Women Pastors...

[Honeyhips]

Well, let's see....

The man of God is our sheperd; our guide. He is the very mouthpiece of God...agree?

He gets up, declares..."thus saith the Lord" Sets order, rebukes, corrects, reproves....agree?...

This is considered authority......what the Bible clearly says a woman must not do. She can't stand behind the sacred desk and declare these things..it is out of order.

In our local assembly, the ladies teach children's Sunday School, we also teach Bible Studies(sometimes to men) but never behind the sacred desk.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you could pull scripture after scripture of women Pastors and ministers, etc.. Can you take a minute to do that for me?

I have been wanting to study this for a very long time and you ladies have provided me with a slew of info. Thank you soo much

I really like this board!!

Keep posting!

At this point no. Ask God to show you. I don't think it will add anything b/c people are already dead set in their own frame of mind and I don't want to get into I'm right your wrong debate which is why what I've said so far has been limited. It won't be a healthy discussion. When I get back I will pm you some women to study.

 

[sithembile]

Onepraying, I like your interpretation!

In controversial matters in the Bible such as this one, I sometimes choose to take the more conservative view, because its better to be safe than sorry when it comes to following the word of God, imho.

 

[Poohbear]

Onepraying, I like your interpretation!

In controversial matters in the Bible such as this one, I sometimes choose to take the more conservative view, because its better to be safe than sorry when it comes to following the word of God, imho.

I'm pretty conservative myself. When you get too liberal, it opens doors to beliefs against the word of God.

 

[Honeyhips]

Being too conservative also opens up the door for legalism and that will stifle the move of God.

 

[Poohbear]

You mentioned in an earlier post that you could pull scripture after scripture of women Pastors and ministers, etc.. Can you take a minute to do that for me?

At this point no. Ask God to show you. I don't think it will add anything b/c people are already dead set in their own frame of mind and I don't want to get into I'm right your wrong debate which is why what I've said so far has been limited. It won't be a healthy discussion. When I get back I will pm you some women to study.

You know why you can not list any women pastors/preachers in the Bible? Because there were no women pastors/preachers!!!

I listed a few women who either taught and evangelized, or served in leadership positions in the church in a previous post: "Paul's commended co-worker Priscilla taught Apollos, the great preacher. In addition, Paul frequently mentioned other women who held positions of responsibility in the church. Phebe worked in the church. Mary, Tryphena, and Tryphosa were the Lord's workers, as were Eudias and Synthche." Priscilla, Mary, Tryphena, Typhosa, Eudias, and Synthche were NOT women preachers.

There was even women disciples (defined as a follower of Jesus) mentioned in the book of Luke 8:1-3 but they were not preachers nor pastors. They just proclaimed and brought the good news of the kingdom of God with the 12 disciples: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others.

 

[Poohbear]

Being too conservative also opens up the door for legalism and that will stifle the move of God.

Legalism restricts free choice/will... it will not stifle the move of God because God is OMNIPOTENT. I don't believe in free will... only God's will. Yes! we make our own decisions/choices in life, but we can do NOTHING without God for God is the one who is in total control. I also believe in the COMPLETE sovereignty of God.

 

[sithembile]

Being too conservative also opens up the door for legalism and that will stifle the move of God.

This is true, but I'm not trying to impose my interpretation on others, the Spirit is just leading me to take a conservative view on this topic. To be honest, I'm not sure which is God's view here, so I'm just saying for me, when in doubt, leave it out.

 

[Honeyhips]

and where did I say that I did not believe in the svereignty of God. It doesn't matter if you believe in free will or not. GOD gives it to us. Legalism does not stifle free will, it CAN and most likely DOES stifle the holy spirit. If people are not open to receive him. But I'm seriously down with this b/c now I'm justifying myself and God is just, he will do it. I don't have to prove anything.

But PM if you want a good scripture on legalism and how they were trying to stifle Jesus.

Legalism restricts free choice/will... it will not stifle the move of God because God is OMNIPOTENT. I don't believe in free will... only God's will. Yes! we make our own decisions/choices in life, but we can do NOTHING without God for God is the one who is in total control. I also believe in the COMPLETE sovereignty of God.

 

[Poohbear]

and where did I say that I did not believe in the svereignty of God. It doesn't matter if you believe in free will or not. GOD gives it to us. Legalism does not stifle free will, it CAN and most likely DOES stifle the holy spirit. If people are not open to receive him. But I'm seriously down with this b/c now I'm justifying myself and God is just, he will do it. I don't have to prove anything.

But PM if you want a good scripture on legalism and how they were trying to stifle Jesus.

I didn't say you didnt believe in the sovereignty of God. I'm just saying for myself that I believe in the complete sovereignty of God that he is in total control and that there is only one will which is God's will.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

my aunt founded her church...she is the pastor...the church has really grown and is now one of the biggest churches in the city...

everyone has their own beliefs, but i don't see anything wrong with women being a pastor, evangelist, etc as long as they're preaching the right things...

there are plenty of men that are church leaders that are fornicating, messing w/ kids, stealing money, and everything else...so just because the pastor is a man doesn't mean that he's one of "the chosen ones"...just something to think about.



also a question...those of you that are not in favor of women pastors, deacons, etc...do you prefer not to listen to juanita bynum, paula white, joyce meyer, etc?

Ditto!

I have grown up around women pastor's and preachers my whole life. My ma is an ordained minister and has preached and teached many times in the pulpit. Not only that but the church where she started preaching had a woman pastor. My SO's granny is the pastor of his/their church and the church he goes to in TN is also led by a woman. I am super familiar with women preachers and pastors. I never thought it was even anything that was debated except for in a couple of denominations.

So what do you all think of the women pastor's themselves? All the women preachers I know of speak of being "called" to the ministry. Are you all saying they are not hearing from God? Are their prayers about going in the ministry supposedly being answered by Satan or something? Do you all believe they are committing a sin?

I also agree that people should look at the context.

 

[onepraying]

I really think we need to look at what was going on at the time when Paul advised women not to say anything in the church. At THAT time, the women were being disruptive, etc, so it was advised for them to keep their comments/questions to themselves, then ask their husbands questions. God did not forbid a woman to minister. I can't believe that women actually agree with that archaeic teaching.

What's next? You gonna tell me that women should not wear anything that pertains to a man, ie pants? Well, if so, take off your PANTIES, because they are shorter versions of pants,lol. We really need to STUDY the Word,by asking what,why,when, who and how.

Peace!

Great debate!

You are funny... ...those are underclothing. They are different though, aren't they. If a man put on women's panties then he's weird, right? Men and women were always different. God made us that way. If there were not words and just pictures on a bathroom door, how would you tell which is the men's which is the women's? What would you see?

I posted this before, the Bible is our guide not a story book. If the women were getting out of hand/place then what do you think would happen today? Human nature hasn't changed. We can't say, "That's for them." It isn't right. Those things are written for our sakes....there is nothing new under the sun.

The Bible is clear about usurping authority. It just is....there is no getting around it....

 

[dreamgurl]

So what do you all think of the women pastor's themselves? All the women preachers I know of speak of being "called" to the ministry. Are you all saying they are not hearing from God? Are their prayers about going in the ministry supposedly being answered by Satan or something? Do you all believe they are committing a sin?

Great questions. RLAO

 

[JenJen2721]

The Bible is clear about usurping authority. It just is....there is no getting around it....

Are women pastors usurping authority if their husbands have given them the go ahead to teach in church? Isn't that the wife submitting to her husband as the bible has instructed her to do?

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

A few ladies mentioned how they have woman pastors or know some. This how ever is not the standard to follow. Many things go on in our world that is not aligned with scripture. No matter how great we think something is or how well it works we are not the creator to even have a clue as to what is truelly right except but what he says. We were given the word. According to 1 Timothy I do not see how any one can say this is confusing. The language is clear and concise. It has nothing to do with some particular group of woman at a particular church being disruptive. How ever if woman were demanding things out side of the teachings no matter how right they may felt them to be this would also be disrupting. Even today.

Many people say they were called by God. Or they prayed and God said to do something. If the result is one that is against his original teachings then it could never be from him. And maybe its not from satan either. Its simply from our own selves.

I have to ask why some woman feel they are being "shut out" just because a certain teachings dirct others or men to a particular position? Have they done all they can in the positions God did give them? Also why the need to start all these "new churches"? It's rebellion and a refusal to submit. NOt my will but thine will be done.

Remember Christ said "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful things? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you;depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mathew 7:21-23. A few verses later it says that the people were astonished by his doctrine. "For he taught as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Mt 7:29. This even shows there is a difference in preaching and teaching and then having authority to command and lead.

It also shows that many will be out there saying they are doing as the Lord told them but it will not be so. We can not act opposing to his teachings then say he told us to do something. We are only listening to our selves.

Woman are far from shut out. If they only few men's positions as worthy they will create what ever justification to seek those things. And this idea of asking for a sign. The teachings are there. we must accept them. He already gave us all the signs and wonders we need. There is a passage about people who will still be seeking after signs and wonders and new teachings. They are lost. " A wicked and adulterous generations seekth after a sign." He would tell them then they would say" give us a sign"

Jesus has spoke and appointed his apostles. They have taught as he instructed and acted. How can so much be unclear? To many want the scriptures to fit them rather then conforming to fit the scriptures. They learn from the world then want the teachings of Christ to change to meet that standard. It won't change and will never work for you if you try to manipulate it to fit the worlds and your own feelings and understanding. I hear people always saying they are shopping around for a church. Is there so much difference in the teachings? And why are they different? They have their feelings about this and that then say the scriptures are unclear.

As stated before God is not a God of confusion. In the bible we see people who would not accept the Lord's teachings and went their own way. There were those who rejected the apostles teaching and started their own form of following Christ.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away they ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables." 11Tim 3:4.

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

JenJen2721,

I do not believe getting permission from someone in error is gives you leway to commit the wrong.
We are to submit our selves one to another. Husbands should not be giving permission in something contrary to biblical teachings. If he is submitted unto Christ he will direct his household in the teachings of Christ not his own.

 

[Poohbear]

Are women pastors usurping authority if their husbands have given them the go ahead to teach in church? Isn't that the wife submitting to her husband as the bible has instructed her to do?

Not everything your husband tells you to do isn't always right. But when the Bible talks about submission, it's actually talking about submitting to decisions made and acknowledging that the husband is the head of household. God also gives wisdom to wives as far as knowing right from wrong in a decision. For example (off topic): God says obey your parents. What if your dad told you to go steal some food for the family. Is the child suppose to do it? No. I know that is a totally different subject but I'm trying to make a point that not everything your husband allows you to do is right.

 

[onepraying]

A few ladies mentioned how they have woman pastors or know some. This how ever is not the standard to follow. Many things go on in our world that is not aligned with scripture. No matter how great we think something is or how well it works we are not the creator to even have a clue as to what is truelly right except but what he says. We were given the word. According to 1 Timothy I do not see how any one can say this is confusing. The language is clear and concise. It has nothing to do with some particular group of woman at a particular church being disruptive. How ever if woman were demanding things out side of the teachings no matter how right they may felt them to be this would also be disrupting. Even today.

Many people say they were called by God. Or they prayed and God said to do something. If the result is one that is against his original teachings then it could never be from him. And maybe its not from satan either. Its simply from our own selves.

I have to ask why some woman feel they are being "shut out" just because a certain teachings dirct others or men to a particular position? Have they done all they can in the positions God did give them? Also why the need to start all these "new churches"? It's rebellion and a refusal to submit. NOt my will but thine will be done.

Remember Christ said "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful things? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you;depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mathew 7:21-23. A few verses later it says that the people were astonished by his doctrine. "For he taught as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Mt 7:29. This even shows there is a difference in preaching and teaching and then having authority to command and lead.

It also shows that many will be out there saying they are doing as the Lord told them but it will not be so. We can not act opposing to his teachings then say he told us to do something. We are only listening to our selves.

Woman are far from shut out. If they only few men's positions as worthy they will create what ever justification to seek those things. And this idea of asking for a sign. The teachings are there. we must accept them. He already gave us all the signs and wonders we need. There is a passage about people who will still be seeking after signs and wonders and new teachings. They are lost. " A wicked and adulterous generations seekth after a sign." He would tell them then they would say" give us a sign"

Jesus has spoke and appointed his apostles. They have taught as he instructed and acted. How can so much be unclear? To many want the scriptures to fit them rather then conforming to fit the scriptures. They learn from the world then want the teachings of Christ to change to meet that standard. It won't change and will never work for you if you try to manipulate it to fit the worlds and your own feelings and understanding. I hear people always saying they are shopping around for a church. Is there so much difference in the teachings? And why are they different? They have their feelings about this and that then say the scriptures are unclear.

As stated before God is not a God of confusion. In the bible we see people who would not accept the Lord's teachings and went their own way. There were those who rejected the apostles teaching and started their own form of following Christ.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away they ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables." 11Tim 3:4.

Well said....

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Well I do feel shut out. I feel more and more alienated by the church everyday. I have to just start accepting that my interpretations are different. People pick and choose what they feel is important to follow in the Bible. Just like going to church on a Sunday. The Sabbath isn't Sunday, right? People in general only accept literal biblical meanings when they want to. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

Hi Reluvs! Don't feel shut out sister girll!!!

Even the disciples argued and had differences. The key is to be surrendered and to pray for discernment.

I don't believe in multiple truths. Jesus is the same yesterday today and tomorrow and so is His Word.

God has a standard BUT Light is not given to us all once. It is progressive. This is what Jesus did with his disciples. As he felt they were ready, He revealed more and more to them. So just b/c you are convicted, that doesn't mean God has revealed that light to someone else.

The Holy Spirit may be working on us in one area while we are still in the dark about another area.

That is why its so important that we live according to God's will. By your attitude, demeanor, and life, God could be trying to use YOU to reveal new light to someone else.

I pray all of us here who are passionate about our positions do so not because of what we have been told by a pastor or by relatives or anyone else. Or b/c it would be painful to admit our position is in error. But I hope are passion is b/c we have thoroughly studied the scriptures for ourselves. We must test everything we do and believe against God's Word.

The importance of daily worship and communion with God has never been greater. We must ALWAYS be studying God's word and be open receiving new light from the Holy Spirit.

Be blessed!
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (New International Version)

15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

Well I do feel shut out. I feel more and more alienated by the church everyday. I have to just start accepting that my interpretations are different. People pick and choose what they feel is important to follow in the Bible. Just like going to church on a Sunday. The Sabbath isn't Sunday, right? People in general only accept literal biblical meanings when they want to. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Honeyhips]

I'm going to send you a pm of why and how people are interpreting this women shouldn't be Pastors wrong and examples of women who were in the ministry. DOn't feel shut out, just ask God to give you wisdom. That is what I had to do, when I first read these verses I was ticked offf.

Well I do feel shut out. I feel more and more alienated by the church everyday. I have to just start accepting that my interpretations are different. People pick and choose what they feel is important to follow in the Bible. Just like going to church on a Sunday. The Sabbath isn't Sunday, right? People in general only accept literal biblical meanings when they want to. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Honeyhips]

Great debate!

You are funny... ...those are underclothing. They are different though, aren't they. If a man put on women's panties then he's weird, right? Men and women were always different. God made us that way. If there were not words and just pictures on a bathroom door, how would you tell which is the men's which is the women's? What would you see?

I posted this before, the Bible is our guide not a story book. If the women were getting out of hand/place then what do you think would happen today? Human nature hasn't changed. We can't say, "That's for them." It isn't right. Those things are written for our sakes....there is nothing new under the sun.

The Bible is clear about usurping authority. It just is....there is no getting around it....

of course it does, and those women need to be silent. not those women who are being obedient to God.

 

[Honeyhips]

It is clear and concise and it is about a certain group of women.

The same can be said about countless men who have had a church for 30 years and the same ten members. It isn't just about women starting their own churches but about women who have been called to be Pastors and Deacons with in a church.

Of course not everyone is called to Preach or Teach. That wasn't the issue. That is just common sense.

I could easily say that you are just as deceived as you are painting those who disagree with you.
Yes it does make sense that people shop around for a church. Some maybe doing b/c they want to do something that God hasn't called them to do and they are going to go from church to church until someone lets them. Some, like my friend, could have left one church for another b/c they were strong in an area that they want to grow in, like deliverance, prophesy, and praying in tongues. So yes it is possible to "shop" around for a church, until you are led by the holy spirit to be planted in one. It is about going to where God wants your annointing to be used.

Again, we are not going after our own lust, just b/c we disagree with you.

. The language is clear and concise. It has nothing to do with some particular group of woman at a particular church being disruptive. How ever if woman were demanding things out side of the teachings no matter how right they may felt them to be this would also be disrupting. Even today.

Many people say they were called by God. Or they prayed and God said to do something. If the result is one that is against his original teachings then it could never be from him. And maybe its not from satan either. Its simply from our own selves.

I have to ask why some woman feel they are being "shut out" just because a certain teachings dirct others or men to a particular position? Have they done all they can in the positions God did give them? Also why the need to start all these "new churches"? It's rebellion and a refusal to submit. NOt my will but thine will be done.

Remember Christ said "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful things? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you;depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mathew 7:21-23. A few verses later it says that the people were astonished by his doctrine. "For he taught as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Mt 7:29. This even shows there is a difference in preaching and teaching and then having authority to command and lead.

It also shows that many will be out there saying they are doing as the Lord told them but it will not be so. We can not act opposing to his teachings then say he told us to do something. We are only listening to our selves.

Woman are far from shut out. If they only few men's positions as worthy they will create what ever justification to seek those things. And this idea of asking for a sign. The teachings are there. we must accept them. He already gave us all the signs and wonders we need. There is a passage about people who will still be seeking after signs and wonders and new teachings. They are lost. " A wicked and adulterous generations seekth after a sign." He would tell them then they would say" give us a sign"

Jesus has spoke and appointed his apostles. They have taught as he instructed and acted. How can so much be unclear? To many want the scriptures to fit them rather then conforming to fit the scriptures. They learn from the world then want the teachings of Christ to change to meet that standard. It won't change and will never work for you if you try to manipulate it to fit the worlds and your own feelings and understanding. I hear people always saying they are shopping around for a church. Is there so much difference in the teachings? And why are they different? They have their feelings about this and that then say the scriptures are unclear.

As stated before God is not a God of confusion. In the bible we see people who would not accept the Lord's teachings and went their own way. There were those who rejected the apostles teaching and started their own form of following Christ.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away they ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables." 11Tim 3:4.

I guess it depends on how you define Pastor, b/c although I have one head Pastor in my church who is the head, there are others under him. As well as Deacons and Elders. They are part of the leadership team as a whole. THey do have authority over the rest of the congregation.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Oh yeah and when I say I feel shut out its not just this. I believe and see that there are 2 very convincing arguments and I chose the interpretation I feel is correct. I just think people pick and choose like the sabbath thing. Such a turn off. I'm trying though!

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

I feel you on the Sabbath issue....

Oh yeah and when I say I feel shut out its not just this. I believe and see that there are 2 very convincing arguments and I chose the interpretation I feel is correct. I just think people pick and choose like the sabbath thing. Such a turn off. I'm trying though!

 

[Poohbear]

I'm going to send you a pm of why and how people are interpreting this women shouldn't be Pastors wrong and examples of women who were in the ministry. DOn't feel shut out, just ask God to give you wisdom. That is what I had to do, when I first read these verses I was ticked offf.

why do u keep wanting to PM people? why don't u share your knowledge here so we'll now what you're talking about and where you're coming from? There were women in the ministry: Priscilla, Mary, Tryphena, Typhosa, Eudias, and Synthche, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others. They just weren't preachers nor pastors.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

why do u keep wanting to PM people? why don't u share your knowledge here so we'll now what you're talking about and where you're coming from? There were women in the ministry: Priscilla, Mary, Tryphena, Typhosa, Eudias, and Synthche, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others. They just weren't preachers nor pastors.

For the purpose of this thread does Preacher = Pastor? i.e. leader of a church. B/C I consider myself a preacher but NOT a pastor. I have assisted in bible studies and preached the Word to fellow believers

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Whats in the name (preachers, pastors, etc) isn't it the actions that define?

 

[JenJen2721]

1 Timothy 2:9-15

9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.


_________________________________________________________

So do you guys also follow verse 9 that says no braids, gold, pearls or expensive clothing???

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

I guess everyone has there own definition.

Whats in the name (preachers, pastors, etc) isn't it the actions that define?

 

[JenJen2721]

I guess everyone has there own definition.

What's the difference in your opnion Natalie?