The View Talking About Good Hair

[HairBarbie]

People keep saying that black women relax to make their hair more manageable. But then how do you explain all the people whose hair started to break off after they started relaxing, no edges, relaxers burning off their hair due to the same yet different poor practices they had while natural. I think most black women subconsciously relax their hair to become more like the norm, whether they admit it or not.

Someone did a pole a year or two ago and most people even said that their hair was longer before they started to relax which then broke it off. If manageability is the main reason for relaxing, then why do most black women still have short, breaking and damaged hair?

I can't wait for the day that good black hair practices become worldwide, whether relaxed or natural.

*This is coming from a relaxed hair bw by the way*

ETA: Barbra has always made smart and snide comments towards black women, I think she has a huge disdain for black women in general and throws insults in while she can. Very typical, insult people under the disguise of goodwill, innocence and ignorance. She knew what she was doing.

 

[Southernbella.]

If manageability is the main reason for relaxing, then why do most black women still have short, breaking and damaged hair?

This is the million dollar question. Someone upthread made the point that straight hair just looks good on black women, and I chuckled a bit at that. Most black women with straight hair? Hot, greasy, chewed up, see through mess.

Why do these women prefer that hair to their natural hair? Because it's straight. Even if it's half an inch long and paper thin, at least it's not nappy.

 

[FluffyRed]

This is the million dollar question. Someone upthread made the point that straight hair just looks good on black women, and I chuckled a bit at that. Most black women with straight hair? Hot, greasy, chewed up, see through mess.

Why do these women prefer that hair to their natural hair? Because it's straight. Even if it's half an inch long and paper thin, at least it's not nappy. :

DAM[\]!!

 

[Irresistible]

No you give me a break w/ all this self hating nonsense. Between this and the WL thread, you're coming off like you have issues that you need to "convice" other are "truths". Maybe it's not OTHERS who are "abnormal". Who really cares about all this anyway? We're here to discuss OUR hair and its needs, not "other people". All you have to say is how Blacks are so "different" and all that, ok fine....but what does that have to do w/ OUR purpose here? Zero.

just checked in and glanced thru both threads quickly

Jamaraa 4 president!

 

[Irresistible]

This is the million dollar question. Someone upthread made the point that straight hair just looks good on black women, and I chuckled a bit at that. Most black women with straight hair? Hot, greasy, chewed up, see through mess.

Why do these women prefer that hair to their natural hair? Because it's straight. Even if it's half an inch long and paper thin, at least it's not nappy. :

witnessed this on a nurse in the ER today

I just looked and marveled and asked WHYYYYYYYYYYY?

 

[jamaraa]

just checked in and glanced thru both threads quickly

Jamaraa 4 president!

I saw your name and had to come in. How've you beenm kiddo? LOL....taking care of your ear length hair, I'll bet. Are you still using JBCO?

 

[DeenIsFirst]

Yall didnt forget about Barbara weave-checking Tanika Ray and Brandy did you? The woman's got issues.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=364037

 

[HairBarbie]

Yall didnt forget about Barbara weave-checking Tanika Ray and Brandy did you? The woman's got issues.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=364037

Or calling Monique's children "creatures". Who says that?

 

[Irresistible]

I saw your name and had to come in. How've you beenm kiddo? LOL....taking care of your ear length hair, I'll bet. Are you still using JBCO?

hehehehe

nah girl I loved it but was weird-ed out about it too remember that?

sticky oily syrup haha

I been good , u r too funny girl

 

[BotanyGrl]

I expected my opinion to offend since this is a great sore spot among black people, but it is what it is . My opinion still stands that black women perm to emulate the white standard of beauty. Too many of us do it, too many of us hold negative views of our natural hair...honestly where do you think this comes from? Honestly, think about it. I know it is difficult as there is a knee-jerk reaction surrounding the issue but try to look at it w/out the emotional piece. The manageability argument is a cop -out,. Manageability has nothing to do with it, black women who perm just prefer straighter hair bc of the negative messages associated with natural hair- that is fine and that is your prerogative if you want to relax, but let's call a spade a spade.

I really don't like broad assumptions. Unless you are that woman, you have no clue why she relaxes. There are a few members on this board who relaxed after years of being natural for "manageability" and I take them at their word.

Personally, I'm at the point in my journey where hair is just hair. I know that many Black women have issues with their hair, but I'm not going to make a blanket statement about a stranger because she chooses to relax or straighten her hair. It's just not that serious

 

[honeisos]

@ WHOOPI rolling her eyes @ barabra insisting it's about being white! LOL! Barabra needs to retire

lol preach! i say goodbye to the old bag . it is a shame that this old white woman has been on this earth for over seventy years and has interviewed kings , queens presidents , human beings from all over the globe .and barbara is just a idiotic and ignorant as some deep south cross burner . she's really ridicules ...all that knowledge wasted ...

 

[Crackers Phinn]

People keep saying that black women relax to make their hair more manageable. But then how do you explain all the people whose hair started to break off after they started relaxing, no edges, relaxers burning off their hair due to the same yet different poor practices they had while natural.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the majority of non hair board AA women would say that washing their hair too much is unhealthy. Don't forget the 'conventional wisdom' that dirt somehow makes afro textured hair grow and that grease is a moisturizer.

When you start with a f'ed up foundation when it comes to hair care then everything you put on top of is bound to be unstable and that's the explanation for amount of chewed up hair we see on a regular basis.

 

[Jetblackhair]

If anything I'd expect Indians to point fingers since everyone, black AND white, is wearing their hair!

I do think it's a mixture of stuff. Hair as well as the culture preference for those of mixed racial ancestry. How many natural black women are sex symbols within our community?

Well stated...

 

[Kurlee]

what annoys me most about this good hair discussion/exposé is that they never talk about the black women who DO have long hair and that we CAN have long hair. It's like the movie just reinforces stereotypes. I'm just gonna have to wait and see.

 

[carameldelight87]

There are historical contexts in which to view this entire situation...It is my opinion that black women relax their hair to live up to a white standard of beauty...I'm also not understanding the "before straight hair was in style" comment either, LOL. Straighter hair textures on white women are not styles, it is what they possess naturally.

#1, History has a lot to do with why we BEGAN relaxing our hair. I've mentioned that several times. It has nothing to do with why we CONTINUE to relax our hair.

#2, That's your opinion. No problem. However, I still have yet to hear u mention or supply any evidence for that opinion. "Be real about it" is not evidence. "That's just the way it is" isn't evidence. Neither is ur "historical context."

#3, I didn't think my statement was too complex, but I apologize for not making it clear.

Not all white women have bone straight hair. Matter of fact, most of the white women I've come into contact with have wavy to curly hair. If u see a white woman with straight hair 9 times out of 10 she's using a flat iron to get that affect. Therefore, if it doesn't "grow out of their scalp" bone straight, it's a STYLE.

So as I pointed out, white women haven't always worn their hair straight. Black women however, have been getting relaxers WAAAAY before it became popular for white women to straighten their hair.

 

[CoilyFields]

Chain of events:

*Euro's become the dominant culture (colonizing large sections of the world)

*Blacks are taken from their homeland and brought to the Americas as slaves

*Differences between blacks and whites are highlighted to show the "natural superiority" of the white race.

*Multiracial children are born and lighter skin and looser textured "flowing" hair srping up among enslvaed populations

*Highlighted racial differences keep poor whites and immigrants from building coalitions with blacks. colorism and hairism springs up among blacks. (Divide and conquer)

*Blacks discover lye-the harsh soap that was used back then-straightened out their kinks and made their hair look more like their white "masters" -who set themselves up as the norm (and held their women up as THE STANDARD OF BEAUTY-a status most of their own women could not even achieve-barbie-but still had one up on black women with skin color and hair texture.

*pressing combs and relaxers become the ways to get black hair to look more like Whites (straight).

* So many black women adopted straight hair that it gradually became the norm and natural hair looked down upon.

*Straight hair became a generational right of passage accompanied by general derogatory comments about natural hair-unmanageable, looks unkept, nappy, etc.

*Today: we not only mimic black women who mimicked their white counterparts to fit in, we have accepted it as OUR standard of beauty and have perpetuated it in our culture.

*Though many of us would like it to simply be a style choice it has too charged a history and is too prevelant a practice to be coincidence that most of us relax or straighten.

SOLUTION: Teach our daughters to LOVE the hair that grows out of their heads. SHow them how to take care of it. Try to spread good hair practices to those around us. Politely call out people who use charged terms such as "good hair" or "a better grade of hair". Always remebering that we must be the change that we wish to see in the world.

 

[diadall]

I belive some black women wear weaves and wigs to protect their hair. I also belive some of them wear them to look like celebrities who wear them. If you don't work in the entertainment industry there really is no need to put heat on your hair on the daily.

 

[FluffyRed]

So as I pointed out, white women haven't always worn their hair straight. Black women however, have been getting relaxers WAAAAY before it became popular for white women to straighten their hair.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Daughter]

I belive some black women wear weaves and wigs to protect their hair. I also belive some of them wear them to look like celebrities who wear them. If you don't work in the entertainment industry there really is no need to put heat on your hair on the daily.

I agree with you there, sometimes I just don't want to do my hair for a while and I'd canerow it, same kind of thing. For this reason we shouldn't prejudge someone with a wig or weave, we just don't know why they're wearing it.

Re: your point about daily heat - in my ignorance, I used to use the curling iron almost daily in my teens *smh* ... it all comes back to ignorance about how to take care of our hair.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

This is the million dollar question. Someone upthread made the point that straight hair just looks good on black women, and I chuckled a bit at that. Most black women with straight hair? Hot, greasy, chewed up, see through mess.

Why do these women prefer that hair to their natural hair? Because it's straight. Even if it's half an inch long and paper thin, at least it's not nappy.

Exactly, which it is why we should start being real with ourselves. Most black women relax because they prefer straight hair. They want to flip and swang their hair like everyone else. A relaxer is easier for some black women to maintain than flat ironing all the time. There is no way a relaxer is easier to maintain than a natural wash and go, but if you're not feeling the look of natural type 4 hair, you're not feeling it.

 

[almond eyes]

Then how can it be explained that in many parts of Africa even before some Africans came in contact with the white man, women were pressing their hair with metal forks and were using natural products to soften their hair texture?.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[labelfree]

Originally Posted by carameldelight87
So as I pointed out, white women haven't always worn their hair straight. Black women however, have been getting relaxers WAAAAY before it became popular for white women to straighten their hair.

This is a joke, right?

I read that and was like huh???

 

[Daughter]

what annoys me most about this good hair discussion/exposé is that they never talk about the black women who DO have long hair and that we CAN have long hair. It's like the movie just reinforces stereotypes. I'm just gonna have to wait and see.

True. I haven't seen the documentary yet, but it sounds a lot like pointing out some of the issues without looking at alternatives or solutions. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Daughter]

Then how can it be explained that in many parts of Africa even before some Africans came in contact with the white man, women were pressing their hair with metal forks and were using natural products to soften their hair texture?.

Best,
Almond Eyes

Interesting... if that it indeed true, I'd have to say that it could be that the motive was purely for styling, perhaps it wasn't intended to be permanent or out of disdain for their natural hair texture. These may be true for many today - hey I've pressed my hair a few times - but it's a different ballgame post european colonialisation/imperialism.

 

[FluffyRed]

Then how can it be explained that in many parts of Africa even before some Africans came in contact with the white man, women were pressing their hair with metal forks and were using natural products to soften their hair texture?.

Best,
Almond Eyes

Pressing? with metal forks? That's never worked on my hair, but...

If this is before the yt man, how did you become aware of this?

Just asking.

 

[almond eyes]

My greatgrand mother was doing it in her village and my mother was also doing it growing up as a child in West Africa. Now the purpose was not intended to make the hair bone straight like the styles we see today but to make it manageable for the plaits.

Best,
Amond Eyes

 

[bludaydreamr]

Asians, Europeans, East Indians, Native Americans, and Hispanics have straight hair. Well ok everybody but us. Although their are those in those groups that have curly hair many are straight and even those with curly hair in that group desires or alters their natural curly texture to straight. And here we are with our springy coils and curls pointing toward the sky. Defying gravity and non-conforming. It's unique.

This society (White folks) has placed Black folks at the bottom of the food chain and ridiculed our uniqueness, many Black people want to conform to those beauty standards that has been presented to us since childhood. We have internalized these standards and have ridiculed each other. It’s a cycle that leads to the majority of Black women wearing their hair straight, bone straight. You want straight hair. Not just “manageable” hair but STRAIGHT HAIR. Like everyone else. We have become a race of conformers instead of pioneers.

Knowing that my hair is unique and closer to what the Creators hair looks like, I'm keeping my coils. Imma ride or die for these coils.

You may not relax your hair to look white now, but that's why it began didn't it? I think a lot of people don't like thinking that maybe just maybe deep down inside they want a white girl's hair, personally. It just reminds me of why people refuse with all their heart not to go natural.

Btw, I do wish they talked to more black men about this issue too. When I talked to my male friend about going natural, he responded with disgust. I told him to imagine me with natural hair and tell me what you think. His thoughts were "too unruly, too nappy, etc." Then I told him to imagine I was mixed with white and he responded more positively. Why do people keep overlooking the "white" factor when it comes to "good" and "straight" hair. You can't just ignore that!

ETA: And I do agree that to a certain extent, ALL women, regardless of race, want to "fit" in.

You both make very good points! I know for myself, my mother started relaxing our hair for "manageability" but after years of relaxing, and I started seeing signs that my hair was unhealthy, and made the decision to go natural for the health of my hair. I started to have anxiety about my decision (I was having dreams about relaxing my hair myself which is something I had never done). I hadn't had self acceptance issues since high school, so I came online to see if there was info out there, if I was the only one who felt this way, and I found this site and many others. So, you my feel you know why you relax, but for a majority of BW IRL feel relaxers are the only acceptable way of life, and you may not ever realize where your true feelings lay until you actually go natural or faced with the decision. I know I didn't.

There was a thread one member started about not going natural. It was interesting to me that so many relaxed heads even felt the need to justify their decision. I don't care who relaxes, or who doesn't as long as you are happy with your hair that is all that matters.

 

[FluffyRed]

My greatgrand mother was doing it in her village and my mother was also doing it growing up as a child in West Africa. Now the purpose was not intended to make the hair bone straight like the styles we see today but to make it manageable for the plaits.

Best,
Amond Eyes

how, exactly were these forks used?

 

[babyb900]

I don't know about the "black women relax their hair to be white" thing, but I do know that every race has done something to emulate another. I also don't understand why some black women hold other black women to higher standards. That's being kind of racist to me, because no race is above another.

Black women shouldn't relax their hair to emulate white people, but white people can emulate blacks by tanning, getting lip injections and butt implants and that doesn't bother you. Is that because you're not white? Shouldn't everyone embrace their natural beauty, not just black women?

The only race I know that really does not emulate any other race (by hair, skin or any other beauty practices) are the Native Americans. When I see that part of my family, they are very closely tied to their roots.

Tell me what other race (East Asian, Middle Eastern, Indian, White, Latino or Black) that does nothing that comes from another culture......I bet you can't.

 

[jennboo]

#1, History has a lot to do with why we BEGAN relaxing our hair. I've mentioned that several times. It has nothing to do with why we CONTINUE to relax our hair.

#2, That's your opinion. No problem. However, I still have yet to hear u mention or supply any evidence for that opinion. "Be real about it" is not evidence. "That's just the way it is" isn't evidence. Neither is ur "historical context."

#3, I didn't think my statement was too complex, but I apologize for not making it clear.

Not all white women have bone straight hair. Matter of fact, most of the white women I've come into contact with have wavy to curly hair. If u see a white woman with straight hair 9 times out of 10 she's using a flat iron to get that affect. Therefore, if it doesn't "grow out of their scalp" bone straight, it's a STYLE.

So as I pointed out, white women haven't always worn their hair straight. Black women however, have been getting relaxers WAAAAY before it became popular for white women to straighten their hair.

To #1: Does the following statement make sense: History has a lot to do with why we BEGAN to internalize the idea that LS equals better and prettier and therefore engaged in the divisive rhetoric and behavior regarding LS and DS blacks. It has nothing to do with why we CONTINUE to perseverate on LS and DS.rolleyes

Read the bolded twice please.

To #2: If you need more examples of how white folks (the dominant race) imposed their ideals upon Africans and how this has had a long standing impact on how we view ourselves (including the idea that whiter is better and straighter texture is more desirable) i urge you to visit your nearest library. If that is too much just see post #286 for a briefing. If "my historical context" isn't relevant for this discussion than why is it relevant for another? Is it relevant for the colorism/ls ds debate? Is it relevant for why brown blacks in this country do not wield the power that whites do? Is it relevant to why the civil rights movement took place? Historical context, historical legacy is everything.

To #3: LOL. I actually couldn't even believe you posed this as a valid argument but okay. Let me get this straight. You are saying that white women are more likely mimicking black women by straightening their hair because blacks began to relax their hair before the straight "hairstyle" on whites was considered popular? Is that what you are saying?

I can see that you take literally my phrase "straight hair" to be type 1 stick straight hair. This makes sense to assume, and it is my fault that i did not clarify what I meant by straight hair within this discussion. Perhaps a better term to use would be "Straighter Hair" in reference to the hair type that MOST blacks possess. Straighter hair means: Any straight or loosely textured hair type that can not be defined as or mistaken for kinky/coily/nappy/cottony/or tightly curled. Basically, "Good Hair".