Why Men Want To Marry Melanias And Raise Ivankas

[tallnomad]

I read a blog by a woman with an interesting theory about this. The gist of it was that bm as a group don't put in the work associated with pampering and taking good care of bw but some of them are more than happy to swoop in and date non-black women after their men have put it the hard work of building them up.

One of my homeboys said something during a get together that sounded similar. He said he knows some bm date others when they leave the hood because they associate bw with struggle and hardship.

my friend was telling me this in the exact same words. . . . bushido/sojourner lady, right?

eta: I see it is her.

 

[qchelle]

This isn't my dad at all lol. But this is a very interesting conversation!

 

[Evolving78]

The wife is there for the husband's wants and needs. Her focus and life should revolve around him. The daughter isn't his wife. It's very territorial when it comes to fathers and daughters. It's not that he wants his daughter to be this great woman, he doesn't want to share her with another man. That's his offspring. He wants his daughter to be independent, so there is no need for her to be supported by another man. And why would a man want someone that looks like his mother and sisters? Those are women that played a part in raising him. Nothing attractive about that.
The non black issue is something else. Black men falling in love with white women is an escape of who and what they are. Nothin more, nothing less. That is something they have to venture out and seek.

 

[Evolving78]

Basically she told us to be strong and have our own money, so we wouldn't have to put up with ish. IMHO she didn't have to put up with it either. She is college educated, and her dad has money.

Yeah but that's his woman. Why would he encourage his wife to do that? You are his daughter. He doesn't want his daughter supporting, compromising, and taking care of another man. He wouldn't want that for himself. You are a part of him.

 

[Evolving78]

In theory, my man wants an Ivanka. In practice, he'd prefer a Melania. Men are crazy.

That's how I see black men. They want you to be educated, work, independent, but want you to put all of that aside when it comes to them and their needs. Be Ivanka in the streets. Be Melania at home.

 

[Stormy]

There are so many issues here that I wish I had the words to effectively articulate all my thoughts in a manner that would convey them clearly....I think it's very interesting how this concept applies to BW since there's always the WW side of things, how it affects them and how the same issue has a totally different spin for BW. Majorly speaking, haven't black wives always been treated like black daughters? The expectation is that we should take care of ourselves and not depend on a man, make your own money, be independent, don't take no mess from men kind of attitude; which in turn has lead to our de-feminization, leaving us less likely to be taken care of and nurtured by our spouses or BM in general. So BM see us as "daughters" and "sisters" and "mothers" instead of wives and/or objects of desire. (Side note, that's why when there's a BW who is seen as ultra feminine there's such visceral polarizing opinions amongst BW)

One poster stated, her BM friend sees BW as a reminder of the struggle and IF you are trying to escape why would you bring the struggle along with you? Although it's simplistic thinking, I understand the mindset (if that's his experience).

I personally want the cake that the white women gets to eat, to be seen as smart, well educated and independent but vulnerable, soft, beatiful and desirable...working is an option not a necessity and I should be well taken care of either way. So the real question is how do we get there? Reprogram BM's view of BW, raise our sons to see black woman as multifaceted beautiful beings, maybe BW should stop taking on the struggle as a badge of honor????

My initial answer is you first have to see yourself in that light (which may also be simplistic thinking) .... I think I'm rambling but I did say at the start I had way to many thoughts in my head...lol

You conveyed that very clearly.

 

[Evolving78]

Not thinking ahead...we typically outlive them

And some men in their prime wanna control everything! It bites them in the behind later! That happens to a lot of WW. "Oh Bill takes care of everything." Now she gotta start from scratch when bill gets sick, or dies. She doesn't have a clue about the bills, policies, nothing.

 

[barbiesocialite]

This isn't my dad at all lol. But this is a very interesting conversation!

This applies to my paternal grandfather for sure. He certainly tried to steer me in the Ivanka direction. His daughters are super independent but my grandmother was a housewife.

However, I'm not sure this applies to some of the men on my maternal side because the women in my family are dumb. I'm the only one Ive ever heard anyone describe as intelligent. But I guess Id put them somewhere between Ivanka and Melania.

 

[barbiesocialite]

There are so many issues here that I wish I had the words to effectively articulate all my thoughts in a manner that would convey them clearly....I think it's very interesting how this concept applies to BW since there's always the WW side of things, how it affects them and how the same issue has a totally different spin for BW. Majorly speaking, haven't black wives always been treated like black daughters? The expectation is that we should take care of ourselves and not depend on a man, make your own money, be independent, don't take no mess from men kind of attitude; which in turn has lead to our de-feminization, leaving us less likely to be taken care of and nurtured by our spouses or BM in general. So BM see us as "daughters" and "sisters" and "mothers" instead of wives and/or objects of desire. (Side note, that's why when there's a BW who is seen as ultra feminine there's such visceral polarizing opinions amongst BW)

One poster stated, her BM friend sees BW as a reminder of the struggle and IF you are trying to escape why would you bring the struggle along with you? Although it's simplistic thinking, I understand the mindset (if that's his experience).

I personally want the cake that the white women gets to eat, to be seen as smart, well educated and independent but vulnerable, soft, beatiful and desirable...working is an option not a necessity and I should be well taken care of either way. So the real question is how do we get there? Reprogram BM's view of BW, raise our sons to see black woman as multifaceted beautiful beings, maybe BW should stop taking on the struggle as a badge of honor????

My initial answer is you first have to see yourself in that light (which may also be simplistic thinking) .... I think I'm rambling but I did say at the start I had way to many thoughts in my head...lol

I love this post.

I think I see myself as a Melania but have potential to be an Ivanka however being an Ivanka scares the bejesus out of me. I'm actually not as spoiled as some think I am but it definitely affects how people treat me. People act like I'm dumb and can't do anything by myself. Consequently, I internalize it to the point it becomes a handicap I can't shake.

You know, the interesting thing is that black women are the most likely to treat me as if Im fragile compared to any other group. In a way, it's almost like I can get a black woman to play the role of husband easier than an actual potential husband. Now that Im thinking about it, that's disturbing and problematic.

 

[BK Bombshell]

I personally want the cake that the white women gets to eat, to be seen as smart, well educated and independent but vulnerable, soft, beatiful and desirable...working is an option not a necessity and I should be well taken care of either way. So the real question is how do we get there? Reprogram BM's view of BW, raise our sons to see black woman as multifaceted beautiful beings, maybe BW should stop taking on the struggle as a badge of honor????

This all day.

I had to deprogram myself from this mindset, but some days I still backslide and have to remind myself that it's neither necessary nor desirable. A lot of us are indoctrinated to push, pull, drag and carry everybody & their issues only to end up physically & emotionally depleted, sick, poor and worn out at the end of our lives. I've divested myself from other people's struggles and even my own. Now I'm more strategic about getting what I want and I'm so much happier.

I just started reading the Muslim Bushido blog and it's pretty eye-opening. Between her and that woman on YouTube (her name escapes me right now), I'm changing my perspective on a lot of things.

 

[barbiesocialite]

This thread is interesting in light of Off Topic's recent transition to becoming the Struggle Forum. Its a nightmare. I cant even go there anymore without feeling the need to have a drink because that ish is depressing. Who wants to talk about fighting, dying, killing and struggle off effin day?! Thats what the news is for.

Clealry black women embrace struggle. They love struggle. They are so deeply invested in fighting their own battles and, evidently, everyone else's that im not sure most are capable of changing it.

Melanias would be like, oh well, who cares and kim.....

 

[kanozas]

And it's cyclical. When their independent and intellectual daughters marry, they step into their mother's roles of toning down their smart to be sweeter and more accommodating by default. Why don't they judge this trend for men to stay home while she brings home the money? Men as nurturers? I think most of them are b.s. - scared to prove themselves and found a niche to be taken care of. It's different when you are the one carrying a child for 9 months, feeding for 2 more years etc. I prefer a man to be the breadwinner and stress himself out there. Women simply need more options and it's fastly becoming some kind of slave existence for us. We just plain do every damned thing with little support, whether married or not.

 

[happycakes]

Patricia Bright said this about that baby with the big old head?

She should be glad her baby came out healthy.

soo..like Zendaya's father?

anyway my thing is that when people get all giddy like that Im like so..did dude say he didnt want the child to look or yall just projecting?

reminds me of the comments by some women on Patria Brights youtube..talking about how "sad" she didnt get her husband's blue eyes and ish

 

[MizAvalon]

Patricia Bright said this about that baby with the big old head?

She should be glad her baby came out healthy.

Patricia didn't say that, some of her viewers did.

 

[FelaShrine]

Patricia Bright said this about that baby with the big old head?

She should be glad her baby came out healthy.

Lol I never saidf Patricia said that.

 

[Weezy Jefferson]

This thread is interesting in light of Off Topic's recent transition to becoming the Struggle Forum. Its a nightmare. I cant even go there anymore feelining the need to l have a drink because that ish is depressing. Who wants to talk about fighting, dying, killing and struggle off effin day?! Thats what the news is for.

It would be nice to have a subforum for this stuff- perhaps a "News" forum would encompass most of it. And it would also be nice if the forum had an option to hide topics from certain subforums from appearing in "New Posts" list.

 

[aviddiva77]

No I did not, but I'm glad somebody (they might listen to ) called them out.

eta: I'm lying. Apparently, I posted in it.

eta 2: re-reading it now and pg 6 was veeeeery interesting. explains a lot.

All right you gonna have to explain this one.

 

[barbiesocialite]

No I did not, but I'm glad somebody (they might listen to ) called them out.

eta: I'm lying. Apparently, I posted in it.

eta 2: re-reading it now and pg 6 was veeeeery interesting. explains a lot.

What happened on page 6? Did i post in the thread?

 

[Honey Bee]

All right you gonna have to explain this one.

What happened on page 6? Did i post in the thread?

I was being petty. Yall gon have to read it to find out. I will say, it explains a lot of the anti-bm sentiment around here.

One thing I respect about you, Barbie, is that you started a thread explicitly explaining your logic and you stood behind it. I don't have to agree, but I respect the forthcoming... ness.

 

[Honey Bee]

It would be nice to have a subforum for this stuff- perhaps a "News" forum would encompass most of it. And it would also be nice if the forum had an option to hide topics from certain subforums from appearing in "New Posts" list.

I would think that potentially getting shot would be a thing we all wanted to know about. No?

 

[aviddiva77]

I was being petty. Yall gon have to read it to find out. I will say, it explains a lot of the anti-bm sentiment around here.

One thing I respect about you, Barbie, is that you started a thread explicitly explaining your logic and you stood behind it. I don't have to agree, but I respect the forthcoming... ness.

No I got that lol. I went back and read it. And the only thing that stood out was when we were talking about Cali men. The rest is par for the course for the forum

So in respect to the Cali discussion I'm not seeing how it makes us anti-bm to say our dealings with bm in Cali. (Not accusing or anything I swear. I'm genuinely curious as to what you're seeing). Because we or at least I know that they don't represent all black men, hell they don't represent all black men in Cali lol.

 

[Honey Bee]

No I got that lol. I went back and read it. And the only thing that stood out was when we were talking about Cali men. The rest is par for the course for the forum .

No, I'm not touching that Cali men debate. That's not where I was going.

 

[aviddiva77]

No, I'm not touching that Cali men debate. That's not where I was going.

Ah. Understood then lady.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

I am struggling with this thread because my first thought is who cares what men like Donald Trump want? Not everyone thinks like Donald Trump anyways. His cognitive dissonance is not my problem.

But there are also some valid points about this type of behavior from some men. So I'm reading through and mulling it over. As long as it's viewed as some, I guess then I can understand analyzing these types of men. I do not think it's is the whole of men who think this way.

To me: Some men like women with opinions and personality whether they work or stay at home. Some men value their women for their mind and all that they are. This is the type of guy I like. This is the type of guy that I'm interested in being with and is the opposite of the Donald types. I think most men would prefer to not be emasculate but to me even a woman who is more like Ivanka could make certain she doesn't emasculate a man. You can still want him and make him feel needed because of who he is not just what he does for you.

Melania is not for a man who wants to really know a woman. She's for the guy who wants a dog with pony tricks. She's like a barbie doll without personality who does what she's told. If he told her to sit she would. If he told her to roll over she would (and probably does ). As long as she's fed her allowance, she will keep on doing what she's told unless he disposes of her for a younger model (not likely if he becomes president because of politics but possible if he does not).

As for the other women: Every woman is too this or that when Donald is through with them. His first wife Ivana was too into his business (mentioned in the article) but from what I read he encouraged her to go into this business and so now what...she was too busy working and that was her crime? Nah his crime was that he sticks his peen where it doesn't belong. Then his mistress and next wife also has a problem. This one is too this, this one is too that. Nope. It's all Donald and his wandering peen. If he leaves Melania he'll have something to say about her too, and some how it will be all her fault. I don't buy it. He just likes women, and he's a narcissist so everything wrong is their fault.

I do think some men have cognitive dissonance on this issue but then we determine if we're okay with what he really wants or not. Because of course some men say, "I want blah blah blah" but then go for the opposite and it's like dude that's the opposite of what you just said. So I look at their actions and see if they match their words. If not, then I decide if I'm okay with that or not. I'm not interested in molding myself for guys I don't want anyways (because I don't agree with their thoughts or who they are anyways). So for me, I'm interested in finding the guy who is perfect for me and not trying to fit some mold because of some guy like Donald. I'm not interested in that type anyways...

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Oh some thoughts I had on Melania: As for Melania being a traditional wife, she's not really that either. They're too filthy rich for that. She doesn't need to cook (she has a cook), he might not change diapers but her nannies can do that (and I'm pretty sure she's not messing up that manicure), she's not cleaning (housekeeper), and I'm darn sure she's not washing any clothes. The only thing she's doing is shopping, getting her hair and nails done, going to the spa, and occasionally checking in on her children. So it's not like he wants a traditional wife because she is not that. She's a specific type of rich man's wife who happens to know how to come when she's called. I don't know what to call her but she's in a category for the rich. And either way for now he's liking that she does what she's told and I'm sure whether he stays with her or not, he'll find another to do the same. I don't think all men want this type. Some don't want a talking doll or parrot, some actually want a human being.

 

[Honey Bee]

@luckiestdestiny, That's a wall of text there, girl, lol. I'ma go back and read it cuz I fux wit you, but let me just say this. I'm a Melania. Nobody looks at me and thinks, Oh, that's a smart girl with, like, thoughts and stuff. They're shocked and amazed when I hit them with the actual 'me' going on inside.

Who's to say Melania isn't like that? Who's to say what's going on between her and her husband? Idk, and I certainly don't want to speculate. ( ) But this thread isn't about her so much. It's about an (apparent) ornament vs a 'useful' wife. It's about women who rule what is traditionally the 'woman's sphere' vs those who venture out into what is considered the 'man's sphere'.

I'm drinking, lol, so I may or may not be clear. I really don't know. Now let me go back and read.

 

[Honey Bee]

She doesn't need to cook (she has a cook), he might not change diapers but her nannies can do that (and I'm pretty sure she's not messing up that manicure), she's not cleaning (housekeeper), and I'm darn sure she's not washing any clothes. The only thing she's doing is shopping, getting her hair and nails done, going to the spa, and occasionally checking in on her children. So it's not like he wants a traditional wife because she is not that. She's a specific type of rich man's wife who happens to know how to come when she's called.

Dang, you really went in on her/ them.

Well, I'll say this. As many of you may know, I'm a 'SAHgf'. We are in no way rich. But we manage to live in NYC, in decent style, on one income, and with certain amenities. I don't do too much cleaning or laundry and ish either. But, let me tell you, that ish is hard to organize! It's HARD to have all the background ish clicking the way it's supposed to be while also looking beautiful, calm, and unflustered at all times. That ish is hard work. I was talking to SO tonight and I likened it to being the assistant chick in The Devil Wears Prada. Your work game gotta be tight, your style game gotta be on point, it's hard.

To give you some insight, I have house make up. Nothing extensive, just a lil tinted moisturizer, brow stuff, mascara, and tinted gloss, but I'm saying. It's not as easy as it looks.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

..................

 

[luckiestdestiny]

@luckiestdestiny, That's a wall of text there, girl, lol. I'ma go back and read it cuz I fux wit you, but let me just say this. I'm a Melania. Nobody looks at me and thinks, Oh, that's a smart girl with, like, thoughts and stuff. They're shocked and amazed when I hit them with the actual 'me' going on inside.

Who's to say Melania isn't like that? Who's to say what's going on between her and her husband? Idk, and I certainly don't want to speculate. ( ) But this thread isn't about her so much. It's about an (apparent) ornament vs a 'useful' wife. It's about women who rule what is traditionally the 'woman's sphere' vs those who venture out into what is considered the 'man's sphere'.

I'm drinking, lol, so I may or may not be clear. I really don't know. Now let me go back and read.

So like I had another wall of text response

I guess I'm on a roll this morning . You are NOT a Melania. You're a something else. I guess my point was I don't think it's either Melanias or Ivankas as a choice. You're a hybrid. Because you DO have a mind. You DO use it. You Do have a voice and you use it. Melania just does what she's told. We can only speculate about Melania but from his sexist responses (and I'm sure it's not just in the media)...she's still there shopping away. There are other interviews where he says he doesn't like women who make a fuss. I just took that, along with interviews pieced together with her where she looks at him before she talks like "is this okay"? Along with other interviews from exes I'm also going by my intuition. So to me she is okay with just being a quiet pretty woman and his money is enough. They asked her once if she would love Donald if he wasn't rich, and she responded with something similar to , "Would he love me if I weren't beautiful?" Now even though this response is amusing and true (for them), it shows you the set up of the relationship. She loves him for what he gives, and he loves her for how she looks. They both are in agreement so I see nothing wrong with their relationship, but I don't see it as something I personally want.

If we're talking ornament vs usesful, I still think you're ornamentally useful (I know that's not a word ). To me with a mind like yours (from your posts) and opinions (regardless of if I always agree because we can't agree on 100 percent), you contribute to a partnership. To me it is a gift when a guy respects a woman and appreciates her for all she is, and she has something to contribute whether she stays at home or not (and whether she has house makeup or not because there's nothing wrong with looking pretty too). Donald's the type who doesn't want a woman with an opinion or contribution. I think he just wants people to serve him. He just wants an easy yes woman (he's said in the past the type he likes from interviews). So I guess I'm thinking about the fifties television, "Yes dear" wife and I'm like how is she the only option besides being an Ivanka. Can't a woman stay at home and contribute, have an opinion and a life that isn't just about a man? I have a feeling Melania's whole life is about Donald. Ivana said in an interview she had to cater to him. I'm willing to bet though you love your man, you have a mind and life of your own. This can be done without being combative. I think certain types of guys are intimidated by this type (and Donald is one of them) even if the woman isn't combative because they want the world to center around them. I guess I'm talking about an equal partnership whether at home or at work (where you both value each other for your mind, body, and soul.)

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Dang, you really went in on her/ them.

Well, I'll say this. As many of you may know, I'm a 'SAHgf'. We are in no way rich. But we manage to live in NYC, in decent style, on one income, and with certain amenities. I don't do too much cleaning or laundry and ish either. But, let me tell you, that ish is hard to organize! It's HARD to have all the background ish clicking the way it's supposed to be while also looking beautiful, calm, and unflustered at all times. That ish is hard work. I was talking to SO tonight and I likened it to being the assistant chick in The Devil Wears Prada. Your work game gotta be tight, your style game gotta be on point, it's hard.

To give you some insight, I have house make up. Nothing extensive, just a lil tinted moisturizer, brow stuff, mascara, and tinted gloss, but I'm saying. It's not as easy as it looks.

There's nothing wrong with having help (maids, cooks, etc). Managing things can be hard work but I'm willing to bet Melania is The Devil in the Devil Wears Prada and she has assistants to do the bulk of her work . Again I am all for that life anyways but I just want to add myself to it instead of being an empty type (who simply exists for her man and does not have a mind of her own or rather will not use it for fear of retribution). I'm willing to bet you do more than her (she has assistants after all to assist her with her cooks and maids ) but again even with help and an easy going lifestyle I think I'd be down for that if I didn't have a man who was a dictator who did not want any or very little "imput". I actually want to contribute in a relationship whether I stay at home or not...

I'm sure that making things run smoothly is not easy so I'm not trying to take away the credit of SAH people of any kind. My issue with her has to do with her passive stance in the relationship. I don't like the choice of her vs Ivanka (because I want something in between). So this is all about that really.