Giving of the Tithe - Scripture References

[kbragg]

Ok, see, now I see when ya'll start spittin' dem der words that I need to look up it's time for me to bow out!

So my final statement is this: I don't know about all that stuff, all I know is ever since I've been tithing the Lord has met our every need over and above what we've expected! Try it, you'll like it.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Precious Wavy, I've been there. I was in Church not just to sit and 'eat up the word', but I was there in the ministry of helps doing all that I could to be a blessing in the House of the Lord. Too many think that they are actually doing God a favor just by getting up and walking through the Church doors and sitting in the Pews.

They peel off their 'onenth' (1/10th of the Tithe); leave Church and go out to the Golden Coral, Red Lobster, IHop, spend a fortune, go to a movie, Blockbuster..........Ummmm, shop at Target, Walmart, Marshalls, whatever.

NOTE: Everyone is entitled to enjoy a meal after "Church", I personally hate having to rush home and cook dinner. But I'm making a point. If we truly support our home Church, we're not going to be stingy in doing so.

Too many times, I've given my 'last' and God blessed me so much, in ways that I couldn't imagine doing myself. I have so many testimonies of how He delivered me from so much shame.

If anything, Tithe just to show God how much He is appreciated. What we do with our money, tells us who we are. Our money is our Definer! Where we spend it, defines our priorities in life.

Again, I'm not speaking of anyone who is truly having challenges or simply does not have it. I was there and I know. I'm speaking of those who don't see the importance of the work of the Ministry being supported. God honors faithfulness to those who do see this.

Maintaining a ministry is not free... The Gospel.. God's Word is Free, but the work of the ministry, which includes a decent salary for the ministers is not free. Pastors don't just preach for the sake of preaching. They have to stay in prayer to be lead of the Lord each and every single day of their lives. It's entails much sacrifice and it's a call which does not allow for a job outside of the Church. Although many, many Pastors have outside jobs, (mine does), it's extremely sacrificial. For many are working to make up the financial difference to keep the Church running.

The Laborer is worthy of his hire. The word of God says we are not to muzzle an ox, but to allow it to eat freely of the brush (foliage) upon the ground that it's plowing. Pastors are to be rightly commensated for the work that they do.

The 'fools' in the media, have made it look as if all Pastors are fleecing the sheep, when in truth, its many of the sheep fleecing the Pastors. Pastors who give up their lives, just so they can answer to every beck and call of the congregation who thinks Pastor 'owes' them something.

But it works both ways, here. God designed a support system for all to benefit, but all have to cooperate.

My 'friend' gets ticked off when ppl do not face the reality of their decisons. He tells me this all the time, that people do not want to feel convicted of their sins; or to feel badly about the choices they've made, even when they know it's against 'God's will. They will use scripture to bow out of what's being called sin or rebellion. He shared that a person should just 'do it' but leave God out of it.

My gentle question to those who offer, "Who's picking up your slack?" How much are you contributing to keep the Church heat on to keep you in a warm comfortable seat. How many tithers and how many times has Pastor picked up your slack while you held back, that which you could have given as your fair share.

Nothing we utilize in this world is free. Nothing. Everything has a price to it, which is why God will honor one faithful to His works.

I'm not even a Pastor, yet I know what they go though. The demands, the trials, the ungratefullness. It's sad. Really sad.

Note: All of the above was spoken with the deepest of love. :heart2:

This part of your quote:
"But it works both ways, here. God designed a support system for all to benefit, but all have to cooperate..."
I agree. I agree that things should be done His way and not man's way.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Thank you. My faith is sound. I just wanted to clarify that

many other people have questions and are afraid to ask and move through their Christian life in doubt, uncertainty and unbelief on many things. Many are stumbled and need to be restored.

That is why these posts on the "tithing doctrines that are already "out there " in the world for the wrong reasons, (abuse of position and the Word of God) need to be Scripturally examined or clarified, not only for believers but for unbelievers. Those experiences took my eyes off following man. I do believe Ephesians 4:11-15. I was on solid 9 month bed rest carrying my second child when the Holy Spirit began to draw me. Miraculously my baby lived. I used to read my Bible daily for hours during those months and God really became real and ministered to me. I knew nothing about Christianity and so I went looking for answers and experienced those things. It happened. I do not let it affect my belief and trust in God. I have moved on from the experience. But many are being stumbled surrounding this tithing issue today and the Church has to step up to the plate and share, clarify and testify. We overcome by the blood of the lamb and by our testimony!

I want to say this regarding the quoted (then I'm going to bed) that there are many, many people who need to be saved and to be restored by re-dedicating their lives back to God. The bible explicitly speaks about salvation and what our role as believers ought to be in this hour. Although we may find a controversial topic here and there, the weighter matters are the souls of man, and all of us have been given this mandate to make sure that we pull them out of the fire. This is an area I don't find talked about much here on this forum and it would be a wonderful thing to have as many posts in a thread such as that, just as the one we have been discussing over the past few days.

In the book of Acts we read that as everyone (in the church) were in one accord, the Lord added daily to the church, such as should be saved. There were thousands of people getting saved daily...we need to mirror that in the churches in America and around the world, and in the LHCF Christianity Forum too.

I just wanted to share that.

May you be blessed.

 

[Mahalialee4]

QUOTE=Shimmie;3638783]I KNOW it's a 'pull' upon your life and energies. It's work and not easy work. It's a joy and an honor to be a Pastor, Minister, but it's work.

With all of our hearts, no one is being 'attacked' for the choices they've made to Tithe or not to Tithe. But when I saw it mentioned in a post above that the Gospel is Free, it had to be corrected. For even the Bible from which the Gospel is ministered, was paid for by someone.

What bothers me is that 'we' will pay out our monies to merchants and companies every single day who could care less about us and continue to make them rich (such as household items, credit card interest, shifty car dealers, dirty restaurants (you know what happens in restaurants), and yet not give God our best to keep the work of His going.[/QUOTE]

This quote:
But when I saw it mentioned in a post above

"that the Gospel is Free, it had to be corrected." For even the Bible from which the Gospel is ministered, was paid for by someone."

Actually I posted saying that for one. My specific point as you probably noted in my posts had to do with unreasonable demands for support, from a "wicked steward", and BINDING up heavy burdens on people. Some pastors do not do this. Some "pastors" do this.

But Salvation is free! The Word of God is Free! Jesus did not charge for one of the greatest sermons given. ( Sermon on the Mount,) speaking in the temple, teaching the disciples, denouncing the apostate Scribes and Pharisees! Philp the Evangelizer and the Ethiopian eunich. Acquilla and Pricilla witnessing to Saul/Paul, and all the books of the Old Testament and The New Testament. The writers...None of them received a dime for the writing down and the subsequent printing of the Words God put in their mouths. I personally do not think Bibles should be sold for profit! It would be nice if some of tithes went to provide Bibles to those who would like one and do not have one.

This does not mean that I live in a bubble, unaware of financial needs and the way things are done in this economy and that there are needs by Pastors and Christians in general. We should care for one another and none should be in want in the body. Now everything has $$$$a price on it's head. What would happen if the congregation got together and filled the pastor's freezer a couple of times a year. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
In regarding to the Word!
But when God gave it, it was FREE. He did not charge us. He gave us His Son, The Word and the promise of eternal life and we did not pay Him to do that. It was given because God loved us, and what we give should be given out of love and thankfulness for what God has done in our lives and just because He is God and the love of God in us compels us to give.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I want to say this regarding the quoted (then I'm going to bed) that there are many, many people who need to be saved and to be restored by re-dedicating their lives back to God. The bible explicitly speaks about salvation and what our role as believers ought to be in this hour. Although we may find a controversial topic here and there, the weighter matters are the souls of man, and all of us have been given this mandate to make sure that we pull them out of the fire. This is an area I don't find talked about much here on this forum and it would be a wonderful thing to have as many posts in a thread such as that, just as the one we have been discussing over the past few days.

In the book of Acts we read that as everyone (in the church) were in one accord, the Lord added daily to the church, such as should be saved. There were thousands of people getting saved daily...we need to mirror that in the churches in America and around the world, and in the LHCF Christianity Forum too.

I just wanted to share that.

May you be blessed.

I agree about the Great Commission mandate and I would welcome a thread about this cause Church "growth" is too often just people changing churches. Nite!

 

[Southernbella.]

Why should I give tithes and offerings, and why is tithing not considered optional?
The first reason is, JESUS SAID WE SHOULD! (see Matthew 23:23). The second and most practical reason might best be described by another question: “Do you want your finances under the authority of the “Devourer,” or the “Abundant giver?” (see Malachi 3:10-11).

Just to clarify...it's important, when we read scripture, to know the context. Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who were still under Mosaic Law, about tithing.

Jesus never collected a tithe, and Jesus never paid a tithe, and Jesus never asked his disciples to tithe, and if he did, it is not recorded in the Bible or any other historical source. I think it's misleading to say that Jesus told us we should, when that is definitely not what the scripture was about.

I thought this was interesting from a historical perspective; the tithe was originally instituted in the Christian church not as worship, but for fundraising:

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Prior to Constantine’s conversion, Christianity was illegal and, as discussed above, churches met secretly in homes with part-time leaders who had other sources of income. After his conversion, Constantine made Christianity both legal and a status symbol causing the Church to expand rapidly. The Church moved out of homes and into buildings and employed full-time ministers, thus creating a much greater need for income. The New Catholic Encyclopedia's article on tithing nicely summarizes this situation and what happened next:

"The early Church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated by the law of Christ…..As the Church expanded, however, and its material needs grew more numerous and complex, it became necessary to adopt a definite rule to which people could be held either by a sense of moral obligation or by a precept of positive law. The tithing of the Old Law provided an obvious model and it began to be taught—more commonly in the West, however, than in the East—that the faithful should give tithes of their income. When the view began to get sufficient support, it found legislative expression. The Council of Macon in 585 ordered payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply."


At the Council of Macon, almost 600 years after Jesus' death, a council of bishops got together and decided to institute the tithe.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Just to clarify...it's important, when we read scripture, to know the context. Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who were still under Mosaic Law, about tithing.

Jesus never collected a tithe, and Jesus never paid a tithe, and Jesus never asked his disciples to tithe, and if he did, it is not recorded in the Bible or any other historical source. I think it's misleading to say that Jesus told us we should, when that is definitely not what the scripture was about.

I thought this was interesting from a historical perspective; the tithe was originally instituted in the Christian church not as worship, but for fundraising:

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Prior to Constantine’s conversion, Christianity was illegal and, as discussed above, churches met secretly in homes with part-time leaders who had other sources of income. After his conversion, Constantine made Christianity both legal and a status symbol causing the Church to expand rapidly. The Church moved out of homes and into buildings and employed full-time ministers, thus creating a much greater need for income. The New Catholic Encyclopedia's article on tithing nicely summarizes this situation and what happened next:

"The early Church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated by the law of Christ…..As the Church expanded, however, and its material needs grew more numerous and complex, it became necessary to adopt a definite rule to which people could be held either by a sense of moral obligation or by a precept of positive law. The tithing of the Old Law provided an obvious model and it began to be taught—more commonly in the West, however, than in the East—that the faithful should give tithes of their income. When the view began to get sufficient support, it found legislative expression. The Council of Macon in 585 ordered payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply."


At the Council of Macon, almost 600 years after Jesus' death, a council of bishops got together and decided to institute the tithe.

True. This is regarding what I refer to as "ritualized demanded tax" based on greed and oppression. Satan always makes a counterfeit!

 

[PaperClip]

Hi. Actually I was not wanting an ambiguous exchange nor should you feel provoked.
I was hoping that you would just give a simple,
" No or Yes I was or was not assuming that it was people who are not believers, worshippers or have not experienced the joy of tithing is why they are raising all these questions and so they do not understand my (your)convictions" kind of answer."

And if you were assuming, I would only have replied that this is not necessarily the case for many who are questioning. No more would need to be exchanged about it. Rather than make an accusation or draw a false assumption as to what your statement meant...I chose to ask. Hope this helps.

The sentiment of my posts have not come from an "assuming" place. I have incorporated biblical scriptures in my responses. I cannot measure anyone else's JOY in any aspect of their spiritual expressions, including tithing and/or giving. And I am CERTAINLY open to anybody asking questions. I will ask a question of anybody so we're not afraid of questions over here.

What seems to bubble to the surface about tithing is that it is a specific form of giving with special meaning for (Holy) Spirit filled believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Tithing is a form of WORSHIP. The Word of God says that the Lord is seeking those who will worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Also, one of the ultimate purposes of tithing is for us to PUT THE LORD FIRST in EVERYTHING, including our finances. Giving the Lord our FIRST and our BEST in our finances. It's not about giving it to the pastor. Tithing is unto the LORD. Yes, we tithe (for the most part) through our local church body, but it is unto the Lord. So even if the pastor is crooked, if the pastor decides to steal the money or torch it in a BBQ pit, for a "true" tither, tithing for the RIGHT reasons (to worship the Lord, put Him FIRST in EVERYTHING, including finances), that person can stand before God and declare that they OBEYED the Word of God, they did what they were supposed to do.

I'll mention what Kbragg said: the principle of SOWING and REAPING is a UNIVERSAL principle. A person can flow in the principle of tithing (simply defined as giving the tenth) to whatever type of organization and because they SOWED, they will REAP. But the distinction is if they tithed as UNTO THE LORD or unto anything else OTHER THAN THE LORD. The Lord's not going to honor something that has nothing to do with Him, if a person didn't bring the Lord into their tithing.

Hopefully I made sense clear to be understood.

 

[Shimmie]

The sentiment of my posts have not come from an "assuming" place. I have incorporated biblical scriptures in my responses. I cannot measure anyone else's JOY in any aspect of their spiritual expressions, including tithing and/or giving. And I am CERTAINLY open to anybody asking questions. I will ask a question of anybody so we're not afraid of questions over here.

What seems to bubble to the surface about tithing is that it is a specific form of giving with special meaning for (Holy) Spirit filled believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Tithing is a form of WORSHIP. The Word of God says that the Lord is seeking those who will worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Also, one of the ultimate purposes of tithing is for us to PUT THE LORD FIRST in EVERYTHING, including our finances. Giving the Lord our FIRST and our BEST in our finances. It's not about giving it to the pastor. Tithing is unto the LORD. Yes, we tithe (for the most part) through our local church body, but it is unto the Lord. So even if the pastor is crooked, if the pastor decides to steal the money or torch it in a BBQ pit, for a "true" tither, tithing for the RIGHT reasons (to worship the Lord, put Him FIRST in EVERYTHING, including finances), that person can stand before God and declare that they OBEYED the Word of God, they did what they were supposed to do.

I'll mention what Kbragg said: the principle of SOWING and REAPING is a UNIVERSAL principle. A person can flow in the principle of tithing (simply defined as giving the tenth) to whatever type of organization and because they SOWED, they will REAP. But the distinction is if they tithed as UNTO THE LORD or unto anything else OTHER THAN THE LORD. The Lord's not going to honor something that has nothing to do with Him, if a person didn't bring the Lord into their tithing.

Hopefully I made sense clear to be understood.

Very clear, indeed.

RR, I admire the way you presented the information and carried the conversation in this thread. You and Lauren, shared your views and handled your conversation very well.

As always, you stood your ground, yet in humility and in love and without judgement of anyone.

I've always 'loved' your style, no matter who disagrees, you have class, Lady. You have class!

Not my humble opinon...The Truth!

 

[PaperClip]

Just to clarify...it's important, when we read scripture, to know the context. Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who were still under Mosaic Law, about tithing.

And to reiterate, Jesus didn't UNDO the LAW. He FULFILLED the law and, according to Hebrews 7, He wrote the law on our hearts and in our minds because it wasn't UNDONE... we're still supposed to DO those things, those principles that the law was established to ENFORCE because the Israelites were "stiff-necked" so there had to be "punishment" attached to the law to keep them in line. But through Jesus Christ, He fulfilled the law and took the punishment/curse off the law/principles....

 

[Nice & Wavy]

And to reiterate, Jesus didn't UNDO the LAW. He FULFILLED the law and, according to Hebrews 7, He wrote the law on our hearts and in our minds because it wasn't UNDONE... we're still supposed to DO those things, those principles that the law was established to ENFORCE because the Israelites were "stiff-necked" so there had to be "punishment" attached to the law to keep them in line. But through Jesus Christ, He fulfilled the law and took the punishment/curse off the law/principles....

RR, I appreciate you and how you allow God to really use you. You have such a gift...and it is evident in your posts. I know that even if we never get to meet here on earth, we shall meet in Heaven, and on that day..I want to give you the biggest hug you have ever had and I will say "Thank You" for being you.

Blessings...always!

 

[Southernbella.]

Very clear, indeed.

RR, I admire the way you presented the information and carried the conversation in this thread. You and Lauren, shared your views and handled your conversation very well.

As always, you stood your ground, yet in humility and in love and without judgement of anyone.

I've always 'loved' your style, no matter who disagrees, you have class, Lady. You have class!

Not my humble opinon...The Truth!

Thanks Shimmie! I agree, I told her that I really admire that about her. We may not always agree, but she is always up for explaining her views and having a healthy discussion. Not even just here, but in other forums too.

 

[shalom]

So...how does this apply to tithing, a form of GIVING TO THE LORD?

I think this ranks as one of the most overused, misinterpreted scriptures in the Word. SO. Most familiar scriptures are overused. It's bibical .

Look at the scripture: it says it would be "easier", not IMPOSSIBLE.[/quote]

Whatever, I'm not in the mood to dispute specifics here. I think everyone got my point. Also if the wording matters that much, not sure why it should, it could be looked up in any word seach bible.

Nothing really in regards to tithing (my sarcasm), but tithing is a form of giving (money, time etc...).

 

[shalom]

Wow. The Bible also says poverty is a CURSE. Also, you must look at the full Scripture in context. What was Jesus saying? He was saying that the rich who have their hope wrapped up in their riches will have a harder time getting into heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle. This scripture is almost as misquoted and pervert as "money is the root of all evil." It is a lie.

Here is what Matthew 19:16-26 actually says:


16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

As we see here, Jesus already knew the rich man's heart. We could discuss this all day but my question to you is this: if money is evil, why on EARTH would God have a habit of making people like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Solomon, David, and the list goes on filthy stinkin' rich?Why would God intentionally snare His own people? The answer is He wouldn't. If God allows you to obtain wealth, and IMO if you simply follow the teaching of the Bible pertaining to wealth (hint: It's not all about playing the offering plate lotto), it's because it's not all for YOU! I encourage you to check out the site www.gfa.org and get the free book Revolutions In World Missions. IMO God does not have a HUGE body of believers in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, where basically anyone with ambition, a great work effort, working as unto God, and many other Biblical Principles on how to obtain and properly stewart the increase God gives, by accident. It's strategic. A few hundred dollars a year given to oan organization like GFA can equipe these native missionaries to reach THOUSANDS with the Gospel. It's no accident Saints. Get out of you (our) "religious boxes" and what you've (we've) been taught and told. It's not all about us at all!

We are supposed to be a channel of blessing. Paul instructed the wealthy churches to give to the poor churches in Jerusalem, I believe God is saying today to the American churches to give to the poor churches in Asia. The money we have is NOT to build bigger church buildings, to do another kids bible camp, to buy expensive houses and cars, it's to be used to expand God's Kindom, and it's a little hard to do broke and in debt. Anywho, that's a whole nother topic lol.

Hello Darling,

This was just my sarcasm, no pun intended. I definately believe that God's expectation is for us to have wealth. But there's always so much controversy when it comes to giving and the church.

I love your heart and spirit and I thank you for not proposing your question to me in a combative way. :blowkiss: Peace.

 

[PaperClip]

So...how does this apply to tithing, a form of GIVING TO THE LORD?

I think this ranks as one of the most overused, misinterpreted scriptures in the Word. SO. Most familiar scriptures are overused. It's bibical .

Look at the scripture: it says it would be "easier", not IMPOSSIBLE.[/quote]

Whatever, I'm not in the mood to dispute specifics here. I think everyone got my point. Also if the wording matters that much, not sure why it should, it could be looked up in any word seach bible.

Nothing really in regards to tithing (my sarcasm), but tithing is a form of giving (money, time etc...).

Sincerely, I didn't get the point, which is why I asked how this applies to giving in general, and tithing in particular....

 

[shalom]

Sincerely, I didn't get the point, which is why I asked how this applies to giving in general, and tithing in particular....

No harm no foul.

 

[Shimmie]

Thanks Shimmie! I agree, I told her that I really admire that about her. We may not always agree, but she is always up for explaining her views and having a healthy discussion. Not even just here, but in other forums too.

The two of you really blessed me the way you shared your hearts on this.

 

[intellect_sensual]

I was just reading a little more on tithing and the Law etc... and what is said about it in the New Testamentr, since that teaches us Christians what we should do. This verse stood out to me, and felt like I should list it here....
Galatians 5:3-4
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[1] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Hebrew's 8:13
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrew 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Galatians 3:10 says
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

There are many Chapter's in the New Testament that says over and over that after the death of Christ we are in a period of grace, and faith, and NOT under the Law. All I have been saying many times, is why do we just take that one thing from the Law and practice it? The bible has said over and over if you chose to still practice things undr the law (whether 1 or 2), you are under the Curse. Yes I understand that people do it because the bible said the should. But if you look closely you will see that the bible has also said that there is no longer the need for such things. The turth is if you want to argue FOR tithing you have to use Old Testament scriptures, and the OLD law to back it up. Hebrew 10:9 says
9 then He said,</I> “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.”[a] He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

 

[intellect_sensual]

And to reiterate, Jesus didn't UNDO the LAW. He FULFILLED the law and, according to Hebrews 7, He wrote the law on our hearts and in our minds because it wasn't UNDONE... we're still supposed to DO those things, those principles that the law was established to ENFORCE because the Israelites were "stiff-necked" so there had to be "punishment" attached to the law to keep them in line. But through Jesus Christ, He fulfilled the law and took the punishment/curse off the law/principles....

With all due respect RR, this is not true, I have listed many scriptures above that states that we are NOT to practice things that were under the old law, and that if we do we place ourselves under the curse of the Old Law. Jesus cam,e to fulfil the Law you are right about that. He fulfilled it and made it obsolete. I am not saying this the Word says this (see my pp). If we are to keep the laws, are you doing everythng else under the law? If you are going to practice the laws you can't just pick and chose which one, you should do them all.

 

[intellect_sensual]

The sentiment of my posts have not come from an "assuming" place. I have incorporated biblical scriptures in my responses. I cannot measure anyone else's JOY in any aspect of their spiritual expressions, including tithing and/or giving. And I am CERTAINLY open to anybody asking questions. I will ask a question of anybody so we're not afraid of questions over here.

What seems to bubble to the surface about tithing is that it is a specific form of giving with special meaning for (Holy) Spirit filled believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Tithing is a form of WORSHIP. The Word of God says that the Lord is seeking those who will worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Also, one of the ultimate purposes of tithing is for us to PUT THE LORD FIRST in EVERYTHING, including our finances. Giving the Lord our FIRST and our BEST in our finances. It's not about giving it to the pastor. Tithing is unto the LORD. Yes, we tithe (for the most part) through our local church body, but it is unto the Lord. So even if the pastor is crooked, if the pastor decides to steal the money or torch it in a BBQ pit, for a "true" tither, tithing for the RIGHT reasons (to worship the Lord, put Him FIRST in EVERYTHING, including finances), that person can stand before God and declare that they OBEYED the Word of God, they did what they were supposed to do.

I'll mention what Kbragg said: the principle of SOWING and REAPING is a UNIVERSAL principle. A person can flow in the principle of tithing (simply defined as giving the tenth) to whatever type of organization and because they SOWED, they will REAP. But the distinction is if they tithed as UNTO THE LORD or unto anything else OTHER THAN THE LORD. The Lord's not going to honor something that has nothing to do with Him, if a person didn't bring the Lord into their tithing.

Hopefully I made sense clear to be understood.

My reply is mainly to the bolded. So are you saying that followers who tithe do so not because it is the law but because it shows a special relationship to God? I am a bit confused about that statement. I have said previosly that I think many see tithing as a blessing because it practices their faith in God. It is not of my opinion that it is because of just tithing, but the idea that you place behind it. You are moving in faith that because you are doing this God will bless you. It is more of the belief in God, than the actual tithing that is at work here.
Like I have said in my previous post the old Law no longer applies to us, and I have listed scriptures to back that up. We should put our emotional attachments for tithing aside to see the big picture here.

 

[PaperClip]

With all due respect RR, this is not true, I have listed many scriptures above that states that we are NOT to practice things that were under the old law, and that if we do we place ourselves under the curse of the Old Law. Jesus cam,e to fulfil the Law you are right about that. He fulfilled it and made it obsolete. I am not saying this the Word says this (see my pp). If we are to keep the laws, are you doing everythng else under the law? If you are going to practice the laws you can't just pick and chose which one, you should do them all.

I kindly refer to Hebrews 8:10 (NIV)

"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Amplified Bible
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


He fulfilled the punishment that would take place for them (and us) when
we would not fulfill the law by accident or on purpose. He did not UNDO the law, or else why would the Lord put the law in their/our minds and write them on our hearts? Not for just for fun! Everything the Lord God does is purposeful! He has the "law" in our minds and hearts so that we would continue to follow through on the principles/mandates, if you will, that He initially laid out. Recall that when the people disobeyed or did not follow the law, some of those laws meant that you had to be put to death! But because Jesus fulfilled the law, we are not put to death because He became the PERFECT SACRIFICE and we no longer have to do the animal sacrifices like the Israelites did...those sacrifices were imperfect.

And in terms of picking and choosing which laws to follow or not,it is the principles in which the laws were established to enforce which is the telling part to your question. So maybe as you offer a specific example of a particular law that would make sense to carry out today, we could unpack it and see how it applies....

 

[PaperClip]

My reply is mainly to the bolded. So are you saying that followers who tithe do so not because it is the law but because it shows a special relationship to God?
As this thread evolves, I am leaning to say it is BOTH.

I am a bit confused about that statement. I have said previosly that I think many see tithing as a blessing because it practices their faith in God. It is not of my opinion that it is because of just tithing, but the idea that you place behind it. You are moving in faith that because you are doing this God will bless you. It is more of the belief in God, than the actual tithing that is at work here.

Like I have said in my previous post the old Law no longer applies to us, and I have listed scriptures to back that up. We should put our emotional attachments for tithing aside to see the big picture here.

I am not sure what "emotional attachments" you are referring to. Worship can be emotional, but worship is what the Lord wants more from us than ANYTHING ELSE. Worship is what He created us to do. Worship means "to declare His Worthship", to put Him FIRST above ALL ELSE.

St. John 4:23-24 says "23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (KJV)

Amplified Bible
"You [Samaritans] do not know what you are worshiping [you worship what you do not comprehend]. We do know what we are worshiping [we worship what we have knowledge of and understand], for [after all] salvation comes from [among] the Jews.


23A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
24God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

The Message
"But the time is coming—it has, in fact, come—when what you're called will not matter and where you go to worship will not matter. It's who you are and the way you live that count before God. Your worship must engage your spirit in the pursuit of truth. That's the kind of people the Father is out looking for: those who are simply and honestly themselves before him in their worship. God is sheer being itself—Spirit. Those who worship him must do it out of their very being, their spirits, their true selves, in adoration."



Tithing is a form of worship.

 

[intellect_sensual]

I kindly refer to Hebrews 8:10 (NIV)

"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Amplified Bible
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


He fulfilled the punishment that would take place for them (and us) when
we would not fulfill the law by accident or on purpose. He did not UNDO the law, or else why would the Lord put the law in their/our minds and write them on our hearts? Not for just for fun! Everything the Lord God does is purposeful! He has the "law" in our minds and hearts so that we would continue to follow through on the principles/mandates, if you will, that He initially laid out. Recall that when the people disobeyed or did not follow the law, some of those laws meant that you had to be put to death! But because Jesus fulfilled the law, we are not put to death because He became the PERFECT SACRIFICE and we no longer have to do the animal sacrifices like the Israelites did...those sacrifices were imperfect.

And in terms of picking and choosing which laws to follow or not,it is the principles in which the laws were established to enforce which is the telling part to your question. So maybe as you offer a specific example of a particular law that would make sense to carry out today, we could unpack it and see how it applies....

Galatians 5:3-4
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[1] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Hebrew's 8:13
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrew 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Galatians 3:10 says
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

 

[intellect_sensual]

Those are but a few scriptures spoken about after the death of Christ that consistently states that these laws are obsolete. The New Law is what is imprinted in our minds and heart, not the ones of old, and the bible has made that clear. I won't go on to address the other part of your post about the principles because like stated the verses speak for themselves.

ETA: I will list an example though like you asked, and I would be happy to disect it with you. Hw about the one about women being unclean during her cycle? Under the Old Law, she was not to sleep with her husband, wherever she sat was unclean, she couldn't go to church during her cycle, and she was to be set apart from everyone. What about that one?

 

[PaperClip]

Galatians 5:3-4
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[1] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Hebrew's 8:13
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrew 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Galatians 3:10 says
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Exactly... observing the law WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST.

Please include the other verses before Hebrews 8:13
Hebrews8:7For if that first covenant had been without defect, there would have been no room for another one or an attempt to institute another one. 8However, He finds fault with them [showing its inadequacy] when He says, Behold, the days will come, says the Lord, when I will make and ratify a new covenant or agreement with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. BIt will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day when I grasped them by the hand to help and relieve them and to lead them out from the land of Egypt, for they did not abide in My agreement with them, and so I withdrew My favor and disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Please include other verses around Galatians 10:
10 All those who expect the Law to save them from the punishment of sin will be punished. Because it is written, "Everyone who does not keep on doing all the things written in the Book of the Law will be punished." (Deuteronomy 26:27) 11 No one is made right with God by doing what the Law says. For, "The man right with God will live by faith." (Habakkuk 2:4) 12 The Law does not use faith. It says, "You must obey all the Law or you will die." (Leviticus 18:5) 13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law. In that way, the Law could not punish us. Christ did this by carrying the load and by being punished instead of us. It is written, "Anyone who hangs on a cross is hated and punished." (Deuteronomy 21:23) 14 Because of the price Christ Jesus paid, the good things that came to Abraham might come to the people who are not Jews. And by putting our trust in Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit He has promised.

Same chapter of Galatians 10:
19 Then why do we have the Law? It was given because of sin. It was to be used until Christ came. The promise had been made looking toward Christ. The Law was given by angels through Moses who stood between God and man. 20 But when the promise was given to Abraham, God gave it without anyone standing between them. 21 Is the Law against the promise of God? No! Never! If it had been possible to be saved from the punishment of sin by obeying the Law, then being right with God would have come by obeying the Law. 22 But the Holy Writings say that all men are guilty of sin. Then that which was promised might be given to those who put their trust in Christ. It will be because their faith is in Him.

 

[PaperClip]

Those are but a few scriptures spoken about after the death of Christ that consistently states that these laws are obsolete. The New Law is what is imprinted in our minds and heart, not the ones of old, and the bible has made that clear. I won't go on to address the other part of your post about the principles because like stated the verses speak for themselves.

ETA: I will list an example though like you asked, and I would be happy to disect it with you. Hw about the one about women being unclean during her cycle? Under the Old Law, she was not to sleep with her husband, wherever she sat was unclean, she couldn't go to church during her cycle, and she was to be set apart from everyone. What about that one?

Exactly what is the New Law? Where is it emphatically and specifically listed?

Yes.... that was actually one law that I was thinking about as an example. I would have to do more research to get a better understanding.... I think it would be safe to say that CULTURAL PRACTICES played a major role in how such guidelines were established. Cultural beliefs about women in general and their menstrual cycles in particular probably had some "interesting" things attached.... Plus, lots of guidelines were instituted simply to keep both spiritual and natural cleanliness, maybe?

What would have been the principle behind the law for a woman to be separated from her husband and others during her cycle? Again, I'd have to explore the topic to give a cogent response....

 

[intellect_sensual]

Exactly what is the New Law? Where is it emphatically and specifically listed?

Yes.... that was actually one law that I was thinking about as an example. I would have to do more research to get a better understanding.... I think it would be safe to say that CULTURAL PRACTICES played a major role in how such guidelines were established. Cultural beliefs about women in general and their menstrual cycles in particular probably had some "interesting" things attached.... Plus, lots of guidelines were instituted simply to keep both spiritual and natural cleanliness, maybe?

What would have been the principle behind the law for a woman to be separated from her husband and others during her cycle? Again, I'd have to explore the topic to give a cogent response....

Why do we need to have culural practices back up the word of God now that we are talking about another one of the laws? If it was a law and as you are saying that is the law that is inscribed in our hearts and minds, shouldn't it be relevant today? The Word should stil rmain today, regardless of any changes right? And so if we are to still practice these laws as you say, then we should practice that one also, regardless of what changes are made in society, because the Lord said so. Isn't that the argument for tithing? Just a question.

 

[intellect_sensual]

Exactly... observing the law WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST.

Please include the other verses before Hebrews 8:13
Hebrews8:7For if that first covenant had been without defect, there would have been no room for another one or an attempt to institute another one. 8However, He finds fault with them [showing its inadequacy] when He says, Behold, the days will come, says the Lord, when I will make and ratify a new covenant or agreement with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. BIt will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day when I grasped them by the hand to help and relieve them and to lead them out from the land of Egypt, for they did not abide in My agreement with them, and so I withdrew My favor and disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Please include other verses around Galatians 10:
10 All those who expect the Law to save them from the punishment of sin will be punished. Because it is written, "Everyone who does not keep on doing all the things written in the Book of the Law will be punished." (Deuteronomy 26:27) 11 No one is made right with God by doing what the Law says. For, "The man right with God will live by faith." (Habakkuk 2:4) 12 The Law does not use faith. It says, "You must obey all the Law or you will die." (Leviticus 18:5) 13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law. In that way, the Law could not punish us. Christ did this by carrying the load and by being punished instead of us. It is written, "Anyone who hangs on a cross is hated and punished." (Deuteronomy 21:23) 14 Because of the price Christ Jesus paid, the good things that came to Abraham might come to the people who are not Jews. And by putting our trust in Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit He has promised.

Same chapter of Galatians 10:
19 Then why do we have the Law? It was given because of sin. It was to be used until Christ came. The promise had been made looking toward Christ. The Law was given by angels through Moses who stood between God and man. 20 But when the promise was given to Abraham, God gave it without anyone standing between them. 21 Is the Law against the promise of God? No! Never! If it had been possible to be saved from the punishment of sin by obeying the Law, then being right with God would have come by obeying the Law. 22 But the Holy Writings say that all men are guilty of sin. Then that which was promised might be given to those who put their trust in Christ. It will be because their faith is in Him.

I don't see how the rest of this chapter, or any of the things you listed here, take anything away from what I said. I never said the laws were not made. They were, what I am saying now, is now that Jesus has come, how does these laws affect us as Christians today, and the bible has stated consistently that they became obsolete when Jesus completed what was started. If I wrong please I welcome your input, and explanation.

 

[Shimmie]

I KNOW it's a 'pull' upon your life and energies. It's work and not easy work. It's a joy and an honor to be a Pastor, Minister, but it's work.

With all of our hearts, no one is being 'attacked' for the choices they've made to Tithe or not to Tithe. But when I saw it mentioned in a post above that the Gospel is Free, it had to be corrected. For even the Bible from which the Gospel is ministered, was paid for by someone.

What bothers me is that 'we' will pay out our monies to merchants and companies every single day who could care less about us and continue to make them rich (such as household items, credit card interest, shifty car dealers, dirty restaurants (you know what happens in restaurants), and yet not give God our best to keep the work of His going.

This quote:
But when I saw it mentioned in a post above

"that the Gospel is Free, it had to be corrected." For even the Bible from which the Gospel is ministered, was paid for by someone."

Actually I posted saying that for one. My specific point as you probably noted in my posts had to do with unreasonable demands for support, from a "wicked steward", and BINDING up heavy burdens on people. Some pastors do not do this. Some "pastors" do this.

But Salvation is free! The Word of God is Free! Jesus did not charge for one of the greatest sermons given. ( Sermon on the Mount,) speaking in the temple, teaching the disciples, denouncing the apostate Scribes and Pharisees! Philp the Evangelizer and the Ethiopian eunich. Acquilla and Pricilla witnessing to Saul/Paul, and all the books of the Old Testament and The New Testament. The writers...None of them received a dime for the writing down and the subsequent printing of the Words God put in their mouths. I personally do not think Bibles should be sold for profit! It would be nice if some of tithes went to provide Bibles to those who would like one and do not have one.

This does not mean that I live in a bubble, unaware of financial needs and the way things are done in this economy and that there are needs by Pastors and Christians in general. We should care for one another and none should be in want in the body. Now everything has $$$$a price on it's head. What would happen if the congregation got together and filled the pastor's freezer a couple of times a year. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
In regarding to the Word!

But when God gave it, it was FREE. He did not charge us. He gave us His Son, The Word and the promise of eternal life and we did not pay Him to do that. It was given because God loved us, and what we give should be given out of love and thankfulness for what God has done in our lives and just because He is God and the love of God in us compels us to give.

Precious Mahailee, don't be deceived by satan. For this is the mindset that he alone places into the hearts of Christians to hinder the move of God's work upon the earth. Our money is going to 'move' something in this earth...be it the Gospel or the world's system. And sadly, it is the money from Christians that satan is taken rule of to promote his works, over God's.

Dear one, in all that you've shared, is this your justification for not tithing? I'm only asking for when one fights so hard not to do something it's because they simply do not 'want' to do it. I present this to you and to anyone who calls themselves a follower of Jesus Christ and who loves Him.

There's a word in the Bible which says, "it is our 'reasonable service'. Meaning, there are no debates, options or arguments to justify what is expected of us, for we are simply to do it, for it is our 'reasonable service', it comes with the territory.

Jesus said that were our treasure is, our hearts would be also. I can tell you that anyone who places as little into the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as they can, and more into the world's system, has chosen their God.

Where your treasure is....there you will find your heart.

For too many Christians, money has become their God and those who do not support the Gospel of Jesus with it, are just as bad as the 'bad' apples in the pulpit who mis-use it. For both are doing the same...for both are stealing from the Lord.

"Tithing" is a Covenant, a commitment between the Tither and God that when we do His will, He will guarantee our provision and protection. Outside of that is purely a gamble and it is not worth the risk. God never changed His Covenant promises with us. He never will. The Tithe still rules and reigns no matter what the argument against it presents. For the argument and deception of justification will never prove itsself otherwise.

Give God credit for knowing what He is expecting of us. Those who trust Him and those who do not.

If you chose not to tithe, that's your choice, but never blame it on God for it is not He who has made this decision, it is yours alone...never His.

The money is going somewhere, with God you have a guaranteed security with high interest.

Tell satan to get the 'hell' out of your finances and allow God to be your Banker, for right now, you are a servant to your lender and always will be in his bondage financially.

 

[PaperClip]

Why do we need to have culural practices back up the word of God now that we are talking about another one of the laws? If it was a law and as you are saying that is the law that is inscribed in our hearts and minds, shouldn't it be relevant today? The Word should stil rmain today, regardless of any changes right? And so if we are to still practice these laws as you say, then we should practice that one also, regardless of what changes are made in society, because the Lord said so. Isn't that the argument for tithing? Just a question.

I'm not using cultural practices to back up the Word.... Like I said, I would have to explore the cultural/historical background to understand how it all worked together....

Maybe it had something to do with blood.... the Lord takes blood very seriously.... Even with dietary laws... the laws around that said that they could not drink or ingest blood....

I came across this website: http://www.atruechurch.info/sexduringmenstruation.html