The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

hopeful said:
@Crystalicequeen123
AA = Alison Armstrong, author of The Queen's Code.
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Oh that's right! Thank you. Silly me, I was thinking it was a new book you guys were talking about lol! :lol:





Belle Du Jour said:
Thanks for sharing your story! I've been in a similar situation in a group outing and just feeling that I was much different than the other women lol. I was soft, feminine, demure and they were more boisterous and brash. Men notice the difference...also I think it's good to notice these subtle differences in how men treat you compared to other women. They may not come out and say they think you're different (in a good way) but will show it in their actions. I know a guy who always talks about how his classes are going and what he's doing. I think he does that to preen a little bit and to remind me that he's in a temporary low status career but is making plans. I think he also tells me because I encourage him and cheer him on.
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Awww....how cute of you to be his little cheerleader. :D


And YES!! You're so right. Men will show it with their actions.

I feel that I'm "different" now from a lot of women as well. And I feel like I'm treated BETTER now days as well. Just reading this book and making small little tweaks and adjustments to my personality has changed me for the better I think. In fact, reading this book has now made me so much more aware of how women treat men, and I can actually spot and pick up on "Frog Farming" a LOT easier now days. I even see how men look when their girlfriends playfully put them down or belittle their input in public. I'm telling you, I NEVER used to notice this before!

Idk about you ladies, but I actually LIKE feeling "different" lol. :giggle: It makes you stand out...in a GOOD way. I feel better around men as well. Idk what it is, but I feel like there's less "struggle" and more "ease" . I feel CALM.

Years ago (even before I read TQC), I noticed how just simply changing the way you act can change the way men respond to you when I went out with one of my guy friends. Years ago my guy friend and I hung out together to have fun. This guy was strictly a FRIEND (at least on MY end lol), and I used to banter back and forth with him all the time. He was very witty, and so he liked to tease me, debate with me, and just go back and forth with me sometimes even sarcastically. I have to admit, it was fun bantering with him lol. :giggle: Well, one night that I went out with him, I decided to try a new approach for a change. To be honest, I had gotten tired of always feeling like I had to defend myself and my beliefs around him. So, THIS night, instead of negating everything he said, being all loud and brash, challenging him to a debate, or forcibly defending my viewpoints, I just decided to be more demure and lady-like.

If he teased me I would just laugh and giggle (instead of hitting him with some jabs back), if he challenged my viewpoint I would just casually shrug and mention with a smile "Well, that's just how I feel" (instead of getting loud, playfully daring him to think differently), and instead of teasing and calling him out if he made a mistake/took a wrong turn, I would just be silent and act like nothing was wrong.

Do you know this guy friend of mine did a complete 180 that night?? He turned from being brash and argumentative, into a softer version of himself! Our interactions were NICER, I felt more RESPECTED, and tbh...I actually ENJOYED being around him even more! It was the strangest thing lol. The difference was like night and day. I felt more calm. I wasn't trying to "fight" or "earn" my respect, or think of something witty to say in order to get him back. It was honestly much more enjoyable being w/him that night. :)
 
Crystalicequeen123 said:
Oh that's right! Thank you. Silly me, I was thinking it was a new book you guys were talking about lol! :lol:

Awww....how cute of you to be his little cheerleader. :D

And YES!! You're so right. Men will show it with their actions.

I feel that I'm "different" now from a lot of women as well. And I feel like I'm treated BETTER now days as well. Just reading this book and making small little tweaks and adjustments to my personality has changed me for the better I think. In fact, reading this book has now made me so much more aware of how women treat men, and I can actually spot and pick up on "Frog Farming" a LOT easier now days. I even see how men look when their girlfriends playfully put them down or belittle their input in public. I'm telling you, I NEVER used to notice this before!

Idk about you ladies, but I actually LIKE feeling "different" lol. :giggle: It makes you stand out...in a GOOD way. I feel better around men as well. Idk what it is, but I feel like there's less "struggle" and more "ease" . I feel CALM.

Years ago (even before I read TQC), I noticed how just simply changing the way you act can change the way men respond to you when I went out with one of my guy friends. Years ago my guy friend and I hung out together to have fun. This guy was strictly a FRIEND (at least on MY end lol), and I used to banter back and forth with him all the time. He was very witty, and so he liked to tease me, debate with me, and just go back and forth with me sometimes even sarcastically. I have to admit, it was fun bantering with him lol. :giggle: Well, one night that I went out with him, I decided to try a new approach for a change. To be honest, I had gotten tired of always feeling like I had to defend myself and my beliefs around him. So, THIS night, instead of negating everything he said, being all loud and brash, challenging him to a debate, or forcibly defending my viewpoints, I just decided to be more demure and lady-like.

If he teased me I would just laugh and giggle (instead of hitting him with some jabs back), if he challenged my viewpoint I would just casually shrug and mention with a smile "Well, that's just how I feel" (instead of getting loud, playfully daring him to think differently), and instead of teasing and calling him out if he made a mistake/took a wrong turn, I would just be silent and act like nothing was wrong.

Do you know this guy friend of mine did a complete 180 that night?? He turned from being brash and argumentative, into a softer version of himself! Our interactions were NICER, I felt more RESPECTED, and tbh...I actually ENJOYED being around him even more! It was the strangest thing lol. The difference was like night and day. I felt more calm. I wasn't trying to "fight" or "earn" my respect, or think of something witty to say in order to get him back. It was honestly much more enjoyable being w/him that night. :)
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Awesome example!

This may sound counter to everything we are supposed to believe, but I think men need their egos stroked. We think they already get enough ego-stroking but it's so common to male-bash in society that I don't think they get enough positive reinforcement and encouragement. It's not about being subservient or fake but truly appreciating them for what they do and creating that space for them to rise up (if they choose).

I definitely feel more at ease with men in general (although I can still get a little nervous around one that I like). I think a real masculine man enjoys being around a real feminine woman. But AA would say that even a page or knight will still react positively to feminine attention (even if they are not in a place to create partnership with such a woman). I am learning to release expectations of men. The right one will and the wrong ones won't...I don't have to stress. My job is just to be as open and inviting and feminine as I can. If he doesn't rise up, it's not a diss or a fail. He just wasn't the right one.
 
Belle Du Jour said:
Awesome example!

This may sound counter to everything we are supposed to believe, but I think men need their egos stroked. We think they already get enough ego-stroking but it's so common to male-bash in society that I don't think they get enough positive reinforcement and encouragement. It's not about being subservient or fake but truly appreciating them for what they do and creating that space for them to rise up (if they choose).

I definitely feel more at ease with men in general (although I can still get a little nervous around one that I like). I think a real masculine man enjoys being around a real feminine woman. But AA would say that even a page or knight will still react positively to feminine attention (even if they are not in a place to create partnership with such a woman). I am learning to release expectations of men. The right one will and the wrong ones won't...I don't have to stress. My job is just to be as open and inviting and feminine as I can. If he doesn't rise up, it's not a diss or a fail. He just wasn't the right one.
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What a wonderful mindset to have and a great way to go through dating. :) I love your mindset. Idk if you're married already or single & dating, but that OPEN mindset will definitely draw men to you like flies to honey. I'm learning to put down my sword, remain open and inviting, and stop expecting to change men. The RIGHT man will show up. I don't have to "do" anything to change him. Either he's the right guy for me, or he isn't. All I have to do is focus on myself, focus on not FF, being the best that I can be, and like a magnet, the RIGHT guy will be drawn to me eventually. It's just like a magnet.


I agree with you too in that I think male bashing/put-downs has become so commonplace and "normalized" in our society, that we don't even pick up on it half the time. But this book has definitely opened my eyes to it and has made me not only more aware, but also more sensitive to it when it happens. And I DO think men need ego stroking every once in a while! So true. It actually drives home the fact that when men cheat, very rarely is it about LOOKS. How many times have we seen a man cheat with a woman who wasn't even half as attractive or "together" as his wife?? True, men will sleep with anything lol, but sometimes it really is about how a woman makes him FEEL. I'm not condoning cheating in any way shape or form. Some men cheat just for "variety" and because they can. But I think some cheat because they really do feel like they're missing "something" at home.

I definitely feel a lot more relaxed around men when I'm more in my feminine and being OPEN.


Here's a question (playing a little devil's advocate here).... Aren't there some men though who actually ENJOY "Frog Farming"?? The reason why I ask is because it seems as though SOME men (especially AA men) tend to like that "feisty" woman who talks down to him, playfully banters with him, gives him the 3rd degree, and likes to stir up "drama". They consider a woman who is drama-free as "boring". What about THOSE men? Are they also swayed by a "feminine" non-Frog-Farming woman? Would TQC techniques work on them? Or will those men forever prefer women who give them a little "excitement" by being feisty/talking down to him/causing a big scene, etc?
 
@Crystalicequeen123
To answer your question, yes; and there are men that cultivate the "farming" activities.
From what I remember the only real guidance given by AA concerning how to handle bad men (real frogs) is to preferably [stay away from them], or assume there's a good reason for their behavior; and/or always remember to hold on to YOUR femininity. [Easier said than done!!!!]

I worked/lived with a bunch of men that fit the description you provided above. Between that and my early home life....OMG The learned behaviors are difficult to unlearn.


ETA: Proof that Frogs do exist....https://www.longhaircareforum.com/t...a-2nd-date-or-nah.790745/page-2#post-22675787
It's a shame we have to prepare our young ladies for such follies....SMDH
 
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Crystalicequeen123 said:
What a wonderful mindset to have and a great way to go through dating. :) I love your mindset. Idk if you're married already or single & dating, but that OPEN mindset will definitely draw men to you like flies to honey. I'm learning to put down my sword, remain open and inviting, and stop expecting to change men. The RIGHT man will show up. I don't have to "do" anything to change him. Either he's the right guy for me, or he isn't. All I have to do is focus on myself, focus on not FF, being the best that I can be, and like a magnet, the RIGHT guy will be drawn to me eventually. It's just like a magnet.


I agree with you too in that I think male bashing/put-downs has become so commonplace and "normalized" in our society, that we don't even pick up on it half the time. But this book has definitely opened my eyes to it and has made me not only more aware, but also more sensitive to it when it happens. And I DO think men need ego stroking every once in a while! So true. It actually drives home the fact that when men cheat, very rarely is it about LOOKS. How many times have we seen a man cheat with a woman who wasn't even half as attractive or "together" as his wife?? True, men will sleep with anything lol, but sometimes it really is about how a woman makes him FEEL. I'm not condoning cheating in any way shape or form. Some men cheat just for "variety" and because they can. But I think some cheat because they really do feel like they're missing "something" at home.

I definitely feel a lot more relaxed around men when I'm more in my feminine and being OPEN.


Here's a question (playing a little devil's advocate here).... Aren't there some men though who actually ENJOY "Frog Farming"?? The reason why I ask is because it seems as though SOME men (especially AA men) tend to like that "feisty" woman who talks down to him, playfully banters with him, gives him the 3rd degree, and likes to stir up "drama". They consider a woman who is drama-free as "boring". What about THOSE men? Are they also swayed by a "feminine" non-Frog-Farming woman? Would TQC techniques work on them? Or will those men forever prefer women who give them a little "excitement" by being feisty/talking down to him/causing a big scene, etc?
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I think there are men who think that's supposed to be normal. Or they like that little game of getting angry then making up. I think those men might be immature and I wouldn't be interested in those kind of men. Just my opinion. Not sure if TQC would work on them...
 
I've mentioned but can't find where AA describes different types of relationships. I was wowed when she listed and detailed the descriptions of different relationships.
I think it is good idea to know what the types are; which one you'd like to be in; and to be able to determine what type of relationship [expectations] a potential partner has; especially when you're determining your dating purpose..

While searching for AA's I found the following site which lists 23 types of relationships (not all are "healthy"); IIRC this is way more than AA listed but THIS is a VERY THOROUGH LIST and I figured I'd share it here.:flowers:


An example of a few are:

#1 The codependent relationship. Do you need your partner to function efficiently in your life? This is the kind of relationship where you’re too dependent on your partner, and completely rely on them to help you with your decision making.

#2 The controlling relationship. One partner plays a dominant role in the romance, while the other partner just follows the rules. You may not realize you’re being dominated for a very long time, until you start getting frustrated and feeling helpless.


#5 The negotiation relationship. Both of you are happy with each other, but every now and then, there are a lot of negotiations and compromises from both sides just to keep the other partner happy.

#6 Toxic relationships. Toxic relationships are relationships that seem pleasant from the outside, but for some unexplainable reason, they suck the life and happiness out of you. You’re frustrated or annoyed most of the time, and you have no idea why.


#10 The sexual affair. You’re in the relationship only for the sex. There’s no emotional connection and you just don’t care about building the love. You’re sexually infatuated by your partner, and you don’t care how they treat you as long as you get physical intimacy.




#14 The long distance relationship. Both of you love each other and are connected to each other emotionally. But physically, both of you live in two different area codes and share minimal physical intimacy. You’d have to deal with insecurities and jealously, and several bouts of suspicion now and then.

#15 The complicated relationship. Complicated relationships are the trickiest kind of relationships. Both partners may know that things aren’t perfect in loveland, either because of the involvement of a third person, or because of the incompatibility, but yet both of you have no idea how to fix the issue or deal with it.



#17 Friends with benefits. The friends with benefits relationship is a completely no strings attached agreement between two people, where there’s sexual intimacy and nothing more. But almost every single time, one or both partners end up falling in love. The fact that both of you only hooked up for casual sex in the first place makes it very easy for both of you to feel insecure in this relationship.

#18 The love-hate relationship. There’s loads of chemistry and sexual attraction in this relationship. But as much as there is love and passion, there’s the same amount of hate and frustration. Both of you are crazy about each other, and yet, can’t stand each other at times. This can be fun for a while, but unless both of you fix the issue, it’ll start to get very tiresome in the long run.
 
OK just ordered the book.
I've started actually dating(not just saying I will be dating :giggle:)
And I realize I really don't know how to relate to men(or women either probably) so I'm struggling a bit. I can't decide if I should read this one, the femininity one, or a book called you look like something blooming first.

I know whenever I get married I want peace, not constant squabbling and power struggling.

I love my mother forever, but she was not able to teach me one useful thing about the type of relationship I would like. And I have no other women to observe or relate with. Any other book or class recommendations? I'll be reading through the thread throughout reading the book since it seems like a discussion thread.
 
nlamr2013 said:
OK just ordered the book.
I've started actually dating(not just saying I will be dating :giggle:)
And I realize I really don't know how to relate to men(or women either probably) so I'm struggling a bit. I can't decide if I should read this one, the femininity one, or a book called you look like something blooming first.

I know whenever I get married I want peace, not constant squabbling and power struggling.

I love my mother forever, but she was not able to teach me one useful thing about the type of relationship I would like. And I have no other women to observe or relate with. Any other book or class recommendations? I'll be reading through the thread throughout reading the book since it seems like a discussion thread.
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This one is a great start. It sure transformed the way I relate to men!
 
Kim0105 said:
This one is a great start. It sure transformed the way I relate to men!
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I'm liking it so far I've gotten the chance to read up until the beginning of part 3.
So far the narrative style is a bit awkward at times but I'm enjoying it. I'm going to do the homeworks lol
But preliminarily I know I don't really have much experience relating personally to men outside my step dad. But I can definitely see myself frog farming him.
Also the listening thing. I cut people off a lot trying to 0redict what it is they're trying to say vs just letting them say it lol!
Also the part about women being outwardly focused so me!! I was just saying this the other day because I'll be all neat tidy and pseudo ocd in the presence of others but my room bag all my personal area are a wreck!

And I also do feel that when I don't get a certain response from a man its because I'm not perfect. But duh I could never be. I'm enjoying this so far.

Oh and I decided to read this book and the blooming book concurrently
QC is digital so I can read it anywhere anyhow with little effort. So good for times when I'm in transit the other is hardcopy so I can read it in the tub or lying in bed. Lol

Last thought: I also really like the symbol on the pages. I've been contemplating a tattoo of a crown for a few weeks now but I may get the crown I was going to get set atop a heart outline I like that.
 
k Really liking this.
I'll read this once for introduction and again slower for internalization
But when I was reading the castrate bit I realized I emasculate men by ignoring them. Especially men I know are fond of me. I'll have to journal to figure out the root. Without thinking too much I would assume I'm shutting them out before they have a chance to leave me or affect me emotionally like building a wall by keeping them all he way out I never have to worry about being hurt emotionally or embarrassed.

But I have a little progress report so today at my work I purposely made sure to not ignore my male coworkers. They all seemed much more receptive and one of them gave me a piece of fruit lol seems so small but by me not ignoring his existence it made him want to provide nourishment for my body.
I still had some trouble. So I'll probably challenge myself this weekend d to whenever I feel anyone looking at me instead of studiously ignoring them I will just give a nice bright smile. It's going g to be tough but yeah just saying good morning to both the men and women today had everyone much more pleasant with me vs other days. People were more open to chatting and relating.


I need to find some local people to have book club with because I think something like this is best done with support. And a springboard to bounce ideas off of.
 
nlamr2013 said:
Oh last thing is the group still active? Can I be added lol I felt like I'm talking to myself in here.
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@nlamr2013
The book club is pretty dead now and has been dead for a while. I would suggest that you @ some of the people in this thread when you post or even consider starting a brand new thread and see if you can get a new group of people to join you, and perhaps you and that new group can start your own book club? Good luck to you with everything.
 
Pre ETA: add that everything below sounds like #2 & #18 of my Types of Relationships post @#853 above.
__________________________________________

Okay ladies how do you deal with a busy "mature man" that prefers to text, rather than "speak"? .....to the point that he feels he can reserve a weekend (because he's off then) via text, and got way up in his feelings when it didn't happen (because I'm mainly self-employed) and he had neither picked up the phone to call nor had he communicated
.....any plans other than [via text] "I'd like to see you this weekend".
My answer was to say "it could happen but here's my schedule....." He didn't provide any deets/plans, so as the week went on I filled the holes that was in my schedule.

Despite my request for a phone call; and the fact that we'd not spoken since around 6 July
  • .....earlier this week he sent me a "butt-hurt" text, with a backhanded insult,
  • I respond and asked him was he angry when he sent that text...He said "No..(blah blah blah) everythings got to be on [ivonnovi's] terms.....blah blah I'll call you later......"
  • Two days later I responded with a text asking him when he'd like to meet to retrieve his coffee cup.
  • He responded with something along the lines of: I want you back, but you don't seem to want to belong to anybody, I'll let you know
It's now a few day's later and weekend #3; we've still not spoken.
I'm not worried so much about him cheating as I am about him being confused about the "Role of a Woman" and him being inflexible.
From what I can tell he thinks they should be SUBMISSIVE (like the 1950's/sleeping at his feet); always available for what HE WANTs TO DO (activities, not necessarily sex), and put him first, he has control issues (& ain't working on them).
IVONNOVI ain't about that life.

Really, according to TQC we are supposed to assume there are good reasons for most of what MEN DO. I know why he has this attitude; I just .....well I just can neither re-program him, nor can I program him.

I didn't swing the sword, but lord knows I wanted to. Instead I'm busying myself with things I need to get done/accomplish/and of course working.
 
I'm currently reading this book, but I want to know when does Claudia mention how to deal with "dangerous men?" I just got out of a situation with a guy and I'm not sure if the book so far is making me sympathize and put all the blame on myself. He was a troubled person and seemed to reacted with everyone in a very angry way when they did something he did not like.

Background: He seemed to have tumultuous interactions with Frog Farming, heavily emasculating (yelling, screaming, hitting, talking down to him, etc.) women in his life, including women in his family. From the beginning he was immediately defense when we argued. He would yell, cut me off continuously and presume how I would finish my sentences which was waaaaaay opposite of what I was going to say; I felt like my character was constantly being attacked. I never yelled back, spoke to him in a normal tone, and would allow him to finish when he cut me off. He would talk about past relationships and how he didn't want to deal/repeat the past. During arguments it was like I was always an enemy, a threat and nothing I said mattered. He would say very hurtful things, including disparaging names (I never followed suit). This has been the formula of our disagreements from day one, nearly every argument over a several month period. Is there such thing as someone dealing with so many emasculating women that they by default assume ALL women are naturally emasculating? In this situation, How is it my fault? Im not trying to put blame on solely him, but I have trouble say its my fault.
 
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Should I get it?

Is it too late to join? I saw great reviews on Amazon, and I trust you ladies choice in books.
 
*~*Afrolicious*~* said:
I'm currently reading this book, but I want to know when does Claudia mention how to deal with "dangerous men?" I just got out of a situation with a guy and I'm not sure if the book so far is making me sympathize and put all the blame on myself for a man that seemed very to reacted with everyone in a very angry way when they did something he did not like.

Background: He seemed to have tumultuous interactions with Frog Farming, heavily emasculating (yelling, screaming, hitting, talking down to him, etc.) women in his life, including women in his family. From the beginning he was immediately defense when we argued. He would yell, cut me off continuously and presume how I would finish my sentences which was waaaaaay opposite of what I was going to say; I felt like my character was constantly being attacked. I never yelled back, spoke to him in a normal tone, and would allow him to finish when he cut me off. He would talk about past relationships and how he didn't want to deal want to repeat the past. During arguments it was like I was always an enemy, a threat and nothing I said mattered. He would say very hurtful things, including disparaging names (I never followed suit). This has been the formula of our interaction from day one, nearly every argument over a several month period. Is there such thing as someone dealing with so many emasculating women that they by default assume ALL women are naturally emasculating? In this situation, How is it my fault? Im not trying to put blame on solely him, but I don't want to blame my self for abusive behavior that has nothing to do with me.
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This is my concern with TQC. The guy you describe is a dangerous and abusive man. Why he behaves this way is not your fault or your concern. TQC only works in my opinion with healthy, loving men. Otherwise you will only be feeding the ego of a misogynist, giving him permission to hurt you. The book talks a lot about setting standards, knowing yourself, and taking good care of yourself, etc. But I think it may give false hope that a woman has some kind of magical power over most men.

I think the most important lesson should always be that a woman feel good about herself and feel safe with the man in her life. An abusive man should be avoided. All the sweet talk and swords down won't heal a man who wants to yell and intimidate.
 
hopeful said:
This is my concern with TQC. The guy you describe is a dangerous and abusive man. Why he behaves this way is not your fault or your concern. TQC only works in my opinion with healthy, loving men. Otherwise you will only be feeding the ego of a misogynist, giving him permission to hurt you. The book talks a lot about setting standards, knowing yourself, and taking good care of yourself, etc. But I think it may give false hope that a woman has some kind of magical power over most men.

I think the most important lesson should always be that a woman feel good about herself and feel safe with the man in her life. An abusive man should be avoided. All the sweet talk and swords down won't heal a man who wants to yell and intimidate.
Click to expand...

In the book they talk about how how if a man yells and throws objects or punch walls that he's essentially letting go of frustration that he built up from a woman's emasculating tendencies. It then touched very lightly on domestic abuse and maybe its not the fault of the man. the book blames domestic abuse on emasculating women. At the point in the book I had to stop and reach out to you all. I ended things permanently when, among other things, he threatened to hit me. This book is telling me I caused it all this to happen. I don't know how me behaving consistently in the manner of my previous post and trying to communicate to him my feelings (things he was against b/c feelings are fleeting and aren't "centered in reality," yet he failed to realize anger is also an emotion.) is again, MY FAULT.

I am very hard on myself naturally. I'm disappointed in myself that I got involved with someone with these tendencies. Even though didn't physically hit me, I can see how women could stay in domestic abuse situations. Are good was better than any connection I've experienced, but the bad was really bad.

In the book, Kim's married friend who emasculated her husband for years got really offended that he offended her in front of his coworkers. The book says she deserved that due to her years of emasculating actions.

How do I know its not my fault???
 
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