Women Pastors...

[InsertCleverNameHere]

1 Timothy 2:9-15

9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,



_________________________________________________________

So do you guys also follow verse 9 that says no braids, gold, pearls or expensive clothing???

Everybody throw out your designer bags, get off the braid challenge and stop wearing those dangly earrings!

As I said, people choose. I think that for one, you have to understand context before you can get the full meaning of ANY text.

Furthermore, the Bible wasn't written in English, just translated...You would have to learn the original language to get full meaning.

This is why it can be difficult to always assert literal face value meaning. There is so much more involved.

 

[Poohbear]

For the purpose of this thread does Preacher = Pastor? i.e. leader of a church. B/C I consider myself a preacher but NOT a pastor. I have assisted in bible studies and preached the Word to fellow believers

To me, they are not the same...

A pastor is a spiritual overseer of the church.

A preacher is someone who delievers a sermon/message from God.

An evangelist proclaims the gospel/good news of Jesus and the kingdom of God

A teacher is some who provides instruction by experience or something we need to know such as knowing how to do a certain action or the right attitude to have

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

Based on your definitions poohbear, I believe I am a preacher (I've led out in Prayer meeting and delivered the message), an evangelist (I've shared the gospel with non-believers), and a teacher (I teach the youngins' Sabbath School class)

I am not convicted on the idea of women being pastors. We do not ordain women as pastors. I have a friend who just got her masters in theology and boy is she hot on the subject!

To me, they are not the same...

A pastor is a spiritual overseer of the church.

A preacher is someone who delievers a sermon/message from God.

An evangelist proclaims the gospel/good news of Jesus and the kingdom of God

A teacher is some who provides instruction by experience or something we need to know such as knowing how to do a certain action or the right attitude to have

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

Pastor - leader of a church
Preacher - someone we proclaims a message from God to others

What's the difference in your opnion Natalie?

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks for sharing nataliead!

I just believe woman can be teachers over other women and children, and I believe anyone can be an evangelist to anyone. That's it.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

my husband was not a believer, I brought him the message

. If you share the message of Jesus Christ to a male non believer and you teach him how to be a Christian aren't you a teacher too Poohbear?

Thanks for sharing nataliead!

I just believe woman can be teachers over other women and children, and I believe anyone can be an evangelist to anyone. That's it.

 

[Poohbear]

my husband was not a believer, I brought him the message

. If you share the message of Jesus Christ to a male believer and you teach him how to be a Christian aren't you a teacher too Poohbear?

I've never taught a man before. I've only given children sermons on youth Sunday and I teach Sunday School to 5-8 year old children. In your case of your husband who was not a believer at first, you evangelized to him. Evangelizing also involves converting others to Christianity.

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

To Realluvs,

Sorry to hear you feel shut out but you are not. Just being part of worship makes you an important part. The Sabbath, was on the seventh day of the week. It is still the seventh day of the week. That has not changed. But Christ taught us that he is our Sabbath now. In the scriptures it teaches that Christians came together on the first day of the week to worship, give praise and break the bread of Christ because it was the day he rose and then celabrated his rising with them. It became the custom of the christians to meet on that day. They had started to come together daily but if you recall they were not an excepted group and was limited to one day due to their obligations to the Roman authority. So Sunday remained the day for Christians. It was merely a custom started by the first Christians and should not be a source of tension. Many of the ones of Jewish background still celebrated the Sabbath as Christ did.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Thats my point, just because it is tradition, does that make it biblically correct? But either way, somehow I don't think this will matter in the end. As in women preachers, what day you worship on, whether you wear braids or not. But IMO it is a reality that people only take literal the scriptures they want to. We make up holidays, we do this, we do that. I just don't know. Don't know at all.

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

Yes I have done away with the designer bags and the designer hair. Never did the costly clothes. We made our own but I ensured they were pleasing to God and not dictated by the lastest fashion. Many do the same. Why, because it is how the scriptures have spoke to us through the Holy Spirit. Thousand of woman through out history of the faith have been full enriched servants of God as he has commanded. If your church shuts you out then it is in error.

It is not that you disagree with me, you seem to disagree with scripture. 1Tim chapter 3 is clearly speaking of men and not a role for woman.

The scriptures of old and new spoke of people who preached and spread the word. That is for all to do. However the seven chosen to assist the aposltes were men. And the scriptures only speak of men who were ordained or giving the sacraments. Only men in those positions. Not my feelings on the subject but the scriptures teachings. If we refuse the teachings then we are chasing after our own lusts and seeking false teachers to suit our likes.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I don't disagree with you or the scripture, I just have a different interpretation. I do not think they are false teachers. I am not going to even say anymore, me and others have stated that interpretation.

It is not God's church that has shut me out. Oh no I will never be shut from that. It is more the people not a particular church.

I don't think I can respond anymore...people pick and choose and that is just how it is.

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

RealLuvs,

Some things in the bible are just as you say, showing what was the custom started or the reaction to an event. For example, we know that some of the first churches were in private homes. They had been put our of the temple forbidden to celabrate the Lords supper there. When Christians were persecuted they went underground and held services in the catacombs and stables and in secret. Later they were allowed to construct there own places of worship. This is history and customs developing. However some are direct teachings. Christ taught the apostles and commanded that they do as he did. He showed us certain behavior and told us to follow him. These things should not be unclear in your mind. He also chose the apostles. He commanded them to establish his church on earth. If they state how something was to be done or understood then it is as if Christ was saying it. We are being commanded to live a certain way. The level and environment in which you are convicted to follow is individual. But it does not mean its optional once you are convicted of a teaching. When they established the functioning of the church it was not optional to carry it through. That is why there was guide lines on who and how the basic structure f the churhc of Christ would be. There is basic guidelines on how one dresses and behaves. Simply because everyone doesn't doe not change the fact that the teachings are there. There are direct teachings on how a husband is to treate his wife and a wife her husband. We cannot ignor or rationalize those things. When you read your bible discern that which is a command and that which is other wise. You need to know. They are clearer than you say. I see no grey area's in the scriptures nor does my church teach as if there are.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I do not feel convicted on your interpretation. Nothing more. for me to say...

 

[Poohbear]

RealLuvs,

Some things in the bible are just as you say, showing what was the custom started or the reaction to an event. For example, we know that some of the first churches were in private homes. They had been put our of the temple forbidden to celabrate the Lords supper there. When Christians were persecuted they went underground and held services in the catacombs and stables and in secret. Later they were allowed to construct there own places of worship. This is history and customs developing. However some are direct teachings. Christ taught the apostles and commanded that they do as he did. He showed us certain behavior and told us to follow him. These things should not be unclear in your mind. He also chose the apostles. He commanded them to establish his church on earth. If they state how something was to be done or understood then it is as if Christ was saying it. We are being commanded to live a certain way. The level and environment in which you are convicted to follow is individual. But it does not mean its optional once you are convicted of a teaching. When they established the functioning of the church it was not optional to carry it through. That is why there was guide lines on who and how the basic structure f the churhc of Christ would be. There is basic guidelines on how one dresses and behaves. Simply because everyone doesn't doe not change the fact that the teachings are there. There are direct teachings on how a husband is to treate his wife and a wife her husband. We cannot ignor or rationalize those things. When you read your bible discern that which is a command and that which is other wise. You need to know. They are clearer than you say. I see no grey area's in the scriptures nor does my church teach as if there are.

Great post! I agree!

 

[blessedangil03]

I've been watching this debate go on and on and on. This is exactly why there are so many denominations today. Everyone interprets scripture their own way and stick to it. They claim that it is the only way and anyone else that goes against it, goes against the word. I've been in the church all of my life, and till this day I don't know what side I stand on concerning women pastors or women in leadership. I've read the two sides and they are both strong and on point. My thing is this, we serve one God and we we read the bible. People believe what they have been taught in the church, they believe in what they see in the Word (literally) and there others that go into deeper study of the time of the events and meaning of the words that were translated. Right now, I am not for or against. I believe that there are lost people out there that need to be saved and whoever can deliver the message let it be done, whether man or woman. It is about the kingdom ladies. It is about the lost sheep whose souls are being condemned if we don't do nothing about it. Jesus commanded us to go out and preach the good news. This is not an option but an obligation. It is obvious that we all have our different beliefs and interpretations. Also, let us have an open mind and allow God to use whatever vessel is available. I hope this all makes sense. Be blessed.

 

[Poohbear]

I've been watching this debate go on and on and on. This is exactly why there are so many denominations today. Everyone interprets scripture their own way and stick to it. They claim that it is the only way and anyone else that goes against it, goes against the word. I've been in the church all of my life, and till this day I don't know what side I stand on concerning women pastors or women in leadership. I've read the two sides and they are both strong and on point. My thing is this, we serve one God and we we read the bible. People believe what they have been taught in the church, they believe in what they see in the Word (literally) and there others that go into deeper study of the time of the events and meaning of the words that were translated. Right now, I am not for or against. I believe that there are lost people out there that need to be saved and whoever can deliver the message let it be done, whether man or woman. It is about the kingdom ladies. It is about the lost sheep whose souls are being condemned if we don't do nothing about it. Jesus commanded us to go out and preach the good news. This is not an option but an obligation. It is obvious that we all have our different beliefs and interpretations. Also, let us have an open mind and allow God to use whatever vessel is available. I hope this all makes sense. Be blessed.

Great post! Very well said! I agree that this is why we have denominations among Christianity as well!

 

[miracle]

I've been watching this debate go on and on and on. This is exactly why there are so many denominations today. Everyone interprets scripture their own way and stick to it. They claim that it is the only way and anyone else that goes against it, goes against the word. I've been in the church all of my life, and till this day I don't know what side I stand on concerning women pastors or women in leadership. I've read the two sides and they are both strong and on point. My thing is this, we serve one God and we we read the bible. People believe what they have been taught in the church, they believe in what they see in the Word (literally) and there others that go into deeper study of the time of the events and meaning of the words that were translated. Right now, I am not for or against. I believe that there are lost people out there that need to be saved and whoever can deliver the message let it be done, whether man or woman. It is about the kingdom ladies. It is about the lost sheep whose souls are being condemned if we don't do nothing about it. Jesus commanded us to go out and preach the good news. This is not an option but an obligation. It is obvious that we all have our different beliefs and interpretations. Also, let us have an open mind and allow God to use whatever vessel is available. I hope this all makes sense. Be blessed.

I love this post!!!!!! Thank you for this, blessedangil03!!!

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I love this post!!!!!! Thank you for this, blessedangil03!!!

Love the post too!

 

[JenJen2721]

Freedom From Human Regulations Through Life With Christ
6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d]

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[JenJen2721]

I believe that there are lost people out there that need to be saved and whoever can deliver the message let it be done, whether man or woman. It is about the kingdom ladies. It is about the lost sheep whose souls are being condemned if we don't do nothing about it. Jesus commanded us to go out and preach the good news. This is not an option but an obligation. It is obvious that we all have our different beliefs and interpretations. Also, let us have an open mind and allow God to use whatever vessel is available. I hope this all makes sense. Be blessed.

You make a lot of sense.

 

[Honeyhips]

Because that is my right and my choice. I don't have to defend myself. I don't feel like this is a discussion but a battle to prove who is right and who is wrong. Especially after it was implied that certain ones who disagree might be deceived and on their way to hell. Like any of us know who that is.

why do u keep wanting to PM people? why don't u share your knowledge here so we'll now what you're talking about and where you're coming from? There were women in the ministry: Priscilla, Mary, Tryphena, Typhosa, Eudias, and Synthche, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others. They just weren't preachers nor pastors.

 

[Honeyhips]

very well said.

I've been watching this debate go on and on and on. This is exactly why there are so many denominations today. Everyone interprets scripture their own way and stick to it. They claim that it is the only way and anyone else that goes against it, goes against the word. I've been in the church all of my life, and till this day I don't know what side I stand on concerning women pastors or women in leadership. I've read the two sides and they are both strong and on point. My thing is this, we serve one God and we we read the bible. People believe what they have been taught in the church, they believe in what they see in the Word (literally) and there others that go into deeper study of the time of the events and meaning of the words that were translated. Right now, I am not for or against. I believe that there are lost people out there that need to be saved and whoever can deliver the message let it be done, whether man or woman. It is about the kingdom ladies. It is about the lost sheep whose souls are being condemned if we don't do nothing about it. Jesus commanded us to go out and preach the good news. This is not an option but an obligation. It is obvious that we all have our different beliefs and interpretations. Also, let us have an open mind and allow God to use whatever vessel is available. I hope this all makes sense. Be blessed.

 

[Honeyhips]

Wow... this is good. I'm going to have to remember this.

I do not feel convicted on your interpretation. Nothing more. for me to say...

 

[Poohbear]

Because that is my right and my choice. I don't have to defend myself. I don't feel like this is a discussion but a battle to prove who is right and who is wrong. Especially after it was implied that certain ones who disagree might be deceived and on their way to hell. Like any of us know who that is.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I certainly don't feel like this is a battle to prove who's right or wrong. I think you are taking some responses the wrong way. There's no need to defend yourself about anything the Bible says. The Bible says what it says... no one can change that. And no you're not going to hell just because you disagree with what others say. I mean can't you see that there's pretty much an equal amount of ladies here that disagree with women pastors and agree with women pastors? As blessedangil03 said, that's why we have all these denominations in Christianity because of the different interpretations. So stand up for what you believe if you think what you believe is right!

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

To Honeyhips,

You should defend yourself. Christ did, the apostles did. How else could they show the truth. What will you do when you are approached by someone with questions on being Christian. How will you witness when they question or try to dispute what you say? What evidence and teachings will you produce for them. We cannot just walk away upset or shutdown because you have been challenged in your beliefs.

The statements were made that it was unclear in the bible about woman Pastors. When several ladies gave the scriptures some responses were Well I don't agree with no explanation based on scripture as to why. What explanation will you give a seeker.

If you get offended when you are challenged yet give no scripture or teaching to bear witness to your beliefs how can you witness in truth for Christ. If they ask where can they read that will you not produce the word for them. We must produce the evidence that has been given to us so that others can know it is true and not just our own interpretation or opinion.

And there are many false teachers and practices in the world today. I am not so proud to claim that I have never been falsley led by different teachings through the years. With the protestants having so many denominations I would think you would know the need to be prudent in what is out there. On this site we have heard of many saying they have heard some strange and conflicitng teachngs being put out by supposed teachers in some churches. Also the advice has been given to seek out churches that teach only the word. So obviuosly there are teachings going on that are or not biblically supported.

There was know one saying we are not all to bring the gospel to all we interact with. We have all been commanded to do so.

Study to show thy self approved. Be ready to give account of what you believe, why you believe it.

 

[JenJen2721]

When it comes down to it, salvation does not rest upon whether one has a female pastor or not.

 

[Poohbear]

When it comes down to it, salvation does not rest upon whether one has a female pastor or not.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

When it comes down to it, salvation does not rest upon whether one has a female pastor or not.

Yup! Between my SO thinking I'm horrible for going to church on Sunday and not saying yahweh and people on here thinking I'm horrible for listening to females preachers and pastors and my ma thinking I'm horrible for my belief on creationism, I REALLY needed to hear that, lol!

 

[Nice]

I really think we need to look at what was going on at the time when Paul advised women not to say anything in the church. At THAT time, the women were being disruptive, etc, so it was advised for them to keep their comments/questions to themselves, then ask their husbands questions. God did not forbid a woman to minister. I can't believe that women actually agree with that archaeic teaching.

What's next? You gonna tell me that women should not wear anything that pertains to a man, ie pants? Well, if so, take off your PANTIES, because they are shorter versions of pants,lol. We really need to STUDY the Word,by asking what,why,when, who and how.

Peace!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DragonPearl]

There is definitely a mysogynistic bias in the interpretations of the bible. Religious (mostly male) leaders have conveniently found all kinds of rethoric to explain away the need to follow certain bible injunctions regarding dress code, hairstyle, diet and food, etc, and the list is long. But they have not explained away the injunction to keep women silent and under the thumb of men in the church.

If in the church, women should NOT to have positions of authority, why stop there? Since most Christians do not like the separation of Church and state, I am wondering if the ladies subscribing to these ideas are also against women having positions of authority in politics and business. Should all the women bosses who have men working under them resign and let men have the positions of authority? I suppose Condi Rice should be a good Christian woman and give up her position of authority?