Keeping the Old Testament laws?

[southerncharm]

you are so right, especially when it comes to the feast days:

Passover- Monday march 25, 2013 @sundown and ends: Tues, march 26, 2013 @sundown

feast of unleavened bread- begins1st night) tues march 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends : wed, march 27,2013 @ sundown

feast of unleavened bread- (7th night) begins : mon, april 1,2013 @ sundown and ends: tues, april 2, 2013 @ sundown

Pentecost- begins: SAT, MAY 18, 2013 @ sundown and ends MAY 19,
2013 @ sundown

the memorial of the blowing of the trumpets-
begins: thurs, sept 5, 2013 @sundown and ends: sun, sept 6 2013, @ sundown

the day of atonement-
begins: sat, sept 14, 2013 @ sundown and ends: sun sept 15, 2013 @ sundown

feast of tabernacles (1st night)-
begins: thur sept 19, 2013@ sundown and ends: fri, sept 20, 2013 @ sundown

the 8th day, that great day of the feast-
begins: thur, sept 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends: fri, sept 27, 2013 @ sundown

wow, I wonder how that sad face made it there , I don't remember putting it there .

 

[Nice & Wavy]

wow, I wonder how that sad face made it there , I don't remember putting it there .

I was reading right after you posted and it was there....

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I honestly see both sides of the debate. It's Mrs.Haseeb and Shimmie make a very convincing and clear case, but on the other side, if we are to keep old testament laws, why is the Sabbath and meats, the only ones people choose to observe? What about all the other ones? That's where it gets sticky and folks are butting heads. Either it's changed or it's not and if it is, keep all, not just some.

The law is not changed, but we are to allow it to be written in our hearts, and it will manifest outwardly. How can we say I am keeping the law in my heart but outwardly I'm doing the opposite?

The Commandments are the terms of the marriage covenant between the Father and His people. When they were given it was a marriage.
The Messiah is the sacrifice therefore, no longer requiring a daily or yearly sacrifice for sin. He took care of the priesthood and the sacrifice. But the Commandments stand forever. Even in the new Jerusalem they will be kept. Jeremiah 31 speaks of His covenant/commandments being written in our hearts but manifested outwardly. If we say the law is done away with, then we have to dismiss murder, homosexuality, adultery, stealing, graven images, etc. Just because the Sabbath does not go along with our tradition, does not mean it is to be dismissed.

The Commandments were written with the finger of the Father.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

you are so right, especially when it comes to the feast days:

Passover- Monday march 25, 2013 sundown and ends: Tues, march 26, 2013 sundown

feast of unleavened bread- begins1st night) tues march 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends : wed, march 27,2013 @ sundown

feast of unleavened bread- (7th night) begins : mon, april 1,2013 @ sundown and ends: tues, april 2, 2013 @ sundown

Pentecost- begins: SAT, MAY 18, 2013 @ sundown and ends MAY 19,
2013 @ sundown

the memorial of the blowing of the trumpets-
begins: thurs, sept 5, 2013 sundown and ends: sun, sept 6 2013, @ sundown

the day of atonement-
begins: sat, sept 14, 2013 @ sundown and ends: sun sept 15, 2013 @ sundown

feast of tabernacles (1st night)-
begins: thur sept 19, 2013@ sundown and ends: fri, sept 20, 2013 @ sundown

the 8th day, that great day of the feast-
begins: thur, sept 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends: fri, sept 27, 2013 @ sundown

SimplyBlessed, there is nothing wrong with keeping the feasts. They are good. But they were only the shadow of what was to come, Christ is the substance. Trying to keep OT law is basically worshipping the shadow when we need to be worshipping the person, which is Christ.

 

[blazingthru]

I honestly see both sides of the debate. It's Mrs.Haseeb and Shimmie make a very convincing and clear case, but on the other side, if we are to keep old testament laws, why is the Sabbath and meats, the only ones people choose to observe? What about all the other ones? That's where it gets sticky and folks are butting heads. Either it's changed or it's not and if it is, keep all, not just some.

I agree, though I see the the Sabbath and the meats are thrown out and the other commandments kept. Not to open the discussion any further, not on my part anyway, if we offend in any area of the Law we have broken them all. You are right in this.

I don't understand this theory about following the Laws in the spirit. I think its sinful. or keeping the Laws spiritual doesn't sound right to me. Sounds like something Satan has once again used to fool the faithful, but, that means I have to review this. Satan counterfeits everything that God sets in place, with the first lie, You shall not die. So now folks think the Sabbath has no value, Yet God spoke the Words, Wrote the Words, called them the Testimony, placed them in the ark and will use the testimony to judge the world so I don't see how its no longer relevant. But the fact that he will use it to judge the world should have hearts trembling and looking further into this.

 

[divya]

According to God it is. He said the first was flawed so he provided a better one. I didn't say it God did.

Yes, God did state that AND the following:

Matthew 5:18-19- 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, thus the law is still binding.

 

[Shimmie]

I agree, though I see the the Sabbath and the meats are thrown out and the other commandments kept. Not to open the discussion any further, not on my part anyway, if we offend in any area of the Law we have broken them all. You are right in this.

I don't understand this theory about following the Laws in the spirit.

I think its sinful. or keeping the Laws spiritual doesn't sound right to me. Sounds like something Satan has once again used to fool the faithful, but, that means I have to review this. Satan counterfeits everything that God sets in place, with the first lie, You shall not die. So now folks think the Sabbath has no value, Yet God spoke the Words, Wrote the Words, called them the Testimony, placed them in the ark and will use the testimony to judge the world so I don't see how its no longer relevant. But the fact that he will use it to judge the world should have hearts trembling and looking further into this.

Let's see if I can break this down...

The 'Spirit' is the heart of man. God's plan was to have His laws written within our hearts, for it is from our hearts that we 'move' upon. Jesus is the Law, the Eternal Law which came to redeem us.

When we accepted Jesus into our hearts, His law became written within. It is in Him that we move and live and have our being.

The former acts of keeping the laws were 'outward' shadows which could not save us eternally. They were not within our hearts. Yet now through Jesus, the 'law' lives forever, Spirit, Soul and Body.

From the abundance of our hearts (the Spirit), the soul (the mind) and the body follows, as the heart follows Jesus....the Eternal Law.

I hope this is making sense the way that I wrote it.

As for the Sabbath day...

Something that has always been on my heart is that the Sabbath should be 'everyday.' Really, it should.

Too many go to Church on Sunday or Saturday and think that's it... the rest of the week is folly. Each day should be regarded as a day as unto the Lord. Take a Sabbath break during each day, that is devoted just to Jesus and no one, nothing else, just God alone. A time where your heart is devoted truly to Him and no other distractions are allowed to get in.

It truly does not matter to God one bit which day the Sabbath is celebrated. God is not ritual, He is not bondage, God is not a jailer. He indeed deserves a day of Honour and respect where we gather together as the Body to worship as one.

I would like to think that Both Saturday and Sunday are excellent for 'whosoever will', choose one or the other to worship. For this shuts down and begins the entire weekend and new week ahead that has been reserved for God alone. Just think how much we can accomplish in the Body of Christ, by coming together in agreement on this.

The Saturday worshipers 'cover' the Sunday worshipers and the Sunday worshipers cover the Saturday worshipers.

And I am sooooooooooo SERIOUS about this. This of the 'Stone Wall' that we are building to guard and protect each other, rather than waste precious life and time, in disagreement about it.

Listen the the strength calling out:

Saturday Family to the Sunday Family:

"I got you... I got your backs'. Go ahead and be blessed with your services, we have you under cover and nothing will get past us. We got your back.

Sunday Family to the Saturday Family:

We got you...ain't no weapon big enough that can prosper against you. You go ahead and worship, be blessed in your Sabbath. The enemy has to get past us to get to you and that is not happening." We have your backs and we love and honour you as our brothers and sisters.

Can anyone see the beauty in this? It's not about the day, it is about the heart, the true and loving spirit of coming together as one and not allowing satan to have a foothold in our love for another.

God does not care which day it is. He truly doesn't. He cares more about the love we have for each other and somehow, we have to laid it aside about the days which are lost in disagreements, which can never be regained.

I'll be first...cause I am guilty as can be. I'll be first to say, "I'm laying it aside', disabling my pride. Sabbath should be 'everyday'.

In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen.

 

[divya]

Please stop adding things to the Bible that's not there... The Bible does not tell us that only the ceremonial laws passed away. You are adding that so that it fits in line with what you already believe. The entire old covenant has been replaced by the new.

That is in no way an addition to the Bible. That Bible states that the sacrificial/ceremonial laws alone (the ordinances written by Moses) were nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14-16 - 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

The Ten Commandments were first written on tablets of stone by the finger of God Himself. (Deuteronomy 5:22)

The handwriting of ordinances - which had specifics regarding meat, drink, holydays, new moons and non-weekly sabbaths (falling on different days, connected with the feasts) - were handwritten by Moses. Those laws are separate from the Ten Commandments, which are also referred to as the royal law.

2 Chronicles 33:8
Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Ex. 24:4-5 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the Lord.

2 Chronicles 35:12 - And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.

Deut 31:9-11- 9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Exodus 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and [/b[laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

Again, the ordinances were handwritten by Moses alone and separate from the Ten Commandments which were written by the finger of God. The ordinances contain instruction regarding what is spoken of in Colossians 2:14-16, which were stated to be nailed to the cross.

Kurlee - perhaps this post can help with the distinction between laws. The Old Testament has different types of laws within it and with careful reading one can understand what is being referred to later on.

 

[divya]

Gal 5:4

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Rom 3:20

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

The above verses do not do away with the law, but simply state that we are not justified by the law. Christ alone JUSTIFIES.

That is why Romans makes clear:

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So as stated above, the law is not void. The verses in Gal and Romans simply clarifies what the law does and does not do versus what Christ does for us.

Romans 3:19-20 - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law points out sin, so that we understand just what is sin in the eyes of God (stealing, lying, Sabbath breaking, coveting etc). But we are justified by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8-9

Heb 2:13-15

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

The ordinances were written by Moses and contained within the book of Moses. Such laws are separate from the Ten Commandment laws, which were written by the finger of God.

 

[Leigh]

Yes, God did state that AND the following:

Matthew 5:18-19- 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, thus the law is still binding.

Yes, and Jesus fulfilled the law. The New Testament, which is the new Will, went into effect upon his death.

I've provided scripture after scripture going in the Old Testament when God said He was going to create a new covenant because the one that Moses wrote after coming out of Egypt was flawed.

Rom 7 says the old covenant, the Old Testament, the old will was done away with. Jesus didn't write a codicil to the OT. No, he created a new one, a new will, and a new way. Like any will, some of what was in the old will was transferred over, however, He added so much more and yes, He changed some directives.

The law was based on Flesh. It was based on self reliance. Jesus came and said nuh uhn, no man cometh to the Father except by me. He is the propitiation for our sins, and thereby we are saved by grace. We do nothing to obtain righteousness. We are righteous because He is righteous and we are in Him.

Total dependence on God is what's called for. He loves us so much He gave his Son as a blood offering to once and for all save us.

So yes, the base of the Ten Commandments are in the New Testament. Yes, we follow them, but not because they were in the Old Testament. Absolutely not. We follow them because the new will is in effect and they are in their along with many more. There are no longer Ten Commandments as in the Old Testament. There are many commandments.

It is so explicit throughout the New Testament that the Old was done away with. No where do I read that only a few rituals were obsolete. I read the entire covenant is obsolete. I read it is for our learning. It provides great examples and encouragement.

There is a difference between looking in the Old Testament to get an idea of how to do a fast and intentionally looking in the Old Testament to follow the 10 commandments. God says don't do this. I provided the scripture above.

Jesus said a new commandment I give you.... He also said that you've heard of old do not murder...but He says whoever is angry with his brother is...

Who creates a new will but reads from a portion of the old will? Even when that portion is the same as in the new will, the new will is what's read. The new will is what's gone by.

 

[Leigh]

That is in no way an addition to the Bible. That Bible states that the sacrificial/ceremonial laws alone (the ordinances written by Moses) were nailed to the cross.

The Ten Commandments were first written on tablets of stone by the finger of God Himself. (Deuteronomy 5:22)

The handwriting of ordinances - which had specifics regarding meat, drink, holydays, new moons and non-weekly sabbaths (falling on different days, connected with the feasts) - were handwritten by Moses. Those laws are separate from the Ten Commandments, which are also referred to as the royal law.

Again, the ordinances were handwritten by Moses alone and separate from the Ten Commandments which were written by the finger of God. The ordinances contain instruction regarding what is spoken of in Colossians 2:14-16, which were stated to be nailed to the cross.

Kurlee - perhaps this post can help with the distinction between laws. The Old Testament has different types of laws within it and with careful reading one can understand what is being referred to later on.

Will you please provide the scripture that says the sacrificial laws alone were nailed to the cross?

I read that the old agreement which encompassed more than just sacrificial/ceremonial laws was done away with and a new agreement is in effect.

 

[Leigh]

2 Cor 3:1-11

Chapter 3
Ministers of the New Covenant
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses 'face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

The Sabbath day commanded by the Father cannot be everyday. He only commanded the 7th day. If we are to keep the Sabbath everyday, no one will be able to work.

Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
　
Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 5:2-3
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
　

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, You who practice Lawlessness.'

Lawlessness is the transgression of the law, violation of the law, having contempt for the law.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The Law stands and we are to live by it. The 10 are the snapshot of the the terms of the covenant. Written on our hearts if we allow it, manifested in our lives by our obedience to the Father's Commands.


Matthew 15:3 The Messiah questions the Pharisees on keeping the precepts of men over the Commandments of God.
"But he answered and said unto them,Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

Matthew 15:8-9 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 but in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

 

[divya]

Will you please provide the scripture that says the sacrificial laws alone were nailed to the cross?

I read that the old agreement which encompassed more than just sacrificial/ceremonial laws was done away with and a new agreement is in effect.

The Scriptures are provided. The ordinances ARE simply another term used for the sacrificial/ceremonial laws that were written by the hand of Moses. If you look at the Old testament, what group of ordinances contain directives regarding meat, drink, new moons, sabbaths, and holy days in one? Those ordinances written by Moses.

You cannot find the combination of those in the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not the handwritten ordinances.

 

[divya]

Yes, and Jesus fulfilled the law. The New Testament, which is the new Will, went into effect upon his death.

I've provided scripture after scripture going in the Old Testament when God said He was going to create a new covenant because the one that Moses wrote after coming out of Egypt was flawed.

Rom 7 says the old covenant, the Old Testament, the old will was done away with. Jesus didn't write a codicil to the OT. No, he created a new one, a new will, and a new way. Like any will, some of what was in the old will was transferred over, however, He added so much more and yes, He changed some directives.

The law was based on Flesh. It was based on self reliance. Jesus came and said nuh uhn, no man cometh to the Father except by me. He is the propitiation for our sins, and thereby we are saved by grace. We do nothing to obtain righteousness. We are righteous because He is righteous and we are in Him.

Total dependence on God is what's called for. He loves us so much He gave his Son as a blood offering to once and for all save us.

So yes, the base of the Ten Commandments are in the New Testament. Yes, we follow them, but not because they were in the Old Testament. Absolutely not. We follow them because the new will is in effect and they are in their along with many more. There are no longer Ten Commandments as in the Old Testament. There are many commandments.

It is so explicit throughout the New Testament that the Old was done away with. No where do I read that only a few rituals were obsolete. I read the entire covenant is obsolete. I read it is for our learning. It provides great examples and encouragement.

There is a difference between looking in the Old Testament to get an idea of how to do a fast and intentionally looking in the Old Testament to follow the 10 commandments. God says don't do this. I provided the scripture above.

Jesus said a new commandment I give you.... He also said that you've heard of old do not murder...but He says whoever is angry with his brother is...

Who creates a new will but reads from a portion of the old will? Even when that portion is the same as in the new will, the new will is what's read. The new will is what's gone by.

That is not what the Scriptures state.

Matthew 5:18-19 states:
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth have not yet passed away, so all is not fulfilled. So as the Scripture states, no part of the law has yet passed away.

No one is stating that we are not saved by grace, we are.

 

[Shimmie]

The Sabbath day commanded by the Father cannot be everyday. He only commanded the 7th day. If we are to keep the Sabbath everyday, no one will be able to work.


Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
　
Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 5:2-3
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
　

Hi Health&hair28 ... Welcome back.

I'm speaking from the matter of the heart, that the Sabbath should be kept each day...in our hearts.

Indeed physically it cannot be kept due to 'Life's responsibilities'. However, it can still be kept within our hearts.

Saturday and Sunday should not matter and God's Word clearly tells us to not waste time disputing over Sabbaths....


Colossians 2:10-23
King James Version (KJV)

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?


23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

-------------

When do we stop 'beguiling' one another? It's only a day / 24 hours and so not worth the dividing of our hearts towards one another.

It's just a day and because we are now 'One in Jesus' ... it does not matter to God which day one considers as worship.

For those who worship on Saturday.... Hey... I got you! I've got your back. We are still 'One' in Christ Jesus. You are still my Sisters and Brothers in Christ.

Those on Sunday.... Monday....Tuesday.......Wednesday...Thursday, Friday... Hey... I'm here and I've got your back. We truly cannot afford to miss anyday without it being dedicated unto the Lord.

Jesus is not Lord to us only one day of the week. Halleluijah for that! Glory for His Mercies upon us. Jesus is Lord Every Single Day of our lives and unto Him is each day given from our hearts to be glorified...

Loving Us Forever ...

In Jesus' Name, Amen.

"No matter the day... "I Got You".........Covered in Love. :heart2:

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Hi, Shimmie, I'm not judging, only posting what the Word states. I follow the words of the one who is coming back to save. I believe in accepting the truth even when it comes against traditions. The Sabbath is not authorized by the scriptures to be changed.

Paul became all things to all man, so people use Paul to disregard the words of the Father and the son. Paul cannot save.

He even agrees that we must obey, in this instance.

Romans 2:13
"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified"

 

[MrsHaseeb]

Hi, Shimmie, I'm not judging, only posting what the Word states. I follow the words of the one who is coming back to save. I believe in accepting the truth even when it comes against traditions. The Sabbath is not authorized by the scriptures to be changed.

Paul became all things to all man, so people use Paul to disregard the words of the Father and the son. Paul cannot save.

He even agrees that we must obey, in this instance.

Romans 2:13
"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified"

There was never a commandment for new testament believers to keep a Sabbath. Show me in the new testament if it is. Read Acts 15 and see what Peter said regarding the Gentile believers. Law puts a yoke on a person and the Holy Ghost never commanded them to keep a Sabbath or eat a certain diet to be saved. The Sabbath, as stated in Colossians was a shadow. of what was to come, which is Christ. Sabbath was not made to be 'worshipped' it was made to provide rest for the people. Now I see people who think 'going to church' on the Sabbath (which is impossible since the church consists of Spirit filled believers and you can't go to something that you are) sets you apart. The Sabbath was about rest for the people of Israel but today our rest in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. The problem I see with law keeping is that people are worshipping the shadow and not the substance, Jesus Christ. It is basically idolatry of the law. Worship is in Spirit and in truth. An atheist can keep laws. Jesus is looking for those who are born again and bear his nature. Only the fleshly nature needs laws to obey the Lord. A person born again and following Jesus will effortlessly keep the law if they walk in the Spirit. All law keeping does us make people have pride in human effort. When salvation is received by grace through faith Christ does a work, changing our nature, so that will walk in the good works prepared for us by nature. This way, no man can boast. This is why 'doing' laws is pointless. We are to be children of Abraham who had righteousness imputed to him by faith. The law was given to conclude all under sin because we cant keep it and so that we would go to Jesus and be saved. The law was never the problem, our nature was. This is why we must be born from above. If you're prepared to be judged by the entire law, then follow it by all means. If you're not, get to Jesus and have a nature change so that his righteousness will establish the law in you.

I have to be honest that I'm disturbed by all the people returning to the bondage of the law.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

First, the law is not bondage.

Psalms 119:42 "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth."

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple."

As far as Act 15 the instructions also included....Acts 15:20 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

But He makes it clear the Commandments stand and they include the Sabbath (4th Commandment), written by the finger of the Father.

Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

 

[MrsHaseeb]

First, the law is not bondage.

Psalms 119:42 "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth."

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple."

As far as Act 15 the instructions also included....Acts 15:20 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

But He makes it clear the Commandments stand and they include the Sabbath (4th Commandment), written by the finger of the Father.

Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

I didn't call the law bondage, the Bible does. It's bondage because our nature can't keep it. We need a new nature by being born from above.

Galatians 5:1-9 KJV
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [3] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. [4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. [5] For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [6] For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. [7] Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? [8] This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. [9] A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

First, the law is not bondage.

Psalms 119:42 "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth."

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple."

As far as Act 15 the instructions also included....Acts 15:20 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

But He makes it clear the Commandments stand and they include the Sabbath (4th Commandment), written by the finger of the Father.

Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Keeping law is again called a yoke in the verses below. Look how little Peter actually told the Gentile believers ... Why did he do that? Because they had received the Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit would rid them of the need for laws.

Acts 15:1-11, 19-21 KJV
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said , Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [2] When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. [3] And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. [6] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. [7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; [9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. [10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? [11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Keeping law is again called a yoke in the verses below. Look how little Peter actually told the Gentile believers ... Why dis he do that? Because they had received the Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit would rid them of the need for laws.

Acts 15:1-11, 19-21 KJV
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said , Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [2] When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. [3] And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. [6] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. [7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; [9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. [10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? [11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Notice that Peter states, that the law, books of written by Moses are read every Sabbath. This scripture does not do away with keeping the Commandments. Paul calls it bondage but David calls it a delight, truth, etc. I follow the one who died and in whom is salvation. His words are clear.

Psalm 119:

151 Thou art near, O Yah; and all thy commandments are truth.

171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.

172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

174 I have longed for thy salvation, O YAH; and thy law is my delight.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

Notice that Peter states, that the law, books of written by Moses are read every Sabbath. This scripture does not do away with keeping the Commandments. Paul calls it bondage but David calls it a delight, truth, etc. I follow the one who died and in whom is salvation. His words are clear.

Psalm 119:

151 Thou art near, O Yah; and all thy commandments are truth.

171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.

172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

174 I have longed for thy salvation, O YAH; and thy law is my delight.

Health&hair28.... The reason Peter said that is because there were Jews still practicing Judaism. The Christians were being kicked out of the synagogues. It wasn't the Christians going to the Synagogue hearing the law on the Sabbath. They met in homes, sometime daily. I'm to see a trend putting Paul against Jesus among professed Christians. The reason people go to the law is because they have somehow fallen from grace. Jesus Christ brought grace. You have a great day.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Health&hair28.... The reason Peter said that is because there were Jews still practicing Judaism. The Christians were being kicked out of the synagogues. It wasn't the Christians going to the Synagogue hearing the law on the Sabbath. They met in homes, sometime daily. I'm to see a trend putting Paul against Jesus among professed Christians. The reason people go to the law is because they have somehow fallen from grace. Jesus Christ brought grace. You have a great day.

Ma'am how have we fallen from grace by being obedient to the Commandments of God? Did not the Savior speak on teaching others to break the Commandments? Who is saving you?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There is no need for ill feelings or posting passive aggressive scriptures in RT. These discussions can help us grow and learn His truth.

You have a good one too.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

Ma'am how have we fallen from grace by being obedient to the Commandments of God? Did not the Savior speak on teaching others to break the Commandments? Who is saving you?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There is no need for ill feelings or posting passive aggressive scriptures in RT. These discussions can help us grow and learn His truth.

You have a good one too.

I'd never be passive aggressive. I'm pretty open for discussion with anyone. I simply see that something about your beliefs has changed from the old posts I used to read therefore I decided not to comment further. I'd never want you or any other lady here to feel that I have ill feelings at all

I worship Jesus the Christ, the fulfilling of the law, which was simply a shadow of the person. I have been saved by grace through faith.

 

[Leigh]

The Scriptures are provided. The ordinances ARE simply another term used for the sacrificial/ceremonial laws that were written by the hand of Moses. If you look at the Old testament, what group of ordinances contain directives regarding meat, drink, new moons, sabbaths, and holy days in one? Those ordinances written by Moses.

You cannot find the combination of those in the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not the handwritten ordinances.

--------Where?

 

[Shimmie]

Hi, Shimmie, I'm not judging, only posting what the Word states. I follow the words of the one who is coming back to save. I believe in accepting the truth even when it comes against traditions. The Sabbath is not authorized by the scriptures to be changed.

Paul became all things to all man, so people use Paul to disregard the words of the Father and the son. Paul cannot save.

He even agrees that we must obey, in this instance.

Romans 2:13
"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified"

Health&hair28...

I know you're not judging. We both know of each other a little better and you have one of the most loving and dedicated hearts and I know that God is well pleased when He looks down and smile upon you and.... with great favour.... Great favour.

So I know that you are not judging. This is your faith and it where you stand. And know this for sure, whether we are Saturday or Sunday... I've got you....because you are indeed my sister in prayer and in our faith in Jesus.

Love to Hubby and the children. Much love.

 

[Leigh]

That is not what the Scriptures state.

Matthew 5:18-19 states:
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth have not yet passed away, so all is not fulfilled. So as the Scripture states, no part of the law has yet passed away.

No one is stating that we are not saved by grace, we are.

Yes it is.

Rom 7:4-6
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:3

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[Kurlee]

Health&hair28.... The reason Peter said that is because there were Jews still practicing Judaism. The Christians were being kicked out of the synagogues. It wasn't the Christians going to the Synagogue hearing the law on the Sabbath. They met in homes, sometime daily. I'm to see a trend putting Paul against Jesus among professed Christians. The reason people go to the law is because they have somehow fallen from grace. Jesus Christ brought grace. You have a great day.

At bolded !!!!!!!!!