Why is going after a man viewed as being...

[ellebelle88]

And this is what I mean - we're concerned over whether or not to send a simple text (I'm not knocking you because I've been there). Sometimes men need a little positive reinforcement for them to get in the game...

I definitely don't think this guy needs any reinforcement to get in the game. He's an asst. basketball coach for a big university. I'm sure girls are constantly throwing themselves at him. I actually feel like I'm not "good" enough for him but he has never done anything to suggest that. He's really cool and down-to-earth.

 

[Syrah]

@mischka, why not?

I'm just afraid of him thinking that he won me over and therefore, doesn't have to put in any more work. It can be easy for guys to lose interest once they think they "have" you.

If a man thinks he won you over because you sent a text, he's an idiot...

You'll have plenty of opportunities to establish boundaries and expectations.

ETA: Men and women need to understand dating. Just because I'm sitting across the dinner table with you doesn't mean you've won anything, but 3 hours of my time.

 

[Syrah]

I definitely don't think this guy needs any reinforcement to get in the game. He's an asst. basketball coach for a big university. I'm sure girls are constantly throwing themselves at him. I actually feel like I'm not "good" enough for him but he has never done anything to suggest that. He's really cool and down-to-earth.

Just because a man is used to girls throwing themselves at him doesn't mean that another woman, YOU, might throw him off his game. Him saying that "you have my number, use it" is him asking the question "why isn't she using my number because the ladies in the past have?".

You are good enough. He's already shown you that.

And something as simple as a text should not have the power to affect our pride.

 

[Okay]

marking my spot

 

[qchelle]

ljbee If it were me, I would text him. I don't see how a text of something that yall were talking about can be misconstrued as 'I'm professing my undying love for you, take me NOW!' And even if nothing romantic pops off between the two of you, then it'd just be a friendly text.

Are people really scared of initiating a text convo? I have to constantly remind myself that LHCF is a lot more conservative than the people in my real life lol.

 

[SuchMagnificent]

This should go under "Advice that keeps you single"
I was speaking with my "crush" about this the other night and he said, "sometimes men dont know how women feel about them..we dont always catch the subtle hints, so we like a little agressiveness"
Now Im old school..I would always wait for a man to approach me, but I would always position myself to be approached..not up against the wall, but in the middle of the room...to be seen...Working the room, smiling, dancing, laughing. Depending on if Im feeling myself that night, I might make a comment to the young men, complimenting his outfit, etc..but Im not asking him for his number or anything like that..I do show interest once communication has been established but I try not to go overboard
I send thoughtful texts, and remain flirty throughout the conversation, I might even offer a plan to hang out...But the whole "taking it to the next level" has to be initated by the man, in my opinion..

 

[Syrah]

@ljbee If it were me, I would text him. I don't see how a text of something that yall were talking about can be misconstrued as 'I'm professing my undying love for you, take me NOW!' And even if nothing romantic pops off between the two of you, then it'd just be a friendly text.

Are people really scared of initiating a text convo? I have to constantly remind myself that LHCF is a lot more conservative than the people in my real life lol.

LHCF members are a lot more conservative on LHCF then they are in real life...

 

[mischka]

I show interest, but not availability (hell, because in many ways, I'm not available).

 

[CarLiTa]

It feels great to be pursued. I've experienced both scenarios with guys that I have been into: both when the guy was actively pursuing me, and then when it felt like he stopped putting in effort and I started to pick things up. Second scenario does NOT feel good. Initiating calls when you were only picking them up/returning, suggesting dates when all you had to do is accept, showing affection first when the guy was the one leading NOTTTTT a good feeling. Less anxiety when being pursued, less potential for rejection. Less strategizing, too.

And I totally agree with the poster who said that when a man really likes you, he will be overjoyed when you take initiatives for smaller gestures. Have also experienced both sides: the amorous contender who thanks you profusely for calling to say hello, and the pretend-amorous-contender one who is pretty much nonchalant. Yeah... not a good feeling.

In some cases, it very much has to do with the man's personality. It seems that some Alpha males like to be the only initiators in the relationship. Once you reciprocate, they start acting funny... that's a major red flag, too. Pretend-amorous-contenders who are all talk, and once they sense you are starting to buy into their words, start acting funny.

Really, it just feels better to be pursued. I know in my case, I feel that my femininity is heightened in those situations. As has been stated on several occasions in this thread, there is extreme value in a woman put herself in the view of the gentleman who catches her fancy. Let him see you and that you have acknowledged him, and if he catches on and approaches you, great. If he doesn't... just another day.

OP, I'd highly recommend this book: How to make someone love you forever in 90mins or less. Sounds wacky... super wacky title, yet the book truly isn't about that. I discovered it at a bookshop for $4 a few years back and liked it so much that I bought it. It's about discovering one's qualities, getting social, tips on how to enhance chemistry, how to reveal oneself to others in various degrees (low risk, medium risk, high risk), etc. It's great.

 

[ambergirl]

The question asked was why going after a man is often considered desperation. And I answered that question by saying that I thought it had a lot do with the nature of who chooses whom in traditional marriage proposals. And that as a result, many women are afraid to admit that they want said man because of the fact that in marriage, men do the initial choosing (I think this we agree on).

Where we differ is the degree to which a woman's desire to be chosen leads a woman to be more or less discerning. And I'm saying that for the sake of the OP's original question, I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not certain actions are perceived as desperate.

I believe our rearing in the black community has many of us believing that the very basic idea of wanting a relationship in the first place, is seen as a sign of weakness as women. SO that any behavior that indicates that a woman is pursuing this goal is seen as desperation amongst black women. We as black women are a lot less tolerant of actions amongst women to pursuit black men for a lot of reasons - the conflict between black men/women, the independent woman ideal that exists in the black community. So what we would consider desperate behavior, men might consider "normal".

I dunno if all that explanation was necessary, but I didn't want you to think I was being argumentative for the sake of arguing but that I was trying to make a point (albeit unclear).

I think the opposite is true. Society in general thinks there's something wrong with you if you're not in a relationship.

I mean we now have a few threads in here that basically say single women need not enter. Apparently only married women and women in "long term committed relationships" have anything valuable to say.

So this notion that black women are adamantly and militantly single is just not true. What is true is that all women but particularly black women are faced with a man pool that is just not up to snuff and so a lot of women are single for a fair portion of their life.

 

[mischka]

I think the opposite is true. Society in general thinks there's something wrong with you if you're not in a relationship.

I mean we now have a few threads in here that basically say single women need not enter. Apparently only married women and women in "long term committed relationships" have anything valuable to say.

So this notion that black women are adamantly and militantly single is just not true. What is true is that all women but particularly black women are faced with a man pool that is just not up to snuff and so a lot of women are single for a fair portion of their life.

I think in general black women are desperate for relationships particularly with all the negative reinforcement we've been getting recently. In all honesty since I've been posting here the desperation has been rubbing off on me.

 

[Syrah]

Deleted Post.

 

[mischka]

Yeah, I recognize I am prohibitively picky. I have developed an exaggerated fear of settling, and I'm trying to work on the maladaptive functioning that causes it.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

With that being said, that was Monday and I really want to send him a "hello, hows it going?" text since it's finals, but I don't know if that will look too desperate. Should I just wait on him to say something more to me or should I express an interest? I don't want him to think that I'm NOT interested.

Usually I would say no and wait a little while to see how interested he is in you before you initiate texts and such (especially since it seems like he's a "hot commodity" and is used to women probably throwing themselves at him ), BUTTTTTT....on the other hand, I think it's silly to be worrying so hard about such a little thing like sending a friendly text message.

I guess I tend to oscillate back and forth on this matter. On the one hand, I KNOW that if a guy truly is interested in me, he WILL make most (if not ALL) of the effort and will show some CLEAR cut signs that he's interested. 1) He will usually text/call/initiate some form of contact with me.

But on the OTHER hand in this scenario, it seems like he did do a little bit of initiating already, and it doesn't seem like you're some love-sick puppy dog drooling after him. So, I think in THIS situation it's safe to just send him a friendly text.

Trust me, you'll know soon enough if he's really interested (or even available/ready) for a relationship with anyone by the way he responds and whether or not he takes the initiative in the future. If I send out a friendly text to a guy and I find that he's NEVER initiating the messages, OR he's usually simply responding back to MY text messages and not calling me or texting me on his own, then I just drop him (mentally that is) and move on to other guys who ARE interested in pursuing something with me.

 

[DirtyJerzeyGirly]

Agreed. We want the Prince charming, riding on the white horse scenario so badly. But for 70% of us, thats just not how it works.

You'd be surprised how few of us actually complement men or ask them a question. "Wow, I like your tie". "That suit looks great on you" "you have a great smile". "I see you're drinking whiskey, are you familiar with or have you ever tried ______?"

I dunno - I think its fun.

Men like compliments too. That's actually one of the best ways to start a convo. Esp. if he smells good lol

 

[Syrah]

I think the opposite is true. Society in general thinks there's something wrong with you if you're not in a relationship.

I mean we now have a few threads in here that basically say single women need not enter. Apparently only married women and women in "long term committed relationships" have anything valuable to say.

So this notion that black women are adamantly and militantly single is just not true. What is true is that all women but particularly black women are faced with a man pool that is just not up to snuff and so a lot of women are single for a fair portion of their life.

I agree with where you're coming from - I mean, that was the entire premise of Sex and the City - the societal belief that come age xx, if you're not in a relationship, you are on the fringes of society.

But I think the black community, and black women in particular, have a unique perspective on and experience with relationships that has a lot to do with what happened to the black family unit, and black men during the 70's and 80's. And I think the attribution that the reason why so many of us are single is because of waning numbers of suitable male partners is a cop out for some (and this is not a small group) of us.

If you're struggling to meet the men you want, ok, thats one thing. If you're struggling to keep them around (a few calls/texts and they disappear, one 1-3 dates and they're gone), something else is going on.

Its a notion we can cling to that absolves us from the need to take any responsibility in the matter. For some of us, the reasons are clear, and they're staring us in the mirror. Whether we choose to acknowledge them is something else entirely...

Just. My. Opinion.

 

[LunadeMiel]

ljbee: I would text him: Make some reference to the way he was making you laugh. A subtle way of letting him know he was on your mind. If the feeling is mutual he will reciprocate

 

[crlsweetie912]

do we have any other "surprise followers" on the board?

 

[Bmack]

I actually see nothing wrong with a woman letting a man know she is interested or maybe even approaching him. Hell, I know women who let me chase them, but the man is not worth ish no way.

To each her own anyway.

 

[ambergirl]

I agree with where you're coming from - I mean, that was the entire premise of Sex and the City - the societal belief that come age xx, if you're not in a relationship, you are on the fringes of society.

But I think the black community, and black women in particular, have a unique perspective on and experience with relationships that has a lot to do with what happened to the black family unit, and black men during the 70's and 80's. And I think the attribution that the reason why so many of us are single is because of waning numbers of suitable male partners is a cop out for some (and this is not a small group) of us.

If you're struggling to meet the men you want, ok, thats one thing. If you're struggling to keep them around (a few calls/texts and they disappear, one 1-3 dates and they're gone), something else is going on.

Its a notion we can cling to that absolves us from the need to take any responsibility in the matter. For some of us, the reasons are clear, and they're staring us in the mirror. Whether we choose to acknowledge them is something else entirely...

Just. My. Opinion.

I hear you. And there are definitely women of all races that have relationship challenges of their own making.

But what I find interesting is that the women I know, who are college grads, entering or entrenched in a career, doing their best to establish a life for themselves by buying a home or saving money or traveling around the world have the hardest time of all finding a mate....REGARDLESS of race and even more so for black women.

So when you look in the mirror and see why you're single...it's not always negative things that look back at you.

 

[MissMasala5]

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being a little proactive, but it's all about how you go about it.

Exactly. There is no cut and dried manner, but it does depend on the individuals involved, and their chemistry. I'll add that what I think of when I hear the term "desperate" in terms of the woman pursuing the man, it's not simply about the woman being proactive. To me, that's not being desperate. I think about the woman who will engage in foolish behaviors while in pursuit. Raise your hand if you've known women like this. *raises hand* And how many are in healthy LTRs? Not a one. Act a fool, attract a fool. If you are on top of your game? You'll be alright, regardless of who made the first move.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I hear you. And there are definitely women of all races that have relationship challenges of their own making.

But what I find interesting is that the women I know, who are college grads, entering or entrenched in a career, doing their best to establish a life for themselves by buying a home or saving money or traveling around the world have the hardest time of all finding a mate....REGARDLESS of race and even more so for black women.

So when you look in the mirror and see why you're single...it's not always negative things that look back at you.

I've noticed this as well. Why do you suppose this is?

 

[aribell]

I hear you. And there are definitely women of all races that have relationship challenges of their own making.

But what I find interesting is that the women I know, who are college grads, entering or entrenched in a career, doing their best to establish a life for themselves by buying a home or saving money or traveling around the world have the hardest time of all finding a mate....REGARDLESS of race and even more so for black women.

So when you look in the mirror and see why you're single...it's not always negative things that look back at you.

I've been reconnecting with a lot of my high school class. It was an all girl's school that was predominately white, where the majority ended up being college/grad school graduates. We're all in the latter half of our 20s. Just informally surveying the class, maybe 20% are currently married and other than that, about a third are in relationships of some sort. So almost 50% of this class of educated, mostly white women in their later 20s is single/not on a discernible track to marriage. So, it's definitely not just a black thing. But at the same time, none of the black women I graduated with are married right now.

The same is true of many women I graduated from college with. I'm noticing a lot of weddings happening among my law school classmates who are closer to 30, or really, between 28 and 32. So to some extent, I think many women are just having to wait a little longer than they want; but still, the "single" status is a broad societal trend it seems.

 

[Allandra]

Do what works for you, OP. I don't think "going after a man" means you're doing all the work and the only one interested in a relationship. The same ones who would call you desperate are probably the same ones standing around for years, waiting for prince charming to just fall into their laps and wondering why he won't just appear already. Do you.

SweetTea

Amen girl.

I know a few women waiting for prince charming to just fall into their laps. Yes, seriously.

 

[ambergirl]

I've noticed this as well. Why do you suppose this is?

I think Nicole is right. People in general are marrying later. But I also think it's because most of us want a mate who is comparable in education, economic status, etc. and there are fewer and fewer men who are excelling.

Just this week there was an article on Yahoo I want to say about how officially the majority of university students are women. Since women also tend to graduate at higher rates, their will be an even great proportion of women with degrees over time.

Men are just underperforming in general which means that if being with an economic/educational equal is important for you it's just a bit more challenging because the pool is smaller.

 

[WAVES4DAYS]

desperate? I've noticed this is looked down on and folks are ready to call a lady desperate just cause she tries to get herself a man by being the initiator. I feel there would be less single women around if pride did not get in their way. You see someone you like go for it! Don't listen to others telling you will look like a fool. I've been in situations I wanted to make my feelings known to a guy and due to friends advice I don't cause I think it will make me look desperate, next thing you know that guy gets snatched up! I don't think feeling desperate is a bad thing, we are humans so what if you go after what you so desperately want. Everyone calling you desperate will feel salted when you are living the picture perfect life cause you were not afraid. I've decided to swallow some of my pride and start making moves, yes I may be rejected but it won't be the end of the world and someone is bound to return the feelings.

@ Bold: You better!

I see nothing wrong with pursuing a man, especially a good one. Some men need that extra boost!

I know plenty of women whom have passed up a good man, all because of self pride and thinking about what their friends are going to say. Later on down the line... they kick themselves in the behind for not doing so. Especially when they see how well that person and their significant other are doing.

Most men are intimidated by a woman that is well educated, beautiful and has her stuff together. In this day in time, most women are focused on education other than marriage and raising a family. Some just haven't realized that they can have the best of both worlds.

He!! we have some women that are so sharp in mind, body and soul till they cut their own d@mn self... right out of a relationship.

ETA: OP, go get your man!

 

[aribell]

As consolation to the op, I do have friends who did more than simply wait to be pursued and are currently married. One confessed feelings to a longtime friend and he reciprocated. From there, he took the ball and ran with it, but she did initiate the conversation. They're very happy together. Another friend didn't do the original initiating, but she did do a lot of pushing the relationship forward in general. They recently married as well. Oh, and a third friend ended up falling for a longtime friend and telling him and they are married now too. In that case, he had previously expressed an interest in her and she turned him down. At the same time, she did have to end up being upfront with him about her change in feelings. So I don't think it's like if you do something like that it's necessarily doomed to fail. But it will depend on the man in question and what his feelings are toward you. It never makes sense to try to make something happen, though.

 

[mischka]

http://www.forbeginners.info/dating/after-the-first-date.htm

 

[lesedi]

I mean OP, I'm not saying don't flirt or don't reciprocate interest.....I would have thought that was a given....But all this 'hunting' folks down and confessing your undying love randomly won't look good on you. The truth is, you wouldn't HAVE to do any of that, if he (or they?) liked you enough. At the least, you deserve a man who is willing to fight for you. That is NOT too much to ask.

 

[AstroQueen77]

I've noticed this as well. Why do you suppose this is?

Other than the fact that 28 is the new 18 (meaning everyone is marrying later)....I think women who are responsible...willing to do the best to take care of their needs...develop an energy of being a caretaker, therefore they somehow attract men who somehow fall short (subconsciously of course) that they will have to "work with" in some way. I only say this because I have seen this again and again in with friends, family and myself.