Jouelzy - So Over the Natural Hair Community & Texture Discrimination 4c

[naheda72]

Gonna add to this too lol. Always wear sunscreen and don't buy into the myth that black people can't get sun burnt.

Not to get off topic, but I use to say sunglasses were for ugly people. Now I wear sunglasses and sunscreen everyday if possible and I encourage my daughter to as well. My motto is I have to protect my beauty. I am dark skin with type 4 hair with a very high self esteem. I am not even concerned about this hair typing, but maybe its because I have been natural so long.

 

[AmethystLily]

I've noticed that very kinky hair only gets attention when it's either very long or if very short, defined with lots of product.

 

[ClassyJSP]

Tip toeing in the thread.. I never really understood this hair system 4a, 4b, 3c thing.

 

[LivingInPeace]

Tip toeing in the thread.. I never really understood this hair system 4a, 4b, 3c thing.

What don't you understand? Or do you mean you just don't agree with it?

 

[AmethystLily]

What don't you understand? Or do you mean you just don't agree with it?

Well, I'm not ClassyJSP, but for me it's both. I understand the basics (it's based on curl size), but there's a lot more that determines how a person's hair will look or act. Andre's system alone isn't very useful to me. As mentioned upthread, strand diameter, density, and porosity all play a role. This is the reason a lot of product or treatment trials end in disaster for many, sometimes even when they use products recommended for or used by people whose hair looks like theirs.
Two people can both be type 4b, but one of them could be high porosity and fine-stranded, and the other low-porosity and coarse-stranded. That will say a lot about which products and techniques to use, and what results will come from the same style.
I know I'm getting way off-topic, but here was my point: I think some people are still too hung up on trying to get their hair to look or act a certain way. That not only can drive a person batty mentally, but it can also keep them from finding a product or technique that works for them.

 

[LivingInPeace]

Well, I'm not ClassyJSP, but for me it's both. I understand the basics (it's based on curl size), but there's a lot more that determines how a person's hair will look or act. Andre's system alone isn't very useful to me. As mentioned upthread, strand diameter, density, and porosity all play a role. This is the reason a lot of product or treatment trials end in disaster for many, sometimes even when they use products recommended for or used by people whose hair looks like theirs.
Two people can both be type 4b, but one of them could be high porosity and fine-stranded, and the other low-porosity and coarse-stranded. That will say a lot about which products and techniques to use, and what results will come from the same style.
I know I'm getting way off-topic, but here was my point: I think some people are still too hung up on trying to get their hair to look or act a certain way. That not only can drive a person batty mentally, but it can also keep them from finding a product or technique that works for them.

I agree with your points. For me, the hair typing thing is just a starting point for learning what your hair may like. I haven't mastered the porosity density thing yet. But I know that if I see the results of a product on a 4a chick, I can usually expect something similar for me.

 

[DarkJoy]

I agree. hair typing is just a starting point or like a compass to point you in the general direction. the rest is up to the person to find what works and what doesnt.

 

[CodeRed]

Tip toeing in the thread.. I never really understood this hair system 4a, 4b, 3c thing.

I understand what you're saying... I don't understand hair typing either. For me, the most important thing is responding what my hair is doing/how it feels. It worked when I was natural and relaxed. The only thing I kept getting wrong was the technique. I've talked to many people who do their own hair who say the same thing, even on this board: you use products based on what you hair is telling you it needs, not you hair type. If that's the case then none of us would find success in products that are peddled towards naturally straight/slightly wavy hair. For a time I made that same mistake: If it looked like it was for "white people" then I wasn't going to use it. Yeah, well... that didn't last long when my hair fell out. I started trying everything for everybody

 

[DarkJoy]

Come to think of it I don't use typing much for products. However it does more to give a general sense of how to manipulate better. I know I cant rake through my type 4 with a comb like a stick straight type 1. I also know that type 1s dont have to contend with ssk like I do nor do they require as much protein. but that's kind of it.

 

[koolkittychick]

It's interesting to come back to this thread after so much time from the perspective that I now have, having transitioned for 11 months and just recently BC to a TWA after growing my relaxed hair to waist length. When I had all that hair, I got complimented and oohed and aahed from here to infinity, even as my ends were becoming increasingly ragged from the transitioning. When I finally BC'd, I have heard crickets regarding my TWA, but I'm loving it now that I know how to take care of it. Turns out that the hair I thought was 4C is actually 4ab hair that needs a lot of the right kind of moisture, and hates combs and brushes. And no I don't mean all of that MHM crap--I don't have time for that nonsense! I wash and deep condition once a week, co-wash midweek, and moisturize and seal when I wash/co-wash, and my hair is curly, soft and happy. It'll be a while before it grows long enough to where I'm completely happy with it, but we are getting along fine, even if other people don't see it for the beautiful hair it is.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

What's interesting to me is that people are offended by the hair typing, but have no issue with the word "kinky." I hate that word.

 

[Guinan]

It's interesting to come back to this thread after so much time from the perspective that I now have, having transitioned for 11 months and just recently BC to a TWA after growing my relaxed hair to waist length. When I had all that hair, I got complimented and oohed and aahed from here to infinity, even as my ends were becoming increasingly ragged from the transitioning. When I finally BC'd, I have heard crickets regarding my TWA, but I'm loving it now that I know how to take care of it. Turns out that the hair I thought was 4C is actually 4ab hair that needs a lot of the right kind of moisture, and hates combs and brushes. And no I don't mean all of that MHM crap--I don't have time for that nonsense! I wash and deep condition once a week, co-wash midweek, and moisturize and seal when I wash/co-wash, and my hair is curly, soft and happy. It'll be a while before it grows long enough to where I'm completely happy with it, but we are getting along fine, even if other people don't see it for the beautiful hair it is.

Congrats on your BC!

But what exactly are your issues with MHM and the MHM nonsense? I'm just curious b/c if my memory serves me correctly you were pretty vocal about disliking MHM in the initial MHM thread.

 

[ClassyJSP]

I understand what you're saying... I don't understand hair typing either. For me, the most important thing is responding what my hair is doing/how it feels. It worked when I was natural and relaxed. The only thing I kept getting wrong was the technique. I've talked to many people who do their own hair who say the same thing, even on this board: you use products based on what you hair is telling you it needs, not you hair type. If that's the case then none of us would find success in products that are peddled towards naturally straight/slightly wavy hair. For a time I made that same mistake: If it looked like it was for "white people" then I wasn't going to use it. Yeah, well... that didn't last long when my hair fell out. I started trying everything for everybody

Yes! I would only use doo grow, Dudley, lusters etc because it was for my hair.. now that I understand any kind of product from any kind of line could be best for my hair I don't bother.

 

[koolkittychick]

Congrats on your BC!

But what exactly are your issues with MHM and the MHM nonsense? I'm just curious b/c if my memory serves me correctly you were pretty vocal about disliking MHM in the initial MHM thread.

Thanks for the congrats!

It just seems to me that MHM is not a very effective method for the effort it requires. Last I checked, the originator (pinky cube?) doesn't even update her site anymore, and the other girl who promotes it on YouTube (can't remember her name but she has a very distinctive voice), her last video showed almost no progress with her hair after a full year of promoting the method in terms of growth or looking healthy or touchable. When I check the MHM hangout from time to time, I see that the folks in there are changing their regimen every ten minutes in the quest for the perfectly hydrated curl. Overall, for the amount of time, effort and input that goes into that thread, I see very little tangible results.

I have to wonder what it is MHMers are really after for all the time, effort, money and changes they go through, often to create a look that most people can achieve with 3 products and a twist out.

 

[Guinan]

Thanks for the congrats!

It just seems to me that MHM is not a very effective method for the effort it requires. Last I checked, the originator (pinky cube?) doesn't even update her site anymore, and the other girl who promotes it on YouTube (can't remember her name but she has a very distinctive voice), her last video showed almost no progress with her hair after a full year of promoting the method in terms of growth or looking healthy or touchable. When I check the MHM hangout from time to time, I see that the folks in there are changing their regimen every ten minutes in the quest for the perfectly hydrated curl. Overall, for the amount of time, effort and input that goes into that thread, I see very little tangible results.

I have to wonder what it is MHMers are really after for all the time, effort, money and changes they go through, often to create a look that most people can achieve with 3 products and a twist out.

Your entitled to your opinion so here is mines. If your so against the method why even bother checking pinkcubes site, looking into the MHM threads and consistently bash something that may be working for others. I'm not a stan for the method but I don't understand your implication towards someone that wants to achieve hydrated hair. The method is ever changing because our hair needs are ever changing. And i get the whole "i paid my 6.97 " or whatever the LHCF membership fee is to go into any thread, but it just doesn't make sense (to me anyway) to stay abreast on something that your so against.

What are YOU after?

 

[sweetpea7]

Before you write it off entirely, I encourage you to check out dubaidee4c blog or youtube channel. She does the regimen once a week on a different head of hair and only uses a very simplified MHM regimen and had great results.

 

[Honey Bee]

Thanks for the congrats!

It just seems to me that MHM is not a very effective method for the effort it requires. Last I checked, the originator (pinky cube?) doesn't even update her site anymore, and the other girl who promotes it on YouTube (can't remember her name but she has a very distinctive voice), her last video showed almost no progress with her hair after a full year of promoting the method in terms of growth or looking healthy or touchable. When I check the MHM hangout from time to time, I see that the folks in there are changing their regimen every ten minutes in the quest for the perfectly hydrated curl. Overall, for the amount of time, effort and input that goes into that thread, I see very little tangible results.

I have to wonder what it is MHMers are really after for all the time, effort, money and changes they go through, often to create a look that most people can achieve with 3 products and a twist out.

Not to pile on, but I'm gonna have to disagree with the entire premise of your post. As a new natural, you're flooded with information. Pre poo with this, co wash with that, moisturize and seal with that . There are endless debates. Don't front, most natural do faaaar more than five steps. I'm tired of hearing about how long/ tedious the MHM is compared to the 50 million steps your average yt'er has.

The MHM gave me a nice little template of five simple steps. I've never actually done the five steps with entirely proper, MHM-approved products, yet I'm still seeing results. And by 'results,' I don't mean curl pattern, I'm talking SSK's! That's real ish!

 

[CodeRed]

If you have the time, desire, energy and money to do what you want to your hair to get the desired effect then go for it. I see a lot of people on here doing many more steps and taking just as much time as that MHM and while I wouldn't do any of it I'm not going to begrudge them doing it. I spend a total of about a half hour and 2 products actually doing my hair and that's too much time/product for some people but they don't tell me to stop doing what I'm doing and I wouldn't appreciate it too much if they did.

 

[nyeredzi]

Oh, is that what MHM is? Maybe I should check it out. All this time I thought this was either that product they sell for horses or yeast infections. So I never went in. Sounds like it's time consuming, though.

 

[GGsKin]

I do MHM and I don't consider it time consuming. On wash day, I water rinse, clay rinse, apply oil, gel. With it, I have a regimen that gives me hair that's easy to manage and style how I desire- in its unstretched state, and without heat. And I've been retaining length.

With consistency, my hair is not drying into a tangled shrunken fro that I have to break a sweat, or fling in some braids to tackle. 6 months ago, I found a way to care for my hair, that's suits me.

I don't see why some people seem to have a problem with this particular regimen/method.

 

[discodumpling]

MHM the proof is on my head. No explanation needed. Thats pretty much been my approach throughout my natural journey. Folks can try it or nah...there are a million ways to customize and personalize any regimen. It is essential to listen to your hair. One size rarely fits all.

 

[nothidden]

Thanks for the congrats!

It just seems to me that MHM is not a very effective method for the effort it requires. Last I checked, the originator (pinky cube?) doesn't even update her site anymore, and the other girl who promotes it on YouTube (can't remember her name but she has a very distinctive voice), her last video showed almost no progress with her hair after a full year of promoting the method in terms of growth or looking healthy or touchable. When I check the MHM hangout from time to time, I see that the folks in there are changing their regimen every ten minutes in the quest for the perfectly hydrated curl. Overall, for the amount of time, effort and input that goes into that thread, I see very little tangible results.

I have to wonder what it is MHMers are really after for all the time, effort, money and changes they go through, often to create a look that most people can achieve with 3 products and a twist out.

My understanding of the goal of MHM was to hydrate your hair to the point where 4c hair is not a completely frizzed out, undefined 'fro (be it curls or waves) WITHOUT product, so your curl/wave pattern is always defined. My reason for doing MHM was that I always saw my curl pattern via shed hair, and just wanted that pattern to be more prominent. I knew I needed moisture and thought MHM could help, and it did. I stopped doing MHM in the fall due to the cold weather, but I do think @koolkittychick has a point. Although I still follow a few folks I remember from another MHM thread, I don't know any who consistently experience complete curl definition w/o product. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

A lot of the modifications are routines people not associated w/MHM are already doing. The latest involving coconut milk and okra gel is something that has been around for years. Google it.

 

[Honey Bee]

A lot of the modifications are routines people not associated w/MHM are already doing. The latest involving coconut milk and okra gel is something that has been around for years. Google it.

As has everything else in the regimen. Clay is a naturally-occurring substance, people been using it in their hair since the beginning of time. So, clearly, Pinke Cube didn't claim to have invented clay masks or ACV rinses. All she did was study the regimens of successful naturals and realize, "Wow, a lot of these women actually wash/ clarify their hair regularly. Maybe that might work....?'

What's funny is, if you started a thread saying, 'I'm a natural who cowashes everyday, but my hair never feels moisturized,' the first thing people would tell you to do is clarify. They'd probably recommend a shampoo. Pinke Cube points out a way to safely incorporate natural clarifying methods into daily use and everybody's against it.

 

[Guinan]

My understanding of the goal of MHM was to hydrate your hair to the point where 4c hair is not a completely frizzed out, undefined 'fro (be it curls or waves) WITHOUT product, so your curl/wave pattern is always defined. My reason for doing MHM was that I always saw my curl pattern via shed hair, and just wanted that pattern to be more prominent. I knew I needed moisture and thought MHM could help, and it did. I stopped doing MHM in the fall due to the cold weather, but I do think @koolkittychick has a point. Although I still follow a few folks I remember from another MHM thread, I don't know any who consistently experience complete curl definition w/o product. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

A lot of the modifications are routines people not associated w/MHM are already doing. The latest involving coconut milk and okra gel is something that has been around for years. Google it.

MHM aside, I don't know anyone either who doesn't use gel for their wngs.
I dont think that's the purpose of the MHM or the objective ; to wear a wng without gel.

Everyone uses some sort of product to maintain their hair. Straight or curly.

 

[koolkittychick]

Your entitled to your opinion so here is mines. If your so against the method why even bother checking pinkcubes site, looking into the MHM threads and consistently bash something that may be working for others. I'm not a stan for the method but I don't understand your implication towards someone that wants to achieve hydrated hair. The method is ever changing because our hair needs are ever changing. And i get the whole "i paid my 6.97 " or whatever the LHCF membership fee is to go into any thread, but it just doesn't make sense (to me anyway) to stay abreast on something that your so against.

What are YOU after?

The same thing everyone else here is after; knowledge on how to best care for my hair. Like most curious minds, I do try to keep abreast of information that could prove useful to me, even if I initially disagree with it. While it's obvious that MHM as laid out by Pinkycube and msdeekay2012 do not work, since almost no one on that thread follows it as prescribed by them anymore, there are enough elements in the regimen that seem to be effective by themselves under different conditions and scenarios, and it's interesting to see how others experiment with those different elements to get the results they are after. Maybe one day someone will come up with a method that does work, producing effective and visible results on a wide range of hair, and is simple enough to be easily followed and even commercialized, as many major companies have done with cowashing and the LOC/LCO methods. Until then, there's no harm in keeping track of the evolution, noting the improvements and/or continued deficiencies along the way. Is there a problem with that?

 

[nothidden]

As has everything else in the regimen. Clay is a naturally-occurring substance, people been using it in their hair since the beginning of time. So, clearly, Pinke Cube didn't claim to have invented clay masks or ACV rinses. All she did was study the regimens of successful naturals and realize, "Wow, a lot of these women actually wash/ clarify their hair regularly. Maybe that might work....?'

What's funny is, if you started a thread saying, 'I'm a natural who cowashes everyday, but my hair never feels moisturized,' the first thing people would tell you to do is clarify. They'd probably recommend a shampoo. Pinke Cube points out a way to safely incorporate natural clarifying methods into daily use and everybody's against it.

I understand that MHMers can be a bit fanatical, but have you noticed that no one is resentful towards women who feel the curly girl method is ineffective for 4c or low porosity hair? God bless free speech and to each their own.

 

[Guinan]

I understand that MHMers can be a bit fanatical, but have you noticed that no one is resentful towards women who feel the curly girl method is ineffective for 4c or low porosity hair? God bless free speech and to each their own.

Fanatical? I think not.

 

[nothidden]

MHM aside, I don't know anyone either who doesn't use gel for their wngs.
I dont think that's the purpose of the MHM or the objective ; to wear a wng without gel.

Everyone uses some sort of product to maintain their hair. Straight or curly.

Then you don't understand the point of the method. It's not just a WnG. Ask Pinke cube. The whole point is "max hydration" and you know you've reached it when your hair is defined from root to tip w/o product. That is the goal.

 

[koolkittychick]

MHM aside, I don't know anyone either who doesn't use gel for their wngs.
I dont think that's the purpose of the MHM or the objective ; to wear a wng without gel.

Everyone uses some sort of product to maintain their hair. Straight or curly.

I do not use gel for my wng; my scalp does not like them. My hair stays soft without it, and I don't care for the sticky or crunchy look and feel of gel.

 

[Guinan]

The same thing everyone else here is after; knowledge on how to best care for my hair. Like most curious minds, I do try to keep abreast of information that could prove useful to me, even if I initially disagree with it. While it's obvious that MHM as laid out by Pinkycube and msdeekay2012 do not work, since almost no one on that thread follows it as prescribed by them anymore, there are enough elements in the regimen that seem to be effective by themselves under different conditions and scenarios, and it's interesting to see how others experiment with those different elements to get the results they are after. Maybe one day someone with come up with a method that does work, producing effective and visible results on a wide range of hair, and is simple enough to be easily followed and even commercialized, as many major companies have done with cowashing and the LOC/LCO methods. Until then, there's no harm in keeping track of the evolution, noting the improvements and/or continued deficiencies along the way. Is there a problem with that?

Nope no problem at all. Continue to do the MHM in private and bash the method in public.