Homosexuality and Old Testament v. New Testament Law?

divya said:
Again, the issue is not worshiping God on Sunday or any other day. We should! However, we cannot keep every day Holy because the Lord blessed, sanctified and hollowed the Sabbath day. Isn't that what we were talking about, having worship service on Saturday not Sunday to keep the sabbath holy?

He did not do that for Sunday or any other day, and did not change the Sabbath (the 7th day). Lev.23:23-25 And the Lord spake unto Moses saying, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. There are many sabbaths that the Lord established and expected to be kept holy by the Jews not just the 7th day. I believe that there are also sabbath years. I ask you again, do you keep the sabbath as the Lord instructed in the O.T.?

Even if some people did digress from the truth and worship on Sunday previous to the occasion between Catholics and Constantine, it does not not may Sunday keeping as opposed to Sabbath keeping Biblical. It simply is not. I thought the issue wasn't about worshipping Him on Sunday or any other day. Where did He say that the only acceptable day we are to WORSHIP Him on Saturday?
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divya said:
Which again is evidence that the Sabbath remains for us to keep...
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But how and when should we keep it? According to Jewish law Jesus broke the Sabbath by working. As you said the Sabbath is made for man not the other way around. Why did Jesus work on the Sabbath and give the reason that He works because our Father is always working? Other than creation when did God rest on the 7th day? I'd like to check it out.
 
MSHONEY said:
Isn't that what we were talking about, having worship service on Saturday not Sunday to keep the sabbath holy?

(the 7th day). Lev.23:23-25 And the Lord spake unto Moses saying, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. There are many sabbaths that the Lord established and expected to be kept holy by the Jews not just the 7th day. I believe that there are also sabbath years. I ask you again, do you keep the sabbath as the Lord instructed in the O.T.?

I thought the issue wasn't about worshipping Him on Sunday or any other day.

Where did He say that the only acceptable day we are to WORSHIP Him on Saturday?
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Yes, we are discussing keeping the Sabbath holy. Certainly, you do understand what is being stated when you use keeping the Sabbath/worshipping interchangeably and I respond? Either way, keeping the Sabbath holy does not only include the service.

I believe that we keep the 7th day Sabbath, but that the sacrificial and ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross. Please see my earlier posts. That would include the ceremonies that you list above.
 
divya said:
Which again is evidence that the Sabbath remains for us to keep...
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. It talks about a new rest not the O.T. rest . Hebrews 4:8-16. We are to come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need at any time not just the O.T. sabbaths. That is THE rest that Jesus gave us. The Jesus in the 8th verse is speaking of Joshua not the Lord. For if Jesus (Joshua) has given tem rest, then he would not afterward have spoken of another day.
 
alexstin said:
But how and when should we keep it? According to Jewish law Jesus broke the Sabbath by working. As you said the Sabbath is made for man not the other way around. Why did Jesus work on the Sabbath and give the reason that He works because our Father is always working? Other than creation when did God rest on the 7th day? I'd like to check it out.
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Jesus had an issue with how Jews treated the Sabbath. Thus, He showed us how to keep the Sabbath, and He also rest on the Sabbath in death. He arose again on Sunday. Jesus gave us the proper example of God's law. If you look at the verses the adequate included, Jesus stated that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. He corrected the popular Jewish thinking on the Sabbath.
 
divya said:
Yes, we are discussing keeping the Sabbath holy. Certainly, you do understand what is being stated when you use keeping the Sabbath/worshipping interchangeably and I respond? Either way, keeping the Sabbath holy does not only include the service. How do you keep the sabbath holy and what does it have to do with going to church on Saturday? Where does it say that it includes service.? It is a tradition to hold worship service on Saturday just as it is a tradition to hold worship services on Sundays. It has NOTHING to do with keeping the sabbath holy.

I believe that we keep the 7th day Sabbath, but that the sacrificial and ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross. Please see my earlier posts. That would include the ceremonies that you list above.
Those are still sabbaths. He didn't say keep some of them not all of them. Where does it say that? Why not keep the 7th month sabbath? If you're going to perform the works of the law to be right with God you have to keep the WHOLE law.
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MSHONEY said:
No it doesn't. It talks about a new rest not the O.T. rest . Hebrews 4:8-16. We are to come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need at any time not just the O.T. sabbaths. That is THE rest that Jesus gave us. The Jesus in the 8th verse is speaking of Joshua not the Lord. For if Jesus (Joshua) has given tem rest, then he would not afterward have spoken of another day.
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Actually it is...

The very next verse states...

Hebrews 4:9 -11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Here is a decent explanation...

If something remains, it must have existed before. And if something existed before, and it remains, then it is the same thing that it was before. This should make clear, distinct sense to almost anyone, to anyone who appreciates clear, distinct sense.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

Is that clear, or not? You might be surprised, and I'm sure that not many people have shared this information with you, but the word employed here for "rest" is a fairly common one, it is Sabbath, or Shabbat, or Shabbath. From Strong's Dictionary, here is the definition:

4520 sabbatismos (sab-bat-is-mos');
from a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):
KJV-- rest.

This word is a derivative of 4521:

4521 sabbaton (sab'-bat-on);
of Hebrew origin [7676]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e., the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:
KJV-- sabbath (day), week.

Here in the Book of Hebrews is clear proof of the Sabbath and its special meaning for the Christian. Here, the special rest that is found in Christ, for all eternity in heaven, is directly compared to the weekly Sabbath.
The Amplified Bible interprets this passage as:

So then, there is still a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God.
Hebrews 4:9

The Sabbath that remains, the Sabbath that existed before, the Sabbath that was instituted at the creation of the world. The Sabbath that was memorialized at Mt. Horeb by the Finger of God. The Sabbath exists today, and it is a sign and a symbol of our eternal existence with Jesus.

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 66:22-23

The Sabbath, God's first gift to man, will exist forever. It existed before sin entered the world, before marriage, before the fall of mankind, and it will exist in heaven. And yet so many claim it has passed away, that it was nailed to the cross, that it was destroyed, that it was changed, that it was voted out for a more popular day, that it was only given to a certain people, that it never belonged in the Ten Commandments in the first place, which were given to all people -- a lot of things are said, and claimed, and oathed, and promised, and swore, and cursed, and whispered -- but go to God's Word, it will tell you the truth. It IS God's Word.

Hebrews Chapter 4 clearly defines the Sabbath as both a reality, not just a symbol, but also as a symbol of what is to come. Of what we have today, rest in Christ, all of us that are burdened and heavy-laden, and also what we have in eternity, what we will only have AFTER the return of Christ, after the Resurrection, something to look forward to. Hebrews 4 tells us that the Sabbath, the seventh-day Sabbath is a tiny taste of heaven to come, a break in time for us to celebrate God's first gift to us, a break in time for us to be especially wooed by the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a symbol of Christ (in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God), the Sabbath is a sign of God's grace, a pure taste of heaven that God instituted here on Earth BEFORE sin spoiled things.

So the Sabbath is a "shadow" in that it pertains to our eternal rest with Christ, in heaven, our rest long after the troubles of this world are past. It is not a "shadow" in the usual sense of the world, as "types" that reflect the price that Jesus paid on the cross -- it cannot pertain to sin, because it existed BEFORE sin (at least before sin existed on this earth, there is the distinct possibility that it existed in one rebel angel and the followers he duped into losing their own abode in heaven, that it existed long, long before the creation of this world; the Bible does not give us an actual timeline for when Lucifer chose to rebel against the Most High).

The Sabbath is a distinct "shadow" very much like "marriage," in that marriage is a type of our relationship with God, our "marriage" to God, which is the archetype. Marriage existed before sin entered the world -- do you hear many preachers screaming that we shouldn't get married anymore, because Jesus "did away with marriage at the cross?" Because the reality is Jesus? Now, we don't have to get married, because REAL marriage is between a Christian and Jesus.
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Gotta leave for a bit but I'll be back...
 
divya said:
Actually it is...

The very next verse states...

Hebrews 4:9 -11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Here is a decent explanation...



Gotta leave for a bit but I'll be back...
Click to expand...

God rested from creation, no? Again, Christ said the Father is always working, So what sort of rest are we laboring to enter into since the Father is working as we speak.

The author also states that the Sabbath is a shadow of things to come...our eternal rest in Heaven. Now, I have a couple of issues with that. First, when God put us here, an eternity in Heaven was not on His mind. We came out of Him. Why not keep us there if that's where He wanted us to be for all eternity?

Second, In Isaiah 45:18 , God said that He created the earth to be inhabited. Is there ever a time in scripture where God recanted this statement? If not, then spending all eternity in Heaven means that God contradicts His word about making earth to be inhabited.

Third, God is a God of restoration. When Adam and Eve sinned they didn't lose heaven so how would God restore us to Heaven. Restoration is only achieved when something is put back where it was. If I knock a book off a shelf and then pick it up and place it on a coffee table I have not restored that book to its proper place.
 
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divya said:
Actually it is...

The very next verse states...

Hebrews 4:9 -11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Click to expand...

And that day was not the O.T. sabbath. Verse 8, another means different not the same right. You can't give the same thing and say you've given another. Definition: Another 1. one more: an additional
bullet.gif
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need another person to help
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trans.gif
May I have another?

2. one that is different: somebody or something that is separate or different
bullet.gif
trans.gif
We need another accountant because ours is moving.
bullet.gif
trans.gif
This one is too dark; I would prefer another.

3. some other: some other one, or any other one
bullet.gif
trans.gif
at one time or another

This scripture states that we are to cease from our own works (establishing our own righteousness) and enter into the rest of Jesus not the other rest of the O.T. or going to church on Saturday. There is no where in the O.T. that worship services were to be held on Saturday exclusively. It's a tradition.
 
I worship on Sunday, but I just wanted to present this, to get understanding for myself and maybe others who are follwing the thread. According to this excerpt, the Sabbath was changed in the Bible from Saturday to Sunday. Could someone explain

No one will argue that the resurrection didn’t cause some dramatic changes in the lives of Jesus’ followers. It’s undeniable.

One of those changes, which might not appear significant to many, is how the disciples changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Sabbath day was Saturday, the day God rested after six days of creation. Honoring the Sabbath was a part of Mosaic law, the fourth of the Ten Commandments: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God” (Exodus 20:8–10). And yet Sunday, rather than Saturday, became the Sabbath for the early church.

Jesus had already indicated His own authority over the Sabbath: “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27–28). He centered the Sabbath on Himself, and by so doing He extended the Sabbath from just a Jewish practice to something experienced by the entire world—Gentiles included.

So when the Christians of the early church chose Sunday as their day for gathering to worship, the choice was centered on Christ’s resurrection and its universal message.

The biblical record for this change for the Sabbath is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2, where Paul gave instructions on gathering “on the first day of the week” in order to collect an offering, and in Acts 20:7, which mentions “the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread.”

Whereas the Jews functioned under the Law, believers in Jesus now live in grace. Grace and truth came in the person of Jesus, and through His resurrection we now live this new life. Resurrection day, Sunday, is now the day of worship for those who have put their faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
 
DonnaDi31Proverbi said:
I worship on Sunday, but I just wanted to present this, to get understanding for myself and maybe others who are follwing the thread. According to this excerpt, the Sabbath was changed in the Bible from Saturday to Sunday. Could someone explain
Click to expand...

That verse says nothing about changing the Sabbath.
 
alexstin said:
God rested from creation, no? Again, Christ said the Father is always working, So what sort of rest are we laboring to enter into since the Father is working as we speak.

The author also states that the Sabbath is a shadow of things to come...our eternal rest in Heaven. Now, I have a couple of issues with that. First, when God put us here, an eternity in Heaven was not on His mind. We came out of Him. Why not keep us there if that's where He wanted us to be for all eternity?

Second, In Isaiah 45:18 , God said that He created the earth to be inhabited. Is there ever a time in scripture where God recanted this statement? If not, then spending all eternity in Heaven means that God contradicts His word about making earth to be inhabited.

Third, God is a God of restoration. When Adam and Eve sinned they didn't lose heaven so how would God restore us to Heaven. Restoration is only achieved when something is put back where it was. If I knock a book off a shelf and then pick it up and place it on a coffee table I have not restored that book to its proper place.
Click to expand...

Is there a time in the Bible where God recanted keeping the Sabbath holy? Every commandment was restated in the New Testament. Anyway, there is much longer explanation...

Here it is. Far too much to post but hope it is helpful...
http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/2008/01/hebrew-3-and-4-does-today-replace.html
 
DonnaDi31Proverbi said:
I worship on Sunday, but I just wanted to present this, to get understanding for myself and maybe others who are follwing the thread. According to this excerpt, the Sabbath was changed in the Bible from Saturday to Sunday. Could someone explain
Click to expand...
I agree with the article you posted.The word sabbath does not mean the seventh day it means the rest. The Lord established A sabbath on the seventh day.There are sabbath days that occured on days other than the seventh day of te week. We say Saturday is THE sabbath out of habit. The sabbath can be any day of rest for the people of God. In the O.T. there were sabbaths to be held on multiple days Lev.23:39 But more importantly we should rest from our own works(sabbath) and labor by denouncing our sins and rest(sabbath) in Jesus the Lord of the sabbath.
 
MSHONEY said:
And that day was not the O.T. sabbath. Verse 8, another means different not the same right. You can't give the same thing and say you've given another. Definition: Another 1. one more: an additional
bullet.gif
trans.gif
need another person to help
bullet.gif
trans.gif
May I have another?

2. one that is different: somebody or something that is separate or different
bullet.gif
trans.gif
We need another accountant because ours is moving.
bullet.gif
trans.gif
This one is too dark; I would prefer another.

3. some other: some other one, or any other one
bullet.gif
trans.gif
at one time or another

This scripture states that we are to cease from our own works (establishing our own righteousness) and enter into the rest of Jesus not the other rest of the O.T. or going to church on Saturday. There is no where in the O.T. that worship services were to be held on Saturday exclusively. It's a tradition.
Click to expand...

This is long but helpful...

http://adventist-defense-league.blog...y-replace.html

Again, no one said that people cannot come together and worship on another day. However, the truth is that the majority of Christians have abandoned keeping the Sabbath day for Sunday observance of various sorts. the Ten Commandments still stand and were not nailed to the cross. We cannot chose to follow some and not the others.
 
divya said:
That verse says nothing about changing the Sabbath.
Click to expand...

I'm no Bible scholar, but if you are talking about keeping the Sabbath and worshipping on the same day, then Acts 20:7 talks about coming together to break bread on the first day of the week, and in 1 Corinthians 16:2 they took up offering on the first day of the week, wouldn't those together equate to a worship service being held on Sunday?
 
MSHONEY said:
I agree with the article you posted.The word sabbath does not mean the seventh day it means the rest. The Lord established A sabbath on the seventh day.There are sabbath days that occured on days other than the seventh day of te week. We say Saturday is THE sabbath out of habit. The sabbath can be any day of rest for the people of God. In the O.T. there were sabbaths to be held on multiple days Lev.23:39 But more importantly we should rest from our own works(sabbath) and labor by denouncing our sins and rest(sabbath) in Jesus the Lord of the sabbath.
Click to expand...

The Bible said that the 7th Day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. The 7th day happens to be Saturday in this day in age. If people want to argue which day the Sabbath actually falls on, then that it fine. But what I know is that, Saturday is the 7th day of the week and so I will follow it.
 
DonnaDi31Proverbi said:
I'm no Bible scholar, but if you are talking about keeping the Sabbath and worshipping on the same day, then Acts 20:7 talks about coming together to break bread on the first day of the week, and in 1 Corinthians 16:2 they took up offering on the first day of the week, wouldn't those together equate to a worship service being held on Sunday?
Click to expand...

As stated earlier, no one said that people cannot come together and worship on another day. However, the truth is that the majority of Christians have abandoned keeping the Sabbath day for Sunday observance of various sorts. the Ten Commandments still stand and were not nailed to the cross. We cannot chose to follow some and not the others.
 
MSHONEY said:
I agree with the article you posted.The word sabbath does not mean the seventh day it means the rest. The Lord established A sabbath on the seventh day.There are sabbath days that occured on days other than the seventh day of te week. We say Saturday is THE sabbath out of habit. The sabbath can be any day of rest for the people of God. In the O.T. there were sabbaths to be held on multiple days Lev.23:39 But more importantly we should rest from our own works(sabbath) and labor by denouncing our sins and rest(sabbath) in Jesus the Lord of the sabbath.
Click to expand...

That has always been my question. Was there an actual day of the week established, or can any day of rest in honor of the Lord out of the 7 be designated as a Sabbath? I believe you answered that for me.
 
alexstin said:
Because the sabbath was made for man and the rest for believers is a state where you're no longer striving out of your flesh you've taken Jesus' yoke.
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And what does that mean to you?

Does that change the fact that if we love God, we should keep his Commandments?
 
divya said:
This is long but helpful...

http://adventist-defense-league.blog...y-replace.html

Again, no one said that people cannot come together and worship on another day. However, the truth is that the majority of Christians have abandoned keeping the Sabbath day for Sunday observance of various sorts. the Ten Commandments still stand and were not nailed to the cross. We cannot chose to follow some and not the others.
Click to expand...

Didn't you say some Christians chose to leave the truth and worship on Sunday? To me that statement sounds as if it's something we're not suppose to do. Again where does it say that we are suppose to hold worship service on Saturdays in the bible? And what does having service on Saturday have to do with keeping the sabbath holy? In order for it to be a requirement to keep the sabbath holy the Lord has to say have service on Saturday to keep the sabbath holy.
 
DonnaDi31Proverbi said:
That has always been my question. Was there an actual day of the week established, or can any day of rest in honor of the Lord out of the 7 be designated as a Sabbath? I believe you answered that for me.
Click to expand...

Why is 2-3 verses out of the Ten Commandment's problematic for many people but the other's aren't?
 
divya said:
As stated earlier, no one said that people cannot come together and worship on another day. However, the truth is that the majority of Christians have abandoned keeping the Sabbath day for Sunday observance of various sorts. the Ten Commandments still stand and were not nailed to the cross. We cannot chose to follow some and not the others.
Click to expand...
The commandment says keep the sabbath holy it doesn't say go to church on Saturday.
 
MSHONEY said:
Didn't you say some Christians chose to leave the truth and worship on Sunday? To me that statement sounds as if it's something we're not suppose to do. Again where does it say that we are suppose to hold worship service on Saturdays in the bible? And what does having service on Saturday have to do with keeping the sabbath holy? In order for it to be a requirement to keep the sabbath holy the Lord has to say have service on Saturday to keep the sabbath holy.
Click to expand...

Leave the truth as in, uphold one in place of the other. I believe I have clarified that but for some reason, you continue to harp on when you can hold a service. Why? Also do you disagree that coming together on the Sabbath - worship and fellowship - was not part of what the Lord wanted for us?
 
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