Open Marriages

[ShaniKeys]

From what I've heard, yes. But again, to what extent their relationship through ACTION is "open" remains to be seen.

You have to remember, "open" marriages are nothing more than a stipulation, until there's actions taken.

Well, before I even opened this thread the first thing that came to mind was: Will&Jada. I've heard them sort of alledge to it too, but they're never really clear about this that's why I wanted to hear from others. Anyway I think open marriages are C-R-A-Z-Y (esp. for married folks WITH children) and this is one of the reasons why Will&Jada did not make my favorite celeb couples list

 

[dannie]

What's natural, for humans, is the choice, not the subjugation and blame-the-biology excuse.

And that's the thing I've found. The 2 folks that I know who are open relationships are more in touch with their selves than 99% of the people that I meet. They can tell you EXACTLY why they got married... how many married people can really truly do that openly and honestly, without fear of judgment? Shoot...how many people can sit with their partners and discuss why they really truly got married, without fear of judgment?

What I DO like about open relationships are the steps that 2 people take to define what their relationship will mean to each other - not society, or the IRS man, God, or mom and dad or the couple down the street, but to each other. I think these are steps that are so often forgotten in relationships. Folks operate under assumptions, especially the assumption that their partner feels the same way, when in reality, thats not the case.

I'm an Aquarius so I feel the whole "let us define what we have" thing. But bonking other people because we're all open and free spirited. IDK. I couldnt deal with it.

 

[ShaniKeys]

I'm an Aquarius so I feel the whole "let us define what we have" thing. But bonking other people because we're all open and free spirited. IDK. I couldnt deal with it.

I had a relationship like that with my ex, that's the only kind of relationship I can deal with to be honest, but it certainly wasn't an 'open relationship' thing

 

[Allandra]

I heard this mentioned about Monique before. I wonder if it was her idea or her husband's idea.

 

[Allandra]

I consider the 3-7 p.m. period in which Mo'Nique and Michael Baisden air as the coonin' hours on the radio.

Just sayin...

Yeah, you could say that.

 

[JustKiya]

What I DO like about open relationships are the steps that 2 people take to define what their relationship will mean to each other - not society, or the IRS man, God, or mom and dad or the couple down the street, but to each other. I think these are steps that are so often forgotten in relationships. Folks operate under assumptions, especially the assumption that their partner feels the same way, when in reality, thats not the case.

Yes! Yes! Such a vital part that most people miss - most open marriages are amazingly self-defined, and while they share some similarities with a standard marriage - it's really about what works for THOSE two people.

sex, sexualilty, passion, living and love are things alot of people have no clue of what it really is...we know what selfishness, jealousy, limiting, binding, trapping, settling and immobolizing is (alot of us refer to alot of those same things as love ironically)...

......

its not for everybody
it can be the best type of relationship for certain folks or the worst type of one for others

*smiles*

Open marriages can work, but they are many, many, many more orders of magnitude to make work than closed marriages are. Think of all of the issues that closed marriages have, and the divorce rate there - the rate of divorce/breakup/implosion in open marriages tends to be even higher.

But when it works? It's an - it's an truly amazing, and loving thing. And yes, it's often very sexual as well, but a lot of times - it's not all about screwing other people.

I've been around a lot of people in open marriages (over 50 couples, at a minimum) and I can only think of 3 or so that worked and seemed healthy and lasted over a period of time.

The rest were thinly veiled cheaters, or people making a last stand to save a dying relationship, or people who didn't really love each other - just tolerated each other and their marriage was 'comfy'. Once one or the other found someone else to really love, though, it fell apart.

It takes a hell of a lot of honestness, openness, and maturity to run an open marriage.


Now. For all of you saying you wouldn't want an open marriage, are ya'll opposed to polygamy/polygny as well?

 

[Zaynab]

Listening to the Monique show and she admits to having an open marriage with her husband. Has anyone known of someone who had an open marriage or has one?

Monique was mentioning that you should discuss open marriage initally before getting married. She gave some examples, like a black ski trip or trip to the islands and you might want to get a little something something.

Monique has an open marriage WOW I had no idea.

I find the idea to be disgusting actually. It seems pointless to get married or rather selfish-like you're only getting married for the couple benefits, and not necesarrily intimate love and a relationship. It's interesting though that the people that do it, seem to like it. It's not for me.

 

[tiara76]

Yes! Yes! Such a vital part that most people miss - most open marriages are amazingly self-defined, and while they share some similarities with a standard marriage - it's really about what works for THOSE two people.



*smiles*

Open marriages can work, but they are many, many, many more orders of magnitude to make work than closed marriages are. Think of all of the issues that closed marriages have, and the divorce rate there - the rate of divorce/breakup/implosion in open marriages tends to be even higher.

But when it works? It's an - it's an truly amazing, and loving thing. And yes, it's often very sexual as well, but a lot of times - it's not all about screwing other people.

I've been around a lot of people in open marriages (over 50 couples, at a minimum) and I can only think of 3 or so that worked and seemed healthy and lasted over a period of time.

The rest were thinly veiled cheaters, or people making a last stand to save a dying relationship, or people who didn't really love each other - just tolerated each other and their marriage was 'comfy'. Once one or the other found someone else to really love, though, it fell apart.

It takes a hell of a lot of honestness, openness, and maturity to run an open marriage.


Now. For all of you saying you wouldn't want an open marriage, are ya'll opposed to polygamy/polygny as well?

I wholeheartedly agree ^^.....outside of mentioning the folks who pretend to be okay, there are also the couples who have open marriages but aren't married because of love.....there is a whole host of other reasons they are married for besides true love (and that goes people in non open marriages as well) and when it comes to the point when one or the other finds somebody they truly feel that love and connection with its definitely all to the bad,....... out of all the married people I know I can only count a handful who are truly happy and really truly unconditionally loving, growing, passionate and happy together...and thats open and closed....to me it seems alot people can't handle being "regular" married, much less openly married.....it would have to be strong highly evolved emotional spiritual people to be able to have that sort of relationship with openess to others while keeping the bond between them growing

I just read up not to long ago on polyamory, I think....different polygamy in the sense its not just one dude having a handful of wives...but more than two people who are in relationships,

 

[MizAvalon]

I wholeheartedly agree ^^.....outside of mentioning the folks who pretend to be okay, there are also the couples who have open marriages but aren't married because of love.....there is a whole host of other reasons they are married for besides true love (and that goes people in non open marriages as well) and when it comes to the point when one or the other finds somebody they truly feel that love and connection with its definitely all to the bad,....... out of all the married people I know I can only count a handful who are truly happy and really truly unconditionally loving, growing, passionate and happy together...and thats open and closed....to me it seems alot people can't handle being "regular" married, much less openly married.....it would have to be strong highly evolved emotional spiritual people to be able to have that sort of relationship with openess to others while keeping the bond between them growing

I just read up not to long ago on polyamory, I think....different polygamy in the sense its not just one dude having a handful of wives...but more than two people who are in relationships,

I definitely agree with this. Most couples would never be able to survive an open marriage. Closed marriages are difficult enough and sadly, most of those aren't doing too hot as it is.

 

[Syrah]

...just wanted to put it out that, that because I'm curious about the mechanics of open marriages, and would love to sit and ask questions doesn't mean that I'm an advocate - nor does it mean that I'm saying that conversations about the definition of a relationship as it relates to two people can only occur in an open relationship.

...it just seems to be a facit that is REQUIRED in an open marriage, that so many folks skip in "closed" marriages based on external prescriptions of what marriage is.

ANd I don't know where this notion that "open" folks are running around screwing every Tom, Dick and Suzanne that crosses their path.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

What's natural, for humans, is the choice, not the subjugation and blame-the-biology excuse.

And that's the thing I've found. The 2 folks that I know who are open relationships are more in touch with their selves than 99% of the people that I meet. They can tell you EXACTLY why they got married... how many married people can really truly do that openly and honestly, without fear of judgment? Shoot...how many people can sit with their partners and discuss why they really truly got married, without fear of judgment?

What I DO like about open relationships are the steps that 2 people take to define what their relationship will mean to each other - not society, or the IRS man, God, or mom and dad or the couple down the street, but to each other. I think these are steps that are so often forgotten in relationships. Folks operate under assumptions, especially the assumption that their partner feels the same way, when in reality, thats not the case.

The bolded is a great point. I think the reason that occurs with some open marriages isn't because they are more natural or right, but because an open marriage forces the couple to talk about the rules and expectations because the very nature of such a relationship is about breaking "rules" (at least traditional ones) and making sure each person is on the same page. In reality that is what all couples should do. Don't assume, ask, ask, ask, talk, talk, talk, talk.

 

[SelahOco]

Ruby Dee and Ozzie on Their Open Marriage

Ossie: "It occurred to us, from observation and reasoning, that extramarital sex was not what really destroyed marriages, but rather the lies and deception that invariably accompanied it -- that was the culprit. So we decided to give ourselves permission to sleep with other partners if we wished -- as long as what we did was honest as well as private, and that neither of us exposed the family to scandal or disease. We had to be discreet and, if the word can be apt, honorable in our behavior, both to ourselves, to whomever else might be involved, and most of all, to the family. And for the most part, we were."
Source: Joint biography, page 317

Ossie: "But looking back, I'd say no matter what did or did not happen, we freed each other. And in doing that, we also freed ourselves...Sex is fine, but love is better. That's the most important part of being free. In light of what we learned, is extramarital sex something we recommend as a regular part of marriage? Not now...not anymore. Not since AIDS has entered the equation, and genital herpes, syphilis, and other veneral diseases..."
Source: Joint biography, page 323-324

Ruby: "But, we both came to realize that we were very fortunate that, in all of the deep profound, fundamental ways, we really, really only wanted each other. It was like a rediscovery of something from the beginning. It's not something that you'd recommend to everybody. But often Ossie has said - and I've though too - the best way to have somebody is to let it go. If it doesn't come back you are free in another kind of sense - in that you find the strength to let go and wish somebody well. So, we thought an open marriage was appropriate for us but it turned out not to be. But then that's what we're all about, we are moving from one position to another in the process of trying to unravel this thing call life."

Source: http://marriage.about.com/od/quotes/a/ossierubyopen.htm

 

[Mortons]

I've never understood why people MUST have new vagina or penis. How was it so different from the nice clean one you have laying next to you. If open marriages are about sex, i just dont understand that.

 

[tiara76]

Ruby Dee and Ozzie on Their Open Marriage

Ossie: "It occurred to us, from observation and reasoning, that extramarital sex was not what really destroyed marriages, but rather the lies and deception that invariably accompanied it -- that was the culprit. So we decided to give ourselves permission to sleep with other partners if we wished -- as long as what we did was honest as well as private, and that neither of us exposed the family to scandal or disease. We had to be discreet and, if the word can be apt, honorable in our behavior, both to ourselves, to whomever else might be involved, and most of all, to the family. And for the most part, we were."
Source: Joint biography, page 317

Ossie: "But looking back, I'd say no matter what did or did not happen, we freed each other. And in doing that, we also freed ourselves...Sex is fine, but love is better. That's the most important part of being free. In light of what we learned, is extramarital sex something we recommend as a regular part of marriage? Not now...not anymore. Not since AIDS has entered the equation, and genital herpes, syphilis, and other veneral diseases..."
Source: Joint biography, page 323-324

Ruby: "But, we both came to realize that we were very fortunate that, in all of the deep profound, fundamental ways, we really, really only wanted each other. It was like a rediscovery of something from the beginning. It's not something that you'd recommend to everybody. But often Ossie has said - and I've though too - the best way to have somebody is to let it go. If it doesn't come back you are free in another kind of sense - in that you find the strength to let go and wish somebody well. So, we thought an open marriage was appropriate for us but it turned out not to be. But then that's what we're all about, we are moving from one position to another in the process of trying to unravel this thing call life."

Source: http://marriage.about.com/od/quotes/a/ossierubyopen.htm

true unconditional love is freedom...one of the hardest things for people to do for another person they claim to love...can also become one of the grandest things that take them to higher heights.....whether they have to go about it in ways that may on the surface level seem "destroying" is actually building...i think when people really feel that unconditional loving bond with another...its often times enough with just that other person than not...

as we evolve through these sorts of emotions and dealing with issues such as sex, i do feel there are states we go thru...and you get to certain levels which alot of folks aren't at yet where you do realize its never really about sex in itself...its two whole people in mind body and spirit connecting with the other to become one, and when that feeling is achieved with two people, to go back downwards to even levels of passionate connections with others isn't even what they want....people get there or dont get there in several different routes

 

[SleekandBouncy]

What!? Ruby and Ossie!? It seems like all my favorite veteran hollywood marriages are open marriages. That's cool for them 'n such, but it's sort of depressing because it makes it seem like to last they have to be open or get divorced years later over adultery

 

[JFemme]

Wow. A most interesting discussion up in here...

 

[hopeful]

Wow. A most interesting discussion up in here...

LOL.


.........

 

[SelahOco]

What!? Ruby and Ossie!? It seems like all my favorite veteran hollywood marriages are open marriages. That's cool for them 'n such, but it's sort of depressing because it makes it seem like to last they have to be open or get divorced years later over adultery

I feel you on this...

I think what these kinds of stories do for me is what I think our parents/society have not done for us as a whole. It gives you the real about marriage and the challenges that marriages face.

Marriage is not one-note, and you're not going to stay with one person for 50 years and not have some stuff to deal with. But people are rarely honest about their stuff. We all keep out stuff a secret (and with good reason sometimes cause people in yo business is not pretty).

DH said this to me once...he said "Oco, do you really think that there is any couple out there that doesn't have these kinds of stories to tell? Regrets? Lies? Infidelities?"

And I thought about it! People can't even be friends for years and years without some sort of drama...and that's just a fraction of what it takes to be married to someone. Bonded to them..their issues, hopes, failures, desires, sinfulness, blessings, forgiveness....

I certainly don't think you have to have an open marriage to get to this place of openess...but I do think that a certain amount of "un-ideal-ness" is a part of everyone's marriage. Same as being single...but twice over.

I'm just getting to this place where I'm trying to get as realistic as I can about what marriage is, and what it takes to truely love and be partners with a flawed person. I'm trying to get more honest about my flaws....trying to learn how to manage my own desires, curiosities (sexual and otherwise).

I just think we have to get more honest about what it is...and can be.

 

[JFemme]

I feel you on this...

I think what these kinds of stories do for me is what I think our parents/society have not done for us as a whole. It gives you the real about marriage and the challenges that marriages face.

Marriage is not one-note, and you're not going to stay with one person for 50 years and not have some stuff to deal with. But people are rarely honest about their stuff. We all keep out stuff a secret (and with good reason sometimes cause people in yo business is not pretty).

DH said this to me once...he said "Oco, do you really think that there is any couple out there that doesn't have these kinds of stories to tell? Regrets? Lies? Infidelities?"

And I thought about it! People can't even be friends for years and years without some sort of drama...and that's just a fraction of what it takes to be married to someone. Bonded to them..their issues, hopes, failures, desires, sinfulness, blessings, forgiveness....

I certainly don't think you have to have an open marriage to get to this place of openess...but I do think that a certain amount of "un-ideal-ness" is a part of everyone's marriage. Same as being single...but twice over.

I'm just getting to this place where I'm trying to get as realistic as I can about what marriage is, and what it takes to truely love and be partners with a flawed person. I'm trying to get more honest about my flaws....trying to learn how to manage my own desires, curiosities (sexual and otherwise).

I just think we have to get more honest about what it is...and can be.

And let the church say, Amen....

 

[SelahOco]

And let the church say, Amen....

I know...it's the truth but once I re-read it, I was like...dang...did I say that out loud?

 

[tiara76]

I feel you on this...

I think what these kinds of stories do for me is what I think our parents/society have not done for us as a whole. It gives you the real about marriage and the challenges that marriages face.

Marriage is not one-note, and you're not going to stay with one person for 50 years and not have some stuff to deal with. But people are rarely honest about their stuff. We all keep out stuff a secret (and with good reason sometimes cause people in yo business is not pretty).

DH said this to me once...he said "Oco, do you really think that there is any couple out there that doesn't have these kinds of stories to tell? Regrets? Lies? Infidelities?"

And I thought about it! People can't even be friends for years and years without some sort of drama...and that's just a fraction of what it takes to be married to someone. Bonded to them..their issues, hopes, failures, desires, sinfulness, blessings, forgiveness....

I certainly don't think you have to have an open marriage to get to this place of openess...but I do think that a certain amount of "un-ideal-ness" is a part of everyone's marriage. Same as being single...but twice over.

I'm just getting to this place where I'm trying to get as realistic as I can about what marriage is, and what it takes to truely love and be partners with a flawed person. I'm trying to get more honest about my flaws....trying to learn how to manage my own desires, curiosities (sexual and otherwise).

I just think we have to get more honest about what it is...and can be.

i agree...some people say they want honesty , but what they can't really handle it when its put in their face...and rather live on fronts and illusions and pray to GOD that nothing ever happens to shatter them.....it takes alot of being honest with each self and each other, and sometimes the honest truth about true feelings, desires, issues "hurt" people too much so people try to keep it under wraps....every thing may not be cozy comfy feeling wise, but hurt passes and things can be taken head on worked out when honesty from the core is present within both parties

 

[ebonylocs]

For me, it's partially a question of how important sex is for the individual. Even as a single person, sex isn't a high priority for me, so I can't really see myself married and then going outside of the comfort of my relationship to have sex with someone new. That would just take too much effort, and the payoff, IMO is not very high.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

^^^ If I were to guess I would say that more men would vote in favor of open marriages and thus benefit from it. Though things are changing, historically it's men who have been most weak to the variety of flesh. I haven't yet decided if I believe it's nature or nurture (eg. they made the rules and gave themselves the most freedom).

 

[MizAvalon]

OcoLove, you know you just broke hearts all over this board by posting that about Ossie and Ruby right?

 

[SelahOco]

OcoLove, you know you just broke hearts all over this board by posting that about Ossie and Ruby right?

I know...SAW-WEE

But what I like about it is that they said it was something they thought was right for them, but ended up not being. And, like Sleek was saying...I think it was Ozzie that pushed for it...and it ended up being something they wouldn't continue.

But they made that mistake together...and they were able to recover from it. But it was still his fault...

 

[vestaluv1]

I can't from direct experience but I do have 2 friends who have both been in open relationships (one married, one dating - preparing for engagement). They view sex as an activity that can stimulate passion in various aspects of life and for various parties - not just the active participants. It's not only a physical act that 2 people embark on to deepen a connection, but an aspect of spirituality that has physical roots (if that makes sense).

Honestly, my girl, who's married and her husband are two of the most passionate people I've ever met. To this end, they exude the passion for life and self confidence that you rarely see or experience. A level of self acceptance that isn't based on external influences.

How do they do it?

A) They've committed to 100% honesty. They can mention the urges and attractions that they're having. To the point where my girl, a lawyer, was really attracted to one of her interns - she and I talked about it - and eventually she and her husband talked about it. Together they decided that this posed a threat to their relationship, due to the NATURE of her attraction, and within months she was able to transfer to a different office. Proactive. In my opinion, this is so stupid... We as humans are supposed to deal with the temptations of the world. What is she going to keep running away everytime this happens. I am suprised that they have an open marriage, but at the same time one of then will transfer to a different office for fear of having a relationship with a co-worker. It looks like they possibly want to have 'the choice of being promiscuous', but the other won't like it if there is a REAL attraction, REAL feelings and an emotional attachment for another as that would jeopardize the 'marriage'. GIVE ME A BREAK!

B) No they don't invite anybody and everybody into their bed. They are actually QUITE selective. And the actions are agreed upon BEFORE they take place, not after. It's not like "honey, today at lunch, I signed for a UPS package...oh yea, I effed the UPS lady!". Nah, it's something that is discussed. 'Selective' or not we all know that a lot of people in so called open marriages are not always forthright about their other activities with their partners. They pretend to be and use this so called honesty as a cover-up. If you have to discuss every selective encounter, then people in open marriages still have the option to cheat like other people so there will still be that worry for them. The only difference is that they've disrespected each other openly too.

C) As far as I know there have been 2 people they've invited into their relationship (both female) and these people have been consistent participants in their relationship prior to marriage, at different times, and were at the wedding. And sometimes when we get together as friends, both of these chicas are there. Its just wrong! Why did the girl have to transfer office's and this guy can roll around with three women at the same time... HELLO! What wrong with this woman.

They've been married going on 4 years and dated for 7 before getting married (high school and college sweethearts). No offence... she sounds desperate and maybe doesn't want to let go of her 'sweetheart'.

----------------------------
I highly doubt I could ever take it that far. Actually I know I couldn't. It takes a certain level of self-acceptance and trust that I simply don't possess. But I think there is something there in the recognition that vows before friends and family (and God, if you're spiritual about it) and a marriage license do not result in immediate changes. It's on a whole different level, but females who assume after getting married that their man will have eyes for her and only her are dillusional and stupid IMO.
Self-acceptance and trust are the wrong words here! I can have both whilst still respecting myself in a decent, 'closed' marriage.
Obviously, we all know that after marriage a man still has vision and will still look at others... HOWEVER, IMO, THE WHOLE POINT OF MARRIAGE IS TO STAY COMMITTED TO YOUR PARTNER IN SPITE OF TEMPTATION AND IF YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT, DON'T GET MARRIED. ITS LIKE PUNKS I KNOW WHO ARE THE WORST SET OF SINNERS WHO TALK ABOUT GETTING BAPTISED ONE MINUTE AND GO RIGHT BACK TO THEIR WAYS AN HOUR LATER . WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE? COME BACK TO THE THOUGHT AT A TIME WHEN YOU'VE GROWN UP AND REALISE THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS. IF YOUR'E NOT SERIOUS, FORGET ABOUT IT. ITS MUCH MORE OF A TRIUMPH TO HAVE A SUCCESFUL, TRUSTING MARRIAGE WITH NO BETRAYALS AND CHEATING THAN TO HAVE AN OPEN MARRIAGE... PLEASE!

Yeah, I'm done! On a positive note, its good they have a good level of communication, but there are EXTREMES!

 

[Allandra]

OcoLove, you know you just broke hearts all over this board by posting that about Ossie and Ruby right?

That's been posted on the LHCF before.

 

[Princess4real]

Yeah, I'm done! On a positive note, its good they have a good level of communication, but there are EXTREMES!

Good post and I agree with you. I believe men want open marriages more than women. I will never believe a woman wants this type of relationship and if she does, she's only going along with it either because she is trying to convince herself that she is in control and ok with the BS or she wants the freedom to freak other men. These are not beautiful relationships IMO and these types of people should just live together and freak whoever they want to freak instead of being married to each other. I wonder if they agree to marry because of the medical benefits? What is the purpose of them getting married? Can someone answer that for me if anyone has ever asked a couple who is in this type of relationship? TIA They love each other, but they can't seem to keep their hands off of other people.

 

[MD_Lady]

I don't have a problem with people who choose to have open marriages, however I take issue with the overused and invalid "animals don't mate for life so we weren't meant to either" approach to validating open marriages.

There are animals that mate for life so logically we have no more reason to believe we were meant to be part of the majority of animals (that don't mate for life) or the minority esp. since we already exhibit behavior not emulated by many other animals. It's possible we were designed for the flexibility born from individual choice and that means both lifestyle choices could be equally "natural" or not.

Me too. People's private lives reflect their personal choices. We're not animals and everyone seems to be on the same page with that until the conversation turns to something sexual. Unless we're going to start patterning our lives after animal behavior in OTHER aspects, people need to leave that comparison alone.

 

[Princess4real]

true unconditional love is freedom...one of the hardest things for people to do for another person they claim to love...can also become one of the grandest things that take them to higher heights.....whether they have to go about it in ways that may on the surface level seem "destroying" is actually building...i think when people really feel that unconditional loving bond with another...its often times enough with just that other person than not...

as we evolve through these sorts of emotions and dealing with issues such as sex, i do feel there are states we go thru...and you get to certain levels which alot of folks aren't at yet where you do realize its never really about sex in itself...its two whole people in mind body and spirit connecting with the other to become one, and when that feeling is achieved with two people, to go back downwards to even levels of passionate connections with others isn't even what they want....people get there or dont get there in several different routes

Why does unconditional love have to mean that the person is ok with his or her spouse having sex with other people? I bet some man came up with that, in order to make the woman feel guilty, for not wanting him to be with other another woman. Who decides what unconditional love means?