The View Talking About Good Hair

[Celestial]

^^^ yup, bingo. This is about people buying into A norm (which numeraically isn't) THE norm. Well let's just wait until the Chinese and Indians take over the world (and it's gonna happen too). We'll all next start trying to look like them

I'm the one who brought up Jews and dying their hair blonde. Yup.

(PS...I didn't forget about the Africans and the fold...nor Pacific Islanders, but the Chinese were enough to cinch my point! )

Give me a break with this please. A tiny fraction of Africans have a fold, almost all Africans don't have a fold. Folds are not the norm in the world. It's more common amongst Asians than other groups, but within the whole world it is not common.

 

[jamaraa]

I don't have that answer

But, ignoring issues and hoping they go away has been the solution so far for others.

I don't think the issue has been ignored, people sure talk about it enough. I don't think there's a solution to "fix" an entire group of people.

 

[Celestial]

They're all trying to achieve a certain Euro ideal. Yt women just don't have to alter themselves as much as the others. You can throw in Asian eyelid surgeries, Arab nose jobs, African skin lightening, etc. Can you point to a mass of Euros going to extreme lengths to look Asian or African?

Almost no group has to alter themselves as much to fit into the norm because they already have the 'norm'. It is mainly black people who does not fit into the norm. I don't see Asians and Arabs trying to look "white." Arabs on the largest scale are white and Asians already fit in with whiteness with their skin color and no hang ups on hair issues such as having long flowing hair. I don't see black women going to EXTREME lengths to look white or european.

(Don't forget many African groups who have "the fold." The "norm" argument cannot explain the dominance of Euro standards)

Majority of Africans do not have folds. Only a tiny fraction of Africans have a fold and "the fold" is still not the norm when considering the whole world. The 'norm' argument explain many things and it is not the dominance of 'euro' standards. These 'euro' standards are common throughout the world and cross every continent except sub-sahara Africa and tiny populations of asia and the south pacific. People don't have to alter their look to look more 'euro'. Most people already carry the "euro" look. Black people are the ones who don't so it is us who are different in that special way.

 

[jamaraa]

Give me a break with this please. A tiny fraction of Africans have a fold, almost all Africans don't have a fold. Folds are not the norm in the world. It's more common amongst Asians than other groups, but within the whole world it is not common.

No you give me a break w/ all this self hating nonsense. Between this and the WL thread, you're coming off like you have issues that you need to "convice" other are "truths". Maybe it's not OTHERS who are "abnormal". Who really cares about all this anyway? We're here to discuss OUR hair and its needs, not "other people". All you have to say is how Blacks are so "different" and all that, ok fine....but what does that have to do w/ OUR purpose here? Zero.

 

[Raspberry]

Ya know I always say.. if the majority of black women's hair looked good on a regular basis, these good hair/bad hair, relaxer/natural discussions wouldn't happen that much. There wouldnt' be many media discussions either. Healthy hair practices would solve a lot of the insecurity issues black women have about their hair...because nice looking hair goes a long way for a woman.

 

[Celestial]

No you give me a break w/ all this self hating nonsense. Maybe it's not others who are "abnormal". Who really cares about all this anyway? We're here to discuss OUR hair and its needs, not "other people". All you have to say is how Blacks are so "different" and all that, ok fine....but what does that have to do w/ OUR purpose here? Zero.

Not one person in this thread said anything about anyone being abnormal. I have not seen any self-hating in this thread.

 

[jamaraa]

Not one person in this thread said anything about anyone being abnormal. I have not seen any self-hating in this thread.

Oh really now?! I seem to recall several posts talking about Blacks being "abnormal" in terms of their looks and the traits which are associated w/ them (ie our hair, the "elaborate styles" and WW knowing what looks best on them, etc) as being such hence our desire for "normal" straight hair. I did not imagine such posts. You wrote several of them yourself.

 

[Celestial]

Ya know I always say.. if the majority of black women's hair looked good on a regular basis, these good hair/bad hair, relaxer/natural discussions wouldn't happen that much. There wouldnt' be many media discussions either. Healthy hair practices would solve a lot of the insecurity issues black women have about their hair...because nice looking hair goes a long way for a woman.

Thank you for acknowledging this. That is why Relaxers, Texturizers, Jherri Curls was made to "fix" black people's hair. It is black people who don't know how to care for their hair and I don't think our ancestors were doing any better when they were in Africa. Black people straightening their hair comes from black people because it is black people who feel they need to fit into the norm and look "right." It is a weak argument that white people got us straightening our hair to fit their beauty. It is black people own inferiority complex that got them straightening their hair and those voices in their head telling to do it to look more white. Black people just don't know how to do their hair and they keep it looking unusual and a hot mess. Point Blank.

 

[SVT]

I expect to hear him say on every interview how beautiful black hair really is.

but he has not said it once...

Is this true? Chris hasn't said anything nice about our hair in all these interviews? Not in the movie either?

 

[Celestial]

Oh really now?! I seem to recall several posts talking about Blacks being "abnormal" in terms of their looks and the traits which are associated w/ them (ie our hair, the "elaborate styles" and WW knowing what looks best on them, etc) as being such hence our desire for "normal" straight hair. I did not imagine such posts. You wrote several of them yourself.

Then you are delusional, paranoid and hallucinating. Not one person said anything about black women being "abnormal."

 

[msa]

Is this true? Chris hasn't said anything nice about our hair in all these interviews? Not in the movie either?

Not once has he said that our hair, how it grows out of our heads, is beautiful. Not one time.

 

[Celestial]

Not once has he said that our hair, how it grows out of our heads, is beautiful. Not one time.

Why do he have to say it? Do you have low-self esteem. He did say in so many ways that we do not need the relaxer; we do not need the braids, we do not need the weaves. I think that says a lot. I will see the movie this weekend.

 

[Nayna]

What is a fold? Are we talking about our eyes?

ETA: I think if he's going to end his documentary with "We shouldn't relax our kids hair." Then it should be said. If his daughter is feeling like her hair isn't good and why can't she have her friends hair then he should be reinforcing that our hair is beautiful natural. It's beautiful relaxed as well but the point is his daughter doesn't have a relaxer.

 

[DeenIsFirst]

Thank you for acknowledging this. That is why Relaxers, Texturizers, Jherri Curls was made to "fix" black people's hair. It is black people who don't know how to care for their hair and I don't think our ancestors were doing any better when they were in Africa. Black people straightening their hair comes from black people because it is black people who feel they need to fit into the norm and look "right." It is a weak argument that white people got us straightening our hair to fit their beauty. It is black people own inferiority complex that got them straightening their hair and those voices in their head telling to do it to look more white. Black people just don't know how to do their hair and they keep it looking unusual and a hot mess. Point Blank.

I was gonna leave this thread alone, but in regard to the bold above, please, please do your research before making such comments.

Our ancestors had the BEST hair practices while in Africa. Just do a search on native African hairstyles from the past and now. They are absolutely beautiful in style and in all textures.
Here is an example:
http://blackgirllonghair.blogspot.com/search/label/african style week

It wasnt until Blacks were dragged over to other countries on slave ships without access to proper hair tools that they lost some of their ability to deal with their hair they way they were able to before. We (African Americans) lost A LOT of our beautiful history.

 

[FluffyRed]

I was gonna leave this thread alone, but in regard to the bold above, please, please do your research before making such comments.

Our ancestors had the BEST hair practices while in Africa. Just do a search on native African hairstyles from the past and now. They are absolutely beautiful in style and in all textures.
Here is an example:
http://blackgirllonghair.blogspot.com/search/label/african style week

It wasnt until Blacks were dragged over to other countries on slave ships without access to proper hair tools that they lost some of their ability to deal with their hair they way they were able to before. We (African Americans) lost A LOT of our beautiful history.

that link is a.mazing !!!

People (ours included) have gotten really careless with making any old reckless, uninformed statement about the motherland.

I think it comes from low self esteem.

 

[Raspberry]

Our ancestors had the BEST hair practices while in Africa. Just do a search on native African hairstyles from the past and now. They are absolutely beautiful in style and in all textures.
Here is an example:
http://blackgirllonghair.blogspot.com/search/label/african style week

Wow those photos are amazing Most of us have been told that black women in Africa always have shortish hair. I'm now rethinking the assumptions I've been told and adopted.

I'm definitely passing these along...

 

[CurleeDST]

More manageable is relative. If you want a European comb to get through your hair then your hair needs to be more like the texture of Europeans (straight). Who ever said straightening your hair makes it more manageable? People just do not know how to manage their natural hair (which is sad).

There is some truth to what Barbara said and people can take offense but hey - the truth hurts.

 

[Southernbella.]

I was gonna leave this thread alone, but in regard to the bold above, please, please do your research before making such comments.

Our ancestors had the BEST hair practices while in Africa. Just do a search on native African hairstyles from the past and now. They are absolutely beautiful in style and in all textures.
Here is an example:
http://blackgirllonghair.blogspot.com/search/label/african style week

It wasnt until Blacks were dragged over to other countries on slave ships without access to proper hair tools that they lost some of their ability to deal with their hair they way they were able to before. We (African Americans) lost A LOT of our beautiful history.

Wow! Thank you SO much for that link!

Where did I get the impression that all African women had short hair?

 

[msa]

Why do he have to say it? Do you have low-self esteem. He did say in so many ways that we do not need the relaxer; we do not need the braids, we do not need the weaves. I think that says a lot. I will see the movie this weekend.

When I said "our" I was referring to black women, not myself as an individual. And no, I don't have low self esteem.

As others have said, he said the point of doing the movie was to show his daughter that her hair is beautiful. I think the best way for him to do that would have been to flat out say it. Especially when he keeps saying "y'all don't need relaxers" but then he gushes about being able to run his fingers through a black woman's relaxed hair. The mixed messages are annoying and I'm sure they're confusing for his daughters as well.

 

[DeenIsFirst]

Wow! Thank you SO much for that link!

Where did I get the impression that all African women had short hair?

No prob I had the same impression that you had, but it never sat well with me. I knew there had to be more to it than what we see and are exposed to on a regular basis. It wasn't until I transitioned that I realized how much the Western standard of beauty (and being surrounded by chemicals) really messed with my head. And I'm only speaking for myself.

 

[Katherina]

I don't know whether to applaud Whoopi for her comments or go I hate she said black women get relaxers to make the hair more manageable. That comment in itself promotes a destructive mentality many of us are attempting to overcome. .
I guess you'd have to pick the lesser of the two evils between her comments and Bawbwa.

so hilarious

 

[afiya27]

I talked about this in another thread. Manageability for socially acceptable and fashionable styles. If natural styles were in, things would be different. Straight styles are in, and relaxers are the easiest way to maintain straight hair.

Hmmm ... and you all don't think that there is a REASON why straight styles have been "in" more often than not? I mean, throughout the entire 200+ years of America's existence, I'd say Afros were "in" for ~ 10 - 20 years MAX ("in" defined as being the chosen style of over 50% of black women). The rest of that time has been committed to straight styles/wigs/weaves (or those trusty bandanas that our enslaved ancestresses rocked in the fields)... I wonder WHY? Was it because of the overwhelming "beauty" of straight haired Native Americans? ... OR straight haired Whites? ... Or just a random coincidence (as some folks here seem to want to imply)? ...

Just because the 60s and 70s proved we could go without straightening doesn't mean that that time period "cured" us. The patterns we see today didn't arise out of a vacuum ya'll ... Even though it's not "cool" to say it outright anymore, we all know the deal. 'Barbie' (white, blond, blue-eyed) is still the standard. Look at Hollywood! Some of ya'll sound as "brand new" as ya'll claim Barbara was pretending to be ... But, I do get your point about her. Given that she did live through the 60s and 70s AND was in love with a black man AND was at all into the woman's movements of those times, she should've kept her mouth shut on that ... The fact that she didn't suggested that she was making the statement for her own personal ego boost (i.e. "Oh, yes, those black women I was competing against were ALL trying to look like MEEEE! erplexed). Gag!

Cause, given that Barbara lived through all of that, a part of her knows that at the end of the day, beyond ALL of our "pretending" not to notice, the REALLY sneaky bottom line is, NOBODY looks like Barbie! White, Black, Brown, Yellow, or Red! The beauty industry (owned at the very top by White Males) has ALL of us in its pockets to varying degrees!

Yes, I'm talking about that "dirty concept" that even our black men detest and/or imply that we're traitors for contemplating as a possibility ...

Gender-Based Oppression/Exploitation is REAL! ... Add to that Race-Based Oppression, and you've got a sketch of the black woman's situation! With our hair being the lightning rod right at the intersection!

 

[dynamic1]

Not once has he said that our hair, how it grows out of our heads, is beautiful. Not one time.

I have watched so much commentary since this film was at Sundance and I cannot point you in the direction for the specific source. However, he did say that his reaction to his daughter's "good hair" comment was...wait, your hair is beautiful too.

Also, my favorite quote from his interviews, "you just don't want a kid to start out at an early age thinking any part of them is inadequate". I have no doubt he tells his daughters they are the most beautiful girls in the world. Why does he have to call out specific features? erplexed

Regarding the show...I wish the term "manageable", when referenced in kinky/curly hair discussions, would burn in the fiery pits of H e double l!

 

[afiya27]

I was thinking to myself, I didn't realize Barbara Walters was that ignorant to say "I thought black women were trying to be more like white women"? How long have black people been in this country? Clearly, white folks don't have a clue about our culture. I don't know of any black women that straighten their hair for the sake of trying to be white. Should black people also ask the question if white women are trying to be black by getting tans, lip injections, butt implants?

Yeah. She would have been more precise had she said "I thought black women, LIKE ALL OTHER WOMEN -- INCLUDING WHITES, were trying to be more like the impossible, illusionary women that Hollywood and/or the Beauty Industry uphold as the standard of beauty". THAT wording would have suggested to me that she wasn't ignorant. If she said the above. Yeah. Sounds like she's basically ignorant ... OR, as I (and others) suggested above, jealous/mean-spirited/trying to get a jab in on black woman (i.e. her 'competition' for that beloved married black man of her 30s).

 

[afiya27]

I don't understand why it's always an issue of black people trying to look like white people. There are so many other races with straight hair, Asian, Indian, American Indian, Latina, etc.

It seems quite arrogant Barbara to think that when we relax we are trying to look like whites.

Are you up on your American history? ...

 

[Kurlee]

booo barabra

 

[jendazzler]

The Monique show is on right now talking about good hair. She is rocking an afro and telling AA women to love their natural hair.

 

[jendazzler]

The entire episode is about good hair/bad hair because Chris Rock is the guest. Someone the Monique show interviewed said good hair means you have a good relaxer and bad hair means you need a relaxer.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

I understand WHY we started relaxing, but to outright say that the modern black woman is aspiring to be white when she relaxes her hair is a bit extreme. Over the years we've put our own spin on hair. Even relaxed black women have been rocking hairstyles that whites poked fun at and called ghetto for the longest. Braids always have and always will remain popular among African American women, and there is NOTHING 'white' about that. Hair shows, though full of straight weaves, pay homage to our natural appreciation for the colorful and flamboyant. I do see a problem with black women being quick to throw a relaxer in their daughters' hair. I also see a problem with the obsession with long, silky, straight ridiculous looking lace fronts on non-celebrity black woman. However, some black women just like the look of straight hair. Brainwashed or not, it's a choice like everything else.

The interesting thing is that black women who are born with naturally curly, type 3 hair are often encouraged to rock their natural hair. Not to say that this is better, but the white woman's type 1 hair IS NOT the ultimate ideal for black women. Most black women would choose Gelila's hair over a white woman's hair anyday.

 

[Kurlee]

@ WHOOPI rolling her eyes @ barabra insisting it's about being white! LOL! Barabra
needs to retire