The View Talking About Good Hair

[carameldelight87]

But when the majority of a culture is chemically altering a physical characteristic or sporting wigs and weaves that reesmbles the dominant culture then we have to realize that we have internalized a standard of beauty that is not intrinsically ours.

I just dont believe that the majority of black women-outside of LHCF and such-are at the point where straight hair is simply a style choice and they would just as quickly adopt some tight kinky 4b napps

But the "dominant" culture (a term I find inaccurate) hasn't ALWAYS looked like this. As I've said before, white hair has changed just as much as ours has, if not more. They've gone from style to style and in another 20 years there will be a new style that's hip for the moment. It isn't always about race. Black women relax their hair cuz OTHER Black women relax their hair. And those Black women relax probably because their parents relaxed it for them.

As I pointed out before, I see more ridiculous hair styles on a day to day basis that look nothing like the "dominant cultures" hair than anything. It's about times changing.

 

[CurlyMoo]

This topic is as exhausting as the abortion debate. I'm off to the entertainment forum to relax.

 

[carameldelight87]

This topic is as exhausting as the abortion debate. I'm off to the entertainment forum to relax.

I completely agree!

 

[CoilyFields]

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=406102

The link shows just how many of us on LHCF were taught AS CHILDREN that a certain hair type was more valued and that meant that the "opposite" was worthless.

 

[CoilyFields]

But the "dominant" culture (a term I find inaccurate) hasn't ALWAYS looked like this. As I've said before, white hair has changed just as much as ours has, if not more. They've gone from style to style and in another 20 years there will be a new style that's hip for the moment. It isn't always about race. Black women relax their hair cuz OTHER Black women relax their hair. And those Black women relax probably because their parents relaxed it for them.

As I pointed out before, I see more ridiculous hair styles on a day to day basis that look nothing like the "dominant cultures" hair than anything. It's about times changing.

I am not talking about "styles" and fashions they have adopted but the way their hair grows out of their head. THat has not changed. And that is the accepted "norm" to which other cultures (and since we're the main ones with a very different texture that would mean us) conform.

 

[Celestial]

It's one form of conformity. No one said they would be totally accepted. What exactly is the hair being "fixed" into? Not loose nappy hair but bone straight hair. That is a conformity if it needs to be fixed to make yourself more accepted into a certain community.

I agree with this. People need to explain the Jherri Curl and Texturizers. Who can remember the very first kitty Kit and it was nothing like a relaxer. It just soften and loosen the kinks. The point of altering nappy hair was to "fix" it so it can appear more "normal." You couldn't conform into white beauty standard by straightening your hair. They couldn't do it then and they can't do it now. Relaxers or any chemical process was made to "fix" black people's hair so it can look less different and "conform" to what is more normal...not what is more white. Like Chris Rock said, [we] relax so others can feel relax. It doesn't need to be straight it just have to appear more normal and less different. I think black women forgot that a relaxer doesn't need to be kept onto the hair until the hair is straight. Black people kept it on straight simply because they wanted straight hair or "normal" hair and that notions remains the same to this day. It was our ancestors and foreparents who decided to keep the chemical process on as long as needed so the hair can straighten. They didn't had to but they did anyway because they wanted to emulate the "norm". I highly doubt today it's trying to conform to white beauty standards or trying to look white.

 

[jennboo]

If YOU relaxed ur hair at some point in ur life, to attain a "white standard of beauty" that's fine. But assigning that to everyone is inaccurate and a generalization. Speak for yourself.

There are women who do think white is right, but a relaxer isn't gonna make u look white. A blond wig, some blue contacts, etc will.

Plus, the "white" standard of beauty isn't just straight long hair. White hair has evolved just as much as Black hair has. The pulled back bun used to be the most popular hair style. Along with the short cropped or pin up do. Then the ponytail was a big hit, then the massive over-sprayed look and the super curly perm took over. Now it's more of a straight/wavy look that's popular amongst white women.

We've been wearing relaxers long before straight hair was in style for white women so how can we be mimicking them? If anything they've been mimicking us.

LOL. It isn't about black women wanting to become white women bc that will never happen. That is not what is being debated. But black women do their darndest to mimic/attain white ideals of beauty, all i'm saying.

It is about altering oneself to attain some semblance of the white aesthetic that is so prized. Common sense will tell you that relaxed hair on black women looks nothing like a white woman's naturally straight hair, texlaxing on type 4 hair will look nothing like a naturally 3a head of hair, using skin bleaching creams will not turn a black persons skin into alabaster, wearing blue contacts does not look the same as a persons naturally blue eyes, etc. It is about the continual attempts to emulate a beauty that is not your own. My sentiments around the issue do not appear out of thin air. There are historical contexts in which to view this entire situation.
It is my opinion that black women relax their hair to live up to a white standard of beauty. I respect that you disagree with it, that’s cool, but I won’t ignore the loads of evidence that point toward my original assertion.

I'm also not understanding the "before straight hair was in style" comment either, LOL. Straighter hair textures on white women are not styles, it is what they possess naturally. Black women who wear natural hair are not donning a style, they are wearing what naturally emerges from their scalps. If you really can't understand how/why black women mimic white women's beauty so continually than certainly nothing in my posts will spark enlightenment about the issue for you, lol.

 

[FluffyRed]

yt beauty stds are "the norm"

y is normal not what grows from our heads? Because we are influenced by others

 

[BroadstreetBully]

LOL. It isn't about black women wanting to become white women bc that will never happen. That is not what is being debated. But black women do their darndest to mimic/attain white ideals of beauty, all i'm saying.

It is about altering oneself to attain some semblance of the white aesthetic that is so prized. Common sense will tell you that relaxed hair on black women looks nothing like a white woman's naturally straight hair, texlaxing on type 4 hair will look nothing like a naturally 3a head of hair, using skin bleaching creams will not turn a black persons skin into alabaster, wearing blue contacts does not look the same as a persons naturally blue eyes, etc. It is about the continual attempts to emulate a beauty that is not your own. My sentiments around the issue do not appear out of thin air. There are historical contexts in which to view this entire situation.
It is my opinion that black women relax their hair to live up to a white standard of beauty. I respect that you disagree with it, that’s cool, but I won’t ignore the loads of evidence that point toward my original assertion.

I'm also not understanding the "before straight hair was in style" comment either, LOL. Straighter hair textures on white women are not styles, it is what they possess naturally. Black women who wear natural hair are not donning a style, they are wearing what naturally emerges from their scalps. If you really can't understand how/why black women mimic white women's beauty so continually than certainly nothing in my posts will spark enlightenment about the issue for you, lol.

Most women in the world have straight/wavy/loosely curled hair. Long, flowing hair is prized in most cultures around the world. Black women are not immune to the pressure of looking acceptable to the masses.

 

[jennboo]

No, they weren't. They were braiding it. Just like we do nowadays! We spend crazy money on micro's, Senegalese Twists, Kinky Twists, etc both relaxed and natural heads so don't act like we don't embrace our roots too. We cornrow, flat twist, all of that good stuff.

Relaxing our hair used to be a way to fit in. I'm not denying that in the beginning Ms. Walker was trying to help Black women be acceptable according to those white standards.

But today, Black women couldn't care less about white standards! U see all the ridiculous colors they put in their hair?! U think red and yellow tracks is acceptable by the "white standards"?! Heck naw! But some of us do it cuz it's what WE like.

I dare u to go to the ATL hair show and count how many styles u see that are "acceptable to white standards."

The truth of the matter is, we do WHATEVER we want to our heads!

@ bolded: This does not negate the fact that black women relax their hair bc we have internalized a beauty standard that is not our own.

 

[Celestial]

yt beauty stds are "the norm"

y is normal not what grows from our heads? Because we are influenced by others

Because what grows from our head isn't normal; it is very very different from the rest of the world. Straight hair is actually normal since almost everyone in the world grows natural straight hair. Curly hair is even more normal than nappy hair. Nappy is just unique, it could never be the norm. It can only be the norm amongst black people but it would never be the norm in a world view because it's not.

 

[Hairsofab]

Because what grows from our head isn't normal; it is very very different from the rest of the world. Straight hair is actually normal since almost everyone in the world grows natural straight hair. Curly hair is even more normal than nappy hair. Nappy is just unique, it could never be the norm. It can only be the norm amongst black people but it would never be the norm in a world view because it's not.

By that standard, blonde hair isn't normal either since very few people in the world have natural blonde hair, but it doesn't stop people from dying their hair blonde. And you don't see blondes desperately dying their hair brown to be normal.

 

[Celestial]

I don't think it is necessarily "white" beauty standards. The white standard of beauty is not only common to white folks, but is seen throughout the world practically on all continents with the exception of Africa. Though, Asians don't have features that resemble white people's nonetheless, they still will have an easier time fitting into the "normal" world look due to flowing locks and light skin. Black people truly indeed look differently and stand out.

 

[jennboo]

Most women in the world have straight/wavy/loosely curled hair. Long, flowing hair is prized in most cultures around the world. Black women are not immune to the pressure of looking acceptable to the masses.

Okay...... you are not wrong, but this is not what is being debated

What you stated above doesn't take away from the fact that black women want to emulate a beauty that is not their own.

 

[Ladybelle]

By that standard, blonde hair isn't normal either since very few people in the world have natural blonde hair, but it doesn't stop people from dying their hair blonde. And you don't see blondes desperately dying their hair brown to be normal.

This is a point that hasn't been mentioned alot - the MAJORITY of white women don't wear their natural hair color. Who are they trying to be like?

Every culture it seems is trying to be like everyone else. Indians are cutting their noses off trying to make them skinny, brazilians are having lipo & plastic surgery left & right....

I think women in general,no matter what race are always,always trying to look "better" and finding fault within themselves. There isnt' any race of women that is generally happy with their natural appearance and doesn't do anything to alter it.

women.

 

[jennboo]

Because what grows from our head isn't normal; it is very very different from the rest of the world. Straight hair is actually normal since almost everyone in the world grows natural straight hair. Curly hair is even more normal than nappy hair. Nappy is just unique, it could never be the norm. It can only be the norm amongst black people but it would never be the norm in a world view because it's not.

bolded: Not among black people, that is the point. We would like to be anything but what we are naturally.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

Because what grows from our head isn't normal; it is very very different from the rest of the world. Straight hair is actually normal since almost everyone in the world grows natural straight hair. Curly hair is even more normal than nappy hair. Nappy is just unique, it could never be the norm. It can only be the norm amongst black people but it would never be the norm in a world view because it's not.

THANK YOU! This is what I'm trying to get at! I'm a reformed 'nappy nazi', I had to get over my extremist views on black women and relaxers, because the black woman's love affair with straight hair is nothing more than a reflection of the world's love affair with long, flowing, straight and wavy hair. Most people in the world have that type of hair, so it will always be the norm and the standard. I could never understand why Asians were so obsessed with having eyelid creases until I thought about it from this angle. Most people in the world do not have epicanthic folds. Asians are just trying to fit in with everyone else.

 

[Celestial]

By that standard, blonde hair isn't normal either since very few people in the world have natural blonde hair, but it doesn't stop people from dying their hair blonde. And you don't see blondes desperately dying their hair brown to be normal.

That's very true. Practically no one in the world dye their hair blonde other than white women who are already blonde and want to be blonder, or white women with brown or light brown hair; and a very few dark/black hair white women. All other cultures who dye their hair blonde is so small and such a tiny fraction that it can't even be counted. Blondes don't dye their hair brown because it wouldn't look normal on natural blondes to do so. Imagine someone as white and blonde as Maria Sharapova dying her hair brown or brunette. I can see her dying her hair to a darker blonde color but not brown. I think white women knows what looks good on them. They aren't as elaborate as black women.

 

[AllAboutMoi]

@ bolded: This does not negate the fact that black women relax their hair bc we have internalized a beauty standard that is not our own.

Does the same go for naturals that occasionally straighten with heat in your opinion?

 

[jamaraa]

I don't think it is necessarily "white" beauty standards. The white standard of beauty is not only common to white folks, but is seen throughout the world practically on all continents with the exception of Africa. Though, Asians don't have features that resemble white people's nonetheless, they still will have an easier time fitting into the "normal" world look due to flowing locks and light skin. Black people truly indeed look differently and stand out.

If we're going by sheer numbers either Han Chinese or Indian subcontinentals (in their varied looks) should be "normal"....however we know this isn't the case. You say that Asian people have a easier time "fitting in" yet one wonders what are the fitting into when they are the majority of the human population?! LOL

Both SubSaharan Africans and Europeans represent the extremes in terms of human variations on looks; however, there are more Subsarahan African than there are Euros.....so why and to what are any of these groups "fitting in"? HWho are Euros fitting in w/?

 

[jamaraa]

That's very true. Practically no one in the world dye their hair blonde other than white women who are already blonde and want to be blonder, or white women with brown or light brown hair; and a very few dark/black hair white women. All other cultures who dye their hair blonde is so small and such a tiny fraction that it can't even be counted. Blondes don't dye their hair brown because it wouldn't look normal on natural blondes to do so. Imagine someone as white and blonde as Maria Sharapova dying her hair brown or brunette. I can see her dying her hair to a darker blonde color but not brown. I think white women knows what looks good on them. They aren't as elaborate as black women.

Surely you jest! The most common color in the world to dye one's hair is red, true that.......but red is a genetic variation on blonde. Most WW have a tendency to go extreme in their hair color which really doesn't look all that hot on them, IMHO.

 

[Celestial]

bolded: Not among black people, that is the point. We would like to be anything but what we are naturally.

That is because what we are naturally isn't the norm. We aren't living amongst ourselves. We are living in a globalized society where you get a chance to see what is common and those things that are least common. Black people will fall into the least common group.

 

[jamaraa]

THANK YOU! This is what I'm trying to get at! I'm a reformed 'nappy nazi', I had to get over my extremist views on black women and relaxers, because the black woman's love affair with straight hair is nothing more than a reflection of the world's love affair with long, flowing, straight and wavy hair. Most people in the world have that type of hair, so it will always be the norm and the standard. I could never understand why Asians were so obsessed with having eyelid creases until I thought about it from this angle. Most people in the world do not have epicanthic folds. Asians are just trying to fit in with everyone else.

...yes because China alone w/ it's 2/5ths of the entire population on Earth and along w/ the rest of East Asia is somehow "abnormal".
Newflash...most of the people on the planet have "the fold".

 

[Daughter]

Random thought before I go to bed; why did Chris Rock focus so much on black women, didn't he have an s-curl goin' on at one stage?

 

[BroadstreetBully]

bolded: Not among black people, that is the point. We would like to be anything but what we are naturally.

As do most women. We're no different than anyone else.

 

[Celestial]

THANK YOU! This is what I'm trying to get at! I'm a reformed 'nappy nazi', I had to get over my extremist views on black women and relaxers, because the black woman's love affair with straight hair is nothing more than a reflection of the world's love affair with long, flowing, straight and wavy hair. Most people in the world have that type of hair, so it will always be the norm and the standard. I could never understand why Asians were so obsessed with having eyelid creases until I thought about it from this angle. Most people in the world do not have epicanthic folds. Asians are just trying to fit in with everyone else.

You seem to be the only one who understands and you gave a good example. Epicanthic folds are not "normal." Asians aren't trying to look "white" when they get eyelid creases. They are trying to look "normal" in that way they would fit in with what is the norm and that is rounded eyes without an epicanthic fold.

 

[jamaraa]

That is because what we are naturally isn't the norm. We aren't living amongst ourselves. We are living in a globalized society where you get a chance to see what is common and those things that are least common. Black people will fall into the least common group.

Euros are the least common group by population of the Earth's inhabitants.

 

[Arian]

All I can say is after reading this thread (and joining the board really), I have felt bad for having relaxed hair.

I'm confused. I mean, am I less of an AA woman because I choose to??? But, I don't want anybody jumping on me--those are just my feelings at the moment.

 

[Celestial]

Random thought before I go to bed; why did Chris Rock focus so much on black women, didn't he have an s-curl goin' on at one stage?

That is because he is black and know more about black women than other women. He would understand the culture of black women better than speaking for white women, Asian women, Indian women etc...He did mention about his S-curl and did mention other women altering their hair. "Good Hair" is a black women issue; it is not an everybody issue so the film need to be bias and one-sided to keep the focus and get to the crux of the matter. I will go to see the movie this weekend.

 

[jamaraa]

You seem to be the only one who understands and you gave a good example. Epicanthic folds are not "normal." Asians aren't trying to look "white" when they get eyelid creases. They are trying to look "normal" in that way they would fit in with what is the norm and that is rounded eyes without an epicanthic fold.

You cleary don't understand math. If the largest group of humans in the world have a trait, it's the mean...the average, ie the norm. Most people on this planet are of east Asian descent, so their features are technically the norm. Most Asians are not getting the round eyes surgery. Sorry Charlie.

However, none of this matters, you must work w/ what you got.