Ladies... Do you believe chivalry is dead?

[glamazon386]

I'm directing this more towards the younger women but everybody feel free to respond. I was having a conversation with one of my guy friends earlier (he's a good friend of mine) and it came up. He said something about wanting a girl to take him on a date. I thought he was joking but I guess not. I don't really know. I told him the man should take the lead. That's the proper way. And he was like it's 2007. Then he wanted to throw in there but what about women's rights? I feel like that's a cop out men use to get out of being a gentleman. I'm noticing that this is the trend with most men in my generation. They don't want to do all of that.

Personally, while I do agree that women should have equal rights in regards to some things like equal pay for the same jobs, voting, etc. that still doesn't mean that a man shouldn't hold the door open for you because you have arms. My dad still holds the door open for my mom and they've been married over 20 years. A man can still be your equal while maintaining his appropriate gender role as the man right? There are certain things I think men should do just like there are certain things women should do. Most men know what they should be doing that's why they do that stuff on the first date and whatever and then they don't do it anymore. Unless they truly have no home training, I think it's just a cop out.

Am I wrong for feeling that way? What do you think? Is Chivalry dead in your opinion? If so, why? or why not?

ETA: Please share your reasons and not just vote! Thanks!

 

[pink_flower]

It's not dead.

Men say junk like that but when they are REALLY interested in a woman they know how to act. Trust.

 

[frostydoll]

Hmm I don't think it's dead I've been around lots of guys who still do that.

At the same token I don't think your friend is wrong in saying that he wants a girl to take him out sometime. I do this if I really like a guy. I feel like it's nice to treat him every now and then and make him feel appreciated. I don't make this a regular thing and I don't do it extremely early in meeting them. But most guys find it different and think it's really sweet that I want to treat them or take them out.

*shrugs* Who knows if I'm right? I'm still single at the moment

 

[glamazon386]

Hmm I don't think it's dead I've been around lots of guys who still do that.

At the same token I don't think your friend is wrong in saying that he wants a girl to take him out sometime. I do this if I really like a guy. I feel like it's nice to treat him every now and then and make him feel appreciated. I don't make this a regular thing and I don't do it extremely early in meeting them. But most guys find it different and think it's really sweet that I want to treat them or take them out.

*shrugs* Who knows if I'm right? I'm still single at the moment

Lol I've done that before and it never worked out in my favor. Give me an old fashioned man. But seriously, most of the black men I'm friends with are like shoot women want to be equals and are making the same money we are why should we foot the bill for everything? And I look at them like Are you serious? But sadly, there are some chicks that go for this... Besides half the time when you meet them it's not really them. It's their representative. Later on things aren't always the same. A lot of young black men nowadays don't even want to go on a date. If you don't want to go on a date then you must not want to talk to me. Period.

 

[frostydoll]

Lol I've done that before and it never worked out in my favor. Give me an old fashioned man. But seriously, most of the black men I'm friends with are like shoot women want to be equals and are making the same money we are why should we foot the bill for everything? And I look at them like Are you serious? But sadly, there are some chicks that go for this... Besides half the time when you meet them it's not really them. It's their representative. Later on things aren't always the same. A lot of young black men nowadays don't even want to go on a date. If you don't want to go on a date then you must not want to talk to me. Period.

Yeah like I said I'm selective about it and it doesn't become a regular thing. For the most part those relationships didn't work out because of timing or we just realized we weren't compatible not because they were shady. You're right about demanding that respect though.

ETA: I also did it because we were both students and I know that we're all on a struggling budget so if they're taking me out ALL the time it won't kill me to do it once or twice.

 

[Bunny77]

It's not dead.

Men say junk like that but when they are REALLY interested in a woman they know how to act. Trust.

You know!

I was (still am?) talking to a 27-year-old earlier this year and he is VERY chivalrous. (Edited to add... and he's black.) He's always believed that there are certain things that a man SHOULD do for a woman. We were just on the phone last night and he was talking about how if he was dating a woman with a home, he'd cut her grass for her because he didn't believe that women should have to handle outside work.

Now, it's not that he doesn't think that women are not capable of cutting the grass, but he feels that it's something that as a man, he should handle. And back in my younger younger days (teens), I was Queen Feminist and might have thought him to be quite sexist. I'm still quite the feminist, but I'm a lot more settled now into the idea of embracing certain roles that men and women have had throughout history. Men LIKE to lead, so I'm gonna let them. I LIKE to nurture, so when I get the opportunity, I will.

That doesn't mean that I will accept sexist treatment or that I can't make more money than him (if our jobs happen to work that way) or that I will cater to his every need and desire, but if we just happen to fall into certain roles, so be it.

Now that I've seen chivalry, I won't be with a man who isn't that way. And the last few men I dealt with don't EVER want me to take them out... so I'll let them keep taking me out then... and show my appreciation in other ways that will make them happy.

 

[MzLady78]

Not totally dead, but on life support.

 

[glamazon386]

ETA: I also did it because we were both students and I know that we're all on a struggling budget so if they're taking me out ALL the time it won't kill me to do it once or twice.

That's cool. That was why I did it too. When I went to college my bf was still in hs (but we were the same age) and in the beginning of our rel I pretty much paid for everything. But once he got a full time job when he got out of school please believe it came back to me ten fold.

 

[Bunny77]

Yeah like I said I'm selective about it and it doesn't become a regular thing. For the most part those relationships didn't work out because of timing or we just realized we weren't compatible not because they were shady. You're right about demanding that respect though.

ETA: I also did it because we were both students and I know that we're all on a struggling budget so if they're taking me out ALL the time it won't kill me to do it once or twice.

Yeah, college is different. I treated my BF in college a few times and it was cool. He still did most of the work, but I paid for things at times and it was all good.

But a man in the real world with a job? Uh, he better be handling almost ALL of the expenses... I say almost because I am willing to treat, maybe, say, 5% of the time, but MOST of the men I date now don't want me to treat at all.

 

[dlewis]

I'm older and married but......................I'm sorry UMBlessedBeauty_1 (with your pretty self), I don't feel for any reason a woman should treat a man to dinner, lunch or a slice of pie.

I think chivalry is dying because young women think women and men should be equal. That "I can do this or that my damm self" should not always be voiced. Yes, I know and you know you can do it but does everyone else need to know. Women should learn how to be comfortable being women and let the man woe them, wine them and dine them. Don't let them not hold the door open for you. If he doesn't just stand there until he comes back and opens the door.

Some men don't know anything about this because they haven't been taught my their mothers and fathers, so if you want to be with him, you'll have to teach them.

 

[glamazon386]

I think chivalry is dying because young women think women and men should be equal. That "I can do this or that my damm self" should not always be voiced. Yes, I know and you know you can do it but does everyone else need to know. Women should learn how to be comfortable being women and let the man woe them, wine them and dine them.

DLewis this is how I feel!!

 

[sunshinelady]

I think that the woman has to establish chivalry as an expectation. She also has to do her part. Some men like a challenge and are willing to court you. Those are the men I want.

Dudes that act grudgingly get no love. My &$ssy is very sensitive and will dry up like the desert if I sense selfishness.

Now if you act right... eventuallytrampolin

 

[frostydoll]

I'm older and married but......................I'm sorry UMBlessedBeauty_1 (with your pretty self), I don't feel for any reason a woman should treat a man to dinner, lunch or a slice of pie.

I think chivalry is dying because young women think women and men should be equal. That "I can do this or that my damm self" should not always be voiced. Yes, I know and you know you can do it but does everyone else need to know. Women should learn how to be comfortable being women and let the man woe them, wine them and dine them. Don't let them not hold the door open for you. If he doesn't just stand there until he comes back and opens the door.

Some men don't know anything about this because they haven't been taught my their mothers and fathers, so if you want to be with him, you'll have to teach them.

Awww thanks

I have to admit you're right and it might have something to do with my upbringing. My mom taught me to be independent and the whole I don't need a man for anything mentality, which was countered by my grandmother telling me to let that boy pay for me or take me out so I'm usually confused lol. Ironically, my mom teaches my little brothers to take care of their sisters even though most of us are older than them. Maybe she really wanted a man to do that but my dad never really stepped up to the plate so she's trying to train them to do it.

 

[MzLady78]

I think that the woman has to establish chivalry as an expectation. She also has to do her part. Some men like a challenge and are willing to court you. Those are the men I want.

Dudes that act grudgingly get no love. My &$ssy is very sensitive and will dry up like the desert if I sense selfishness.

Now if you act right... eventuallytrampolin

LMAO!!!!!! Too funny!!!!

 

[camellia]

It's not dead, but I personally think it's highly overrated.

Most of the guys I dated were older and it seemed to be second nature for them to open doors, pay for meals out, help me into my coat, seat me at tables... All of those little things some women love.

Chivalry was never on my short list of qualities for my ideal man to have, though. Maybe my mother raised me with too many feminist values. I'm just not big on "men need to be men, and they need to do xyz..." "women need to let them do xyz..." I'm not big on "traditional" gender roles. If I want to buy a man dinner I will.

 

[dlewis]

I think that the woman has to establish chivalry as an expectation. She also has to do her part. Some men like a challenge and are willing to court you. Those are the men I want.

Dudes that act grudgingly get no love. My &$ssy is very sensitive and will dry up like the desert if I sense selfishness.

Now if you act right... eventuallytrampolin

I agree................

When I was in high school I dated a guy that lived in a neighboring community about 15 miles outside of Natchez. Everyone thought this boy was a fool. For two years, every other Saturday he would walk and hitch a ride to my house for a two hour visit. His mother was old school and believe if he wanted to get there he would find a way, and my mother def wasn't gonna pick him up. We dated for two years and sex only came up (I forget) maybe twice. He never pushed the issue and waited, but we eventually broke up. Now I wish....................but anyways he courted me in everyway. Working and paying his brother to take us out.

Even when I was in my 20's I never allowed a guy to visit me after a certain time. Even once I had my son by my husband, he couldn't just drop by my home after a certain time. And after I said no the first time he rearrange his schedule to suit mine.

We have to set the standard we expect.

 

[frostydoll]

I think that the woman has to establish chivalry as an expectation. She also has to do her part. Some men like a challenge and are willing to court you. Those are the men I want.

Dudes that act grudgingly get no love. My &$ssy is very sensitive and will dry up like the desert if I sense selfishness.

Now if you act right... eventuallytrampolin

 

[frostydoll]

It's not dead, but I personally think it's highly overrated.

Most of the guys I dated were older and it seemed to be second nature for them to open doors, pay for meals out, help me into my coat, seat me at tables... All of those little things some women love.

Chivalry was never on my short list of qualities for my ideal man to have, though. Maybe my mother raised me with too many feminist values. I'm just not big on "men need to be men, and they need to do xyz..." "women need to let them do xyz..." I'm not big on "traditional" gender roles. If I want to buy a man dinner I will.

See this is another viewpoint that makes me even more confused. I hate feeling like I'm being boxed into a certain role and I don't want to box them in either. BUT I also like my door being opened and taken out on nice dates, etc.

 

[Arcadian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry


I guess it has plenty of different meanings for different situations

Romance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalric_romance

Warriors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior_code


I think that people don't respect each other as much as they used to though (that goes for men and women)



-A

 

[camellia]

See this is another viewpoint that makes me even more confused. I hate feeling like I'm being boxed into a certain role and I don't want to box them in either. BUT I also like my door being opened and taken out on nice dates, etc.

Sorry, not trying to confuse anyone, this is just the way I see it.

I've known men who wouldn't get a door for a pregnant woman loaded down with bags and packages. That's just rude, IMO.

But on the other side, those men who rush to open the door for me even though they have an armful of stuff and are farther away from the door than I am, irk me.

Maybe I've run into that type too often. I'm not helpless, and I really don't like playing into the stereotype of "delicate flower in need of protection that only as man can offer". It's outdated and unnecessary in my book.

I like a polite man just as much as the next, but please, don't break your neck grabbing for the bill when I invited you to lunch, and I know perfectly well that you're a struggling artist/student without the money to spare.


I'd rather spend my time fighting for equal pay for women, than demand some man open my car door for me.

 

[Bunny77]

I get what you're saying Camellia, and I think you have a good point regarding the situations you mentioned!

 

[frostydoll]

Sorry, not trying to confuse anyone, this is just the way I see it.

I've known men who wouldn't get a door for a pregnant woman loaded down with bags and packages. That's just rude, IMO.

But on the other side, those men who rush to open the door for me even though they have an armful of stuff and are farther away from the door than I am, irk me.

Maybe I've run into that type too often. I'm not helpless, and I really don't like playing into the stereotype of "delicate flower in need of protection that only as man can offer". It's outdated and unnecessary in my book.

I like a polite man just as much as the next, but please, don't break your neck grabbing for the bill when I invited you to lunch, and I know perfectly well that you're a struggling artist/student without the money to spare.


I'd rather spend my time fighting for equal pay for women, than demand some man open my car door for me.

Oh I didn't mean you confused me. I meant that the fact that I agree with you as well confuses me. I guess I need to figure out what exactly I want lol.

 

[dlewis]

That's right UMBB, you have to figure out what's important to you. Everyone doesn't want the same things in a man or in life. That's what makes life interesting.

 

[frostydoll]

That's right UMBB, you have to figure out what's important to you. Everyone doesn't want the same things in a man or in life. That's what makes life interesting.

I think this is why I don't have a SO right now even though I really want one because I'm still confused as to what I want from one.

 

[calliope]

Sometimes, I think it's alive and well like when men open the door for you or help you with a heavy package. Others times, I feel that it's no where to be found like when I'm on a packed train, very obviously pregnant, and holding on to an overhead rail for dear life while young able-bodied men lounge in their seats without offering to get up at all. Oh well, we've done this to ourselveserplexed .

 

[janiebaby]

I'm older and married but......................I'm sorry UMBlessedBeauty_1 (with your pretty self), I don't feel for any reason a woman should treat a man to dinner, lunch or a slice of pie.

I think chivalry is dying because young women think women and men should be equal. That "I can do this or that my damm self" should not always be voiced. Yes, I know and you know you can do it but does everyone else need to know. Women should learn how to be comfortable being women and let the man woe them, wine them and dine them. Don't let them not hold the door open for you. If he doesn't just stand there until he comes back and opens the door.

Some men don't know anything about this because they haven't been taught my their mothers and fathers, so if you want to be with him, you'll have to teach them.

c/s to the fullest!!!

 

[dorko]

after meeting this dude
i don't think it is dead lol

this man holds the door open for me, pulls me to the inside when walking down the street, puts me first all the time even if he's aggravated with me
but at the same time.. we are go half on alot of things..so he doesn't overwhelm me with it

i like it

 

[dorko]

Oops!
double post...

 

[CinnaMocha]

Whenever I meet a man, I always let him know that I don't think chilvary is dead...IMO, I've made the mistake of wanting to take the lead and be a woman of today, but to no avail...When I got over that I realized how much I like when a man opens the door for me and the like...and in turn I will do my part to make things interesting...And it really all depends on what you bring to the table in the present...As for me, galant chivalrous men need only apply...

 

[Kiadodie]

Not totally dead, but on life support.

That was cute.. but so true