Is it easier to stay natural if you have curls vs. napps?

[Netta1]

I knew it!! I knew it was going to go there no matter how objective this thread started out.
I knew that the "yo' mind set just aint right" argument, would pop it's head up in here, whereby folks indulge in arm-chair psychology, try to imply who has the right mind set for going natural and who doesn't.

So when I went from relaxed to natural, then my mind set wasn't right to be a permie??

So when people say that they have difficulty with their hair especially 4b hair, why is something is implied about their mentality towards naturalness????

More later...
Gotta leave work right now.....

Let me ask you an honest question.....

Do you think that the mind plays a significant role in the functionality of the human body including our ability think and reason?

 

[hotshot]

ha, netta, that's funny.

A few thoughts on 'mentality'

Alot of us hear on hair boards that type 4 hair has certain qualities and, whether we like nappy hair or not, become conditioned to believe its harder to care for. That's one mentality.

Alot of well meaning nappies proudly flaunt the idea that their nappy hair is "delicate", and harder to manage, it makes them seem more "hard core nappy". That's another mentality.

Some ppl are secretly dead set on believing they are a "hair matryr": they are making some sacrifice (in this case, having "manageable hair", to prove some greater point (nappy hair is better.) That's one more mentality.

there are alot of reasons to really want nappy hair, but to have been indoctrinated with an idea that its difficult. and this, is what we mean when we speak of "mentality." Its not some "authentic" vs "sellout" thing. Its a question of what do you truly BELIEVE to be the traits of your hair in its natural state.

 

[larry3344]

The big debate of naps vs curls lol. I know this is an old thread but I have my opinion on this and using myself as an experiment. It is true for a long time many black women who have been used to chemical processing have NOT learned how to properly care for their hair. The natural hair movement has helped in providing access to that info and has made a lot of women realized their hair is not as ugly/hard to manage as they had previously thought.

HOWEVER....I firmly believe that not all natural hair is made equal. Yes, there is a hair texture hierarchy BUT women who complain about their hair's coarseness/lack of manageability cannot all be self haters. Kinkier hair is more fragile and prone to breakage compared to other less kinky afro-textured hair, that is fact.

I see a lot of vitamins and hair growth serums on the market but there should really be a vitamin that can help black women with coarser hair textures, grow hair that is less kinky and coarse in texture. I have coarse hair that has the ability to coil which fools people into thinking that my hair is soft when it is not. I suspect that many black women who struggle with retention is due to breakage rather than rate of growth which is often is due to kinkier hair.

It is not to say that kinkier hair cannot grow long, but it tends to demand more care than hair that is less kinky/softer in hair texture. There is no shame in admitting that fact. If one can determine what causes hair to kink in afro textured hair and diminish it's characteristic, more black women will desert hair relaxers and even fake hair.

E.T.A: I do not believe that black women use chemical treatments/fake hair as heavily as we do only because we love the diversity. Why? The less kinky the hair, the less the woman is proned to do the above, from what I have observed. Most who are addicted to weave/chemical treatments (where you never see their hair) tend to be on the kinkier spectrum of afro hair. That is why subconsciously some women may not think that curly haired women really have experienced hair struggle/discrimination compared to women with kinky-curly/coily hair

I have touched the hair of other fellow black women (all african, non biracial) and their hair was very soft, still afro to the naked eye but with a softer texture. Ever since then, I have been on a pursuit of a hair vitamin cocktail that would soften my hair texture internally rather than coating it with hair lotions that just makes it oily. I experienced it once my hair softening when I was taking MSM (i was not aware of its effects then), the texture of my hair was changing as it grew; softer, less prone to tangles, remained moisturized and less prone to breakage.

I realized then that not all afro-textured hair is created equal and that the women who harp about how tough their hair is may have a certain need that someone could cater to and make a killing.Not everything is the result of self-hatred, some people really do struggle with some things and would be better served with the right "product" that can answer those needs rather than derision.

Also, people often conflate strand texture with curl pattern which aren't the same thing. I am experimenting with my hair and attempting to document these results via my blog.

Contributors of hair fragility in black hair (according to my observation):
1) kinks (create stress points and diminish elasticity/pliability)
2) size of curl pattern (smaller the curl the more prone to single strand knots
3) thickness of a hair strand (strands snap more easily)

FOOD for THOUGHT.

 

[beingofserenity]

The big debate of naps vs curls lol. I know this is an old thread but I have my opinion on this and using myself as an experiment. It is true for a long time many black women who have been used to chemical processing have NOT learned how to properly care for their hair. The natural hair movement has helped in providing access to that info and has made a lot of women realized their hair is not as ugly/hard to manage as they had previously thought.

HOWEVER....I firmly believe that not all natural hair is made equal. Yes, there is a hair texture hierarchy BUT women who complain about their hair's coarseness/lack of manageability cannot all be self haters. Kinkier hair is more fragile and prone to breakage compared to other less kinky afro-textured hair, that is fact.

I see a lot of vitamins and hair growth serums on the market but there should really be a vitamin that can help black women with coarser hair textures, grow hair that is less kinky and coarse in texture. I have coarse hair that has the ability to coil which fools people into thinking that my hair is soft when it is not. I suspect that many black women who struggle with retention is due to breakage rather than rate of growth which is often is due to kinkier hair.

It is not to say that can kinkier hair cannot grow long, but it tends to demand more care than hair is less kinky/softer hair texture. There is no shame in admitting that fact. If one can determine what causes hair to kinky in afro textured hair and diminish it's characteristic, more black women will desert hair relaxers and even fake hair.

E.T.A: I do not believe that black women use chemical treatments/fake hair as heavily as we do only to switch up our hairstyles. Why? The less kinky the hair, the less the woman is proned to the above, from what I am observed. Most who are addicted to weave/chemical treatments tend to be on the kinkier spectrum of afro hair. That is why subconsciously some women may not think that curly haired women really have experienced hair struggle/discrimination compared to women with kinky-curly/coily hair

I have touched the hair of other fellow black women (all african, non biracial) and their hair was very soft, still afro to the naked eye but with softer texture. Ever since then, I have been on a pursuit of a hair vitamin cocktail that would soften my hair texture internally rather than coating it with hair lotions that just makes it oily. I experienced once tmy hair softening when I was taking MSM, the texture of my hair was changing as it grew hair; softer, less prone to tangles, remained moisturized and less prone to breakage.

I realized then that not all afro-textured hair is created equal and that the women who harp about how tough their hair is may have a certain need that someone could cater to and make a killing.Not everything is the result of self-hatred, some people really do struggle with some things and would be better served with the right "product" that can answer those needs rather than derision.

Also, people often conflate strand texture with curl pattern which aren't the same thing. I am experimenting with my hair and attempting to document these results via my blog.

Contributors of hair fragility in black hair (according to my observation):
1) kinks (create stress points and diminish elasticity/pliability)
2) size of curl pattern (smaller the curl the more prone to single strand knots
3) thickness of a hair strand (strands snap more easily)



FOOD for THOUGHT.

Have you also considered that you just don't know how to manage your hair yet?
Can you give details on what you do?

 

[larry3344]

Have you also considered that you just don't know how to manage your hair yet?
Can you give details on what you do?

My hair grew...that is not the issue. Some of my strands are really kinky coarse or others are really smooth.

No amount of hair cream could change the natural texture of those strands. Even when i applied lotion it was a temporary fix.

 

[beingofserenity]

My hair grew...that is not the issue. Some of my strands are really kinky coarse or others are really smooth.

No amount of hair cream could change the natural texture of those strands. Even when i applied lotion it was a temporary fix.

I feel like you are projecting your personal issues with your hair onto other black women. People can have coarse hair regardless of hair type. I don't think that is necessarily an issue that needs to be fixed. But if you want softer hair, the types of creams/conditioners that you use, or the way you use them, may not be compatible with your hair. I used to think that I had impossible hair too, turns out I was just using the wrong stuff and not really taking care of it the way I should.

 

[larry3344]

I feel like you are projecting your personal issues with your hair onto other black women. People can have coarse hair regardless of hair type. I don't think that is necessarily an issue that needs to be fixed. But if you want softer hair, the types of creams/conditioners that you use, or the way you use them, may not be compatible with your hair. I used to think that I had impossible hair too, turns out I was just using the wrong stuff and not really taking care of it the way I should.

I am sorry, if it sounds like thats what I am doing,that is not my intention. All of what I am saying is based on anecdotal evidence and my personal interactions with people. I love my hair and have been natural for nearly 10 years and do not intend on ever going back to relaxers. I just feel I am also a hair realist and this discourse brings out the elephant in the room.

I also think from a business standpoint there is a huge market for it and no I dont believe it all stems from self-hatred.

 

[naheda72]

I have been natural for about 9 years and the longer my hair the easier it is to take care of. I am a 4b and I don't have any issues taking care of it. The only area that needs work is my crown, it is rough and I believe it breaks, but a lot of people seem to have issues with their crowns, so I wouldn't attribute that to my hair texture. I don't have the feeling of hair inferiority nor do I wish my hair was straighter, silkier or curlier with one exception, when I want a roller set, because I don't want to use heat and I want my sets to be frizz free and smooth.

 

[MsSanz92]

I am sorry, if it sounds like thats what I am doing,that is not my intention. All of what I am saying is based on anecdotal evidence and my personal interactions with people. I love my hair and have been natural for nearly 10 years and do not intend on ever going back to relaxers. I just feel I am also a hair realist and this discourse brings out the elephant in the room.

I also think from a business standpoint there is a huge market for it and no I dont believe it all stems from self-hatred.

I think you have a point. I personally wouldn't want to use a product like that, because I've grown to love and appreciate the coarseness and thickness of my hair, but I do know because my hair is a coarse type 4, I have to be more careful than people who have type 3 or even silkier type 4 curls. I also know many Black women who would want a product that would at least soften or loosen their texture internally.

People continue to want to ignore the truth, but let's not act like coarse type 4 hair doesn't come with its own sets of challenges that type 3 or silkier type 4 hair doesn't. On the contrary, there are challenges that people with type 3 hair deal with that type 4 hair naturals don't (i.e. getting their braids to hold, fluffing out their hair for a fro, etc.) In my opinion, most Black women would not relax their hair if they had 3b/3c hair.

Now I do know many Black women who did or do have relaxers with type 3 hair and that's usually because they're biracial, and had non-Black mothers who had no clue how to manage thick curly type 3 hair, are Afro-Latina (in many Latino cultures ANY kind of curl in your hair makes your hair "bad"), or their hair was prone to frizzing. I don't think most Black people consider "good hair" naturally straight or even wavy hair, but probably hair that is 3b/3c, because of its versatility. It can straighten rather easily, but also can hold textured styles like braids and twists, albeit not as easily as type 4 hair, which the downside to that is that it's harder to straighten. I'm curious to see if it would be possible to formulate a vitamin that changes a person's hair texture

 

[larry3344]

I think you have a point. I personally wouldn't want to use a product like that, because I've grown to love and appreciate the coarseness and thickness of my hair, but I do know because my hair is a coarse type 4, I have to be more careful than people who have type 3 or even silkier type 4 curls. I also know many Black women who would want a product that would at least soften or loosen their texture internally.

People continue to want to ignore the truth, but let's not act like coarse type 4 hair doesn't come with its own sets of challenges that type 3 or silkier type 4 hair doesn't. On the contrary, there are challenges that people with type 3 hair deal with that type 4 hair naturals don't (i.e. getting their braids to hold, fluffing out their hair for a fro, etc.) In my opinion, most Black women would not relax their hair if they had 3b/3c hair.

Now I do know many Black women who did or do have relaxers with type 3 hair and that's usually because they're biracial, and had non-Black mothers who had no clue how to manage thick curly type 3 hair, are Afro-Latina (in many Latino cultures ANY kind of curl in your hair makes your hair "bad"), or their hair was prone to frizzing. I don't think most Black people consider "good hair" naturally straight or even wavy hair, but probably hair that is 3b/3c, because of its versatility. It can straighten rather easily, but also can hold textured styles like braids and twists, albeit not as easily as type 4 hair, which the downside to that is that it's harder to straighten. I'm curious to see if it would be possible to formulate a vitamin that changes a person's hair texture

Thank you!!! Some people are being intellectually dishonest out of fear of backlash or being called a self-hater. There is a huge business opportunity here that will set someone to be richer than the ones who invented botox. Why because there is need/demand for it. Not all black women/afro-textured women have a need for this product but some do and if that can help them stop using chemical treatment and excessive weave, why not?

If we are honest with ourselves many women who could grow their hair like the weaves/extensions that they wear would not have a need for relaxers/texturizers.

People need to acknowledge that there is a huge range of afro-textured variety even in type 4 category. I have seen type 4 hair that naturally very soft/silky and texture with great retention and some that is very coarse/fragile. I truly believe, it is the latter that tends to be more defeated in remaining natural and resort to going back to relaxers and excess weave/wigs use.

I want more black women to ditch chemical treatments and excessive weave use and I think that is what is going to change the game for many women of african descent.

 

[L.Brown1114]

I would assume so. I have two small patches of 4b hair within my 3c/4a curls. Those patches are annoying, and dry. lucklily my natural hair grows down and not up, so my 3c hair covers those patches. Otherwise I'd have to twist them every night to bland in when I do wash and goes. When my hair is shorter it blends in fine, it's when it gets longer where the different textures start to really show. If my hair was all the 4b I wouldn't be natural only because of how high maintenance my hair would be. My normal porosity hair is low maintenance and these patches aren't =(

 

[larry3344]

I would assume so. I have two small patches of 4b hair within my 3c/4a curls. Those patches are annoying, and dry. lucklily my natural hair grows down and not up, so my 3c hair covers those patches. Otherwise I'd have to twist them every night to bland in when I do wash and goes. When my hair is shorter it blends in fine, it's when it gets longer where the different textures start to really show. If my hair was all the 4b I wouldn't be natural only because of how high maintenance my hair would be. My normal porosity hair is low maintenance and these patches aren't =(

Thank you for your honesty. Now, imagine having a whole head of hair with that texture that you constantly have to take care of. This is why those who claim embrace your hair don't truly know the extent of variety of hair texture that exist and what some women with truly kinky hair have to deal with. This is why I am more sympathetic to the fact that not all black women detest their hair for the hell of it some truly struggle with it.

I strongly believe that this is the new development to the natural hair movement. I also want to make a distinction that I am an advocate for a hair vitamin that will soften hair strand not change the size curls from lets say a type 4 to type 3a. Often people confuse the two and they are not the same thing.

 

[beingofserenity]

I'm not being "intellectually dishonest." if your 4b/c hair is annoying in it's natural state, just press or blowdry

 

[larry3344]

I'm not being "intellectually dishonest." if your 4b/c hair is annoying in it's natural state, just press or blowdry

E.T.A: Ok. I was not speaking about you specifically. These conversations have been had before

https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/hair-straightening-pill.424720/#post-9549108

https://longhaircareforum.com/threa...a-pill-to-change-you-natural-4a-b-hair.89465/

https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/new-pill-by-loreal.71059/#post-1176420

Not to mention all the hair texture change caused by vitamins threads that have been discussed over the years.

I dont have 4b/c hair. I have 4a/b.

I respect the fact that you don't agree. I maintain my position...it isnt a conclusion I came to overnight and it has no bearing on my love of naturalness.

If i have been wearing my hair for 10 years than it stands to reason that i dont hate my hair.

My issue isnt that you disagree but you are being dismissive and assuming. This topic has gone on for 11 years even longer.

Everyone should be able to speak freely and bring their own perspectives. I know a fact that some people on this board may share my perspective and are too afraid to speak up out of assumption that they hate their hair when they are the ones living with it and know the struggles.

Thats not fair!

Still I appreciate your perspective.

 

[secretdiamond]

I'm reading my old posts here, & I'm ashamed. I can't say my thoughts have changed much (still relaxed), but I definitely could have said it in a more mature way. But I was 21 , so I forgive myself.

I still love natural hair and envy every single natural woman - curls, coils, or kinky. And, I still do prefer and lust over a huge, full, big head of natural 4b/c hair.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Since my posts in this thread 10 years ago, I finished transitioning was natural for a few years went back to relaxer, transitioned again and have been natural for 5 years. I've been wigging it up for 3 of those 5 years.

Nappy natural hair has never been easy for me. The long term result of detangling has rendered me tender headed. I've toyed with the thought of locking but I hate the idea of touch ups which is why I stopped perming. I also think that the majority of natural styles add 10 years to my face.

 

[larry3344]

Since my posts in this thread 10 years ago, I finished transitioning was natural for a few years went back to relaxer, transitioned again and have been natural for 5 years. I've been wigging it up for 3 of those 5 years.

Nappy natural hair has never been easy for me. The long term result of detangling has rendered me tender headed. I've toyed with the thought of locking but I hate the idea of touch ups which is why I stopped perming. I also think that the majority of natural styles add 10 years to my face.

If a vitamin could be formulated to soften your textured as it grows out which resulys in less tangles than you are used and better retention. Would you buy it?

Assuming it is well tested and made with mostly natural ingredients.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

If a vitamin could be formulated to soften your textured as it grows out which resulys in less tangles than you are used and better retention. Would you buy it?

Assuming it is well tested and made with mostly natural ingredients.

Honestly no. I have zero faith in vitamins that claim to do anything besides supplement basic nutrient/mineral guidelines. Not to be gross but I know from years of taking my multivitamin that my body will absorb what it needs and I just pee out the rest.

 

[larry3344]

Honestly no. I have zero faith in vitamins that claim to do anything besides supplement basic nutrient/mineral guidelines. Not to be gross but I know from years of taking my multivitamin that my body will absorb what it needs and I just pee out the rest.

Fair

 

[nyeredzi]

I just wish my hair was a tad easier. Texture, density, something! It's tiring. I don't think curl tightness is the whole story, though. For some people it seems to be a non-factor, lucky devils!

 

[larry3344]

I just wish my hair was a tad easier. Texture, density, something! It's tiring. I don't think curl tightness is the whole story, though. For some people it seems to be a non-factor, lucky devils!

Yup i know what you mean. Trust me with research something will come out to help those of us with these comcerns. How long have you been natural btw?

 

[Cattypus1]

For me, it is what I expected versus what actually grows up there. I had to manage my expectations. I have a bit of 3a at my nape and on one side and a small patch in the front. I have 4a on the other side and top and 4b at my crown...plus, I'm graying and some those hairs are bone straight. I'm a mess and each type behaves differently. I'm still getting used to it. I've been fully natural for 2 years.

 

[Anaisin]

Black women are so pressed to not admit they hate their hair that they project their own ill feelings of their hair on everyone else that seemingly has their hair type lmao it's extremely pathetic. Poor things

 

[nyeredzi]

Yup i know what you mean. Trust me with research something will come out to help those of us with these comcerns. How long have you been natural btw?

20+ years, lol

 

[larry3344]

Black women are so pressed to not admit they hate their hair that they project their own ill feelings of their hair on everyone else that seemingly has their hair type lmao it's extremely pathetic. Poor things

sorry if you felt that i was projecting it onto others...i speak with real people outside of this forum and these are some of the candid admissions that have been made because I did not judge them and automatically write it off as a self hate issue. I have come across people who really hate afro hair there is a big difference between that and those that have hair concerns. If white women can have a million products that caters to their needs...why can't black women?

Can i ask you, do you have kinky type 4 hair that tends to dry and break. Do you wear your hair natural? I find that people are more understanding and less dismissive when they fall in either categories.

 

[SmilingElephant]

To be honest...I was hoping for kinks like the rest of my family when I went natural. I thought I was finally going to fit in.

But my great grandma caught up with me and said "NOPE!"

I love kinky coily hair and I feel sad when ppl who have it say they don't like it bc it's so beautiful and different to me.

I have my own patch of kinks at my nape and I love playing in it...but nobody ever really sees it bc it's underneath my curls and it's not super kinky...it's like 3c/4a

 

[SmilingElephant]

I think it depends on the person. As a curly head natural, I can do wash n gos w/ no problem. I can't braid or twist to save my life. I love seeing those styles on others and wish I could see it on myself. I get discouraged too easily.

This is me. I can braid and twist...but the style will not last in my hair for even 3-4 days without me looking like it's been for a month or continuously unraveling! So I just don't do those styles because it's a hassle.

My biggest problem since going natural has been tangles and free form dreads from not thoroughly detangling in a timely matter...for me that means redoing my hair every 3 days.

If I had the kind of hair that would stay in a style for 2 weeks I'd be so happy!!

 

[SmilingElephant]

OOOOH , I laugh at this comment

maybe the people you know are 2a b
but ,if you have 3c hair that is dense or thick .. YOU CANNOT do your hair in five mins ...lol I know I need a ton of conditioner to get through my hair to detange it .. most people consider Tracy Ross a 3 b or c and her regmine IS time consuming .. I could relate to her .. I'm the shower for at least 50 mins on wash day .. trying to work through this head of hair ... When I was growing up my mom used to complain about my hair ... and I'm a 3c .. this stuff ain't easy if you have to work it everyday..


Folks look at my hair all thime a just assume I jump up and go .. oh please if you to work a comb through this mess you be real upset ..LOL

Yep! Wash day takes me a whole hour in the shower with the water on and off. I have to use UNGODLY amounts of conditioner!

AND I've learned that I cannot use combs in my hair bc my hair will break off like we never knew each other. SO fingers all the way.

I have to use so much conditioner and moisturizer when I do my hair bc it gets DRY if I'm not using enough. I mean STUPID dry! I run out of leave ins so fast it's not even funny. Leave in conditioners in the regular size bottles last me a week.

 

[Rastafarai]

Black women are so pressed to not admit they hate their hair that they project their own ill feelings of their hair on everyone else that seemingly has their hair type lmao it's extremely pathetic. Poor things

Refers to black women as poor things.

Must be a clear in disguise.

 

[nyeredzi]

This is me. I can braid and twist...but the style will not last in my hair for even 3-4 days without me looking like it's been for a month or continuously unraveling! So I just don't do those styles because it's a hassle.

My biggest problem since going natural has been tangles and free form dreads from not thoroughly detangling in a timely matter...for me that means redoing my hair every 3 days.

If I had the kind of hair that would stay in a style for 2 weeks I'd be so happy!!

Out of curiosity, how long does it take you to do your hair if you do it every 3 days? Meaning detangling and styling? When you were a kid, did someone do you hair every 3 days?