Should Women be Pastors?

[Mortons]

perplexedperplexederplexed

 

[pearlygurl]

That being said. I do not believe women should be pastors. Like our role in the home, we have a specific role in the church. We are to be active in the ministry - teaching and preaching the gospel. However, the role of a pastor extends beyond these things, and the Bible seems to lend support to the man alone for this role.

ITA.....

 

[Ms.Honey]

This will be an interesting topic.



Very true. From my understanding, in the old days of the church (even now in some cultures), men and women also did not sit together. Imagine how chaotic it might become if you have people carrying on conversation when they have substantial distance from each other. So it was an issue of order during the service.

That being said. I do not believe women should be pastors. Like our role in the home, we have a specific role in the church. We are to be active in the ministry - teaching and preaching the gospel. However, the role of a pastor extends beyond these things, and the Bible seems to lend support to the man alone for this role.

Where? There is no scriptural basis denying women a pastoral position. The Lord has had a women rule Israel under the authority of her husband. Paul said women "co-labored" with him in the gospel not ''supported men" but co-labored with them. The first person to preach the Gospel was a woman not a man. The first person to receive instruction from the risen Jesus was a woman not a man. The women BELIEVED the testimony of God and waited for Him on the Third day at his tomb while the men were off fishing. He gave these vitally important assignments to women. In Acts I believe there were sisters who ran churches from there homes, I'll search.
I believe most Protestant denominations and non-denominational churches have women Pastors. Now to me if male Bishops and Pastors believe that women should hold these positions.......

 

[Ms.Honey]

This will be an interesting topic.



Very true. From my understanding, in the old days of the church (even now in some cultures), men and women also did not sit together. Imagine how chaotic it might become if you have people carrying on conversation when they have substantial distance from each other. So it was an issue of order during the service.

That being said. I do not believe women should be pastors. Like our role in the home, we have a specific role in the church. We are to be active in the ministry - teaching and preaching the gospel. However, the role of a pastor extends beyond these things, and the Bible seems to lend support to the man alone for this role.

ITA.....

Do you ladies belong to denominational or non-denominational churches that have women Pastors? If not, which one?

 

[Caramela]

That being said. I do not believe women should be pastors. Like our role in the home, we have a specific role in the church. We are to be active in the ministry - teaching and preaching the gospel. However, the role of a pastor extends beyond these things, and the Bible seems to lend support to the man alone for this role.

I agree.
It's fine to feel a certain way about something (those are your personal feelings) but is one's faith based on facts or feelings?

 

[divya]

Where? There is no scriptural basis denying women a pastoral position. The Lord has had a women rule Israel under the authority of her husband. Paul said women "co-labored" with him in the gospel not ''supported men" but co-labored with them. The first person to preach the Gospel was a woman not a man. The first person to receive instruction from the risen Jesus was a woman not a man. The women BELIEVED the testimony of God and waited for Him on the Third day at his tomb while the men were off fishing. He gave these vitally important assignments to women. In Acts I believe there were sisters who ran churches from there homes, I'll search.
I believe most Protestant denominations and non-denominational churches have women Pastors. Now to me if male Bishops and Pastors believe that women should hold these positions.......

God has a purpose for both men and women, which includes particular roles for each of us. That being said, there is no scriptural basis in support of women in the pastoral position. Co-laboring with does not mean that both were pastors. Look at the fact that no women were apostles, for example. There is a difference between teaching and preaching the Word of God, and running the church. Just because the majority of Protestant denominations maintain a certain practice (and/or most males agree) does not make it in accordance with the Bible, as there are others areas in which we fall short. I rather rely on the Bible on this issue.

Here the Bible is actually specific. 1 Timothy 3:1-5 as well as the rest of the chapter.

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ...

Verses 12, 13.Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Titus 1:5-7
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

[Ms.Honey]

God has a purpose of both men and women, which includes particular roles for each of us. That being said, there is no scriptural basis in support of women in the pastoral position. Co-laboring with does not mean that both were pastors. Look at the fact that no women were apostles, for example. There is a difference between teaching and preaching the Word of God, and running the church. Just because the majority of Protestant denominations or males have women maintain a certain practice does not make it in accordance with the Bible, as there are others areas in which we fall short. I rather rely on the Bible on this issue.

Here the Bible is actually specific. 1 Timothy 3:1-5 as well as the rest of the chapter.

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ...

Verses 12, 13.Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Titus 1:5-7
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Genesis1;26 "And God said let us make man in our image and in our likeness", so women aren't made in the image and likeness of God. 1 Tim 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior who will would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of truth", God only wants men to receive salvation and come to the knowledge of truth. I could go on and on.
You have to keep the scripture in context and not pull out random scriptures to prove your point. You have to remember that Paul was addressing specific questions that Timothy and Titus had had inquired of him. He also describes a situation were a man is having an affair with his mother in law and Paul says that he must be excommunicated until he repents and when he does forgive him and let him back in. Does that mean that only men can be adulterers,no I don't think so. There are many scriptures directed toward men that don't concern only men.
No women were Apostles because the Apostles are symbolized as the 12 sons of Jesus as Abraham has 12 sons through his grandson Israel and all that that respresents to Him being the Father of all but that's a whole different topic.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. In America during slavery, black people weren't consider human so we could not receive salvation That was THEIR way of relying on the bible with no scriptural backing.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

How many of you lead people to salvation? How many of you pray with people on a regular basis? How many of you counsel people who are having difficulties in their lives? How many of you minister to those who have lost a loved one? Are you there with them, helping them through their time of grief, with prayer and supplication? How many of you minister the Gospel to hundreds or thousands of people? Do you know how? If so, how many times have you done this and how many people gave their hearts to Jesus Christ after you share this Gospel? How many of you get up at 2, 3, 4am to go to someone's home to pray for them because their child just died, or some other type of horrific tragedy, or for a couple who are having abuse issues in the home and need help? How many of you listen, truly listen to those who are struggling with drugs and alcohol dependency, and then are able to help them along in their struggle? How many of you counsel the youth in their struggle with sex, pregnancy, diseases, etc.? How many of you help people with necessities for living: Food, clothing, shelter...on a weekly basis?

I can go on and on but I would really like to know.

Now, I can answer all these questions and say YES, I do these things on a regular. How can I do these things? Because I have been called by God to do them...that's why He made me a Pastor.

That's all I'm going to say about this in this thread. Say what you must...but remember this: We will be held accountable for what we say and do in this life. I know God will say to me in the end..."Well, done thou good and faithful servant...enter into the joy of the Lord!!!

 

[Seeking8Rights]

I think that yes, women are allowed to be pastors, however, there is a place and time to do such.

Here is why (based upon my understanding):

When reading and interpreting the verse 1Co. 14:34-35, one needs to take in account the time in which Paul addressed the church of Corinth. During this time, the church of Corinth was gathering in immorality. The church as out of order and Paul addressed those areas in order that the church be restored. There were issues of laziness, false teaching and worship practices (especially with regards to the Lords Supper), there was no unity which created division, and immoralities.

Therefore, Paul’s primary focus was getting Corinth back in order, as we know God operates in order.

1 Co. 14:34-35 states “women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” (NIV)

There are three words that need to be taken in consideration when interpreting this verse. Speak; Law; Submission

The verse addresses the position that a woman should take within the church settings. During that era, their culture did not permit a woman to speak in church, but be in submission as the law says. The reason we (woman) were not permitted to speak at that time has to deal with the “covering” of the head in relation to being in the presence of the Lord. As the 1 Co. 11:5 says “And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head.

What is the significance of the head and a woman’s position in the church? Well, the significance is that a woman’s hair signifies a glory to a woman and a dishonor to a man. 1 Co. 11:13 -15 says “Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of the things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as her a covering.

Furthermore, submission, according to the Bible says that wives submit to their husbands as to the Lord. (Eph. 5:22). Submission means (Vines) to rather yield ones own right. **Key phrase: YIELD ONES OWN RIGHT**. Yield meaning to “give up”.

Therefore, this means that within the setting of the church, women are to be in submission. I do not believe it to mean that we are not allowed to be preachers or ministers, but in a church setting, we (woman) should not do such. Now we know that cultures and social orders change as people do and sometimes God will use whoever is willing, especially if there is a lack of male leaders.

Another thing we have to consider is that of the Law. The law in this text refers to the first book of the bible Gen 3:16, where God says to Eve (representing all women) “Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.” Self-explanatory in that if you view the organizational structure between man and woman, men are on top (after God) and women are below.

Before the fall of man, I believe the organizational structure was horizontal, however, because we (women) shared the responsibility in Adam’s fall, we were removed from such place, and Adam (man) became leader over us.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I think that yes, women are allowed to be pastors, however, there is a place and time to do such.

Here is why (based upon my understanding):

When reading and interpreting the verse 1Co. 14:34-35, one needs to take in account the time in which Paul addressed the church of Corinth. During this time, the church of Corinth was gathering in immorality. The church as out of order and Paul addressed those areas in order that the church be restored. There were issues of laziness, false teaching and worship practices (especially with regards to the Lords Supper), there was no unity which created division, and immoralities.

Therefore, Paul’s primary focus was getting Corinth back in order, as we know God operates in order.

1 Co. 14:34-35 states “women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” (NIV)

There are three words that need to be taken in consideration when interpreting this verse. Speak; Law; Submission

The verse addresses the position that a woman should take within the church settings. During that era, their culture did not permit a woman to speak in church, but be in submission as the law says. The reason we (woman) were not permitted to speak at that time has to deal with the “covering” of the head in relation to being in the presence of the Lord. As the 1 Co. 11:5 says “And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head.

What is the significance of the head and a woman’s position in the church? Well, the significance is that a woman’s hair signifies a glory to a woman and a dishonor to a man. 1 Co. 11:13 -15 says “Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of the things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as her a covering.

Furthermore, submission, according to the Bible says that wives submit to their husbands as to the Lord. (Eph. 5:22). Submission means (Vines) to rather yield ones own right. **Key phrase: YIELD ONES OWN RIGHT**. Yield meaning to “give up”.

Therefore, this means that within the setting of the church, women are to be in submission. I do not believe it to mean that we are not allowed to be preachers or ministers, but in a church setting, we (woman) should not do such. Now we know that cultures and social orders change as people do and sometimes God will use whoever is willing, especially if there is a lack of male leaders.

Another thing we have to consider is that of the Law. The law in this text refers to the first book of the bible Gen 3:16, where God says to Eve (representing all women) “Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.” Self-explanatory in that if you view the organizational structure between man and woman, men are on top (after God) and women are below.

Before the fall of man, I believe the organizational structure was horizontal, however, because we (women) shared the responsibility in Adam’s fall, we were removed from such place, and Adam (man) became leader over us.

I think that so many of you don't fully know what it means to be a pastor.

Being a pastor, is being a servant...not lording over anyone. Why do you all think that that is the definition of being a pastor? That we as women must be submissive, therefore a woman can't be a pastor because of submission. Do you all realize that being submissive is for men as well?

I think you all have alot of studying to do and while you are studying...please, ask the Holy Spirit to show you your heart and where you all are suppose be in the body of Christ, so that way you all will be equipped to do the work of the ministry the way God desires for you too.

The purpose and plan of God is for all men to come to repentance and for no one to perish. He will use anyone He wants to accomplish this....anyone.

Have a nice day.

 

[Poohbear]

God has a purpose for both men and women, which includes particular roles for each of us. That being said, there is no scriptural basis in support of women in the pastoral position. Co-laboring with does not mean that both were pastors. Look at the fact that no women were apostles, for example. There is a difference between teaching and preaching the Word of God, and running the church. Just because the majority of Protestant denominations maintain a certain practice (and/or most males agree) does not make it in accordance with the Bible, as there are others areas in which we fall short. I rather rely on the Bible on this issue.

The bolded statement is not necessarily true... check out Luke 8:1-3...

Luke 8 - (1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, (2) and certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, (3) and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Even though the women mentioned in Luke 8:1-3 were not part of the primary 12 disciples, they still went out and proclaimed and brought the good news of God's kingdom just like the 12 disciples.

 

[shelly25]

So what do you all think about women being pastors?
​

I don't see why not...

 

[klb120475]

I think that so many of you don't fully know what it means to be a pastor.

Being a pastor, is being a servant...not lording over anyone. Why do you all think that that is the definition of being a pastor? That we as women must be submissive, therefore a woman can't be a pastor because of submission. Do you all realize that being submissive is for men as well?

I think you all have alot of studying to do and while you are studying...please, ask the Holy Spirit to show you your heart and where you all are suppose be in the body of Christ, so that way you all will be equipped to do the work of the ministry the way God desires for you too.

The purpose and plan of God is for all men to come to repentance and for no one to perish. He will use anyone He wants to accomplish this....anyone.

Have a nice day.

I luv you!!! I've been trying to tell folx this for years and of course I get looked at like I'm crazy and they're condemning me to the fiery pits of hell.

When I accepted my calling as a minister....it wasn't about me having "authority" or "power" over someone.

Ex: Let's say for instance I wasn't currently active in a church in the role or title of "minister". Then someone asks me on the streets if I'm still a minister...my response will be yes because a minister is simply a servant. You don't have to be actively preaching over the pulpit to be a servant. We are all called to servanthood.

 

[Bubblingbrownshuga]

I am so torn on this cause I LUBS me some Joyce Meyers, Marilyn Hickey (and her daughter).

 

[Seeking8Rights]

I think that so many of you don't fully know what it means to be a pastor.

Being a pastor, is being a servant...not lording over anyone. Why do you all think that that is the definition of being a pastor? That we as women must be submissive, therefore a woman can't be a pastor because of submission. Do you all realize that being submissive is for men as well?

I think you all have alot of studying to do and while you are studying...please, ask the Holy Spirit to show you your heart and where you all are suppose be in the body of Christ, so that way you all will be equipped to do the work of the ministry the way God desires for you too.

The purpose and plan of God is for all men to come to repentance and for no one to perish. He will use anyone He wants to accomplish this....anyone.

Have a nice day.

I am fully aware of what a pastor is, as my mother is one. I don't believe I said that the role of a pastor is to lord over anyone.

This is a question I have always wondered in which I seeked an answer via the word of God. Now again, what I said was that I believe we can be used as pastors, however, from my understanding order should be considered. Yes, I agree God will use anyone and whever he sees fit. However, we know that he will do such in accordance to his word too. My reference to submission was pertaining to the topic in question. If there is something that I missed then as a fellow sister in Christ, point me in the direction of clarification.

Thank you for the encouragement, as God knows my heart is open for further revelation. I am not one to say that I have all the answers, God knows that too. We all come from different walks of life with God and we all are not on the same level. Therefore, many of the questions asked should be approached in a manner to provide edification and understanding to those that lack understanding.

keclee

 

[Seeking8Rights]

I am so torn on this cause I LUBS me some Joyce Meyers, Marilyn Hickey (and her daughter).

I love Joyce Meyers too and have always been a fan.

 

[PaperClip]

I am so torn on this cause I LUBS me some Joyce Meyers, Marilyn Hickey (and her daughter).

The women you named are not pastors. They function more in the roles of evangelism and teaching.

Ephesians 4:11: "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;....

 

[Seeking8Rights]

The women you named are not pastors. They function more in the roles of evangelism and teaching.

Ephesians 4:11: "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;....

Right I agree with you RR in that there is a difference, as I have always been taught such.

RR, will you please read through my post to see where I lack understanding?

 

[PaperClip]

I am fully aware of what a pastor is, as my mother is one. I don't believe I said that the role of a pastor is to lord over anyone.

This is a question I have always wondered in which I seeked an answer via the word of God. Now again, what I said was that I believe we can be used as pastors, however, from my understanding order should be considered. Yes, I agree God will use anyone and whever he sees fit. However, we know that he will do such in accordance to his word too. My reference to submission was pertaining to the topic in question. If there is something that I missed then as a fellow sister in Christ, point me in the direction of clarification.

Thank you for the encouragement, as God knows my heart is open for further revelation. I am not one to say that I have all the answers, God knows that too. We all come from different walks of life with God and we all are not on the same level. Therefore, many of the questions asked should be approached in a manner to provide edification and understanding to those that lack understanding.

keclee

Right I agree with you RR in that there is a difference, as I have always been taught such.

RR, will you please read through my post to see where I lack understanding?

Hello, Keclee:

I see that you mentioned order and submission. I said in an earlier post that as I believe that the Bible allows for a woman to hold and serve in the role, function, and title of pastor, she she needs to have a male COVERING. That covering can be her husband or other appropriate spiritual authority, either a (competent) male pastor or bishop or apostle, etc.

So, as that MALE COVERING ALLOWS that woman to go forth in teaching, preaching, pastorship, etc., neither that man nor that woman is out of order in the Lord because we agree that the Lord has given spiritual authority to the man/male pastor/bishop, etc. and the Lord is not going to override or contradict His biblical instruction.

Let's all be clear about the definition of a pastor: one who covers, guides, leads a religious group of people, e.g., like a shepherd leads a flock of sheep.

The issue with SOME OF the women/wives in 1 Corinthians is that their questioning and domineering attitudes (demonstrated by interrupting the service, probably to the embarrassment of their husbands) caused DISRUPTION in the service. The Apostle Paul spoke and gave instruction on how the situation was to be handled. Tell the women/wives to be quiet and ask their questions to their husbands at home and stop interrupting the service. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to let all things be done decently and in order.

We know some women in our congregations who DISTURB the service for everybody, and it gives a bad name to women who truly have a call upon their lives to go forth and preach/teach/pastor. But as it has been said in this thread, it was a woman who declared the gospel of Jesus Christ upon Jesus' resurrection.

Bottom line: women can pastor. They need a male covering.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I am fully aware of what a pastor is, as my mother is one. I don't believe I said that the role of a pastor is to lord over anyone.

This is a question I have always wondered in which I seeked an answer via the word of God. Now again, what I said was that I believe we can be used as pastors, however, from my understanding order should be considered. Yes, I agree God will use anyone and whever he sees fit. However, we know that he will do such in accordance to his word too. My reference to submission was pertaining to the topic in question. If there is something that I missed then as a fellow sister in Christ, point me in the direction of clarification.

Thank you for the encouragement, as God knows my heart is open for further revelation. I am not one to say that I have all the answers, God knows that too. We all come from different walks of life with God and we all are not on the same level. Therefore, many of the questions asked should be approached in a manner to provide edification and understanding to those that lack understanding.

keclee

The post that I wrote was a general one...it wasn't directed towards you personally. I just happened to write it within your post, so my apologies if you thought I directed it towards you.

That is great that your mother is a pastor...but, until you operate under the calling of a pastor, no one can truly understand what it means to be one.

The Word of God doesn't tell us everything...however, that's where the Holy Spirit comes in, because He will teach us everything that we need to know, because He knows the Will of God.

As a pastor, I understand my calling fully, being in the ministry for 21 years. These types of threads come up and it confuses people, much like the tithing threads...it becomes unfruitful and we should all look to bear "good" fruit at all times. It also shows those that are not believers, that we can't even agree with some of the most basic topics in Christiandom, so there is no wonder why so many don't want to become a Christian.

I'm done...blessings, always.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Hello, Keclee:

I see that you mentioned order and submission. I said in an earlier post that as I believe that the Bible allows for a woman to hold and serve in the role, function, and title of pastor, she she needs to have a male COVERING. That covering can be her husband or other appropriate spiritual authority, either a (competent) male pastor or bishop or apostle, etc.

So, as that MALE COVERING ALLOWS that woman to go forth in teaching, preaching, pastorship, etc., neither that man nor that woman is out of order in the Lord because we agree that the Lord has given spiritual authority to the man/male pastor/bishop, etc. and the Lord is not going to override or contradict His biblical instruction.

Let's all be clear about the definition of a pastor: one who covers, guides, leads a religious group of people, e.g., like a shepherd leads a flock of sheep.

The issue with SOME OF the women/wives in 1 Corinthians is that their questioning and domineering attitudes (demonstrated by interrupting the service, probably to the embarrassment of their husbands) caused DISRUPTION in the service. The Apostle Paul spoke and gave instruction on how the situation was to be handled. Tell the women/wives to be quiet and ask their questions to their husbands at home and stop interrupting the service. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to let all things be done decently and in order.

We know some women in our congregations who DISTURB the service for everybody, and it gives a bad name to women who truly have a call upon their lives to go forth and preach/teach/pastor. But as it has been said in this thread, it was a woman who declared the gospel of Jesus Christ upon Jesus' resurrection.

Bottom line: women can pastor.

They need a male covering

.

ITA. My male covering is my husband.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I luv you!!! I've been trying to tell folx this for years and of course I get looked at like I'm crazy and they're condemning me to the fiery pits of hell.

When I accepted my calling as a minister....it wasn't about me having "authority" or "power" over someone.

Ex: Let's say for instance I wasn't currently active in a church in the role or title of "minister". Then someone asks me on the streets if I'm still a minister...my response will be yes because a minister is simply a servant. You don't have to be actively preaching over the pulpit to be a servant. We are all called to servanthood.

I luv you too, sis. It's something that alot of people can't understand.

But, hopefully....we can all agree to disagree and keep it moving

Loving you ALL with the love of the Lord!

 

[divya]

The bolded statement is not necessarily true... check out Luke 8:1-3...

Luke 8 - (1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, (2) and certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, (3) and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Even though the women mentioned in Luke 8:1-3 were not part of the primary 12 disciples, they still went out and proclaimed and brought the good news of God's kingdom just like the 12 disciples.

Nowhere does that say that these women were apostles...

 

[Seeking8Rights]

Hello, Keclee:

I see that you mentioned order and submission. I said in an earlier post that as I believe that the Bible allows for a woman to hold and serve in the role, function, and title of pastor, she she needs to have a male COVERING. That covering can be her husband or other appropriate spiritual authority, either a (competent) male pastor or bishop or apostle, etc.

So, as that MALE COVERING ALLOWS that woman to go forth in teaching, preaching, pastorship, etc., neither that man nor that woman is out of order in the Lord because we agree that the Lord has given spiritual authority to the man/male pastor/bishop, etc. and the Lord is not going to override or contradict His biblical instruction.

Let's all be clear about the definition of a pastor: one who covers, guides, leads a religious group of people, e.g., like a shepherd leads a flock of sheep.

The issue with SOME OF the women/wives in 1 Corinthians is that their questioning and domineering attitudes (demonstrated by interrupting the service, probably to the embarrassment of their husbands) caused DISRUPTION in the service. The Apostle Paul spoke and gave instruction on how the situation was to be handled. Tell the women/wives to be quiet and ask their questions to their husbands at home and stop interrupting the service. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to let all things be done decently and in order.

We know some women in our congregations who DISTURB the service for everybody, and it gives a bad name to women who truly have a call upon their lives to go forth and preach/teach/pastor. But as it has been said in this thread, it was a woman who declared the gospel of Jesus Christ upon Jesus' resurrection.

Bottom line: women can pastor. They need a male covering.

Thank you for clarification. See I knew that women can pastor, however, where I began to ask God to show me is in the area of covering with regards to women who are called to ministry. I am sitting here burning up my mothers phone line ready to ask her to show me the connection, as I know God called her (therefore, I am obviously missing something).

Again, thank you.

 

[Bubblingbrownshuga]

The women you named are not pastors. They function more in the roles of evangelism and teaching.

Ephesians 4:11: "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;....

They don't go by the titles of pastor, but they are leaders and have their own ministries and without getting caught up in the semantics and such, the point is that they are heads in their ministries and some may believe this is out of order.

I remember Joyce Meyer talking about others trying to push her into having a title and she declined. Maybe the reason why was b/c of the drama it could cause just for claiming that title alone.

What about Bishop Vashti? I can't remember her name but she's a black woman bishop.

 

[divya]

Genesis1;26 "And God said let us make man in our image and in our likeness", so women aren't made in the image and likeness of God. 1 Tim 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior who will would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of truth", God only wants men to receive salvation and come to the knowledge of truth. I could go on and on.
You have to keep the scripture in context and not pull out random scriptures to prove your point. You have to remember that Paul was addressing specific questions that Timothy and Titus had had inquired of him. He also describes a situation were a man is having an affair with his mother in law and Paul says that he must be excommunicated until he repents and when he does forgive him and let him back in. Does that mean that only men can be adulterers,no I don't think so. There are many scriptures directed toward men that don't concern only men.
No women were Apostles because the Apostles are symbolized as the 12 sons of Jesus as Abraham has 12 sons through his grandson Israel and all that that respresents to Him being the Father of all but that's a whole different topic.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. In America during slavery, black people weren't consider human so we could not receive salvation That was THEIR way of relying on the bible with no scriptural backing.

I certainly am keeping the Scriptures in context, which is exactly why I stated to read the entire chapter. The scripture is very clear. There is nothing random about those verses at all. Further, you have not provided any scriptural response concerning the matter. Please respond with Thus saith the Lord.

 

[pearlygurl]

Do you ladies belong to denominational or non-denominational churches that have women Pastors? If not, which one?

Non-demoninational...and we have women ministers.

 

[PaperClip]

Thank you for clarification. See I knew that women can pastor, however, where I began to ask God to show me is in the area of covering with regards to women who are called to ministry. I am sitting here burning up my mothers phone line ready to ask her to show me the connection, as I know God called her (therefore, I am obviously missing something).

Again, thank you.

Amen. And women pastors (well, anybody in ministry) have to be VERY CAREFUL whom they submit to/choose to come under authority.... It's a delicate situation. That male covering serves as that woman pastor's defense, advocate, protector, disciplinarian, spiritual leader/guide, etc. And yet again, the Lord has given us instruction on what to look for in leaders with integrity: like He says about the requirements of a bishop.

A woman pastor has to be sure that she submits to someone who KNOWS HOW TO LEAD IN INTEGRITY AND COMPETENCE. If she submits under a pastor who is ill-equipped to lead her, then she's going to be angry and oppressed and that male pastor is going to feel threatened and intimidated at that woman pastor's greater anointing.

It's like me trying to get married to a man who cannot "handle" me. I don't mean grabbing on me and all that. What I mean is that the Lord has blessed and anointed me to build this empire (my private joke) and then I'm just going to submit under a man in marriage who I cannot trust, who is incompetent and let the Lord's investment in me be ruined? How about not?

It matters what church you go to. It matters what pastor you submit to. It matters.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

This topic has been here on this forum before. If you all do a search, you will find out that it was talked about at length.

 

[PaperClip]

They don't go by the titles of pastor, but they are leaders and have their own ministries and without getting caught up in the semantics and such, the point is that they are heads in their ministries and some may believe this is out of order.

I remember Joyce Meyer talking about others trying to push her into having a title and she declined. Maybe the reason why was b/c of the drama it could cause just for claiming that title alone.

What about Bishop Vashti? I can't remember her name but she's a black woman bishop.

I didn't say the Joyce Meyers and others weren't LEADERS, but they do not function in the traditional role of pastors. It's not the point of what title they choose to carry, but their FUNCTIONS in the Body of Christ. They function as evangelists, traveling and preaching the gospel to win souls for Christ. But they do not have a physical place/location that people can go to on a consistent basis for those souls to be fed, nurtured, led, etc. That's what the local churches are for.

And I'm not saying they are out of order, either. Joyce Meyer's husband is pretty visible in the ministry. Marilyn Hickey may also have a male covering that she submits to and that doesn't necessarily have to be all up front, either, but if she is asked who her male covering is, she (Marilyn) should be able to state who that is.

Re. the bolded:Yes, good question. I LOVE Bishop Vashti Murphy MacKenzie. I heard her speak at my school. She's out of the AME (African Methodist Episcopal) Church. The first female bishop. I went back and forth with a couple of my friends trying to justify Bishop Vashti's title but I couldn't. I had to give in because of what the BIBLE says about the office of a bishop (1 Timothy 3):

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
​

Although Bishop Vashti's example leads me to this question: is the FUNCTION of a bishop WITHOUT the title the same thing? So if Vashti was still doing the things that a bishop does, e.g., overseeing pastors, overseeing churches, etc. (without the title), is she still out of order?

Now that I think about it, I suppose she would be/is....