Giving of the Tithe - Scripture References

[Nice & Wavy]

Does anyone else see tithing as a Holy Spirit issue? I’m talking the Holy Spirit that gives us the same power that God used to raise Jesus from the dead?

As a spirit filled, believer tithing is not an option for me nor is it a free will act. I'm compelled to do so. Much like others have stated I have seen a dramatic difference in my finances. But it doesn’t stop there. Being blessed in my opinion has very little to do with an abundance of money but more to do with spiritual growth. As my tithes and offerings have increased, so has my spiritual maturity. And really spiritual maturity is all that we should seek. Money comes and goes. In a world where the almighty dollar is more important than the Almighty God, I place my total and complete faith in God concerning my finances. I do that by giving him at least 10 percent just like it states in the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a blue print from which to build your foundation. Because I have a new builder, doesn’t mean I should throw out my blueprint. At the end of the day, it still gives me great direction.


1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.1 Cor 16:1-2

23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-- mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-- justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.Matt 23:23

Mocha's back.....whoo-hoo....

Welcome back...sis...I miss you!

 

[TrustMeLove]

Does anyone else see tithing as a Holy Spirit issue? I’m talking the Holy Spirit that gives us the same power that God used to raise Jesus from the dead?

As a spirit filled, believer tithing is not an option for me nor is it a free will act. I'm compelled to do so. Much like others have stated I have seen a dramatic difference in my finances. But it doesn’t stop there. Being blessed in my opinion has very little to do with an abundance of money but more to do with spiritual growth. As my tithes and offerings have increased, so has my spiritual maturity. And really spiritual maturity is all that we should seek. Money comes and goes. In a world where the almighty dollar is more important than the Almighty God, I place my total and complete faith in God concerning my finances. I do that by giving him at least 10 percent just like it states in the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a blue print from which to build your foundation. Because I have a new builder, doesn’t mean I should throw out my blueprint. At the end of the day, it still gives me great direction.


1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.1 Cor 16:1-2

23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-- mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-- justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.Matt 23:23

Now you speaking a word. That's how I feel. I am compelled. It's just what I have to do. It's what I am called to do. It's hard to explain it. But, it's really not a choice.

Yes, in the past I have felt guilty when I spent all of God's money up on making sure I look good or I have the nice things in life, but have neglected my duty as an ambassador of Christ. That's where my guilt comes from. I can't even call it guilt, but the Holy Spirit be on a sistah..like uh uh I'm not having it.

 

[Southernbella.]

Shimmie, there was a time that I couldn't tithe with finances, but I gave myself and my talents as a tithe within the body. Some people don't even attend church or tithe, yet they say that what a tither do with their money is wrong.

Even if we change the word "tithe" and say we give a 10th, it will still be a problem.

You can tithe your time and talent outside of the church, but within the body. In fact, that's one of the things we are called to do!

 

[jturner7156]

Now you speaking a word. That's how I feel. I am compelled. It's just what I have to do. It's what I am called to do. It's hard to explain it. But, it's really not a choice.

Yes, in the past I have felt guilty when I spent all of God's money up on making sure I look good or I have the nice things in life, but have neglected my duty as an ambassador of Christ. That's where my guilt comes from. I can't even call it guilt, but the Holy Spirit be on a sistah..like uh uh I'm not having it.

I have experienced this exact feeling. This whole thread surprises me because I didn't think there were no means for negotiation when it came to tithes (or that's what I had to learn the HARD WAY) but I will say this, the non-believers may not want to be exposed to all of this information about paying tithes b/c they will began to feel the effects of sitting in church every sunday and not trusting God enough to give his house 10% of their income (crooked pastor or not...this is between you and God).

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie, there was a time that I couldn't tithe with finances, but I gave myself and my talents as a tithe within the body. Some people don't even attend church or tithe, yet they say that what a tither do with their money is wrong.

Even if we change the word "tithe" and say we give a 10th, it will still be a problem.

Precious Wavy, I've been there. I was in Church not just to sit and 'eat up the word', but I was there in the ministry of helps doing all that I could to be a blessing in the House of the Lord. Too many think that they are actually doing God a favor just by getting up and walking through the Church doors and sitting in the Pews.

They peel off their 'onenth' (1/10th of the Tithe); leave Church and go out to the Golden Coral, Red Lobster, IHop, spend a fortune, go to a movie, Blockbuster..........Ummmm, shop at Target, Walmart, Marshalls, whatever.

NOTE: Everyone is entitled to enjoy a meal after "Church", I personally hate having to rush home and cook dinner. But I'm making a point. If we truly support our home Church, we're not going to be stingy in doing so.

Too many times, I've given my 'last' and God blessed me so much, in ways that I couldn't imagine doing myself. I have so many testimonies of how He delivered me from so much shame.

If anything, Tithe just to show God how much He is appreciated. What we do with our money, tells us who we are. Our money is our Definer! Where we spend it, defines our priorities in life.

Again, I'm not speaking of anyone who is truly having challenges or simply does not have it. I was there and I know. I'm speaking of those who don't see the importance of the work of the Ministry being supported. God honors faithfulness to those who do see this.

Maintaining a ministry is not free... The Gospel.. God's Word is Free, but the work of the ministry, which includes a decent salary for the ministers is not free. Pastors don't just preach for the sake of preaching. They have to stay in prayer to be lead of the Lord each and every single day of their lives. It's entails much sacrifice and it's a call which does not allow for a job outside of the Church. Although many, many Pastors have outside jobs, (mine does), it's extremely sacrificial. For many are working to make up the financial difference to keep the Church running.

The Laborer is worthy of his hire. The word of God says we are not to muzzle an ox, but to allow it to eat freely of the brush (foliage) upon the ground that it's plowing. Pastors are to be rightly commensated for the work that they do.

The 'fools' in the media, have made it look as if all Pastors are fleecing the sheep, when in truth, its many of the sheep fleecing the Pastors. Pastors who give up their lives, just so they can answer to every beck and call of the congregation who thinks Pastor 'owes' them something.

But it works both ways, here. God designed a support system for all to benefit, but all have to cooperate.

My 'friend' gets ticked off when ppl do not face the reality of their decisons. He tells me this all the time, that people do not want to feel convicted of their sins; or to feel badly about the choices they've made, even when they know it's against 'God's will. They will use scripture to bow out of what's being called sin or rebellion. He shared that a person should just 'do it' but leave God out of it.

My gentle question to those who offer, "Who's picking up your slack?" How much are you contributing to keep the Church heat on to keep you in a warm comfortable seat. How many tithers and how many times has Pastor picked up your slack while you held back, that which you could have given as your fair share.

Nothing we utilize in this world is free. Nothing. Everything has a price to it, which is why God will honor one faithful to His works.

I'm not even a Pastor, yet I know what they go though. The demands, the trials, the ungratefullness. It's sad. Really sad.

Note: All of the above was spoken with the deepest of love. :heart2:

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Precious Wavy, I've been there. I was in Church not just to sit and 'eat up the word', but I was there in the ministry of helps doing all that I could to be a blessing in the House of the Lord. Too many think that they are actually doing God a favor just by getting up and walking through the Church doors and sitting in the Pews.

They peel off their 'onenth' (1/10th of the Tithe); leave Church and go out to the Golden Coral, Red Lobster, IHop, spend a fortune, go to a movie, Blockbuster..........Ummmm, shop at Target, Walmart, Marshalls, whatever.

NOTE: Everyone is entitled to enjoy a meal after "Church", I personally hate having to rush home and cook dinner. But I'm making a point. If we truly support our home Church, we're not going to be stingy in doing so.

Too many times, I've given my 'last' and God blessed me so much, in ways that I couldn't imagine doing myself. I have so many testimonies of how He delivered me from so much shame.

If anything, Tithe just to show God how much He is appreciated. What we do with our money, tells us who we are. Our money is our Definer! Where we spend it, defines our priorities in life.

Again, I'm not speaking of anyone who is truly having challenges or simply does not have it. I was there and I know. I'm speaking of those who don't see the importance of the work of the Ministry being supported. God honors faithfulness to those who do see this.

Maintaining a ministry is not free... The Gospel.. God's Word is Free, but the work of the ministry, which includes a decent salary for the ministers is not free. Pastors don't just preach for the sake of preaching. They have to stay in prayer to be lead of the Lord each and every single day of their lives. It's entails much sacrifice and it's a call which does not allow for a job outside of the Church. Although many, many Pastors have outside jobs, (mine does), it's extremely sacrificial. For many are working to make up the financial difference to keep the Church running.

The Laborer is worthy of his hire. The word of God says we are not to muzzle an ox, but to allow it to eat freely of the brush (foliage) upon the ground that it's plowing. Pastors are to be rightly commensated for the work that they do.

The 'fools' in the media, have made it look as if all Pastors are fleecing the sheep, when in truth, its many of the sheep fleecing the Pastors. Pastors who give up their lives, just so they can answer to every beck and call of the congregation who thinks Pastor 'owes' them something.

But it works both ways, here. God designed a support system for all to benefit, but all have to cooperate.

My 'friend' gets ticked off when ppl do not face the reality of their decisons. He tells me this all the time, that people do not want to feel convicted of their sins; or to feel badly about the choices they've made, even when they know it's against 'God's will. They will use scripture to bow out of what's being called sin or rebellion. He shared that a person should just 'do it' but leave God out of it.

My gentle question to those who offer, "Who's picking up your slack?" How much are you contributing to keep the Church heat on to keep you in a warm comfortable seat. How many tithers and how many times has Pastor picked up your slack while you held back, that which you could have given as your fair share.

Nothing we utilize in this world is free. Nothing. Everything has a price to it, which is why God will honor one faithful to His works.

I'm not even a Pastor, yet I know what they go though. The demands, the trials, the ungratefullness. It's sad. Really sad.

Note: All of the above was spoken with the deepest of love. :heart2:

Thank you, Shimmie for understanding the role of the Pastor.

Although my husband and I have yet to have our own ministry in a building, our ministry consists mostly of married couples who are having difficulty in their marriage, and are trying to make it better. We are worn out during those times of trial between couples, I mean we literally have to get up in the middle of the night sometimes and go to their home, when others are farting (I had to add that) and rolling over in their beds, we are up doing what we need to do to help others...it's not an easy job, but when you are called, you do what you must.

We don't ask for anything....not an offering or anything at anytime when we are doing the workshops. Yet, they give to us and bless us continually...buying gifts, giving money...etc. This is what is on their hearts and we receive it with a heart of gratitude and humbly express our deepest thanks.

We in turn, give back...to those we know have a need. But, we also use it for our own personal things as well. It's a gift to us and we accept it as such.

I give to my pastor too because he is deserving of it. He works about 75-80 a week for the congregation and he should have what he needs.

No one is ever forced to give in where I attend church...we want to give and it shows.

God is good!

 

[Shimmie]

Thank you, Shimmie for understanding the role of the Pastor.

Although my husband and I have yet to have our own ministry in a building, our ministry consists mostly of married couples who are having difficulty in their marriage, and are trying to make it better. We are worn out during those times of trial between couples, I mean we literally have to get up in the middle of the night sometimes and go to their home, when others are farting (I had to add that) and rolling over in their beds, we are up doing what we need to do to help others...it's not an easy job, but when you are called, you do what you must.

We don't ask for anything....not an offering or anything at anytime when we are doing the workshops. Yet, they give to us and bless us continually...buying gifts, giving money...etc. This is what is on their hearts and we receive it with a heart of gratitude and humbly express our deepest thanks.

We in turn, give back...to those we know have a need. But, we also use it for our own personal things as well. It's a gift to us and we accept it as such.

I give to my pastor too because he is deserving of it. He works about 75-80 a week for the congregation and he should have what he needs.

No one is ever forced to give in where I attend church...we want to give and it shows.

God is good!

I KNOW it's a 'pull' upon your life and energies. It's work and not easy work. It's a joy and an honor to be a Pastor, Minister, but it's work.

With all of our hearts, no one is being 'attacked' for the choices they've made to Tithe or not to Tithe. But when I saw it mentioned in a post above that the Gospel is Free, it had to be corrected. For even the Bible from which the Gospel is ministered, was paid for by someone.

What bothers me is that 'we' will pay out our monies to merchants and companies every single day who could care less about us and continue to make them rich (such as household items, credit card interest, shifty car dealers, dirty restaurants (you know what happens in restaurants), and yet not give God our best to keep the work of His going.

 

[alexstin]

The widow isn't recognized because she gave only 2 coins she is recognized because she gave all that she had and by doing so honored God more than those who put in money out of their surplus.

Sometimes people give when it "hurts". Giving when it stretches you financially is not a bad thing.[/quote]

@ the bolded. Girl, I surely do know about this for sure

Me too! I can say like Paul, that I can be content with little or much.

And oops I should have said about the widow:doing so honored God just as much as those who put in money out of their surplus instead of saying she honored God more.

 

[PaperClip]

Now you speaking a word. That's how I feel. I am compelled. It's just what I have to do. It's what I am called to do. It's hard to explain it. But, it's really not a choice.

Yes, in the past I have felt guilty when I spent all of God's money up on making sure I look good or I have the nice things in life, but have neglected my duty as an ambassador of Christ. That's where my guilt comes from. I can't even call it guilt, but the Holy Spirit be on a sistah..like uh uh I'm not having it.

That's called being CONVICTED. That's a good thing. Rather have conviction than judgement!

 

[TrustMeLove]

That's called being CONVICTED. That's a good thing. Rather have conviction than judgement!

Thank you for that word. I couldn't even think of what I was trying to say. Convicted. Yes. And girl that Holy Spirit Be At work with the conviction. Lol I can't believe I couldn't remember that word. But, that the Lord for the Holy Spirit it has sat on me times I didn't want to act right. Times when I could have lost it all in one comment or in one action when I wanted to act out and the Holy Spirit has just set on me to keep me on the right track.

 

[Shimmie]

Thank you for that word. I couldn't even think of what I was trying to say. Convicted. Yes. And girl that Holy Spirit Be At work with the conviction. Lol I can't believe I couldn't remember that word. But, that the Lord for the Holy Spirit it has sat on me times I didn't want to act right. Times when I could have lost it all in one comment or in one action when I wanted to act out and the Holy Spirit has just set on me to keep me on the right track.

You're a doll baby...You even gave Jesus a "Birthday Party"

 

[Mahalialee4]

It's not a point of comparison between the two. Every believer has free will to give. Every believer has free will to tithe. What might be thought-provoking for those who have yet to tithe is the witness and testimony from the Bible and from tithers in this thread that there comes a...oh, help me out here tithers... a covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ...a deeper form of worship unto the Lord....

Think about it this way: Everybody can praise the Lord. But only BELIEVERS can WORSHIP the Lord. Why? Because there's a different form of relationship that happens between "real" believers and everybody else. So it is the distinction between "freewill giving" and tithing.

Freewill giving = praise; tithing = worship.

I trust that because someone "questions church doctrines" they are not automatically considered to be "persons who have never tithed, "...not "believers", "not in a right relationship with God" but just "everybody else". It is interesting how you break down free will offering and tithing, which implies free will givers only praise God and do not worship Him. So are you implying....when "free will" giving is done NOT under compulsion, but JUST AS EACH HAS DETERMINED IN THEIR HEART...out of humility, thankfulness, fully recognizing that all their blessings come from God, and joyfully relish their relationship with Him, and to further the interests of the Kingdom of God, giving what HE has laid on their heart as to where and to whom,... unless they give the pastor a regulated 10 per cent to the "pastor's church, they are not worshipping God and He is not satisfied with them? Very interesting. That is how I understood your statements. Is this what you were directly or indirectly conveying. Do you assume that about me, since I am sure you have read my posts re: tithing. I would not want to assume. Please clarify.

 

[PaperClip]

I trust that because someone "questions church doctrines" they are not automatically considered to be "persons who have never tithed, "...not "believers", "not in a right relationship with God" but just "everybody else". It is interesting how you break down free will offering and tithing, which implies free will givers only praise God and do not worship Him. So are you implying....when "free will" giving is done NOT under compulsion, but JUST AS EACH HAS DETERMINED IN THEIR HEART...out of humility, thankfulness, fully recognizing that all their blessings come from God, and joyfully relish their relationship with Him, and to further the interests of the Kingdom of God, giving what HE has laid on their heart as to where and to whom,... unless they give the pastor a regulated 10 per cent to the "pastor's church, they are not worshipping God and He is not satisfied with them? Very interesting. That is how I understood your statements. Is this what you were directly or indirectly conveying. Do you assume that about me, since I am sure you have read my posts re: tithing. I would not want to assume. Please clarify.

Honey, I have not read your posts so carefully as to single you out. In the last week, I have read and posted in a number of threads on tithing and so there's a lot of criss-cross going on. I graciously encourage you to read through this entire thread to get some insight about my humble points regarding tithing. I direct you this way not to dismiss your inquiries, but to sincerely share that from what you ask here, I have addressed at some point in an earlier post. However, I do welcome your questions or any request for clarifications after your perusal of this thread.

Peace....

 

[Mahalialee4]

tithing seems to be the only hot topic on this forum.

my two cents....

tithing is really more about acknowledging that what you have belongs to God. just like praying is acknowledging that God is present. both acts are really about humbling yourself and acknowledging God.

whether the pastor uses the money for planes, etc. or other corrupt purposes is not going to help the non-tither. i have not heard of one person getting rich because they kept their money instead of tithing. did people go broke tithing? no. those people were broke before they threw two nickels in the plate.

a lot of rumors spread about churches and pastors. it is time that Christians stop enabling gossipers to destroy the Church.

Do you think the facts about " the stupendous salaries, not to mention the monies taken in free will offerings and the lavish life styles" that even the covetous world is publishing, not to mention many pastors are condemning" should just be hushed up because it is "gossip"? My other question: Why when serious mess is going on in the world, many Christians are the first to denounce it! When it happens with the Church it is "gossip!" In reference to "rumors", do you consider questioning questionable doctrines as taught in "Christian" churches to fit into that category? I am not sure in which context that liner "Christians enabling gossipers to destroy the church" came from. I guess that is another topic or if "gross misconduct and questionable stewardship of the finances" is going on in churches that are demanding a ritual tithe and Christians address it, do you consider them enabling gossipers. If the church is being destroyed by greed, immorality, and false representation of Jesus Christ, are you saying that "If no one talked about what is going on...it would not have happened or be happening?" Note: I am not referring to "rumors " that are false, but accounts that are "true". I think that the accountability of those who are "creating the scandals" needs to be addressed on this issue. It was certainly handled that way in the Scriptures..."rebuked before all onlookers!" ...remove the wicked man from among yourselves!"...that would hardly be a secret, right?

 

[PaperClip]

Came across this link just now:

http://www.willowspringchurch.org/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=4190&sec_id=2834

What Does The Bible Say About...

Tithes and Offerings?

In the Bible we find that God clearly outlines for us what it means to be good stewards of our resources. Colossians 1:18 states that Jesus wants to come to have, 1st place in every area of our lives, and this includes our finances.
What is a “tithe?” Literally, a tithe means, “one tenth.”

“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse...and test Me now
in this, says the Lord of Hosts…” -Malachi 3:10


​

Throughout the Bible, God tells us that we are to give Him one tenth of our income (Genesis 28:22; Malachi 3:10; Matthew 23:23; Hebrews 7:2; etc.). Is there a difference between a “tithe, and an “offering?” Yes, there clearly is. In addition to tithing, the Bible mentions offerings such as, “freewill offerings,” “personal contributions,” and “sacrificial giving” as other means by which we can worship the Lord (see Deuteronomy 12:17; Mark 12:42). The difference between tithes and offerings is that offerings are intended to be a personal, private (see Matthew 6:1), transaction between the giver and the Lord, according to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. In contrast, the tithe is not optional. Jesus said, “You should tithe” (see Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42). God said,

“Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce
so that your barns may be filled with plenty, and your vats overflowing…” -Proverbs 3:9-10


​

Why should I give tithes and offerings, and why is tithing not considered optional?
The first reason is, JESUS SAID WE SHOULD! (see Matthew 23:23). The second and most practical reason might best be described by another question: “Do you want your finances under the authority of the “Devourer,” or the “Abundant giver?” (see Malachi 3:10-11).

You see, the Bible clearly teaches that if you “bring the WHOLE tithe to the Lord, He will, “rebuke the devourer!” Further, the Bible says that as a result of honoring the Lord with our finances, “...my God shall supply all of your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” (see Philippians 4:19). However, if we don’t honor the Lord with our finances then we give authority over to the devourer, who then has permission to destroy and steal from us (see John 10:10).

Is God really so concerned about your money?
|No, He’s concerned about your heart.

“...For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”
-see Matthew 6:19-21


​

But I thought that, “tithing” only applied to Old Testament giving?
As we have seen, this is not the case. Tithing is specifically mentioned three times in the New Testament.(Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; Hebrews 7:2). Additionally, Jesus specifically affirmed tithing as something that should be done. Beyond that, Colossians 1:18 challenges us to place Jesus FIRST, above all else, in EVERYTHING that we do. Romans 15:4 tells us that the Old Testament was written for our instruction. Jesus told us that He did not come to take away the Law or the prophets, but to fulfill (see Matthew 5:17-20). Jesus brought clarification, correction and adjustment to many things… but not to tithing.

How can I assure God’s abundant blessing for me and my family?
#1. God says, “Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce” (Proverbs 3:9). A big question among Christians today is whether or not we should tithe based on our gross or net income. Well, according to the Bible, God is to be honored first, even ahead of the government. This means we tithe on our gross income.
#2. God says, “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse” (see Malachi 3:9). To assure God’s abundant blessing in the area of finances we must bring the WHOLE tithe. Not 9%, not a tithe on the net income...but the WHOLE tithe. In reference to this Nehemiah further states, “The first fruits of all the fruit of every tree to the house of the Lord” (see Nehemiah 10:35). This means that we tithe on ALL income that we receive. This includes not only the money which we make on our jobs, but things such as inheritances, alimony checks, honorariums, financial gifts and profits made from such things as stocks and the sales of our homes and property. Tithing on all income literally means that we tithe on all that comes in!

“Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully
Shall also reap bountifully, for God loves a CHEERFUL GIVER.” -2 Corinthians 9:7-8


​

Where do I give my tithes?
You should present your tithes to wherever your, “storehouse,” is. Whatever you consider to be, “The house of the Lord.”(see Nehemiah 10:35). For most, this will be the local church in which they worship. However, It cannot be definitively concluded that tithes must solely go to the local church. What we do know for sure is that the, “tithe” is the vehicle that God has chosen by which to support his, “priests,” those whom God has chosen to, “labor in the word” as an occupation. When Paul said, “The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14), he was commenting on the way in which the Levitical priesthood was sustained. 1 Corinthians 9:9 is a quotation from Deuteronomy 25:4, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” Paul also used Deuteronomy 25:4 in support of his claim that they who labor in the word are worthy of, “double honor” (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Perhaps most significantly is, “How” you give the tithe. It is to be presented as, “unto the Lord” with no strings attached, expecting no tangible benefit.

Where do I give my offerings?
Wherever the Lord directs you to give. This is between you and the Lord, and the individual, church or organization to which you contribute.
“Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit that
that increases to your account.” -Philippians 4:19

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Came across this link just now:

http://www.willowspringchurch.org/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=4190&sec_id=2834

What Does The Bible Say About...

Tithes and Offerings?

In the Bible we find that God clearly outlines for us what it means to be good stewards of our resources. Colossians 1:18 states that Jesus wants to come to have, 1st place in every area of our lives, and this includes our finances.
What is a “tithe?” Literally, a tithe means, “one tenth.”

“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse...and test Me now​

in this, says the Lord of Hosts…” -Malachi 3:10​

Throughout the Bible, God tells us that we are to give Him one tenth of our income (Genesis 28:22; Malachi 3:10; Matthew 23:23; Hebrews 7:2; etc.). Is there a difference between a “tithe, and an “offering?” Yes, there clearly is. In addition to tithing, the Bible mentions offerings such as, “freewill offerings,” “personal contributions,” and “sacrificial giving” as other means by which we can worship the Lord (see Deuteronomy 12:17; Mark 12:42). The difference between tithes and offerings is that offerings are intended to be a personal, private (see Matthew 6:1), transaction between the giver and the Lord, according to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. In contrast, the tithe is not optional. Jesus said, “You should tithe” (see Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42). God said,

“Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce​

so that your barns may be filled with plenty, and your vats overflowing…” -Proverbs 3:9-10​

Why should I give tithes and offerings, and why is tithing not considered optional?
The first reason is, JESUS SAID WE SHOULD! (see Matthew 23:23). The second and most practical reason might best be described by another question: “Do you want your finances under the authority of the “Devourer,” or the “Abundant giver?” (see Malachi 3:10-11).

You see, the Bible clearly teaches that if you “bring the WHOLE tithe to the Lord, He will, “rebuke the devourer!” Further, the Bible says that as a result of honoring the Lord with our finances, “...my God shall supply all of your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” (see Philippians 4:19). However, if we don’t honor the Lord with our finances then we give authority over to the devourer, who then has permission to destroy and steal from us (see John 10:10).

Is God really so concerned about your money?
|No, He’s concerned about your heart.

“...For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”​

-see Matthew 6:19-21​

But I thought that, “tithing” only applied to Old Testament giving?
As we have seen, this is not the case. Tithing is specifically mentioned three times in the New Testament.(Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; Hebrews 7:2). Additionally, Jesus specifically affirmed tithing as something that should be done. Beyond that, Colossians 1:18 challenges us to place Jesus FIRST, above all else, in EVERYTHING that we do. Romans 15:4 tells us that the Old Testament was written for our instruction. Jesus told us that He did not come to take away the Law or the prophets, but to fulfill (see Matthew 5:17-20). Jesus brought clarification, correction and adjustment to many things… but not to tithing.

How can I assure God’s abundant blessing for me and my family?
#1. God says, “Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce” (Proverbs 3:9). A big question among Christians today is whether or not we should tithe based on our gross or net income. Well, according to the Bible, God is to be honored first, even ahead of the government. This means we tithe on our gross income.
#2. God says, “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse” (see Malachi 3:9). To assure God’s abundant blessing in the area of finances we must bring the WHOLE tithe. Not 9%, not a tithe on the net income...but the WHOLE tithe. In reference to this Nehemiah further states, “The first fruits of all the fruit of every tree to the house of the Lord” (see Nehemiah 10:35). This means that we tithe on ALL income that we receive. This includes not only the money which we make on our jobs, but things such as inheritances, alimony checks, honorariums, financial gifts and profits made from such things as stocks and the sales of our homes and property. Tithing on all income literally means that we tithe on all that comes in!

“Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully​

Shall also reap bountifully, for God loves a CHEERFUL GIVER.” -2 Corinthians 9:7-8​

Where do I give my tithes?
You should present your tithes to wherever your, “storehouse,” is. Whatever you consider to be, “The house of the Lord.”(see Nehemiah 10:35). For most, this will be the local church in which they worship. However, It cannot be definitively concluded that tithes must solely go to the local church. What we do know for sure is that the, “tithe” is the vehicle that God has chosen by which to support his, “priests,” those whom God has chosen to, “labor in the word” as an occupation. When Paul said, “The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14), he was commenting on the way in which the Levitical priesthood was sustained. 1 Corinthians 9:9 is a quotation from Deuteronomy 25:4, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” Paul also used Deuteronomy 25:4 in support of his claim that they who labor in the word are worthy of, “double honor” (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Perhaps most significantly is, “How” you give the tithe. It is to be presented as, “unto the Lord” with no strings attached, expecting no tangible benefit.

Where do I give my offerings?
Wherever the Lord directs you to give. This is between you and the Lord, and the individual, church or organization to which you contribute.
“Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit that
that increases to your account.” -Philippians 4:19

Thank you, RR....this clarified some things for me that had nothing to do with tithing.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Honey, I have not read your posts so carefully as to single you out. In the last week, I have read and posted in a number of threads on tithing and so there's a lot of criss-cross going on. I graciously encourage you to read through this entire thread to get some insight about my humble points regarding tithing. I direct you this way not to dismiss your inquiries, but to sincerely share that from what you ask here, I have addressed at some point in an earlier post. However, I do welcome your questions or any request for clarifications after your perusal of this thread.

Peace....

Originally Posted by Mahalialee4
I trust that because someone "questions church doctrines" they are not automatically considered to be "persons who have never tithed, "...not "believers", "not in a right relationship with God" but just "everybody else". It is interesting how you break down free will offering and tithing, which implies free will givers only praise God and do not worship Him. So are you implying....when "free will" giving is done NOT under compulsion, but JUST AS EACH HAS DETERMINED IN THEIR HEART...out of humility, thankfulness, fully recognizing that all their blessings come from God, and joyfully relish their relationship with Him, and to further the interests of the Kingdom of God, giving what HE has laid on their heart as to where and to whom,... unless they give the pastor a regulated 10 per cent to the "pastor's church, they are not worshipping God and He is not satisfied with them? Very interesting. That is how I understood your statements. Is this what you were directly or indirectly conveying. Do you assume that about me, since I am sure you have read my posts re: tithing. I would not want to assume. Please clarify.

I have been following the threads carefully as I consider this to be a topic of concern to me and many other believers who have tithed, or not tithed according to the ritualistic 10 percent tithing as practiced in many churches and are in good deep covenant relationship with God and are being blessed . My clarification that I wanted from you is directly regarding your quote: which I have posted below: Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxerRehab
It's not a point of comparison between the two. Every believer has free will to give. Every believer has free will to tithe. What might be thought-provoking for those who have yet to tithe is the witness and testimony from the Bible and from tithers in this thread that there comes a...oh, help me out here tithers... a covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ...a deeper form of worship unto the Lord....

Think about it this way: Everybody can praise the Lord. But only BELIEVERS can WORSHIP the Lord. Why? Because there's a different form of relationship that happens between "real" believers and everybody else. So it is the distinction between "freewill giving" and tithing.

Freewill giving = praise; tithing = worship

I personally do not confuse believing in God, serving God, worshipping God, having fellowship with God and other believers with going to a church building and putting in a monthly tithe and being on a church building membership role (that being for the sole purpose that that pastor's "ministry" can claim tax exemption on the money given) I believe that the body of believers are the Church. I also believe that every doctrine taught by the churches needs to thoroughly pass the scrutiny of believers through the eyes of the Scriptures and with the direction of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, we can fall into error and tradition without being aware of it, just as the Israelites and Pharisees did. When we are taught things we need to be like the Beroeans who were examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things we are taught are true. Thank you for taking the time to answer and I appreciate your comments.

 

[TrustMeLove]

Came across this link just now:

http://www.willowspringchurch.org/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=4190&sec_id=2834

What Does The Bible Say About...

Tithes and Offerings?

In the Bible we find that God clearly outlines for us what it means to be good stewards of our resources. Colossians 1:18 states that Jesus wants to come to have, 1st place in every area of our lives, and this includes our finances.
What is a “tithe?” Literally, a tithe means, “one tenth.”

“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse...and test Me now
in this, says the Lord of Hosts…” -Malachi 3:10


​

Throughout the Bible, God tells us that we are to give Him one tenth of our income (Genesis 28:22; Malachi 3:10; Matthew 23:23; Hebrews 7:2; etc.). Is there a difference between a “tithe, and an “offering?” Yes, there clearly is. In addition to tithing, the Bible mentions offerings such as, “freewill offerings,” “personal contributions,” and “sacrificial giving” as other means by which we can worship the Lord (see Deuteronomy 12:17; Mark 12:42). The difference between tithes and offerings is that offerings are intended to be a personal, private (see Matthew 6:1), transaction between the giver and the Lord, according to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. In contrast, the tithe is not optional. Jesus said, “You should tithe” (see Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42). God said,

“Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce
so that your barns may be filled with plenty, and your vats overflowing…” -Proverbs 3:9-10


​

Why should I give tithes and offerings, and why is tithing not considered optional?
The first reason is, JESUS SAID WE SHOULD! (see Matthew 23:23). The second and most practical reason might best be described by another question: “Do you want your finances under the authority of the “Devourer,” or the “Abundant giver?” (see Malachi 3:10-11).

You see, the Bible clearly teaches that if you “bring the WHOLE tithe to the Lord, He will, “rebuke the devourer!” Further, the Bible says that as a result of honoring the Lord with our finances, “...my God shall supply all of your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” (see Philippians 4:19). However, if we don’t honor the Lord with our finances then we give authority over to the devourer, who then has permission to destroy and steal from us (see John 10:10).

Is God really so concerned about your money?
|No, He’s concerned about your heart.

“...For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”
-see Matthew 6:19-21


​

But I thought that, “tithing” only applied to Old Testament giving?
As we have seen, this is not the case. Tithing is specifically mentioned three times in the New Testament.(Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; Hebrews 7:2). Additionally, Jesus specifically affirmed tithing as something that should be done. Beyond that, Colossians 1:18 challenges us to place Jesus FIRST, above all else, in EVERYTHING that we do. Romans 15:4 tells us that the Old Testament was written for our instruction. Jesus told us that He did not come to take away the Law or the prophets, but to fulfill (see Matthew 5:17-20). Jesus brought clarification, correction and adjustment to many things… but not to tithing.

How can I assure God’s abundant blessing for me and my family?
#1. God says, “Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce” (Proverbs 3:9). A big question among Christians today is whether or not we should tithe based on our gross or net income. Well, according to the Bible, God is to be honored first, even ahead of the government. This means we tithe on our gross income.
#2. God says, “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse” (see Malachi 3:9). To assure God’s abundant blessing in the area of finances we must bring the WHOLE tithe. Not 9%, not a tithe on the net income...but the WHOLE tithe. In reference to this Nehemiah further states, “The first fruits of all the fruit of every tree to the house of the Lord” (see Nehemiah 10:35). This means that we tithe on ALL income that we receive. This includes not only the money which we make on our jobs, but things such as inheritances, alimony checks, honorariums, financial gifts and profits made from such things as stocks and the sales of our homes and property. Tithing on all income literally means that we tithe on all that comes in!

“Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully
Shall also reap bountifully, for God loves a CHEERFUL GIVER.” -2 Corinthians 9:7-8


​

Where do I give my tithes?
You should present your tithes to wherever your, “storehouse,” is. Whatever you consider to be, “The house of the Lord.”(see Nehemiah 10:35). For most, this will be the local church in which they worship. However, It cannot be definitively concluded that tithes must solely go to the local church. What we do know for sure is that the, “tithe” is the vehicle that God has chosen by which to support his, “priests,” those whom God has chosen to, “labor in the word” as an occupation. When Paul said, “The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14), he was commenting on the way in which the Levitical priesthood was sustained. 1 Corinthians 9:9 is a quotation from Deuteronomy 25:4, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” Paul also used Deuteronomy 25:4 in support of his claim that they who labor in the word are worthy of, “double honor” (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Perhaps most significantly is, “How” you give the tithe. It is to be presented as, “unto the Lord” with no strings attached, expecting no tangible benefit.

Where do I give my offerings?
Wherever the Lord directs you to give. This is between you and the Lord, and the individual, church or organization to which you contribute.
“Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit that
that increases to your account.” -Philippians 4:19

Thank you. This put some solid scripture behind things that I naturally felt, but couldn't explain in my own words effectively. Especially about the tithe not being optional and being something sooo very personal. Not the same as just giving to a good cause.

 

[PaperClip]

Originally Posted by Mahalialee4
I trust that because someone "questions church doctrines" they are not automatically considered to be "persons who have never tithed, "...not "believers", "not in a right relationship with God" but just "everybody else". It is interesting how you break down free will offering and tithing, which implies free will givers only praise God and do not worship Him. So are you implying....when "free will" giving is done NOT under compulsion, but JUST AS EACH HAS DETERMINED IN THEIR HEART...out of humility, thankfulness, fully recognizing that all their blessings come from God, and joyfully relish their relationship with Him, and to further the interests of the Kingdom of God, giving what HE has laid on their heart as to where and to whom,... unless they give the pastor a regulated 10 per cent to the "pastor's church, they are not worshipping God and He is not satisfied with them? Very interesting. That is how I understood your statements. Is this what you were directly or indirectly conveying. Do you assume that about me, since I am sure you have read my posts re: tithing. I would not want to assume. Please clarify.

I have been following the threads carefully as I consider this to be a topic of concern to me and many other believers who have tithed, or not tithed according to the ritualistic 10 percent tithing as practiced in many churches and are in good deep covenant relationship with God and are being blessed . My clarification that I wanted from you is directly regarding your quote: which I have posted below: Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxerRehab
It's not a point of comparison between the two. Every believer has free will to give. Every believer has free will to tithe. What might be thought-provoking for those who have yet to tithe is the witness and testimony from the Bible and from tithers in this thread that there comes a...oh, help me out here tithers... a covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ...a deeper form of worship unto the Lord....

Think about it this way: Everybody can praise the Lord. But only BELIEVERS can WORSHIP the Lord. Why? Because there's a different form of relationship that happens between "real" believers and everybody else. So it is the distinction between "freewill giving" and tithing.

Freewill giving = praise; tithing = worship

I personally do not confuse believing in God, serving God, worshipping God, having fellowship with God and other believers with going to a church building and putting in a monthly tithe and being on a church building membership role (that being for the sole purpose that that pastor's "ministry" can claim tax exemption on the money given) I believe that the body of believers are the Church. I also believe that every doctrine taught by the churches needs to thoroughly pass the scrutiny of believers through the eyes of the Scriptures and with the direction of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, we can fall into error and tradition without being aware of it, just as the Israelites and Pharisees did. When we are taught things we need to be like the Beroeans who were examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things we are taught are true. Thank you for taking the time to answer and I appreciate your comments.

Again, I direct you to review my posts in this thread because I have addressed the statements you have made therein. I am open to responding to specific questions versus being provoked into an ambiguous exchange.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Thank you, RR....this clarified some things for me that had nothing to do with tithing.

Where do I give my tithes?
Quote From Nice and Wavy)You should present your tithes to wherever your, “storehouse,” is. Whatever you consider to be, “The house of the Lord.”(see Nehemiah 10:35). For most, this will be the local church in which they worship. However, It cannot be definitively concluded that tithes must solely go to the local church. What we do know for sure is that the, “tithe” is the vehicle that God has chosen by which to support his, “priests,” those whom God has chosen to, “labor in the word” as an occupation. When Paul said, “The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14), he was commenting on the way in which the Levitical priesthood was sustained. 1 Corinthians 9:9 is a quotation from Deuteronomy 25:4, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” Paul also used Deuteronomy 25:4 in support of his claim that they who labor in the word are worthy of, “double honor” (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Perhaps most significantly is, “How” you give the tithe. It is to be presented as, “unto the Lord” with no strings attached, expecting no tangible benefit.

This is directed to you as a pastor.
I appreciated some of the points you made. I appreciate that it was not pushing the "you have to give to the church at.....address....no if ands or buts. However, I asked in another thread, this question: Is not every believer called as part of the Church to be a "kingdom of kings and priests" according to Scripture"... And if so, how do we have a 2 tiered set up in the Church. I understand about what is referred to as the five fold ministry...but is not every male believer the priest in his home? So are priests paying tithes to priests? Are the pastors being equated to "priests" in the Old Testament and does that make the rest of the body the "laity", like in the Catholic Church? I will look for my post on this and repost it here as I would appreciate hearing your thoughts in this.
"The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14),

Since Pastors have been placed in the body...I recognize that not every pastor is greedy, or misrepresenting Christ or His body. So please do not take my questions or statements personally when I direct them to you. However you can answer from that perspective personally. I appreciate your comments.
...Those who question the tithing taking place probably would not even be concerned except for the extensive abuses and gross mismanagment of stewards that are taking place. It is interesting that Paul chose to get a job and felt that it was necessary for him to preach the gospel whether he got "paid" for it or not. Do you think that there would be less pastors if they did not get a tax free salary and tax free "free will offerings? "Not muzzling" can not be used to justify what is happening in some ministries. And is the muzzle talking about money or shutting up the true Word of God that is to flow. I know that is the commentary link quote, but commentaries are not the inspired Word of God. And if is talking about allowing the ox or the pastor to eat, an ox eats for one, not for 10! If a person sits down to a table and keeps shovelling in the food until it is running out of his mouth and his stomach is hurting is a greedy person and for greedy persons they never get enough! That sight literally would be disgusting and shocking and that is why some question the greed they are observing and question whether some use the Word of God to manipulate people out of excessive amounts of money. I am sure you understand their concerns. Nice to have a pastor posting!
Here are my questions from an earlier post!
I am curious. I am sorry that you felt insulted by being asked if you had read these Scriptures and you specifically felt insulted because of as you stated: "your position as a pastor".
I would like to ask you a question, trusting you will not be offended, about one of the Scriptures that you posted, specifically, Galatians 6:6 and in brackets beside it you have typed (Support Financially those who teach you the word of God). Now to be fair, I am going to check out different translations, but the one I am reading from is a King James Version which reads: "Let him that is taught in the word COMMUNICATE unto him that teacheth in all good things." So I am wondering where money comes into this Scripture specifically. Another King James version reads: "Let him who is taught with the word share in all good things with him who teaches." If this is talking about money and financial (monetary) support, what are your thoughts on Paul choosing to support himself with his own hands rather than burden believers? I understand some pastors do not take a 10 percent tithe or demand it. But so many make it all about getting money and that is the only form of "sharing" that they are interested in receiving. As a pastor, if I came to you and stated my reasons and questioned the 10 per cent obligatory regulated tithing of church members, as practiced by many pastors, how would you feel toward me? How would this be handled in your church? I am hoping that you will not be offended that I did not pm you. I believe pastors are part of the body of Christ, I do not know you on a personal level so hoping that as one member to another I could ask you this as it is about doctrine, and not personal private matters and you publicly posted these Scripures. I would really appreciate an answer from you from your heart and not from your position, as I am not attacking your position. In good faith I ask You these questions on this powerful doctrinal issue because I understand, hopefully correctly, that you are a pastor, right? Finally, if the gift of Salvation and the Word of God is free, why are we being charged to pay money for someone to preach a Free gospel of good news to us? And if some pastors choose to live beyond their means, why should Christians have to pay salary money to be in God's good graces? Do Pastors ( who often state from the pulpit, " I have a word for you this morning from God"...do they receive the Word that they preach on Sundays freely from God or did He charge them? If they receive freely, should they not "share" as the Scriptures say "give freely?" The Free invitation given in Isaiah Chapter 55:1 has always blessed me..."to come buy and eat without money without price.." and Revelation 22: 17..."And the Spirit and the Bride say 'Come'... and let him that heareth say 'Come' ...and let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely". That was the love of God that drew me. What are your thoughts about this, because the blatant emphasis on "money" particularly in the "prosperity and seed teachings" and the sense of entitlement to lavish lifestyles by some has always puzzled me and turned me off.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Mahalialee...I did not quote this below. I assume you want to ask the person who posted it.

Where do I give my tithes?
Quote From Nice and Wavy)You should present your tithes to wherever your, “storehouse,” is. Whatever you consider to be, “The house of the Lord.”(see Nehemiah 10:35). For most, this will be the local church in which they worship. However, It cannot be definitively concluded that tithes must solely go to the local church. What we do know for sure is that the, “tithe” is the vehicle that God has chosen by which to support his, “priests,” those whom God has chosen to, “labor in the word” as an occupation. When Paul said, “The Lord has directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel” (1 Corinthians 9:14), he was commenting on the way in which the Levitical priesthood was sustained. 1 Corinthians 9:9 is a quotation from Deuteronomy 25:4, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” Paul also used Deuteronomy 25:4 in support of his claim that they who labor in the word are worthy of, “double honor” (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Perhaps most significantly is, “How” you give the tithe. It is to be presented as, “unto the Lord” with no strings attached, expecting no tangible benefit.

This is directed to you as a pastor.
I appreciated some of the points you made. I appreciate that it was not pushing the "you have to give to the church at.....address....no if ands or buts. However, I asked in another thread, this question: Is not every believer called as part of the Church to be a "kingdom of kings and priests" according to ScriptureI believe that each Christian is both a king and a priest, a "royal priest". We need to be both because a king has authority, but a priest has access. The Lord has given us, as believers, authority in the earth and access to His Throne. Priests are intercessors who go before God on behalf of a person, a family, a city or a nation. But, does every Christian walk in their priesthood or in their kingship, or do they expect others to do it for them. This is where there are problems within the church because people look at the leadership and say this or that of what they should or should not do, yet they won't take their position as "the kings and priests" and do it themselves.

Our authority is given us as children of the Most High God. We are children of God, and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. So that we have the authority to use the name of Jesus. (I copied and pasted this scripture because I'm too tired to type it out)(John 14:12-14 NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. {13} "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. {14} "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

This is the authority that we have been given to bring people into the Kingdom. (Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. {19} "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, {20} "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

As a priest we have access to the throne of grace. (Hebrews 4:16 NKJV) Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 5:1-4 NKJV) For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. {2} He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness. {3} Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. {4} And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.

So we have access to the control center of the universe, the throne of grace, that we may obtain compassion and find grace to help in time of need. We know that Jesus is the ultimate King and High Priest. (Hebrews 7:24-25 NKJV) But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. {25} Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

And if so, how do we have a 2 tiered set up in the Church. Not everyone can lead. If the church had nothing but leaders in it, who will learn? That's like going to McDonalds and all they sell are Big Mac's. There has to be a variety or people would go nuts....(I know I would....) God has set up in His Church, different levels of ministry to function as needed. Not every man is an island...there are others needed to do the work of the ministry and help others (members) to grow in the Lord and to eventually lead.

Remember the story of Barnabas and Paul regarding John Mark? Paul didn't want to have anything to do with him working in the ministry because he was somewhat of a hothead. Barnabas saw potential. The two of them couldn't agree, so the Holy Spirit seperated the two, and Paul took Silas and Barnabas took John Mark. Later on, we read that John Mark became a great man of God and Paul was pleased with his walk afterall. It took someone like Barnabas to see past the problems and to see the end result. As great as the Apostle Paul was, he didn't see it. And that's ok, because not everyone is perfect in the church...we all are one body and every part supplied is needed for one area or another and that we need each other.

I understand about what is referred to as the five fold ministry...but is not every male believer the priest in his home? As the intercessor of his home, yes...he should be and not leave it to his wife.

So are priests paying tithes to priests? Are the pastors being equated to "priests" in the Old Testament and does that make the rest of the body the "laity", like in the Catholic Church? Remember, Mahalalee, we are not paying our tithes to the "pastors", but to God to further the Kingdom. We are all one body, but we all have different functions within the body. Not everyone is going to do what a pastor does in the church. I remember a time when there was a gentleman in my church who kept saying that the pastors job was easy, and all he had to do was to get up on the pulpit and preach...how hard was that? Well, one day the pastor gave him the opportunity to do the service...and he gave him ample time to prepare. The man knew he had it going on and when the time came, he clammed up and realized that it wasn't as easy of a job as he had originally thought. He said somethings, but it lacked. No one judged him...but it helped him to see and respect the position of the pastor more than he had before. It wasn't just the sermon he had to do...but the entire service he was in charge of and he couldn't get it right.

You have to wonder why...

I'm going to bed now...have a good nite.

 

[Mahalialee4]

The widow isn't recognized because she gave only 2 coins she is recognized because she gave all that she had and by doing so honored God just as much as those who put in money out of their surplus.

Sometimes people give when it "hurts". Giving when it stretches you financially is not a bad thing.

Exactly! And especially as those were some wicked priests!

 

[Mahalialee4]

Mahaliee, here are the answers to your previous questions:

I am curious. I am sorry that you felt insulted by being asked if you had read these Scriptures and you specifically felt insulted because of as you stated: "your position as a pastor". Yes, it was insulting because the person you are referring to, asked if I studied what I wrote...and of course I did. If I said to you in a post..."is that your real hair or did you glue it on." wouldn't you be insulted?

I would like to ask you a question, trusting you will not be offended, about one of the Scriptures that you posted, specifically, Galatians 6:6 and in brackets beside it you have typed (Support Financially those who teach you the word of God). Now to be fair, I am going to check out different translations, but the one I am reading from is a King James Version which reads: "Let him that is taught in the word COMMUNICATE unto him that teacheth in all good things." So I am wondering where money comes into this Scripture specifically. If you read the scripture in Numbers 18:21 it says: " I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting." vs 23 says: "It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come."

And in Galatians 6:6 we read: " Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor."

What does that tell me? It tells me that the pastors/ministers of the church should be supported financially from the people within the body. The pastor is the one who gives instruction in the word, so the "good things" should be finances, as well as help in various areas of the ministry.
The pastor is also the one who deals with offenses that come about within the church as well....shepherding the flock and tending to them.

When people in the church have problems, the pastor is the one who is there with them to help them as much as they are able. Getting up at 2-3-4am in the morning to go to the hospitals; assisting them when they have death in the family, etc. I thank God for my pastor and many others that I know do these things and more.

Another King James version reads: "Let him who is taught with the word share in all good things with him who teaches." If this is talking about money and financial (monetary) support, what are your thoughts on Paul choosing to support himself with his own hands rather than burden believers? I believe that the Apostle Paul didn't hinder the believers to give to him. His desire to support himself is evident, but he also understood the principle of giving...as he too was a giver.

I understand some pastors do not take a 10 percent tithe or demand it. But so many make it all about getting money and that is the only form of "sharing" that they are interested in receiving. As a pastor, if I came to you and stated my reasons and questioned the 10 per cent obligatory regulated tithing of church members, as practiced by many pastors, how would you feel toward me? How would this be handled in your church? As a pastor I understand the principles of giving, that is why I give. Many pastors is not like ALL pastors and shouldn't be linked together this way. If someone demands that people give, I would have a problem with that, but...that is not something I have ever experienced in the last 21 years. There are many people who are not christians and serve other gods, but we don't say that their god is the God of the Bible. We know that there is a difference.

I am hoping that you will not be offended that I did not pm you. I'm not offended in the least.

I believe pastors are part of the body of Christ, I do not know you on a personal level so hoping that as one member to another I could ask you this as it is about doctrine, and not personal private matters and you publicly posted these Scripures. I respect this statement, thank you.

I would really appreciate an answer from you from your heart and not from your position, as I am not attacking your position. Anything I have ever written on this forum is from my heart and because I am a pastor, doesn't mean that I look to people to listen to everything I say. I think its wonderful that there are people who study the word and ask questions if they are not sure, I just ask that they ask with a spirit of love and not to be disrespectful to me in their asking. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask this.

In good faith I ask You these questions on this powerful doctrinal issue because I understand, hopefully correctly, that you are a pastor, right? Finally, if the gift of Salvation and the Word of God is free, why are we being charged to pay money for someone to preach a Free gospel of good news to us? I don't know of anyone who charges admission to get into a church to hear the word. If that is something that you have witnessed, I'm sorry about that. And if some pastors choose to live beyond their means, why should Christians have to pay salary money to be in God's good graces? Sorry, I can't answer that because although I know of pastors that have in abundance, I can't say where they get their money, because I do not know.

Do Pastors ( who often state from the pulpit, " I have a word for you this morning from God"...do they receive the Word that they preach on Sundays freely from God or did He charge them? If they receive freely, should they not "share" as the Scriptures say "give freely?" The Free invitation given in Isaiah Chapter 55:1 has always blessed me..."to come buy and eat without money without price.." and Revelation 22: 17..."And the Spirit and the Bride say 'Come'... and let him that heareth say 'Come' ...and let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely". That was the love of God that drew me. What are your thoughts about this, because the blatant emphasis on "money" particularly in the "prosperity and seed teachings" and the sense of entitlement to lavish lifestyles by some has always puzzled me and turned me off.

The Lord desires for us to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers. As we study the Word of God, we see that there are many references to helping the people in ministry, even as I have stated in a previous post. Yes, salvation is free...but there is a cost to take care of the ministry and that most certainly includes money.

I can't tell you why some people who are pastors/ministers do the things they do. I can't speak for them...so the ones you know, you can ask them and let them give you an answer as to why. I simply don't know.

What I do know is that we all will have to go before the Lord in that day, and then we will know in part. I am just doing what the Lord has told me to do, and I do it with all of my heart.

Thank you for posting.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for responding to every question and I have asked some pastors and they hit the roof even when asked politely. I was not raised in the "church" and I had lots of questions and got "spiritually" beaten for daring to question anything and they were very coldly dismissive. Were it not for my heart longing for God and coming to know Him personally, they would have stumbled me completely. And this from several denominations. I would have appreciated to have gotten the civil, Christian non condescending answer that you gave me today. True pastors (those called and placed by God) I believe are not threatened by questions.
About the charging to hear the Word: That was exactly how I saw it when I would go into a church and before the Word was even given, they were passing the baskets up and down the isles under people's noses to believers and nonbelievers! as well. For some their very first visit to a church and it left a bad taste in many a mouth and it reinforced some deep stereotypes about the Christians and the Pastors. Then later it would be a call for Tithes and Offerings....then the building fund and the Mission fund etc. etc. People came to hear the Word. It would have been better if they had placed a contribution box at the back like the JW's. No bucket, net passing under people's noses.
Thank you.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Mahalialee...I did not quote this below. I assume you want to ask the person who posted it.

Actually, I wanted you to answer. I appreciate your posts. On those specific questions I wanted your thoughts on this especially re: levitical priests...are they saying that's who pastors are today a successor to the priesthood? Being a pastor, you would probably be knowledgeable, rather than ask someone else what a pastor thinks. If you don't mind, then could you comment on my questions rather than the quotes instead. Thank you again.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

The Lord desires for us to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers. As we study the Word of God, we see that there are many references to helping the people in ministry, even as I have stated in a previous post. Yes, salvation is free...but there is a cost to take care of the ministry and that most certainly includes money.

I can't tell you why some people who are pastors/ministers do the things they do. I can't speak for them...so the ones you know, you can ask them and let them give you an answer as to why. I simply don't know.

What I do know is that we all will have to go before the Lord in that day, and then we will know in part. I am just doing what the Lord has told me to do, and I do it with all of my heart.

Thank you for posting.

Thank you for responding to every question and I have asked some pastors and they hit the roof even when asked politely. I was not raised in the "church" and I had lots of questions and got "spiritually" beaten for daring to question anything and they were very coldly dismissive. Were it not for my heart longing for God and coming to know Him personally, they would have stumbled me completely. And this from several denominations.

I would have appreciated to have gotten the civil, Christian non condescending answer that you gave me today[/QUOTE]

. True pastors (those called and placed by God) I believe are not threatened by questions.
About the charging to hear the Word: That was exactly how I saw it when I would go into a church and before the Word was even given, they were passing the baskets up and down the isles under people's noses to believers and nonbelievers! as well. For some their very first visit to a church and it left a bad taste in many a mouth and it reinforced some deep stereotypes about the Christians and the Pastors. Then later it would be a call for Tithes and Offerings....then the building fund and the Mission fund etc. etc. People came to hear the Word. It would have been better if they had placed a contribution box at the back like the JW's. No bucket, net passing under people's noses.
Thank you.

I do appreciate what you said here. It just confirms some things for me. Thank you.

It really sounds to me like you had some real, tough experiences within the churches you have been too. My prayer is that as you continue to grow and trust God's leading in your life, that you would put aside every weight...because it can easily weigh you down. I'm not saying for you to stop asking questions, but I would want you to heal from the hurts of the past, and really move on. Anything I can do to help you in this area, please pm me...I would be more than welcome to help with anything that I am able too.

Blessings to you, Mahalaliee!

 

[Mahalialee4]

Again, I direct you to review my posts in this thread because I have addressed the statements you have made therein. I am open to responding to specific questions versus being provoked into an ambiguous exchange.

Hi. Actually I was not wanting an ambiguous exchange nor should you feel provoked.
I was hoping that you would just give a simple,
" No or Yes I was or was not assuming that it was people who are not believers, worshippers or have not experienced the joy of tithing is why they are raising all these questions and so they do not understand my (your)convictions" kind of answer."

And if you were assuming, I would only have replied that this is not necessarily the case for many who are questioning. No more would need to be exchanged about it. Rather than make an accusation or draw a false assumption as to what your statement meant...I chose to ask. Hope this helps.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Actually, I wanted you to answer. I appreciate your posts. On those specific questions I wanted your thoughts on this especially re: levitical priests...are they saying that's who pastors are today a successor to the priesthood? You should understand that the role of the pastor mirrors somewhat the role of the levitical priests, in that their call is the same...to minister to the people by bringing
God's word and help them as they are needed in their everyday life, which salvation is the main goal. Many are called to the be a pastor, but few are chosen. Not everyone who has a church building is a "Pastor". There are people who have been ordained:Elders, Apostles, Prophets, Deacons who have churches. I know of a church who the husband is the Apostle of the church and his wife is the Pastor and she is the one that handles the pastors responsibilites. There are so many different functions in the church, and it is so needed, especially in these last days.

Being a pastor, you would probably be knowledgeable, rather than ask someone else what a pastor thinks. If you don't mind, then could you comment on my questions rather than the quotes instead. Thank you again.

Although I understand what your statement here is saying, I would'nt say that because I'm a pastor that I'm more knowledgeable then what someone on this forum might think about. There are women on this forum that can move into the office of a pastor right now, because their heart is in the right place, and because I see their fruit. I don't think anyone of us is better than the other, so I wouldn't discount their thoughts or quotes more than I would want anyone to discount mine.

On that note, I will answer your questions the best I can, but I still know that there are women here who can do a better job of answering these questions than I can...and that is the truth, even if it is to know what a pastor may think....

 

[Mahalialee4]

Thank you for responding to every question and I have asked some pastors and they hit the roof even when asked politely. I was not raised in the "church" and I had lots of questions and got "spiritually" beaten for daring to question anything and they were very coldly dismissive. Were it not for my heart longing for God and coming to know Him personally, they would have stumbled me completely. And this from several denominations.

I do appreciate what you said here. It just confirms some things for me. Thank you.

It really sounds to me like you had some real, tough experiences within the churches you have been too. My prayer is that as you continue to grow and trust God's leading in your life, that you would put aside every weight...because it can easily weigh you down. I'm not saying for you to stop asking questions, but I would want you to heal from the hurts of the past, and really move on. Anything I can do to help you in this area, please pm me...I would be more than welcome to help with anything that I am able too.

Blessings to you, Mahalaliee!

Thank you for responding to every question and I have asked some pastors and they hit the roof even when asked politely. I was not raised in the "church" and I had lots of questions and got "spiritually" beaten for daring to question anything and they were very coldly dismissive. Were it not for my heart longing for God and coming to know Him personally, they would have stumbled me completely. And this from several denominations.

I do appreciate what you said here. It just confirms some things for me. Thank you.

It really sounds to me like you had some real, tough experiences within the churches you have been too. My prayer is that as you continue to grow and trust God's leading in your life, that you would put aside every weight...because it can easily weigh you down. I'm not saying for you to stop asking questions, but I would want you to heal from the hurts of the past, and really move on. Anything I can do to help you in this area, please pm me...I would be more than welcome to help with anything that I am able too.

Blessings to you, Mahalaliee!

Thank you. My faith is sound. I just wanted to clarify that many other people have questions and are afraid to ask and move through their Christian life in doubt, uncertainty and unbelief on many things. Many are stumbled and need to be restored. That is why these posts on the "tithing doctrines that are already "out there " in the world for the wrong reasons, (abuse of position and the Word of God) need to be Scripturally examined or clarified, not only for believers but for unbelievers. Those experiences took my eyes off following man. I do believe Ephesians 4:11-15. I was on solid 9 month bed rest carrying my second child when the Holy Spirit began to draw me. Miraculously my baby lived. I used to read my Bible daily for hours during those months and God really became real and ministered to me. I knew nothing about Christianity and so I went looking for answers and experienced those things. It happened. I do not let it affect my belief and trust in God. I have moved on from the experience. But many are being stumbled surrounding this tithing issue today and the Church has to step up to the plate and share, clarify and testify. We overcome by the blood of the lamb and by our testimony!

 

[Mahalialee4]

Although I understand what your statement here is saying, I would'nt say that because I'm a pastor that I'm more knowledgeable then what someone on this forum might think about. There are women on this forum that can move into the office of a pastor right now, because their heart is in the right place, and because I see their fruit. I don't think anyone of us is better than the other, so I wouldn't discount their thoughts or quotes more than I would want anyone to discount mine.

On that note, I will answer your questions the best I can, but I still know that there are women here who can do a better job of answering these questions than I can...and that is the truth, even if it is to know what a pastor may think....

I agree. I have been asking some strong questions and making some strong statements throughout. I do not discount anyone. Nonetheless, it is good to hear your perspective since you already serve in that position.
Your answer: Thank you. I agree. Okay you have satisfied my questions in your answers below. Thank you. Nice talking with you.

((You should understand that the role of the pastor mirrors somewhat the role of the levitical priests, in that their call is the same...to minister to the people by bringing
God's word and help them as they are needed in their everyday life, which salvation is the main goal. Many are called to the be a pastor, but few are chosen. Not everyone who has a church building is a "Pastor". There are people who have been ordained:Elders, Apostles, Prophets, Deacons who have churches. I know of a church who the husband is the Apostle of the church and his wife is the Pastor and she is the one that handles the pastors responsibilites. There are so many different functions in the church, and it is so needed, especially in these last days.))

 

[Mahalialee4]

Now you speaking a word. That's how I feel. I am compelled. It's just what I have to do. It's what I am called to do. It's hard to explain it. But, it's really not a choice.

Yes, in the past I have felt guilty when I spent all of God's money up on making sure I look good or I have the nice things in life, but have neglected my duty as an ambassador of Christ. That's where my guilt comes from. I can't even call it guilt, but the Holy Spirit be on a sistah..like uh uh I'm not having it.

I believe one should be led by the Holy Spirit when it comes to giving and not dictated to for selfish reasons by man. Now that's what I'm talkin bout!