He's made more than one hint that he wants you to call him. What I don't understand is why he doesn't call you? It's strange to me. If he wants to talk to you, why not just call? Why tell you to call him? Maybe it's because, as you say, he's used to girls throwing themselves at him. How about sending a text, just like he does, suggesting he call you? That way, you've made your interest fairly clear but still it allows you to not feel desperate, as you seem to be concerned with that.
Why is going after a man viewed as being...
- Thread starter Kinkyhairlady
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He's made more than one hint that he wants you to call him. What I don't understand is why he doesn't call you? It's strange to me. If he wants to talk to you, why not just call? Why tell you to call him? Maybe it's because, as you say, he's used to girls throwing themselves at him. How about sending a text, just like he does, suggesting he call you? That way, you've made your interest fairly clear but still it allows you to not feel desperate, as you seem to be concerned with that.
ambergirl
Well-Known Member
This is a really good point. I think you're right for a lot of women. Or you get people who want to project that energy on to you because you're taking care of your own business. I am not a caretaker type at all, but I definitely get a lot of people around me who project that on me and are quite surprised to learn that's not who I am.
ETA: I'm focusing only on those that complain about an inability to do so. AND I'm a preface this by saying that I'm not considering all the many things that may be wrong with said brothers involved in the phenomenon we're all witnessing...I've noticed this as well.Why do you suppose this is?
I think its happening for a couple of reasons:
A) The earlier in his career you meet "successful brother" the better (and the easier). Its best to do it while he's still in school (which leads to a whole different set of questions and issues). Because the longer we wait, he's experienced more (with women and what they're willing to do to be with him), the more options he has and accordingly the higher his demands become.
B) The further along in our careers we get, the more difficult it becomes (I think) to turn off the "driven career woman" persona that tends not to function well in relationships. What I mean is that often times, the skills/attitudes needed to ascend the professional world can cause conflict in relationships.
C) Women are forced to make decisions regarding professional versus personal aspirations (career vs. child bearing) and more women nowadays are electing to pursuit certain levels of career success first.
D) We assume that what we've achieved is what they're looking for. And we place more emphasis on our professional and financial achievements than they do, when in reality, the "non-monetary" things become that much more important. Case in point: My SO's best friend is 35 and 6 years out of a divorce. He's decided he's ready to get married again. Dating an attractive woman, a lawyer, who owned real estate (more than 1), had an incredible career and got along well with his friends. When they stopped dating I was like "what happened - she was perfect - she had x, y and z". And his response was "what makes you think that's perfection?".
What we didn't know is that she wasn't interested in doing the things that he wanted to do. He competes in triathalons. He skis and camps. The older he gets, the less difficult finding a financially stable woman becomes so the less emphasis he places on that. E) Some of us just aren't listening. Certain types of men have told us time and time again what they're looking for - and we argue with it, we call it shallow, we say they're spitting excuses. We can say what we want...but the truth is, they're acting on these ideas that we like to disregard and we're coming up short as a result. Does it mean we should start changing to become what they want? I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't say we're clueless as to what they're looking for.
Interesting random observation: I've noticed that the men who seem to most appreciate "equally yoked" women are those who are either married or are in long term relationships. And I wonder - is it that being in a relationship with an equally yoked woman has made him appreciate her being or is that these men (men more likely to marry younger) are more attuned to appreciating equally yoked women...? Not sure.
Just some thoughts.
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ambergirl
Well-Known Member
^^^ I guess it's all in how you look at it.
I don't know any women who put her career over a relationship. Seriously. Not one! And I'm blessed to know some pretty high powered women. Not once have any of them said that pat line about how they can't get involved because they're focusing on their career. Most also don't have that "driven" career girl personality.
What more typically happens is that women are going about their merry way in life going to school, getting a job, loving life and what not....and thinking that along the way the right guy will come along. In the meantime, they get offered or pursue opportunities and promotions and so they take them. Not becuase they have some burning ambitions but because it's just the next step down the road and more money.
But for a number of reasons it doesn't happen. For one, most of the women I'm thinking of had amazing lives in their 20's and early 30's so they weren't worried about it or putting too much energy into it. Also our standards change as we get more educated and accomplished, but a lot of men (even those who are educated and accomplished) have a problem being with a woman who's their equal. But of course they almost never say that...instead you get some list of how they're not this or that when really it's their own insecurities (or desire to be the dominate partner) driving that situation.
I truly believe that getting married is not a big issue. It is easy to get married. Most of the women I know who have great careers were single until their late 30's and early 40's and then got married. Most have even had children. It's more a question of what kind of man and marriage do you want regardless of your career, age, whatever. To me, there really is no pat formula for finding a good man or getting married.
I don't know any women who put her career over a relationship. Seriously. Not one! And I'm blessed to know some pretty high powered women. Not once have any of them said that pat line about how they can't get involved because they're focusing on their career. Most also don't have that "driven" career girl personality.
What more typically happens is that women are going about their merry way in life going to school, getting a job, loving life and what not....and thinking that along the way the right guy will come along. In the meantime, they get offered or pursue opportunities and promotions and so they take them. Not becuase they have some burning ambitions but because it's just the next step down the road and more money.
But for a number of reasons it doesn't happen. For one, most of the women I'm thinking of had amazing lives in their 20's and early 30's so they weren't worried about it or putting too much energy into it. Also our standards change as we get more educated and accomplished, but a lot of men (even those who are educated and accomplished) have a problem being with a woman who's their equal. But of course they almost never say that...instead you get some list of how they're not this or that when really it's their own insecurities (or desire to be the dominate partner) driving that situation.
I truly believe that getting married is not a big issue. It is easy to get married. Most of the women I know who have great careers were single until their late 30's and early 40's and then got married. Most have even had children. It's more a question of what kind of man and marriage do you want regardless of your career, age, whatever. To me, there really is no pat formula for finding a good man or getting married.
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Umm...wait. You started out by saying that many of the successful women that you know aren't married despite having fabulous careers, homes, cars and extracurricular activities and now all of a sudden, all the successful women you know are married. I'm confused. Or did I misread something?!
I know plenty of women who prioritized careers over relationships. I am not talking about the pat line "I can't get involved right now because I'm focusing on my career" that you reference but moreso on a conscious prioritization and pursuit of growth in one area over another. When out of city/state/country opportunities arose, they took them, regardless of the impact on existing relationships. I am one such case. And please don't think I'm saying that there's anything wrong with prioritizing one over the other, because I am not.
But my experience has shown that more women are making these decisions and doing so consciously largely, because I more women believe that finding the "right" man and getting married isn't nearly as hard as some people make it out to be.
From jump, I've always believed that meeting a good man isn't nearly as impossible as LHCF would have folks believe. But that's an unpopular opinion around here... and one that you yourself have subscribed to in this thread.
snillohsss
New Member
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
I think both of your points are good and I see both sides. On one hand, we're always scratching our heads at how black women are dating men who are "beneath" them (all this KANG language lately), so I really don't think that most successful women are making these conscious career-driven decisions that make them unwilling to be available to relationships. But maybe it's that women aren't being taught to prioritize getting married over other things. I have to say that two of my friends who recently married--one was offered a position in a PhD program that she loved, and she actively chose to move to pursue a relationship with her now-husband instead. Another had lots of ambitions to work abroad, but ended up turning away from them to focus on getting married. So I can believe that that internal set of priorities can make a difference and that women have to be prepared to do that sometimes. But you first have to have a man who has real marriage intentions to make that sacrifice for. If a woman just isn't meeting the men she feels are on her level or who would marry her in due time, I don't think it's fair to automatically point to her career. Most every single woman has to get up and go work somewhere everyday. Simply being good at what she does doesn't mean she's unduly prioritizing it.
Nevertheless, I know two young women whose decisions have me puzzled, just slightly. One is early 20s, in a longterm relationship with marriage on the table, but this person is choosing to move across the country to pursue an educational program. Another acquaintence in her late 20s has a great guy and decided to move to another continent for a year. I wondered in both instances if they were really serious about those men and cared about getting married any time soon. It seems like those situations are exactly the sort that make people later say, "Yeah, I had a great boyfriend when I was younger, but I just wasn't ready to settle down yet." I get that women have ambitions, but I think that a lot of times a "me first" attitude is what is lauded and if a woman were to say, "I'll have to take a setback in my career or forego a graduate degree to make this work," then she would be derided. I think that we have to be more willing to challenge our priorities when the need arises.
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libertysince05
New Member
I think P. Diana didnt come between Charles and Camilla, Charles came between Charles and CamillaYeah....and no offense...but look at where that got her....
Prince Charles and Princess Diana had a tumultous marriage, ended up divorcing, and Charles ended up finally marrying the woman he was REALLY in love with...Camilla Bowles.
A better example (at least in that family) of a woman going after what she wants is the current queen of GB. HRH Princess Elizabeth of York went after Prince Phillip of Greece & Denmark and got it, she wrote to him for years a relationship most didnt approve (for many reasons, one being he was financially unstable
and had german connections).I agree with you
. Many women like to be flattered and enjoy being chase, men are humans too, they're not immune to flattery and the thrill of being chased! (that's why some dont call when they say they will, or play hard to get).I once was at a bar and noticed a guy looking over many times, i was fed up so i spoke to him, he was surprised to learn that i was alone he didnt approach me because he thought i was with someone else. Had i not spoken to him i would not have found out that although he was nice, we didnt have much in common, he would forever be the cute guy that kept staring
. I dont know about you guys but i think that past the ages of 20 its a bit old to be wondering or regretting not having spoken to the hot guy that was giving you the eye.
sky_blu
Well-Known Member
I don't know if this would be call pursuing but I did approach a guy before.....he worked across the street from where I worked at the time at a dry cleaner and he always come in when I was there and made it a point. I mean who gets their sweatshirt cleaned? LOL he would bring one sweatshirt to get cleaned like every week. After him oogling at me, I got tired of waiting on him, and I approached him. He liked me as suspected but I had just started dating someone else at the time and things progressed with that person faster than I thought so nothing ever happened with the guy I approached. After that when I would see him, he would still try to see if I was interested but I was too far gone by then. I dont think its desperate but I always tend to disagree with the majority. Like someone said do you! What works for others may not work for you and what works for you may not work for others.
Crystalicequeen123
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with this. Usually, if a woman is conjuring up ways to make a man notice her, or give her attention, it's USUALLY because the man is just not that interested or has not noticed her "in that way" before. I'm just saying! Not always...but typically. Trust me, if a guy has noticed you in a romantic way, you won't have to do a lot of calling/texting/talking to first. You know, I always say that there are some secrets only time can tell, and the rest is just speculation.
In other words, sometimes just waiting and observing the guy (if you see him often) will tell you all you need to know and will give you the "green light" (so to speak) whether or not you should make your interest in him MORE obvious.
So, I think it just depends on each situation. Not every man is the same, and not every scenario is the same. Some men love a more aggressive woman, whereas other men are more into "traditional" styles of courtship where the man is the one basically initiating most things. But, you have to approach each situation differently and follow suit.
I will say this: Usually your gut instinct is right. If you take a good hard honest look at the situation, you will more than likely be able to "sense" whether a man is into you or not. If your gut instinct says he is NOT all that interested in you, then follow that gut instinct! Let him come to you! If you get the vibe that this man is kind of interested , but just needs a little coaxing, then by all means give him a little more interest signals.
Whatever you do, don't do anything that goes against your values, morals, or common good sense in order to show a guy that you're interested.
Let's not kid ourselves.....you know when a guy you're NOT interested in is into you right? Well....use that same "spidey sense" to determine whether or not the guy YOU like is interested in you. Most of the time, you'll kind of "know" whether he's interested or not. Just my .02 cents worth.Agreed. And I think it just starts with being honest about our own priorities and being more accepting of the priorities of others. I don't knock a sister for moving across the country for a job, or a man - as long as in either circumstances, the decision aligns with personal goals and the chances of success are high.
I wonder if there's any correlation between a woman's willingness to attribute pursuing a man to desperation and whether or not said woman is in a relationship...
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
Funny, because the two married friends I mentioned who re-organized their lives for their SOs are the same I mentioned upthread who 1) confessed feelings to a longtime friend, and 2) kinda pushed and pulled her SO w/respect to the direction of the relationship. Maybe sometimes it's not even about chasing men, but about women being too proud to admit that they want someone.
ambergirl
Well-Known Member
My first comment was about women who are single beyond when they want to be and are having a hard time finding mates that they think are worthy....eventually most of them do get married which is my second comment....
I've heard of women who prioritize career over relationships but honestly I can't really think of one I know who moved away from an existing relationship for a career. In fact, I've seen more women tank a career (as in moving to be near him and not in a place where there are more opportunities, passing up jobs because they wanted more time for the relationship, etc.) over a relationship.
I do think meeting a "good" black men isn't easy. I suspect my definition of good may be different then others. But that's a separate question than whether or not any one will get married
What I've found is that if a woman wants to get married, they will eventually get married. Are they marrying that picture perfect man of their dreams? Usually not. Most of the women I know regardless of where they are in their career end up with a guy who's not all that close to their dream dude. Does that mean they aren't happy? Not necessarily.
gabulldawg
Well-Known Member
If you gotta do a lot of "extra", he's just not that into you. Now, of course if a woman throws herself at a man, the average man will bite. That doesn't mean he's "into" you.
Now, of course if a woman throws herself at a man, the average man will bite. That doesn't mean he's "into" you. 
lesedi
All is well with me
If you gotta do a lot of "extra", he's just not that into you.
okay!!???!!!? . we are >>>>>>>>>>>>here<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I think you and I are saying the same thing. I'm simply acknowledging that women are finding themselves increasingly faced with career vs relationship decisions and are making decisions on both sides of the equation.
Totally agreed. Meeting the right men and keeping said men are two different things. And from what I read on LHCF, it seems like most folks are struggling with the basics - meeting dudes they're actually interested in.
This has been my point from the jump.
Some women will forego career advancement for the sake of her relationship. Others will forego relationship advancement for the sake of her career. Again, I just don't see why we knock a woman's decision to consciously pursuit relationships with the same dedication and commitment we pursuit other facets of our lives. If you want a relationship, cool. If not, cool.
But I don't understand why some folks (read: women) are so quick to knock a woman's desire to put herself out there to get what she wants in one area of her life, and not in others. Oddly enough, I find its the single people who are most likely to throw the "desperation" card on another woman's attempts to find the relationship that she wants.
Have you ever heard a man say that a once-off phone call to a man is desperate behavior? Complimenting his cologne is desperate behavior? Sending a random "good morning" text? Or "hey, I had fun _____, we should do this again"? No. Its women that say these things...and usually its SINGLE women.
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Are you saying that these women are willingly acquiescing on some of their 'must haves' or simply letting go of some of the less important ideals we all at one point in our lives have had?
Stated differently; I feel like every woman has two dream dudes. There's Adonis Perfection and then there's Realistic As-good-as-it-gets.
Adonis Perfection: equally high expectations for what he is (physically speaking), who he is (his credentials - financially, spiritually, professionally) and what he's about (goals, achievements, motivations). "6 foot minimum + six pack abs + owns a home and a rental property + Ivy league or equitable "life experience" education + curly hair + bowlegged" etc.
Realistic As-Good-As-It-Gets: less emphasis placed on what he is and more emphasis placed on who he is and what he's about.
Crystalicequeen123
Well-Known Member
I agree.
And I think that sometimes the older you get and the longer you wait, you start to realize that it's not so much how good a man looks, how much money he makes, how much education he has, etc (although these things ARE important in and of themselves in their own right), but more so HOW a man treats you, HOW he makes you feel, and WHO he is as a person and WHERE he's going in life that truly matter in the end. It would be nice to have the "whole package", but most of the time we don't get our "ideal" man that we used to dream up about in our heads as teenagers. Does that mean that women who settle for less than perfection are somehow miserable/unhappy the rest of their years while married? No! I think we come to love these men more than we loved our "ideals". There are some things we should never settle on though, and I believe that's attraction. Not just physical, but mental, emotional, etc. If a woman isn't attracted to her husband, I just don't think it can work long-term. Sorry.... Same with men.
Crystalicequeen123
Well-Known Member
DirtyJerzeyGirly
Well-Known Member
@ the bold...i found this to be true, too.
Ladybelle
New Member
I am only speaking from "my" experience. I flirt, I show subtle interest but never,ever go full speed for a guy via blatant request for attention. And, it's worked for me. Every guy that I was interested in took the ball and ran with it. So, I won't be changing my methods ever.
I didn't show an ounce of interest in my ex-husband, in fact it took me a whole year to go out on a date with him after his many requests, but he never stopped trying.
I'll just be old fashioned. I like being pursued and I'm not a chaser.
I didn't show an ounce of interest in my ex-husband, in fact it took me a whole year to go out on a date with him after his many requests, but he never stopped trying.
I'll just be old fashioned. I like being pursued and I'm not a chaser.
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makeupgirl
Well-Known Member
It's not desperate OP but men were designed to be the hunters, so it's something in us that sparks off their attraction then comes to the pursuit. In my experience, going after the man leads to heartbreak. Let them come to you.
ambergirl
Well-Known Member
I would say more the second one - a more realistic assessment of what they needed in a man and a relationship for the most part. Also, to a large extent they were just ready to get married and so they were able to make that happen.
But I guess my larger point is that, if getting married is your goal, you can get married. Regardless of career, age, whatever. But marrying well (as in being in a good relationship) is a different thing and sometimes what feels "desperate" to me in these conversations is that there's so much focus on attracting a man, making a man happy, making sure you aren't turning off a man...whatever.
Just seems like women should figure out who they want to be and being open to bringing love and a man into your life (including putting yourself in situations where you're likely to meet a man). It's not what women seem to be doing, it's the way they're doing it I guess that makes come off as odd to me.
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