Why Men Want To Marry Melanias And Raise Ivankas

Crackers Phinn

Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.
For the TLDR crowd:
When men have daughters, their attitudes shift and they begin to adhere less stringently to traditional gender roles; no similar effect happens to mothers of girls. Fathers of daughters are also more likely to support reproductive rights than men who don’t have girls. Men have often given their female offspring more opportunities than their female partners, perhaps seeing their children as extensions of themselves.


Why Men Want to Marry Melanias and Raise Ivankas


YOU can tell a lot about a person by whom they choose to marry. As the nominees selected at this week’s Republican National Convention and next week’s Democratic one take the stage along with their family members, they will display not only stark policy differences, but also two competing views of marriage, kin and the role of women in society. What we’re seeing from Republicans: Men who want their wives at home while they celebrate the professional successes of their daughters.

The Republican Party has long praised traditional family values and intrinsic differences between men and women, while Democrats emphasize egalitarianism and expanding opportunities for women and girls. Few candidates in recent history have embodied those dissimilarities in such sharp relief as Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump. On Monday night, Mr. Trump’s wife, Melania, spoke about her husband and their family values. The speech was, like the woman herself, fairly unobjectionable on its face, with platitudes about family and country, patriotism and hard work. Like much of the Trump image, though, the shiny veneer hid shoddy construction: The very same parts of the speech that lauded integrity, hard work and honesty were lifted almost word for word from Michelle Obama’s 2008 convention speech.

It seems not even purported Trump family values are authentic. To borrow from Mr. Trump: sad.

One traditional value Mr. Trump does hew to: wanting an old-fashioned wife but a modern, professional daughter. On Thursday, convention-goers will hear from the elder Trump daughter, Ivanka, a successful businesswoman currently writing a book called “Women Who Work.” They’ll also witness how the Trump family embodies a very old sexist hypocrisy: Men who want one thing for their wives and another for their children.

While Trump family values may not be particularly honorable, they are perversely traditional. Melania Trump told the R.N.C. audience that “Donald is intensely loyal to family,” a claim belied by his own marital history — she is wife No. 3, and No. 2 was the woman with whom he cheated on No 1. Mr. Trump has children with three different women; he blames giving his wife too much responsibility in his business for his first divorce, and his wife’s wanting him to spend too much time at home with her and their daughter for his second.

The qualities Mr. Trump seeks in his romantic partners are remarkably retro. Melania Trump is a former model with her own QVC jewelry line and skin care brand who emphasizes that her role as a mother comes before all else; Mr. Trump has spoken disparagingly of working women, does little in the way of child care, and expects women to be more aesthetically appealing than intellectually substantive. “We know our roles,” his wife has said. “I didn’t want him to change the diapers or put Barron to bed.” Mr. Trump agrees: “I won’t do anything” to take care of the children, he told Howard Stern in 2005. “I’ll supply funds and she’ll take care of the kids.” By contrast, Mr. Trump took out a campaign ad featuring Ivanka, and said of her: “I am so proud of Ivanka. She is a terrific person, a devoted mother and an exceptional entrepreneur.”

It can feel unfair to criticize political spouses, who are often dragged into the spotlight only because of whom they married. Mr. Trump, though, is running for office, making his treatment of women — personal and political — as relevant as his treatment of his employees or business partners. The distinctions between the Clinton marriage and the Trumps’ reflect an uncomfortable evolution also happening in homes across the United States. In the past half-century, American women have undergone a transformation in roles, and married couples now look a lot more like the Clintons — or Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared Kushner — than whatever traditional view of women and home life that Mr. Trump holds: Most women work outside the home full time, and men increasingly marry women who are their educational and professional equals.

But the public remains deeply ambivalent about these shifts. Today, 40 percent of women are their family’s primary breadwinners, and nearly 80 percent of Americans agree that women should not return to traditional roles in society. A third still say it’s best for small children if Mom doesn’t work at all. The Republican Party has particularly struggled to accept this new model, and still pushes back on women’s progress by opposing policies that would help women work and plan their families: things like federally funded child care, paid parental leave and access to birth control.

And like Mr. Trump praising his daughter’s business acumen, men want different things in their wives than in their daughters. Changing gender roles look less threatening when it’s their children who benefit. According to a survey published by Maria Shriver’s Shriver Report, American men listed “intelligence” as the top quality they valued in both a wife and a daughter, but then the responses split: More men said they wanted their wives to be attractive and sweet than said the same about their female children. For daughters, men ranked being independent, strong and principled as more important qualities than those same characteristics in wives. Two-thirds of men want an independent daughter, but only one in three wants an independent wife. Fourteen percent of men said they wanted a wife who was a homemaker; just 5 percent said the same about their daughters.

This dynamic seems to play out in the Trump family: Mr. Trump’s wife is professionally attractive, anecdotally nice and by her own telling fairly traditional, while his elder daughter is a strong, independent and well-educated businesswoman who was mentored by her father and rose to prominence inside his companies. Ivanka has been more publicly involved in the campaign than her stepmother, serving as something of a surrogate spouse to Mr. Trump by defending his treatment of women and emphasizing his good character. And it is Ivanka, not Ms. Trump, who is slated to introduce Mr. Trump as the Republican Party nominee on Thursday night.

This female empowerment narrative — of the daughter, not the wife — is one Americans are more ready to accept. A man who says he’s never changed a diaper and is on his third marriage to a former model may appeal to a resentful male minority, but will look unfamiliar and unappealing in much of the country. A successful child, though — that’s relatable and desirable. When men have daughters, their attitudes shift and they begin to adhere less stringently to traditional gender roles; no similar effect happens to mothers of girls. Fathers of daughters are also more likely to support reproductive rights than men who don’t have girls.

Men have often given their female offspring more opportunities than their female partners, perhaps seeing their children as extensions of themselves. Even today, many men find themselves newly appalled at sexism after having a girl, a reaction apparently not stoked by being born of a woman, married to a woman or simply seeing women as human. In our reluctantly feminist America, one question this election poses is whether we’ve evolved enough to value women as individuals instead of assessing them relationally, as an attractive wife supporting her husband or as a high-achieving daughter reflecting a flattering light back on her parents.

It’s a question Mr. Trump has addressed in his personal life. His answer isn’t very pretty.
 
There is a certain pride that kind of man will take in his making of that daughter, versus the wife who he can't say he really had a hand in creating in that same way. I always think about this when folks start going off about black men not wanting a wife that looks like their mom and sisters, and how giddy folks get at the prospect of them having offspring that look black. I don't think the men necessarily view it in that way.
 
What strikes me about the article is how it focuses on how men compartmentalize the different roles of women in their lives. They have a wife box, daughter box and probably mother, sister, jump off, etc. boxes all of which are assigned different attributes.

This reinforces my belief that it falls on deaf ears when bw chastise bm for selecting women who do not have much in common with their black mothers and sisters.
 
There is a certain pride that kind of man will take in his making of that daughter, versus the wife who he can't say he really had a hand in creating in that same way. I always think about this when folks start going off about black men not wanting a wife that looks like their mom and sisters, and how giddy folks get at the prospect of them having offspring that look black. I don't think the men necessarily view it in that way.
The board is being iffy about where I can post but this is exactly what struck me about the article.
 
There is a certain pride that kind of man will take in his making of that daughter, versus the wife who he can't say he really had a hand in creating in that same way[/B]. I always think about this when folks start going off about black men not wanting a wife that looks like their mom and sisters, and how giddy folks get at the prospect of them having offspring that look black. I don't think the men necessarily view it in that way.


soo..like Zendaya's father?

anyway my thing is that when people get all giddy like that Im like so..did dude say he didnt want the child to look or yall just projecting?

reminds me of the comments by some women on Patria Brights youtube..talking about how "sad" she didnt get her husband's blue eyes and ish
 
What strikes me about the article is how it focuses on how men compartmentalize the different roles of women in their lives. They have a wife box, daughter box and probably mother, sister, jump off, etc. boxes all of which are assigned different attributes.

This reinforces my belief that it falls on deaf ears when bw chastise bm for selecting women who do not have much in common with their black mothers and sisters.
You got it!!
 
Because that type of man views his wife as a sex object but at the same time doesn't want his daughter to be objectified.

Didn't have to read the article ro figure that out.

Maybe not but it doesn't seem to transfer to other related conversations that women have when discussing men.

There's a lot of experts on men in these internet streets whose responses don't reflect this line of thinking.
 
But why would a bw care about other bw chastising bm for being snow bunny chasers on a predominately black message board that's supposed to be our safe space?

The topic has been brought up in 'our safe space' before me by black women with black husbands, black boyfriends, black FB's, etc. and I thought this article approached the subject from a different angle than has been previously discussed.
 
Fascinating article, I definitely have observed the way men compartmentalize, not sure what the takeaway should be for the modern woman from this atricle though.

In regards to BM dating women that have nothing in common with their mothers and sisters, thats fine if we're talking about introverted vs extroverted, or well travelled city girls vs down home country girls, but if we're talking about the epidemic of colorstruck brown to dark skinned BM having literal aversions to their dark skinned counterparts, thats not something I'm ever willing to accept. Dark skinned BW should not just be put in the asexual mammy category by their own men.

Other then that this is really interesting, the question is, if a SAHW traditional wife if the ideal archetype for men these days and their raising daughters that are highly educated entrepreneurial career women, how will they fare on the dating scene?
 
Fascinating article, I definitely have observed the way men compartmentalize, not sure what the takeaway should be for the modern woman from this atricle though.

In regards to BM dating women that have nothing in common with their mothers and sisters, thats fine if we're talking about introverted vs extroverted, or well travelled city girls vs down home country girls, but if we're talking about the epidemic of colorstruck brown to dark skinned BM having literal aversions to their dark skinned counterparts, thats not something I'm ever willing to accept. Dark skinned BW should not just be put in the asexual mammy category by their own men.

Other then that this is really interesting, the question is, if a SAHW traditional wife if the ideal archetype for men these days and their raising daughters that are highly educated entrepreneurial career women, how will they fare on the dating scene?
my guess is that will depend on how they are raising their sons.
 
This describes my dad to a t. My mom was never allowed to work or drive. My dad didn't let her pursue all of her interests. Somehow they are still together.

He always encouraged me and my sister to be fully independent, and take zero crap from men. According to him our mom was brought up to be a housewife, unlike us. So harsh....
 
This describes my dad to a t. My mom was never allowed to work or drive. My dad didn't let her pursue all of her interests. Somehow they are still together.

He always encouraged me and my sister to be fully independent, and take zero crap from men. According to him our mom was brought up to be a housewife, unlike us. So harsh....
What did your mom say to you girls about all this? Did she ever comment on it to you?
 
This is my dad. He recently retired but he met my mom when they were in college and admitted he wanted a woman to stay home and take care of the children, etc. He supported my mom going to grad school though. But he would hit the wall if my sisters or I ever got involved with a man who wanted us to do the same. He wants us to have our own careers and has been clear about it. Anyway now that my youngest sister is almost through high school, my mom's gone back to work and is doing well. He's supportive but I'm sure he has his feelings about it.
 
There are black men and black male celebs who admitted that the reason they didn't want bw was because of they wanting mixed children. They vocalized it, there are many who don't.

However you can choose bw who want to be housewives and raise their children to achieve greatness. In fact you can choose educated bw who are willing to be homemakers and pass their knowledge onto their children. You don't need a former exotical groupie and/or "model and college drop out" to do that.
 
There are black men and black male celebs who admitted that the reason they didn't want bw was because of they wanting mixed children. They vocalized it, there are many who don't.

However you can choose bw who want to be housewives and raise their children to achieve greatness. In fact you can choose educated bw who are willing to be homemakers and pass their knowledge onto their children. You don't need a former exotical groupie and/or "model and college drop out" to do that.

Wow, who are these men? I've never heard any say that.

This is an interesting topic. I think it's in the wrong forum though. I'm here for the comments because I don't really have any on this topic.
 
The thing about men is, they find our vulnerability sexually compelling. They need to feel needed. That's why Chinese women used to bind their feet. That's why women wear ridiculous heels. That's why women grow out their hair and nails. All of these things are immensely impractical if you, say, have to actually do ish.

There is nothing confusing about the fact that they want their daughters to be able to stand on their own two. They ain't trynna f*** their daughters.
 
My daddy married a Michelle Obama and raised some too. I am so grateful to have him. I know the ideal (only?) respectable relationship dynamic around here is one in which the man is the head of the household. But my parents have been happily married for 35 years and have given me a great example of how successful having partnership can be. That being said I have no problem with women prefer being lead, to each their own.
 
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Wow, who are these men? I've never heard any say that.

This is an interesting topic. I think it's in the wrong forum though. I'm here for the comments because I don't really have any on this topic.
Off the top of my head lil Wayne and his no more black babies and the screen shot that was posted here about a guy from instagram fawning over his mixed toddler talking about why he has mixed babies.
 
The thing about men is, they find our vulnerability sexually compelling. They need to feel needed. That's why Chinese women used to bind their feet. That's why women wear ridiculous heels. That's why women grow out their hair and nails. All of these things are immensely impractical if you, say, have to actually do ish.

There is nothing confusing about the fact that they want their daughters to be able to stand on their own two. They ain't trynna f*** their daughters.
I think this puts it simply & succinctly... I don't think it's a deeper issue than this, imo.

eta: now why bm marry non-bw probably falls into a whole notha level of thinking that has nothing to do with the above.... i.e their own insecurities, keeping up with the white jones, colorism, it's the popular thing to do, they just fell in love, etc....
 
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