire because I care about him/her."

That's what I consider love. It's self-sacrificing for the greater good and not getting caught up in one's own selfish desires. In these cases where a partner KNOWS his wife (cause we all know that's how it usually is) wouldn't like an open marriage, LOVE would be not bringing it up at all and not giving in to his desire to step out just because he can.

But of course, I know folks will say that's asking too much of a man, right?

 

[Princess4real]

Here's the thing. If two people have an open marriage or bring other people into the sexual part of their marriage and everyone is truly okay with it, then I really can't say much. I would never have it be a part of mine, but if others are happy, then by all means, they can continue to do them.

The problem I'm having to a degree is this underlying idea that if a person flat out states that NO, THAT BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE, that somehow this woman is not "free" or truly doesn't understand "love." I guess I don't hear any talk about the sacrificial aspect of love -- all I'm hearing is how love is supposed to be the "freedom" to let others do what they want.

What about, "okay, I'd like to explore something with this other person, but I love my wife/husband so much that I will let go of my own selfish desire because I care about him/her."

That's what I consider love. It's self-sacrificing for the greater good and not getting caught up in one's own selfish desires. In these cases where a partner KNOWS his wife (cause we all know that's how it usually is) wouldn't like an open marriage, LOVE would be not bringing it up at all and not giving in to his desire to step out just because he can.

But of course, I know folks will say that's asking too much of a man, right?

Boy do I agree with you!!!

 

[tiara76]

Here's the thing. If two people have an open marriage or bring other people into the sexual part of their marriage and everyone is truly okay with it, then I really can't say much. I would never have it be a part of mine, but if others are happy, then by all means, they can continue to do them.

The problem I'm having to a degree is this underlying idea that if a person flat out states that NO, THAT BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE, that somehow this woman is not "free" or truly doesn't understand "love." I guess I don't hear any talk about the sacrificial aspect of love -- all I'm hearing is how love is supposed to be the "freedom" to let others do what they want.

What about, "okay, I'd like to explore something with this other person, but I love my wife/husband so much that I will let go of my own selfish desire because I care about him/her."

That's what I consider love. It's self-sacrificing for the greater good and not getting caught up in one's own selfish desires. In these cases where a partner KNOWS his wife (cause we all know that's how it usually is) wouldn't like an open marriage, LOVE would be not bringing it up at all and not giving in to his desire to step out just because he can.

But of course, I know folks will say that's asking too much of a man, right?

thats when the woman frees herself from emotional abuse....if the two people aren't on the same page, share the same wants and desires and have issues with those of the other does love allow the other to be free to go and find others they can share that bond with on both ends or does love say supress yourself for "me"......anytime a person feels supressed off the wall behaviors will eventually exhibit themselves consciously or subconsciously in forms of resentment, bitterness etc.....and thats also the freedom to allow him to decide whats more important to him...IF he loved you and only wanted to be with you, love would be him expressing just that.....again...women say they want complete honesty....however for women who may have the idea that not expressing true feelings = to love for sake of emotional sanity is what true love is, and its not..its selfish loving....please protect my emotions and heart at all costs because I have given up all accountability for loving and taking care of my own emotions and heart and placed it onto you and we can be in love

as long as.....xyz.....

that is why its so very important to develop that unconditional loving relationship with yourself because when you are love you share it and give it without depending on another to be the sole source of it and the minute they "mess" up your whole world falls apart...then you will start experiencing outwards what you feel inside....the same way and vibes you feel will be what you draw to you to experience, and it will be conscious efforts and creating and you will know that you are "responsible" for what is happening to you, not anybody else....everybody is on a journey and we all discover ourselves in many different ways and not every action can be perfect when we have to consider that most people think we are supposed to give all responsibility of self to another person

i would disagree its always the man who wants things not "normal" in relationships....there are so many women who share different ideas and feelings on relationships that even some men can't handle...

 

[Syrah]

Here's the thing. If two people have an open marriage or bring other people into the sexual part of their marriage and everyone is truly okay with it, then I really can't say much. I would never have it be a part of mine, but if others are happy, then by all means, they can continue to do them.

The problem I'm having to a degree is this underlying idea that if a person flat out states that NO, THAT BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE, that somehow this woman is not "free" or truly doesn't understand "love." I guess I don't hear any talk about the sacrificial aspect of love -- all I'm hearing is how love is supposed to be the "freedom" to let others do what they want.

What about, "okay, I'd like to explore something with this other person, but I love my wife/husband so much that I will let go of my own selfish desire because I care about him/her."

That's what I consider love. It's self-sacrificing for the greater good and not getting caught up in one's own selfish desires. In these cases where a partner KNOWS his wife (cause we all know that's how it usually is) wouldn't like an open marriage, LOVE would be not bringing it up at all and not giving in to his desire to step out just because he can.

But of course, I know folks will say that's asking too much of a man, right?

...I really think it's about the freedom to define what constitutes love for you and your partner. Because really it can be flipped around, as many people are quick to say that two married people who choose to allow others in their lives are "nasty" "can't keep it in his pants" (usually pointed at the male) or "she knows she's going to be cheated on so she's just accepting it". It's no different on either end - as some folks on this thread have said. You're injecting your own views on marriage (that I share) - and therefore see the other side as "selfish" rather than simply having DIFFERENT VIEWS.

Really, IMO - Love is marrying someone who shares the same ideals that you do - and has conversations when the "boundaries" aren't so clear. So is "love" not bringing it up, or having enough self awareness to know that any successful marriage is rooted in two people who's ideals are the same?!

I really think if it was required to fill out a questionnaire that forced people to define the boundaries of their marriage and expectations, half the people who end up divorced probably never would've gotten married in the first place...

 

[Radianthealth]

Great read, I can feel my resistance to this idea just by reading through the thread :scratchch

Many things to ponder on, the thought that sticks with me the most is that couples define their own relationships

 

[alyn308]

Here's the thing. If two people have an open marriage or bring other people into the sexual part of their marriage and everyone is truly okay with it, then I really can't say much. I would never have it be a part of mine, but if others are happy, then by all means, they can continue to do them.

The problem I'm having to a degree is this underlying idea that if a person flat out states that NO, THAT BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE, that somehow this woman is not "free" or truly doesn't understand "love." I guess I don't hear any talk about the sacrificial aspect of love -- all I'm hearing is how love is supposed to be the "freedom" to let others do what they want.

What about, "okay, I'd like to explore something with this other person, but I love my wife/husband so much that I will let go of my own selfish desire because I care about him/her."

That's what I consider love. It's self-sacrificing for the greater good and not getting caught up in one's own selfish desires. In these cases where a partner KNOWS his wife (cause we all know that's how it usually is) wouldn't like an open marriage, LOVE would be not bringing it up at all and not giving in to his desire to step out just because he can.

But of course, I know folks will say that's asking too much of a man, right?

Well, I was just speaking on my experience with people in an open marriage...but, I will say that I think that the term "open marriage/relationship" is thrown around a lot by people who just want to have sex with someone else(cheating)....and that's really not what it's about...you don't just wake up one morning and decide you want to sleep with Shelia from 7-11.

To the bolded- I hope that's not what you got from my post...if someone doesn't want to be in an open marriage-they shouldn't be in one. No woman or man should have to put up with something that makes them uncomfortable. It aint for everybody...