Homosexuality and Old Testament v. New Testament Law?

[Cichelle]

I know this is a Christianity forum, but if I'm not overstepping my bounds by asking, what exactly do Jews believe in terms of Christ? Are Jews still awaiting a messiah?

Moshiach has not come yet. As to the details of this, I'd be glad to answer any questions or direct you to the answers from a Jewish perspective if you send me a pm. I don't want to hijack the thread or take this discussion to things forbidden on this forum. But I try to correct errors here when it pertains to Judaism. If you send me a pm, please give me until Sunday to answer, as our Sabbath starts tonight at sundown.

 

[cheetarah1980]

There is a lot in this thread to comment on, but this post stood out to me.

What do sabbath keepers take these verses to mean:

Col. 2:16,17

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
things which are a {mere} shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
This verse needs to be understood within the context of the entire chapter and also the history of what was going on in the 1st century church. At the time there was mass persecution of Jews by the Roman empire. This persecution came in the form of higher taxes, property restrictions, etc. During the 1st century, Rome determined who was Jewish based on practice NOT lineage. Jews had a very distinct way of living (dietary restrictions, Sabbath observance, festivals) that set them apart from the gentile cultures around them. When gentiles accepted Christ they too observed Sabbath (Saturday), the festivals, food and drink restrictions. Paul is telling them not to let people judge them for this observance because what they are doing is a shadow of Christ. When a shadow is cast you look to the body that cast that shadow. Those actions point directly to Christ.

Rm 14:5-6
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day {alike.} Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Once again context is key. In the first verse of this chapter Paul says to not judge one another in regards to DEBATABLE issues. Everything that follows rests on the phrase debatable issues. When Paul wrote this the weekly Sabbath day was NOT debated. 1st century Christ followers worshipped alongside Jews in the temple/synagogue on Saturday. What was debated at the time was the Sabbath day of one of the Biblical festivals. There was disagreement as to how to count the days to when it began. Paul is basically telling believers that in that specific case, it doesn't really matter. He is NOT changing nor negating the Saturday Sabbath. He's not talking about it all. So in terms of using this verse as a proof text that any day can be the Sabbath, it's not relevant.
[/quote]

I have the feeling that if more Christians studied ancient Middle Eastern and Hebrew culture, geography, sociology, and history many theological debates wouldn't exist.

 

[divya]

It's always interesting to me when Christians think Jews need blood sacrifice for atonement/forgiveness...or that the Tanakh says this is the only way, even in biblical times. There is a lack of understanding in regards to Judaism, Tanakh, Hebrew language and etc.

Just for the record, we (Jews) don't need blood of any kind to atone and be forgiven.

I understand but we are discussing what was nailed to the cross in terms of Christianity. Blood sacrifice is not longer a part of our faith because we believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[discobiscuits]

I have the feeling that if more Christians studied ancient Middle Eastern and Hebrew culture, geography, sociology, and history many theological debates wouldn't exist.

More importantly, if the people who teach us (pastors, religious leaders) did this we would know more and do better.

 

[queenspence]

Interesting thread...

 

[cheetarah1980]

JenniferohJenny, I'm sorry but I don't have the energy in me to do the quotes and answer that way b/c there were so many responses. I hope you understand
I don't think you misunderstood me, it's probably my fault. Maybe I was a little too vague. But I'll be happy to clarify. In saying that the OT laws are no longer applicable, I am in no way saying that this is a license to go out and do the opposite of those laws and just ask for forgiveness and everything is ok. No. I certainly don't agree with that. But the whole premise of the 10 commandments and other sacrements and laws is that they were not held in the hearts of the people. They were not being obedient for the right reason. Many of the laws in the OT are repeated and even more strict than those in the OT... for example, the 10 commandments tells a person not to committ adultery but in the NT we are told that a man shouldn't even look upon a woman with lust in his eyes lest he committ adultery... another example is in the 10 commandments we are told not to kill, but the NT says not to be jealous, envious, hate, have malice etc... So we still have similar expectations. The difference is, that when we do sin, we can repent and ask for forgiveness. True Godly sorrow = repentance. Repentance doesn't mean a person can do whatever they please and just take forgiveness for granted.
I hope that helps.

As to the bolded, I think this is a misunderstanding that many Christians have regarding the Sermon on the Mount. Once again the context is the key. Jesus was NOT adding additional restrictions to the commands. He was teaching about the spirit in which the commands were originally given. By Jesus' time much of the HEART of the Law (Torah) had given way to legalism. People were often following the letter of the law and getting away with things without technically breaking the commands. When Jesus says that lust in the heart is equal to the act of adultery, he's speaking to the condition of one's mind/heart that leads to the actual act. The act in and of itself is only the external result of an internal issue. If you're not lusting after someone, then the act of adultery won't be an issue. The same goes for murder, divorce, etc. Jesus basically telling them to check themselves before they wreck themselves. Remember Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. Fulfillment means to live out in the spirit with which it was intended, in heart and mind as well as in deed.

 

[cheetarah1980]

God was not merciful and forgiving in the first covenant. If the people that HE chose to be his own did not obey, the penalties often included death. There was no repentance in the old testament. There was no asking God for forgiveness... if you sinned God just simply turned away from you and refused to hear what you had to say. (Isaiah 59:1-2 1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. That is not the way things are now through Christ.

Instead of God selecting a people, now people are given the free-will to obey God. So they follow his commandments out of love and not just obligation.

Where in scripture does the bolded idea come from? God was NOT merciful in giving the 1st covenant (which is no different from the second)? The covenant was given after one of the most merciful acts of God ever (the Exodus). He had chosen Israel as his treasured possession and given them a covenant to keep with him. How is that NOT merciful? There was no repentance? After the Golden Calf incident was Israel not in a state of mourning and repentance when they realized the gravity of their sin. Did Israel NOT come to repentance again when Elijah proved who the true God is in the face of Baal worshipers? God was merciful and forgiving then as he is now. Yes Israel screwed up A LOT (really no differently than we do now), however they did NOT get back into God's favor by simply following rules. First came the admission of their sin and repentance and a renewed commitment to follow God's commands.
If there was no repentance or forgiveness in the OT how do you explain prophesy about Israel once again being brought back to the land from the far corners of the Earth (which is happening today)? Sin has consequences and Israel has suffered many. However, forgiveness is NOT something new that just started when Christ died.

 

[cheetarah1980]

But how and when should we keep it? According to Jewish law Jesus broke the Sabbath by working. As you said the Sabbath is made for man not the other way around. Why did Jesus work on the Sabbath and give the reason that He works because our Father is always working? Other than creation when did God rest on the 7th day? I'd like to check it out.

If Jesus broke the Law, then there is no way he could be Messiah. Remember, "He who was without sin was made sin for us." Breaking the Sabbath is a sin in accordance with the Torah. Torah even says that anyone who comes claiming to be from God but does anything against Torah is false. Jesus would not break his own Law. Jesus did break with unnecessary Sabbath traditions, but never the Law. He was showing the spirit with which the Sabbath was given, not abolishing it.

 

[Ms.Honey]

YES!



It was not tradition. The tradition was to wash feet and hands BEFORE eating: Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped [them] with the hairs of her head.
But Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;
Jhn 13:3 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
Jhn 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
Jhn 13: 14-15 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
It's about humility and compassion!
But we are hijacking the thread, sorry!
Blessings

He says it is an example. The example Jesus was showing us was that we aren't clean until were washed by the Word of God and not to think we were better than one another, that's true humility.

 

[alexstin]

There is a lot in this thread to comment on, but this post stood out to me.

Once again context is key. In the first verse of this chapter Paul says to not judge one another in regards to DEBATABLE issues.

I have the feeling that if more Christians studied ancient Middle Eastern and Hebrew culture, geography, sociology, and history many theological debates wouldn't exist.[/QUOTE]

But we are debating it. That's just it, some people feel that they must set aside Sat as the sabbath and others don't. This along with many things in the body of Christ(tithing, pretrib, post-trib, denominations......) will be debated.

 

[alexstin]

If Jesus broke the Law, then there is no way he could be Messiah. Remember, "He who was without sin was made sin for us." Breaking the Sabbath is a sin in accordance with the Torah. Torah even says that anyone who comes claiming to be from God but does anything against Torah is false. Jesus would not break his own Law. Jesus did break with unnecessary Sabbath traditions, but never the Law. He was showing the spirit with which the Sabbath was given, not abolishing it.

And what was the spirit by which it was given? Natural law always supercedes written law. Since these laws came into affect after the fall, what was the original intent? We know that God sanctified the seventh day since He rested from His creation work but since then He is ever working. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Also, any references for cultural books about biblical times would be appreciated. I have a few but am always interested in more.

 

[cheetarah1980]

[/color]

I have the feeling that if more Christians studied ancient Middle Eastern and Hebrew culture, geography, sociology, and history many theological debates wouldn't exist.

But we are debating it. That's just it, some people feel that they must set aside Sat as the sabbath and others don't. This along with many things in the body of Christ(tithing, pretrib, post-trib, denominations......) will be debated.[/quote]
Yes, we are debating it now. But you can't apply this debatable issue to that particular passage when the issue didn't exist at his time. That's what I mean when I say that verse in Romans 14 is taken out of context because it does NOT apply to this particular case. It's talking about an entirely different issue.

It's like applying the passage when Jesus says "it's what comes out of the mouth that makes someone unclean, not what they put in," to koshrat laws when the passage isn't even talking about food, but hand washing. You can't take one line out of an entire chapter or book and apply it to all types of cases. I see tend to see that a lot in contemporary Christianity.

 

[Ms.Honey]

We are wayyy off topic.
I have found that most if not all Christian religions that focus on performing acts of the law and not the spirit of the law do not believe that the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues aren't for Christians today but has passed away. I think that's behind the debates that goes on here. The believers versus the non-believers.
And as far as debating, it's pointless. Nothing gets resolved. If you're right let the Lord deal with the other. Nothing about the gospel is up for debate. Paul said let us put the bickering aside. It's elementary Christianity.
If the Lord told YOU to join a church that focuses on the Sabbath, washing feet etc. then do it. If He told YOU to join a church that believes that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is for us know as well as then then do that. But I admonish everyone to do this. Don't do these things because YOU think it's the right way or that it makes more sense to you or you read this etc. Don't rely on your own understanding. Ask the Lord to show YOU what to do. If you know Him what's the harm in asking Him. Who's infalliable you, your organization or Jesus? I know some won't pray because you already know you're right because you've studied it and your church has blah,blah,blah about it and you'll continue to argue over the Word but ask yourself why you won't ask Him. Are you so wise that you don't need His counsel? Remember that we answer to Jesus in the end. He's going to hold us accountable for what WE have done. My church said blah,blah,blah and I studied and read and thought you meant blah, blah, blah ain't gonna cut it. He's gonna ask why didn't you seek HIS face. Why didn't you ask HIM. If we claim that we want to please Him doesn't it make since to ask Him how to do and not your church? He will judge us as individuals, not as a group.
We need to stop being so puffed up and prideful because that's what it is, thinking everyone's wrong but my church and let Jesus decide who is or isn't. It's shameful and gives place to the devil. We're so right all of the time we can't even hear from Jesus for our own benefit anymore. We don't know because we really don't care to know, we'd rather be right than righteous in His sight.

 

[divya]

^^^^

Spiritual discussion and study is healthy. It's important not to label it as being prideful and puffed up or supposedly focused on performing acts of the law. It's important not to make assumptions as to people's relationship with Christians and whether or not people are constantly looking from guidance from the Lord. As Christians, we really should be focus on loving God and living up to the light that we have. We have to keep searching and sharing what we have found. Jesus has set that example. Let's be careful not to discourage people in discussion and study. That's a big reason why we have the Christian forum!

 

[Ms.Honey]

Discussion is one thing debating is another. Nothing gets resolved. It's pointless

 

[MrsQueeny]

Discussion is one thing debating is another. Nothing gets resolved. It's pointless

My Pastor spoke yesterday at an ordination and the topic was "Ask God." He spoke about David and when he had to go fight in Keilah. Before he did anything, he inquired of the Lord and God always answered. This is what kills me about Christians in general. Folks are so quick to say, "well God didn't tell you that (I had this said to me on this very board )" or "I believe God wants you to.." when they don't know what God has told that person. Just because He didn't tell you doesn't mean He didn't tell them. Or others simply believe what other Christians have to say and follow them, and then hit a wall and ask God why. God has His own path for each of us. He is a loving God and won't lead us astray. If you ASK Him, He will answer you. As stubborn as I am, I listen to the Lord, PERIOD. I don't try to prove it to others. If they believe I am wrong, them let them as long as God says I am right.

I know when I was called to ministry, I struggled. I listened to folks who tried to say this about women minister and that. Finally I stopped and just pray to God. You know what he said? The Lord told me, "I CALLED YOU, not them!!!" That was all I needed and I never looked back. I tell folks if you think I am wrong and want to help me, then pray for me. Until God tells me otherwise, I keep it moving and do what I am called to do.

I love those in leadership roles and I respect them but God is the ultimate authority. One of the reasons why I love my Pastor so much is because he tells us to ask and inquire of the Lord in all we do. It is human nature to be right and some always like to prove others wrong so they can feel good about themselves and how they are living. I just don't have time for a lot of it. I am about God's business EVERYDAY!!!!! So if you know what thus says the Lord for you and your life, don't worry about folks who don't have a heaven or a hell to put you in. I know I don't.

I love all of you ladies and I thank God for each of you. It is my prayer that when we all see the Lord He will say, "Well done!!" Q

 

[Ms.Honey]

Amen Queeny. God made the gospel is so simple to follow but people want to make it so legalistic to keep others from seeing Jesus. He is not the author of confusion and that's what these religious debates are. Just ask God. Simple.

 

[divya]

Discussion is one thing debating is another. Nothing gets resolved. It's pointless

Well, I view this to be discussion. The benefit is searching the Word for better understanding. Maybe some get nothing out of it this discussion, so I'm sure they probably did not participate. We're all selective as to the threads we are interested in.

 

[cheetarah1980]

Queeny and Honey. You're both right. God is NOT the author of confusion and if this discussion is turning into more of a debate and a confusing mess than a time to bring new ideas to others then it's pointless.

For me this discussion has been fruitful. I think it forces us to at least examine points of theology in ways we may not have seen before. Even if it doesn't change what we believe, it can at the very least reinforce why we believe the way we do. But in our walk with Christ if our theology is the same as it always has been, then are we growing? Our view of who God is and our understanding of His word should always grow and change.

While I agree that we must inquire of God about how he wants us to walk (live out the minsitry he gives us), I think the reason that there are so many points of theological differences is because people think "God told me" something He never really did. He may give us different applications in how we apply his commands, but he wouldn't give us totally different commands. I can't say who's right and who's wrong about the issues we've discussed in this thread. But I do believe that answers are there to be found if we truly seek them.

 

[MrsQueeny]

Queeny and Honey. You're both right. God is NOT the author of confusion and if this discussion is turning into more of a debate and a confusing mess than a time to bring new ideas to others then it's pointless.

For me this discussion has been fruitful. I think it forces us to at least examine points of theology in ways we may not have seen before. Even if it doesn't change what we believe, it can at the very least reinforce why we believe the way we do. But in our walk with Christ if our theology is the same as it always has been, then are we growing? Our view of who God is and our understanding of His word should always grow and change.

While I agree that we must inquire of God about how he wants us to walk (live out the minsitry he gives us), I think the reason that there are so many points of theological differences is because people think "God told me" something He never really did. He may give us different applications in how we apply his commands, but he wouldn't give us totally different commands. I can't say who's right and who's wrong about the issues we've discussed in this thread. But I do believe that answers are there to be found if we truly seek them.

But you see that happens a lot even on this board. I once read a thread where someone basically was sending folks to hell for not doing what "they" thought was of God. I agree that some people say God told me when He didn't. But I am speaking to those who know God's voice and know when He is speaking and I encourage those who don't to spend time in His presence so you too when know when He is speaking to you. I do believe God gives people different commands depending on the situation. For one He may say flee because they are not prepared to fight, for others He may tell them to stay because He is going to protect them and give them the victory. His ways are not our ways.

We all need to have our own personal relationship with Him. I don't spend my time defending what God has told me because He is in charge. What God wants is for us to accept Him, flee from sin, study His word, obey Him, and bring others to Him. If we all do that, we are already on the right path and He will work everything else out along the way. Q

 

[Ms.Honey]

Well, I view this to be discussion. The benefit is searching the Word for better understanding. Maybe some get nothing out of it this discussion, so I'm sure they probably did not participate. We're all selective as to the threads we are interested in.

Divya be honest. Do you think you can learn more about God from others experiences with Him that aren't part of your organization? Do you consider others that don't practice Christianity the way you do as Christian? Is it your intent to learn more about Jesus from your fellow Christians that aren't part of your organization and share with us as equals or is it your intent to convert us heathens who can't be saved people because we don't do what you do?
I think everyone myself included needs to be honest about our true intents here. I want to share what I know and I don't believe that you have to be part of my organization to know Jesus, be right with Him here on earth and go to heaven. Anyone else?

 

[MrsQueeny]

Divya be honest. Do you think you can learn more about God from others experiences with Him that aren't part of your organization? Do you consider others that don't practice Christianity the way you do as Christian? Is it your intent to learn more about Jesus from your fellow Christians that aren't part of your organization and share with us as equals or is it your intent to convert us heathens who can't be saved people because we don't do what you do?
I think everyone myself included needs to be honest about our true intents here. I want to share what I know and I don't believe that you have to be part of my organization to know Jesus, be right with Him here on earth and go to heaven. Anyone else?

Raises hand. That is why I am here. I am not going to judge someone or assume they are going to hell because they don't worship like I do. I want us to all know God for ourselves and make it to heaven no matter who you are. Q

 

[divya]

Divya be honest. Do you think you can learn more about God from others experiences with Him that aren't part of your organization? Do you consider others that don't practice Christianity the way you do as Christian? Is it your intent to learn more about Jesus from your fellow Christians that aren't part of your organization and share with us as equals or is it your intent to convert us heathens who can't be saved people because we don't do what you do?

I think everyone myself included needs to be honest about our true intents here. I want to share what I know and I don't believe that you have to be part of my organization to know Jesus, be right with Him here on earth and go to heaven. Anyone else?

Interesting. Why would you even feel the need to ask those questions? This makes me wonder what kind of notions some people have when they come into these forums and encounter people who have very different beliefs than they do - even within Christianity. Now you did respond to my initial responses to the OP in this thread and a discussion ensued. Does it bother you so much that we disagree? It really seems so from the types of questions you have asked here.

I come from a family with all different religions, not only Christianity. From Hindu, Shango, Rastafarian outside...to Catholic, Presbyterian, and Adventism within. I can and do learn from all. There is nothing wrong with being strong in your faith, wanting to share, and to learn from the walk of others. I definitely have learned from fellow Christians and non-Christians and believe it or not, I believe there will be people of both groups in heaven. That's something I always express - here and beyond.

Honestly, are those questions actually directed at me or really a projection of your own feelings? I stated that thread has been helpful for me, so why would you doubt that? This isn't the first time that you have made seemingly assumptive comments after a discussion or rather so-called denomination related comments. If you notice, that's where I bow out. It matters not to me what "denomination" you are within Christianity or whether you profess one at all. We can still discuss the Bible. But does the existence of some beliefs within Christianity really bother you or many some "organizations or denominations"? Even still, everyone within an "organization" doesn't necessarily agree. That's why I love Christianity because we live based on conviction by the Holy Spirit and we can share our beliefs with each other. And at the end of the day, what really matters is whether or not you are for Christ.

 

[Ms.Honey]

^^^^

Spiritual discussion and study is healthy. It's important not to label it as being prideful and puffed up or supposedly focused on performing acts of the law. It's important not to make assumptions as to people's relationship with Christians and whether or not people are constantly looking from guidance from the Lord. As Christians, we really should be focus on loving God and living up to the light that we have. We have to keep searching and sharing what we have found. Jesus has set that example. Let's be careful not to discourage people in discussion and study. That's a big reason why we have the Christian forum!

This is what made me ask, the bolded, the way it was phased. I've noticed that while some folks haven't come out directly and said it it seems that some think that the rest of us aren't Christians which again is cool, whatever. I just find it disingenuous for someone to attempt to coddle others who they believe aren't really Christians and then proceed into recruit mode. That' seems to be when the discussions/debate begin.
You still didn't answer my question but I think I know. I can only make assumptions if someone isn't being direct. If you're not one of the aforementioned folks then no big deal right? I stated clearly what I believed no biggie and so did Queeny20 and if this thread is still opened I'm sure others will also. It's just something I've wondered about not intended to be offensive.

 

[divya]

This is what made me ask, the bolded, the way it was phased. I've noticed that while some folks haven't come out directly and said it it seems that some think that the rest of us aren't Christians which again is cool, whatever. I just find it disingenuous for someone to attempt to coddle others who they believe aren't really Christians and then proceed into recruit mode. That' seems to be when the discussions/debate begin.
You still didn't answer my question but I think I know. I can only make assumptions if someone isn't being direct. If you're not one of the aforementioned folks then no big deal right? I stated clearly what I believed no biggie and so did Queeny20 and if this thread is still opened I'm sure others will also. It's just something I've wondered about not intended to be offensive.

Yes, I do believe it is important not to make assumptions as to relationships with other Christians, as well as with God. Where we are in our walk is something between ourselves and God. I've never thought that anyone in the Christian forum doesn't believe us all to be Christian. Neither do I see anyone in recruit mode. That just my view though. Those things simply don't occur to me at all. My focus is on "thus saith the Lord." Actually, I answered your questions, and shared my background as well. But if you don't really understand where I'm coming from that's alright...

Anyway, this thread somewhat came from the big homosexuality debate in off topic, and it dealt with our understandings on the law. It was meant to be a discussion, no? And I don't think we really veered far from that, if at all. I felt it was a great topic and discussion!

 

[Ms.Honey]

Yes, I do believe it is important not to make assumptions as to relationships with other Christians, as well as with God. Where we are in our walk is something between ourselves and God. I've never thought that anyone in the Christian forum doesn't believe us all to be Christian. Neither do I see anyone in recruit mode. That just my view though. Those things simply don't occur to me at all. My focus is on "thus saith the Lord." Actually, I answered your questions, and shared my background as well. But if you don't really understand where I'm coming from that's alright...

Anyway, this thread somewhat came from the big homosexuality debate in off topic, and it dealt with our understandings on the law. It was meant to be a discussion, no? And I don't think we really veered far from that, if at all. I felt it was a great topic and discussion!

Girl, we've veered, swirved and plummeted 100 yards off topic. Like I said some seem to do that and when it's a constant back and forth nothing gets resolved and folks get offensive then folks get offended and then it really hits the fan. Like I said just wondering. I've never been the type to care what folks believe about my walk so I don't trip off of them.
I don't believe that everyone here thinks everyone on this forum are Christians, I know I don't but I don't tell them that but pray for their salvation and conversion instead.
O.K. That's my last hijacking post to this thread.

 

[divya]

Girl, we've veered, swirved and plummeted 100 yards off topic. Like I said some seem to do that and when it's a constant back and forth nothing gets resolved and folks get offensive then folks get offended and then it really hits the fan. Like I said just wondering. I've never been the type to care what folks believe about my walk so I don't trip off of them.
I don't believe that everyone here thinks everyone on this forum are Christians, I know I don't but I don't tell them that but pray for their salvation and conversion instead.
O.K. That's my last hijacking post to this thread.

Ok, I understand. Maybe I just haven't participated in the Christian forum enough to see what you are referring to...with the exception of the whole Catholic debate. Well, now that I think about it, based on that alone, you are probably right. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. It really does help my faith personally. To me, what makes us Christian is our acceptance of Christ - period. Beyond that, it's a matter of personal study and conviction. Your approach is the correct one, we should be praying for each other constantly.

Have a good day!

 

[dawn1980]

We did an extensive study of Romans in 2006-2007. And Paul did indeed speak to homosexuality and it's depravity in God's eyes. It's the beginning of Romans-- Rom. 1:24-26. Paul is telling them how they have been blinded by their own "evil" desires . The study opened my eyes to how we as people can become so used to our sin that it actually becomes alright in our own eyes and the more we give in to it the more blind God lets us become. This is so dangerous because our hearts become hardened to the Word. This study was an eye-opener for me because that is when I really started to pray for my eyes and ears and heart to be open to God's Word. I was also questioning whether homosexuality was something that people are born as and if they were "going to hell" for it. Of course I know that God will forgive us our sins if we repent and ask Him. The operative work is "repent"--we have to let it go.

 

[Crown]

We did an extensive study of Romans in 2006-2007. And Paul did indeed speak to homosexuality and it's depravity in God's eyes. It's the beginning of Romans-- Rom. 1:24-26. Paul is telling them how they have been blinded by their own "evil" desires . The study opened my eyes to how we as people can become so used to our sin that it actually becomes alright in our own eyes and the more we give in to it the more blind God lets us become. This is so dangerous because our hearts become hardened to the Word. This study was an eye-opener for me because that is when I really started to pray for my eyes and ears and heart to be open to God's Word. I was also questioning whether homosexuality was something that people are born as and if they were "going to hell" for it. Of course I know that God will forgive us our sins if we repent and ask Him. The operative work is "repent"--we have to let it go.

Amen! Amen!

 

[topsyturvy86]

Bumping this old thread! A very interesting and insightful read and covers the issues being discussed in the Sabbath thread.