Why is going after a man viewed as being...

[Crystalicequeen123]

Am I missing something? How did Kate chase after Prince William? I didn't know that bit of news!

Crystalicequeen123 I was watching those royalty specials that they run and in one of them they said that She would "strategically" put herself in the areas that he was in. I know one of them was at a some sort of expedition trip in another country. Another one was the school. She sort of "stalked" him.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying stalking is a good idea. I'm just saying that she so happen to always be where he was....

Ohhhh...okay! Gotcha! Kate saw what she liked and knew how to put herself in his "eye".

I don't blame her actually. I mean really...he's a royal...he's probably seen TONS of women around him. She knew she had to put herself in his "view" so that she would have a chance.

I actually don't see anything wrong with women doing this. I don't think it's wrong for women to put themselves in the "view" of a man in order for her chances of meeting him to go up. Afterall, isn't this what Cinderella did by dressing up and going to the ball? She wanted a chance too!

I think it's a woman actually going UP to a man, asking him out, calling him first, and initiating "meetings" together that come across as desperate than just simply BEING in his same venue. I think even with that you STILL have to be cautious however. You don't want a guy thinking that you're stalking him since you're always *mysteriously* popping up everywhere that he is.

 

[SaNyjh]

Ok, I just asked my SO did he liked to be approached by women. He said no. He does like for a woman to show her interest, with maybe some eye contact and a nice smile. He says there's a difference between being showed interest and being aggressed.

 

[Syrah]

I'm going to be honest - I think a lot of it has to do with "saving face". If you subscribe to a traditional view of how proposals work, and looking solely at the actions, men do the choosing - they get down on a knee and they propose marriage to you, and you then choose to accept/deny. Its not that women have no choice in the matter - we have the final and ultimate choice - but there is no proposal without him first making a choice. So pursuing a man means you're not being chosen by said man and thats a pill many don't want to swallow.

And so you have women, who are at home truly wanting to get out and date, but aren't doing so because the notion of pursuing a man is looked down upon by other women who are being chosen, regardless of the level of pursuit that one engages in.

Personally, I think if we want to turn the tide of black relationships and start building a community of strong partnerships, there is going to be a generation of US (women) who are going to be a little more proactive in our mating/dating. And I don't think its anything to be ashamed of. Its like training a dog - sometimes the "right" man needs a little positive reinforcement and encouraging. Pavlov's dogs - make him drool.

 

[mischka]

I think there is an extremely conservative notion being expressed in this thread - on the one hand I totally agree with the idea that a woman should not do the pursuing and should not aggressively express interest. BUT, there are some comments that seem to indicate that the woman should be completely passive. Letting him chase you doesn't have to mean that you are totally passive. That's how you end up in relationships with every Tom, Harry, and Weirdo - just because he wants you doesn't mean he should get you. And I feel a lot of women fall into that trap because they're being "chased" and he obviously likes you to do that.

I think proactive is a good term to use. Me personally, I don't see being proactive in the early stages of dating as a bad thing just because to me, us dating doesn't mean we have to or are heading towards a relationship. I want to know that I WANT to choose you as much as you want to choose me. So, if I go out with a guy one time, and the next weekend I'm the one who brings up going out again - "wanna grab drinks this weekend?" - I don't see that as me pursuing. Because for all I know, I may decide after that second date that I'm actually not even interested in going any further.

I don't think the "pursuing", "chasing" rules apply before you are actually in a relationship. Those first couple dates are necessary just to see where you both stand on the issue. AFTER you decide "ok, I want to be his girlfriend" then you fall back and let him take the lead. But just going out a few times, it doesn't matter to me because it may not even go anywhere. If chicks are sitting home with a guy they just met, silently hoping he'll ask her out but not daring to be assertive about it, then that's a problem. Not only because it's silly, but because she has already decided she wants to push the relationship already when there is unlikely to even be any evidence that she should have chosen him as a potential partner, so why are you jumping the gun already?

 

[Syrah]

I'm going to assume that since this is the relationship thread, you care about one day being in a long term relationship (if not, oh well).

I don't understand why we as women are so encouraging of each other pursuing our careers, our educations, our spiritual/religious salvation, but not with men. With men, "let him come to you", "let him do the work", "let him pursuit". But in reality, and especially in the black community, the right men don't just show up on our doorsteps, professing undying love and affection. In some places they're hard to find. In others, the competition is fierce. And at a basic level, some men need to be coached. Others need more positive reinforcement and encouragement. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Someone brought up Kate Middleton. Diana Spencer pursued Prince Charles. She pursued the mess out of that man and went out of her way to try and find out where he was going to be and BE THERE. If its what you want and its something you believe you can have, why not?!?

Its possible to "pursuit" a man and still have him be the one to ask for your number. Its possible to "pursuit" a man and still have him be the one to ask for and seek dates. Pursuit doesn't mean you're getting on one knee and asking him for marriage.

Personally, I say go for it. Don't sacrifice your pride or well being. But don't be afraid to let him know that you're interested, that you want to get to know him and walk the walk with him.

 

[Nina_deF]

Some of you guys write like it's the stone age.

"It's in the MANS nature"
"If a man wants you he will approach you".

It USED to be "in the womans nature" to be barefoot and pregnant by the stove.
Sheesh.

If I notice a man I'm interested in, I have no problem approaching, why would I?
I don't sit around waiting to be approached or wanted.

Now some men are ridiculous, trying to convince me that I should be interested in him, calling and nagging.
I don't do that.
If I am shot down (IF), I smile and go on my merry way.
No embaressment, too many fish in the sea.

Maybe it's an American thing.
The American way seems like a lot of hard work to me.
I don't get it.

 

[mischka]

I'm going to assume that since this is the relationship thread, you care about one day being in a long term relationship (if not, oh well).

I think there's a difference between wanting to be in a LTR and wanting to be in a LTR with any/every man you meet.This is relevant to the whole concept of choosing and being chosen.

 

[libertysince05]

I'm going to be honest - I think a lot of it has to do with "saving face". If you subscribe to a traditional view of how proposals work, and looking solely at the actions, men do the choosing - they get down on a knee and they propose marriage to you, and you then choose to accept/deny. Its not that women have no choice in the matter - we have the final and ultimate choice - but there is no proposal without him first making a choice. So pursuing a man means you're not being chosen by said man and thats a pill many don't want to swallow.

And so you have women, who are at home truly wanting to get out and date, but aren't doing so because the notion of pursuing a man is looked down upon by other women who are being chosen, regardless of the level of pursuit that one engages in.

Personally, I think if we want to turn the tide of black relationships and start building a community of strong partnerships, there is going to be a generation of US (women) who are going to be a little more proactive in our mating/dating. And I don't think its anything to be ashamed of. Its like training a dog - sometimes the "right" man needs a little positive reinforcement and encouraging. Pavlov's dogs - make him drool.

I completly agree with all this especially the bolded

I'm going to assume that since this is the relationship thread, you care about one day being in a long term relationship (if not, oh well).

I don't understand why we as women are so encouraging of each other pursuing our careers, our educations, our spiritual/religious salvation, but not with men. With men, "let him come to you", "let him do the work", "let him pursuit". But in reality, and especially in the black community, the right men don't just show up on our doorsteps, professing undying love and affection. In some places they're hard to find. In others, the competition is fierce. And at a basic level, some men need to be coached. Others need more positive reinforcement and encouragement. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Someone brought up Kate Middleton. Diana Spencer pursued Prince Charles. She pursued the mess out of that man and went out of her way to try and find out where he was going to be and BE THERE. If its what you want and its something you believe you can have, why not?!?

Its possible to "pursuit" a man and still have him be the one to ask for your number. Its possible to "pursuit" a man and still have him be the one to ask for and seek dates. Pursuit doesn't mean you're getting on one knee and asking him for marriage.

Personally, I say go for it. Don't sacrifice your pride or well being. But don't be afraid to let him know that you're interested, that you want to get to know him and walk the walk with him.

Agreed again. In fact if i like something i go for it, the worst that can happen is him saying no!

Some of you guys write like it's the stone age.

"It's in the MANS nature"
"If a man wants you he will approach you".

It USED to be "in the womans nature" to be barefoot and pregnant by the stove.
Sheesh.

If I notice a man I'm interested in, I have no problem approaching, why would I?
I don't sit around waiting to be approached or wanted.

Now some men are ridiculous, trying to convince me that I should be interested in him, calling and nagging.
I don't do that.
If I am shot down (IF), I smile and go on my merry way.
No embaressment, too many fish in the sea.

Maybe it's an American thing.
The American way seems like a lot of hard work to me.
I don't get it.

Agree 100%...

 

[Syrah]

Some of you guys write like it's the stone age.

"It's in the MANS nature"
"If a man wants you he will approach you".

It USED to be "in the womans nature" to be barefoot and pregnant by the stove.
Sheesh.

If I notice a man I'm interested in, I have no problem approaching, why would I?
I don't sit around waiting to be approached or wanted.

Now some men are ridiculous, trying to convince me that I should be interested in him, calling and nagging.
I don't do that.
If I am shot down (IF), I smile and go on my merry way.
No embaressment, too many fish in the sea.

Maybe it's an American thing.
The American way seems like a lot of hard work to me.
I don't get it.

Agreed. We want the Prince charming, riding on the white horse scenario so badly. But for 70% of us, thats just not how it works.

You'd be surprised how few of us actually complement men or ask them a question. "Wow, I like your tie". "That suit looks great on you" "you have a great smile". "I see you're drinking whiskey, are you familiar with or have you ever tried ______?"

I dunno - I think its fun.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I don't think the "pursuing", "chasing" rules apply before you are actually in a relationship. Those first couple dates are necessary just to see where you both stand on the issue. AFTER you decide "ok, I want to be his girlfriend" then you fall back and let him take the lead. But just going out a few times, it doesn't matter to me because it may not even go anywhere. If chicks are sitting home with a guy they just met, silently hoping he'll ask her out but not daring to be assertive about it, then that's a problem. Not only because it's silly, but because she has already decided she wants to push the relationship already when there is unlikely to even be any evidence that she should have chosen him as a potential partner, so why are you jumping the gun already?

While I don't advocate women sitting idly at home twidling their fingers, I also feel that being TOO aggressive (especially before you even know how a guy feels about you) CAN be detrimental. I actually think chasing/pursuing DOES apply to people NOT in a relationship. If the person were in a relationship already, the woman wouldn't have to chase the guy!

I understand what you are saying, and agree to a point... But I think what the OP was talking about was women who are interested in a man from afar and want to "get something rolling" with him, get to know him and end up pursuing him or initiating contact with him first. If you're already going on dates 1 and 2 with a man, or he's kicking it at your house, 9 times out of 10 HE's probably the one who asked you out and has already shown an interest in you from the beginning. Yes, I don't advocate a woman just sitting on her couch with the man hoping he'll make a move or whatever. But when it comes to guys who are "just friends" or who are strangers, I really do think it's best for the woman to show interest in a feminine way and see if he responds before chasing him down and showing "masculine energy" by be too assertive w/her interest.

Someone brought up Kate Middleton. Diana Spencer pursued Prince Charles. She pursued the mess out of that man and went out of her way to try and find out where he was going to be and BE THERE. If its what you want and its something you believe you can have, why not?!?

Yeah....and no offense...but look at where that got her.... Prince Charles and Princess Diana had a tumultous marriage, ended up divorcing, and Charles ended up finally marrying the woman he was REALLY in love with...Camilla Bowles.


I agree that we shouldn't just sit around waiting, hoping and praying for a man to come, but I think that there are ways to SHOW a man that you might be interested and open to his pursuit that do not involve a woman behaving in desperate ways and making a mockery of herself.

I didn't think this way until I started talking with a lot of guy friends, and you'd be SURPRISED at the kinds of things THEY consider to be "pursuing" from a woman.

Bottom line however: If a man likes you, then NOTHING you do will be seen as too "aggressive", "desperate", or "pushy". If a man DOESN'T like you however, then any little thing you do could be seen as "desperate". Go figure! So, that's why I say....always be nice, open and friendly, but at the same time...figure out where HIS interest level is on the spectrum. Because once you figure THAT out, then you can proceed and get away with murder if his interest/attraction is high lol.

 

[Syrah]

I think there's a difference between wanting to be in a LTR and wanting to be in a LTR with any/every man you meet.This is relevant to the whole concept of choosing and being chosen.

I actually think that trying to convince yourself that relationships don't matter to you, when they do, is more relevant to this conversation.

There are a lot of women on this board who are tired of being single and want a relationship but are afraid to admit it not because of what men will think but because of what OTHER WOMEN will think. Because women are so quick to throw around the desperation card. There are so many behaviors that we as women consider "desperate" that men consider normal. We believe calling to say "hello, how are you?" is doing too much while he believes its a nice gesture. We will sit and play dumb games about not calling back within a certain period of time - meanwhile, he's on the phone talking to the girl who is willing to return his phone call within an hour and isn't playing the 48 hour rule. Making him a little something to eat and dropping it off for him at lunch is doing way too much. But sleeping with the same dude? Oh ok. Sometimes I think we as women are our own worst enemies.

Our "independent woman mantra" is getting in the way of our ability to seal lasting relationships. And we're convincing each other to not even in try. WHY???? What's wrong with wanting to be a girlfriend/wife/mother and actively pursuing it? Wanting a man in your life, IMO, does not make one desperate. How one goes about it and what one is willing to tolerate in pursuit of that goal is what makes one desperate.

We go out and pursuit everything else. I don't know why men are left out of this equation...

 

[Mortons]

Yeah....and no offense...but look at where that got her.... Prince Charles and Princess Diana had a tumultous marriage, ended up divorcing, and Charles ended up finally marrying the woman he was REALLY in love with...Camilla Bowles.

And that will be Prince W. and Katie in 7 years with Rosé Farquar. He broke up with Kate twice to pursue Rose. She was his first love.

I don't think that a woman should sit idly by twiddling her thumbs waiting for a man, but I do not think that a profession of love or attraction, and screaming available is necessary. Dropping a hint or two is fine, most men will get the hint and pursue if they are interested. If he doesn't get the hint, he may be rather daft, and you don't want that anyway.

 

[mischka]

.

We are in agreement.

I actually think that trying to convince yourself that relationships don't matter to you, when they do, is more relevant to this conversation.

There are a lot of women on this board who are tired of being single and want a relationship but are afraid to admit it not because of what men will think but because of what OTHER WOMEN will think. Because women are so quick to throw around the desperation card. There are so many behaviors that we as women consider "desperate" that men consider normal. We believe calling to say "hello, how are you?" is doing too much while he believes its a nice gesture. We will sit and play dumb games about not calling back within a certain period of time - meanwhile, he's on the phone talking to the girl who is willing to return his phone call within an hour and isn't playing the 48 hour rule. Making him a little something to eat and dropping it off for him at lunch is doing way too much. But sleeping with the same dude? Oh ok. Sometimes I think we as women are our own worst enemies.

Our "independent woman mantra" is getting in the way of our ability to seal lasting relationships. And we're convincing each other to not even in try. WHY???? What's wrong with wanting to be a girlfriend/wife/mother and actively pursuing it? Wanting a man in your life, IMO, does not make one desperate. How one goes about it and what one is willing to tolerate in pursuit of that goal is what makes one desperate.

We go out and pursuit everything else. I don't know why men are left out of this equation...

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about but it isn't relevant to my point which was directed at the original topic of this thread. What you're saying I don't think has much to do with picking (pursuing) men. I don't know how you equate "lying about wanting a man" to having much to do with that.

If a woman is more concerned with making sure she has the right mate, she is likely to be more concerned with choosing. Since she chooses which mate is appropriate for her, she may be more likely to initiate interactions with men.

If a woman is more concerned with being chosen, she may be likely to accept courtship from any/every man who approaches her. Since her main priority is being chosen, she will not initiate interactions.

This is the point I'm trying to make. If you are more/ONLY concerned with being chosen, imo it logically follows that you are less discerning about making sure you end up with the right partner.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

^^I agree that women should not feel ashamed for wanting to be a wife/mother and have a SERIOUS relationship with a man.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting this. People's values (if you can even call them that ) have unfortunately become so degraded and SKEWED, that now you're looked at as weird/strange if you want to actually settle down and have a family!

It really is a shame. Seems like these days homosexuals are the ones wanting to actually settle down and get married, whereas heterosexuals are just fine playing the field and dating around "forever" without actually ever settling down! What's up with that??

But seriously though, if a woman wants a serious relationship and kids in the future, she shouldn't waste her time w/men who don't have that goal in their minds for the near future. There's nothing worse than a woman wasting her precious time with a man who is not even thinking about marriage with her eventually down the line.

 

[mischka]

Syrah I mean I agree with your general point that pursuing a man (to a certain extent) shouldn't be seen as desperate, but all that every woman wants to be in a relationship and you're in denial stuff, noooooooooo. Can I ask how old you are?

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

And that will be Prince W. and Katie in 7 years with Rosé Farquar. He broke up with Kate twice to pursue Rose. She was his first love.

I don't think that a woman should sit idly by twiddling her thumbs waiting for a man, but I do not think that a profession of love or attraction, and screaming available is necessary. Dropping a hint or two is fine, most men will get the hint and pursue if they are interested. If he doesn't get the hint, he may be rather daft, and you don't want that anyway.

Oh wow....

I don't know the story of Prince W. and Rose Farquar, but all I know is that if a man has to choose between a woman who chose HIM and a woman HE chose, more than likely he will still have feelings for the woman who he wanted to choose.

 

[*5+5]

I can't with a good conscious pursue a man it's just not for me and I would prolly make a big mess of it and look beyond crazy.

However, some women can do it, I think some women that have the gift of baggin’ have free range to do it however they want and have great results due to their “it” factor.

My BFF can do it just fine and have dudes out there. But, I wouldn’t suggest it unless your game and experience with this is tight! Real tight!

 

[Kinkyhairlady]

I wish I created a poll because there is so much differences of opinions in here. Great advice though! Honestly I feel like when you reach a certain age and you are not getting the kind of man you want to approach you than you should put yourself out there. Now I don't mean being all agressive but there is nothing wrong with approaching a man and saying hello what's your name? If the guy is still not getting it yes move on but to be smiling and making eye contact does not work. A lot of men have told me I look mean and stuck up and I am not. My comment about desperate not being a bad thing simply means when we desperately want a house, a car anything we go hard to try to obtain it. Life is short and I am not going to be sitting around for a man to come to me if I see him. Yes maybe he does not notice me so I introduce myself to him and spark up a conversation.

 

[Syrah]

@Syrah I mean I agree with your general point that pursuing a man (to a certain extent) shouldn't be seen as desperate, but all that every woman wants to be in a relationship and you're in denial stuff, noooooooooo. Can I ask how old you are?

You may have misunderstood me (or that I may have been unclear) I'm saying that I don't see anything wrong with a woman admitting that she wants a relationship. All women shouldn't want to be in relationships, but I don't knock women that do want it.

I may not have been clear.

 

[MzLady78]

And that will be Prince W. and Katie in 7 years with Rosé Farquar. He broke up with Kate twice to pursue Rose. She was his first love.

I don't think that a woman should sit idly by twiddling her thumbs waiting for a man, but I do not think that a profession of love or attraction, and screaming available is necessary. Dropping a hint or two is fine, most men will get the hint and pursue if they are interested. If he doesn't get the hint, he may be rather daft, and you don't want that anyway.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being a little proactive, but it's all about how you go about it.

Now I'll keep it 100% and say that I did tell my current friend that I had a crush on him but 1) I was drunk and 2) I knew there was an attraction because we'd been watching each other from across the room for months. But as it turned out, there was a major reason that he hadn't approached me in all that time and probably wouldn't have if I hadn't said something.

Ultimately, do what works for you.

 

[mischka]

I wish I created a poll because there is so much differences of opinions in here. Great advice though! Honestly I feel like when you reach a certain age and you are not getting the kind of man you want to approach you than you should put yourself out there. Now I don't mean being all agressive but there is nothing wrong with approaching a man and saying hello what's your name? If the guy is still not getting it yes move on but to be smiling and making eye contact does not work. A lot of men have told me I look mean and stuck up and I am not. My comment about desperate not being a bad thing simply means when we desperately want a house, a car anything we go hard to try to obtain it. Life is short and I am not going to be sitting around for a man to come to me if I see him. Yes maybe he does not notice me so I introduce myself to him and spark up a conversation.

I think that's too forward. If I want to approach a man I do it coyly. Like once I was waiting for the train and there was a guy pacing around next to me. They made an announcement that both directions would run from the same platform. I said, "that's this one right?" and we laughed. Or I was out with a friend with a group of people that I didn't know. A guy sat next to me and I asked him a question about his tattoo. I do think it's better not to be so direct, leave a little to the imagination.

I mostly view dating as trying to meet a guy that I like and THEN I can consider whether or not you are someone I want to be with. That's why when I initiate things with men it's from a friendly, take it or leave it, we don't have to exchange numbers or do anything more than chat (unless you ask) kind of perspective. I don't particularly co-opt the "I want a man/LTR, so I'm going after you" point of view. Or, more accurately, initiating contact under any approach with the specific purpose of "I want to move this along somewhere." I can see how that could be seen as desperate.

But that's just what works for me, because I think there are different things that I need to know, and consider important in dating when it comes to a relationships than a lot of other women. I consider dating "dating." It seems to me a lot of people are thinking of men in other terms than that.

 

[ellebelle88]

I have a question for all the posters in this thread. I am taking a class with this guy. My first time seeing him, I thought he was really nice, sexy, nice body but I never really took an interest in him simply because I go to a PWI and it seems that Black guys are only interested in white/asian/hispanic women. So I just do myself a favor and don't even try to talk to any of them.

Anyways, me and this guy have had a couple of convos, nothing serious. He needed to borrow a book for class and we exchanged numbers so he could get the book one day. He picked up the book, we had a pretty cool convo, thought he was really handsome but I didn't make it out to be anymore than that, plus I was rushing!

Fast-forward to this past Monday. We were giving group presentations in our final class meeting for the semester. During one of the breaks, he returned the book to me and asked me why I always acted so distant. He was like I could use his number at least, but I told him I lost his number because I had gotten a new phone (true). A couple minutes later, he text me to give me his number during class and we started texting back and forth the entire class period and we were in class for 5 hours.

He had me cracking up. I ended up leaving early but I sent him a text after I left saying that he did a good job on his presentation and I enjoyed it. His last message was: "Thanks for the love. Let's keep in touch tho." I said of course and wished him a good nght.

With that being said, that was Monday and I really want to send him a "hello, hows it going?" text since it's finals, but I don't know if that will look too desperate. Should I just wait on him to say something more to me or should I express an interest? I don't want him to think that I'm NOT interested.

 

[Syrah]

We are in agreement.



I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about but it isn't relevant to my point which was directed at the original topic of this thread. What you're saying I don't think has much to do with picking (pursuing) men. I don't know how you equate "lying about wanting a man" to having much to do with that.

If a woman is more concerned with making sure she has the right mate, she is likely to be more concerned with choosing. Since she chooses which mate is appropriate for her, she may be more likely to initiate interactions with men.

If a woman is more concerned with being chosen, she may be likely to accept courtship from any/every man who approaches her. Since her main priority is being chosen, she will not initiate interactions.

This is the point I'm trying to make. If you are more/ONLY concerned with being chosen, imo it logically follows that you are less discerning about making sure you end up with the right partner.

The question asked was why going after a man is often considered desperation. And I answered that question by saying that I thought it had a lot do with the nature of who chooses whom in traditional marriage proposals. And that as a result, many women are afraid to admit that they want said man because of the fact that in marriage, men do the initial choosing (I think this we agree on).

Where we differ is the degree to which a woman's desire to be chosen leads a woman to be more or less discerning. And I'm saying that for the sake of the OP's original question, I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not certain actions are perceived as desperate.

I believe our rearing in the black community has many of us believing that the very basic idea of wanting a relationship in the first place, is seen as a sign of weakness as women. SO that any behavior that indicates that a woman is pursuing this goal is seen as desperation amongst black women. We as black women are a lot less tolerant of actions amongst women to pursuit black men for a lot of reasons - the conflict between black men/women, the independent woman ideal that exists in the black community. So what we would consider desperate behavior, men might consider "normal".

I dunno if all that explanation was necessary, but I didn't want you to think I was being argumentative for the sake of arguing but that I was trying to make a point (albeit unclear).

 

[MzLady78]

ljbee, nothing wrong with that, IMO.

 

[mischka]

^^^I wouldn't do it.

 

[MzLady78]

^^^I wouldn't do it.

And around and around we go!

 

[ellebelle88]

mischka, why not?

I'm just afraid of him thinking that he won me over and therefore, doesn't have to put in any more work. It can be easy for guys to lose interest once they think they "have" you.

 

[Syrah]

I have a question for all the posters in this thread. I am taking a class with this guy. My first time seeing him, I thought he was really nice, sexy, nice body but I never really took an interest in him simply because I go to a PWI and it seems that Black guys are only interested in white/asian/hispanic women. So I just do myself a favor and don't even try to talk to any of them.

Anyways, me and this guy have had a couple of convos, nothing serious. He needed to borrow a book for class and we exchanged numbers so he could get the book one day. He picked up the book, we had a pretty cool convo, thought he was really handsome but I didn't make it out to be anymore than that, plus I was rushing!

Fast-forward to this past Monday. We were giving group presentations in our final class meeting for the semester. During one of the breaks, he returned the book to me and asked me why I always acted so distant. He was like I could use his number at least, but I told him I lost his number because I had gotten a new phone (true). A couple minutes later, he text me to give me his number during class and we started texting back and forth the entire class period and we were in class for 5 hours.

He had me cracking up. I ended up leaving up early but I sent him a text after I left saying that he did a good job on his presentation and I enjoyed it. His last message was: "Thanks for the love. Let's keep in touch tho." I said of course and wished him a good nght.

With that being said, that was Monday and I really want to send him a "hello, hows it going?" text since it's finals, but I don't know if that will look too desperate. Should I just wait on him to say something more to me or should I express an interest? I don't want him to think that I'm NOT interested.

Then text him. Reference what ya'll were joking about. Tell him he owes you a book or something.

And this is what I mean - we're concerned over whether or not to send a simple text (I'm not knocking you because I've been there). Sometimes men need a little positive reinforcement for them to get in the game...

 

[mischka]

The question asked was why going after a man is often considered desperation. And I answered that question by saying that I thought it had a lot do with the nature of who chooses whom in traditional marriage proposals. And that as a result, many women are afraid to admit that they want said man because of the fact that in marriage, men do the initial choosing (I think this we agree on).

Where we differ is the degree to which a woman's desire to be chosen leads a woman to be more or less discerning. And I'm saying that for the sake of the OP's original question, I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not certain actions are perceived as desperate.

I believe our rearing in the black community has many of us believing that the very basic idea of wanting a relationship in the first place, is seen as a sign of weakness as women. SO that any behavior that indicates that a woman is pursuing this goal is seen as desperation amongst black women. We as black women are a lot less tolerant of actions amongst women to pursuit black men for a lot of reasons - the conflict between black men/women, the independent woman ideal that exists in the black community. So what we would consider desperate behavior, men might consider "normal".

I dunno if all that explanation was necessary, but I didn't want you to think I was being argumentative for the sake of arguing but that I was trying to make a point (albeit unclear).

No, I see what you're saying, and I agree with you. I do think we are mostly saying the same thing, just to different extents/from different foundations. For example, I am hesitant to do relationships and have something of a problem with commitment because I'm not comfortable being that vulnerable, and being that obligated to another person. I place a heavier emphasis on choosing the right mate because I don't want to let my guard down with someone who is only going to abuse that or take advantage of that from an insincere place. I have to feel sure its the right person before I can do that. So in a way it is related to this whole idea of being strong/not vulnerable, but not in a way where I'm concerned about being desperate. On a side note, when I was growing up I did have to have a whole eye-to-eye with this notion that it wasn't allowed for me to be weak or vulnerable, and coming to realize that I didn't want to be strong all the time or want to feel like I had to be. I agree that the whole independent woman thing needs to go. At the same time I still have issues with commitment

Being super discerning works for me because it's what I need to feel secure in a relationship - I have to be certain that I didn't choose wrongly. However, I know for other women they aren't as picky because they don't need a man to be the right one in that way. It wouldn't work for me and I wouldn't advocate it as a dating philosophy, but I understand the reasoning theoretically.

 

[mischka]

@mischka, why not?

I'm just afraid of him thinking that he won me over and therefore, doesn't have to put in any more work. It can be easy for guys to lose interest once they think they "have" you.

If it were me, I wouldn't feel the interaction up to that point established that he was interested in me romantically. That all sounds more or less friendsy type stuff to me (now obviously I wasn't there so the mood may have been different irl but that's what it sounds like written as it is). So I wouldn't text because I would feel like if he wanted to maybe pursue something he'd follow up and be more explicit about it and prior to that happening, I wouldn't feel it necessary to make the first move.

I'm not saying I'd never text first, it goes on a case by case basis. But in this case I think I wouldn't feel invested enough to bother.