The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

[Ivonnovi]

@*~*Afrolicious*~* I share your concerns, I'll just repost an earlier post of mine here.

To answer your question, yes; and there are men that cultivate the "farming" activities.
From what I remember the only real guidance given by AA concerning how to handle bad men (real frogs) is to preferably [stay away from them], or assume there's a good reason for their behavior; and/or always remember to hold on to YOUR femininity. [Easier said than done!!!!]

I worked/lived with a bunch of men that fit the description you provided above. Between that and my early home life....OMG The learned behaviors are difficult to unlearn.


ETA: Proof that Frogs do exist....https://www.longhaircareforum.com/t...a-2nd-date-or-nah.790745/page-2#post-22675787
It's a shame we have to prepare our young ladies for such follies....SMDH

Some of us have to learn to discern these characteristics EARLY, and keep them at a distance. It sounds to me that you held on to YOUR FEMININITY despite his awful behavior.

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

@*~*Afrolicious*~* I share your concerns, I'll just repost an earlier post of mine here.




Some of us have to learn to discern these characteristics EARLY, and keep them at a distance. It sounds to me that you held on to YOUR FEMININITY despite his awful behavior.

Thank you. I really hate that my emotional side is trying to reason with abusive behavior and I'm starting to think I'm the cause of this.

 

[ladysaraii]

In the book, Kim's married friend who emasculated her husband for years got really offended that he offended her in front of his coworkers. The book says she deserved that due to her years of emasculating actions.

How do I know its not my fault???

This was one thing I never agreed with. I think they were both wrong that night. If my husband did that to me, I probably would have lost my composure too.

 

[Ivonnovi]

The only role you have played (IMHO) was to tolerate behaviors and situations that made you [uncomfortable]. Don't try to normalize unacceptable behavior; you can try to address it & give him a chance to fix it; but then there's limits to that too.

Emotions will have us play games with ourselves; like thinking if "we" loved them more "they will [eventually] return said "love". This is like trying to fill a pot with gaping holes; the holes must1st be repaired/patched ...or discard the pot.
I'm of the opinion that things were already pretty ugly before this last altercation that escalated to his teen daughter being involved.
Don't beat yourself up (that was a toxic situation). The answer to the problems between you all won't be found in AA's book, but the content can help you grow-on and go forth with the tools to develop healthier relationships (and BOUNDARIES) in the future.

 

[BK Bombshell]

In the book they talk about how how if a man yells and throws objects or punch walls that he's essentially letting go of frustration that he built up from a woman's emasculating tendencies. It then touched very lightly on domestic abuse and maybe its not the fault of the man. the book blames domestic abuse on emasculating women. At the point in the book I had to stop and reach out to you all. I ended things permanently when, among other things, he threatened to hit me. This book is telling me I caused it all this to happen. I don't know how me behaving consistently in the manner of my previous post and trying to communicate to him my feelings (things he was against b/c feelings are fleeting and aren't "centered in reality," yet he failed to realize anger is also an emotion.) is again, MY FAULT.

How do I know its not my fault???

It's not your fault because it's NEVER your fault when someone abuses you. That's on the abuser. Your responsibility is to get out of the situation as soon as possible and keep yourself safe and intact.

I also have big problems with Alison's "defense" of abuse. I felt like she was letting men off the hook. She did talk about her own domestic violence situation, but I don't remember where or how she came to conclude it was her fault.

In your case, even if he has been emasculated by all the other women in his life, it's not your responsibility to rehabilitate him. You deserve better. If he has all that built up frustration to release, then he should take up a sport or go find another way to discharge that energy. Using you as a figurative punching bag is not helping either of you.

Abusive men will twist your mind into thinking that you're causing their escalating bad behavior and, while I have seen toxic couples who feed on each others anger and contempt, many times it's one sided. I'm glad you left because your situation does not sound healthy at all; in fact it sounded like it was spiraling downwards fast. And please know that the "good" is never enough to outweigh the "bad" in these situations; it's usually just enough to keep you hanging on until you have no self-esteem or sense of self-preservation left.

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

It's not your fault because it's NEVER your fault when someone abuses you. That's on the abuser. Your responsibility is to get out of the situation as soon as possible and keep yourself safe and intact.

I also have big problems with Alison's "defense" of abuse. I felt like she was letting men off the hook. She did talk about her own domestic violence situation, but I don't remember where or how she came to conclude it was her fault.

In your case, even if he has been emasculated by all the other women in his life, it's not your responsibility to rehabilitate him. You deserve better. If he has all that built up frustration to release, then he should take up a sport or go find another way to discharge that energy. Using you as a figurative punching bag is not helping either of you.

Abusive men will twist your mind into thinking that you're causing their escalating bad behavior and, while I have seen toxic couples who feed on each others anger and contempt, many times it's one sided. I'm glad you left because your situation does not sound healthy at all; in fact it sounded like it was spiraling downwards fast. And please know that the "good" is never enough to outweigh the "bad" in these situations; it's usually just enough to keep you hanging on until you have no self-esteem or sense of self-preservation left.

Saving this so I can remind myself. Thank you all ladies. We should never have persued a relationship. He told me early he wasn't ready but we both persued a relationship anyway because energetically we just seemed to pull and gel together in a way that we've never experienced other partners (the good). We choose our emotions and fell in love when the situation wasn't right and the bad was really bad as a result. You are right I shouldn't have to, nor do I ever want to rehabilitate a man. I hope he's able to take the time and heal for himself.

 

[hopeful]

Saving this so I can remind myself. Thank you all ladies. We should never have persued a relationship. He told me early he wasn't ready but we both persued a relationship anyway because energetically we just seemed to pull and gel together in a way that we've never experienced other partners (the good). We choose our emotions and fell in love when the situation wasn't right and the bad was really bad as a result. You are right I shouldn't have to, nor do I ever want to rehabilitate a man. I hope he's able to take the time and heal for himself.

You felt such a strong pull because his energy is dark and yours is light. I've also read that instant attraction and wanting to be together quickly is actually about poor boundaries because it takes time to really get to know a person.

 

[caribeandiva]

Should I get it?

Is it too late to join? I saw great reviews on Amazon, and I trust you ladies choice in books.

Yes get it!! We can discuss anytime you want

 

[caribeandiva]

I'm currently reading this book, but I want to know when does Claudia mention how to deal with "dangerous men?" I just got out of a situation with a guy and I'm not sure if the book so far is making me sympathize and put all the blame on myself. He was a troubled person and seemed to reacted with everyone in a very angry way when they did something he did not like.

Background: He seemed to have tumultuous interactions with Frog Farming, heavily emasculating (yelling, screaming, hitting, talking down to him, etc.) women in his life, including women in his family. From the beginning he was immediately defense when we argued. He would yell, cut me off continuously and presume how I would finish my sentences which was waaaaaay opposite of what I was going to say; I felt like my character was constantly being attacked. I never yelled back, spoke to him in a normal tone, and would allow him to finish when he cut me off. He would talk about past relationships and how he didn't want to deal/repeat the past. During arguments it was like I was always an enemy, a threat and nothing I said mattered. He would say very hurtful things, including disparaging names (I never followed suit). This has been the formula of our disagreements from day one, nearly every argument over a several month period. Is there such thing as someone dealing with so many emasculating women that they by default assume ALL women are naturally emasculating? In this situation, How is it my fault? Im not trying to put blame on solely him, but I have trouble say its my fault.

You are taking way too much responsibility here! None of this is your fault. Allison's teachings only work on HEALTHY men. She emphasizes that repeatedly in her interviews and other online audios. I really hope she rewrites TQC with a chapter on dangerous men or dedicates the 3rd book of the trilogy solely to that topic.

This dude you are dealing with needs help, psychological help, that you were never meant to nor are equipped to provide him. You must leave this abusive situation and let him get his crap together on his own. You don't deserve to be treated the way you have been treated. You are a precious jewel who should be treasured as such. You can do it.

 

[caribeandiva]

The only role you have played (IMHO) was to tolerate behaviors and situations that made you [uncomfortable]. Don't try to normalize unacceptable behavior; you can try to address it & give him a chance to fix it; but then there's limits to that too.

Emotions will have us play games with ourselves; like thinking if "we" loved them more "they will [eventually] return said "love". This is like trying to fill a pot with gaping holes; the holes must1st be repaired/patched ...or discard the pot.
I'm of the opinion that things were already pretty ugly before this last altercation that escalated to his teen daughter being involved.
Don't beat yourself up (that was a toxic situation). The answer to the problems between you all won't be found in AA's book, but the content can help you grow-on and go forth with the tools to develop healthier relationships (and BOUNDARIES) in the future.

Yes to all of this especially the bolded. Boundaries are not a luxury. They are mandatory for good, healthy relationships.

 

[Kimbosheart]

wonderful responses. I completely agree that her teaching on dangerous men is problematic. And that's putting it lightly. It's irresponsible of her to not explain her position further so that readers can concretely agree or disagree. @hopeful @Ivonnovi and @bk _bombshell have explained the conclusions we came to perfectly. It is never your fault and AA's teachings are transforming but only on an emotionally and mentally healthy and mature man.

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

Thank you all for all your kind words. I realize that I may need to pause with reading this book until I can heal and let go of him.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

You are taking way too much responsibility here! None of this is your fault. Allison's teachings only work on HEALTHY men. She emphasizes that repeatedly in her interviews and other online audios. I really hope she rewrites TQC with a chapter on dangerous men or dedicates the 3rd book of the trilogy solely to that topic.

I think this is true. If a man has low self esteem, he won't respond the way he should. He may feel warm and fuzzy for a short time after you affirm him, but it won't inspire him to make a move. I think he'll always be looking for more signs of interest. He might not really think a woman is interested in him or that he deserves her. :-(

 

[MrsMe]

So far, I'm up to Chapter 3 and I have learned a lot of information already.
I am/was definitely a Frog Farmer and emasculated men, including DH, around me constantly. However, I am having a hard time dealing with the fact that I have evolved and that my DH is moving at a slower pace than me. It brings up feelings of resentment.
I don't want to castrate him by telling him what to do, when and how. I want to have faith in him and believe that he will lead his own path but I have made him too dependent on my organizational skills.
Does the book expand on that?
Ironically enough, I had already started to change my attitude towards men before I found this gem of a thread and bought the book, and their behaviors were completely different from what I'd experienced. I definitely feel like they want to protect me and appreciate talking to me, rather than at me, if that makes sense.
The only negative for me so far is the fact that I feel women are burdened with more responsibility than men in terms of the outcomes of our relationships. I am getting the impression that everything will go right if I make it go right or if I act right. What about the men's responsibility?
I'm rambling all over the place because I still can't say confidently that "I give up the right to castrate men forever". I'm stuck in my reading until I can accept that.

 

[Damaris.Elle]

Just bought this book today...interesting so far!

 

[mzpurp]

I just got this book on Friday. Still haven't started it but will be doing so very soon!

 

[GeorginaSparks]

I backslid. Need to re-read

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

UPDATE: I went on a little mini vacation and have been reading Natalie Lue's (Baggage Reclaim) book on Mr. Unavailables. Im pretty much over that a-hole , but I want to finish the book and reflect so I can learn from the past. THEN I will start reading this book again. Thank you ladies for your words, they helped me realize objectively how bad the situation I got out of really was.

 

[hopeful]

UPDATE: I went on a little mini vacation and have been reading Natalie Lue's (Baggage Reclaim) book on Mr. Unavailables. Im pretty much over that a-hole , but I want to finish the book and reflect so I can learn from the past. THEN I will start reading this book again. Thank you ladies for your words, they helped me realize objectively how bad the situation I got out of really was.

Please please check out the men don't love women like you thread.

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

Please please check out the men don't love women like you thread.

Why do you recommend this thread? It seems there are a lot of mixed reviews on the book and the experience level and age of the author. Is what he's saying any better or different then whats written in The Queen's Code?

 

[hopeful]

Why do you recommend this thread? It seems there are a lot of mixed reviews on the book and the experience level and age of the author. Is what he's saying any better or different then whats written in The Queen's Code?

Ok, well, I have a lot more to share about how I feel about TQC after putting it to use for a few months. I'm not ready to fully share yet. But let's just say that in the end TQC led me to thinking more like the author of men don't love women like you. Without ever hearing about the book I had already started evolving from living a fairy tale to moving into reality. From being a victim to being a real queen. From being told to taking control. Without TQC I'm not sure I would have started this shift. TQC is profound and it works -- but it also doesn't. And in that space where it doesn't is where I was literally forced to shift and open my eyes to reality, to how many men really are (including my dh) and how many women really are (including myself).

Sorry for being vague. Hopefully you get what I'm saying. If not, just know in the end all I care about is us winning.

 

[BK Bombshell]

I haven't read the other book yet, but from what I see in the thread, it looks like it fills the gap between being a frog farmer and a doormat.

The thing with TQC is that it works with healthy males and for healthy women. If you have low self-esteem and/or no self confidence, you don't need someone to tell you to be nicer and more patient b/c chances are that's not the problem. The problem is that you're being "nice" from a place of fear and weakness to men who are no good to or for you and you need to become more assertive. And as we mentioned above, trying to use TQC on an unhealthy or abusive male is not a good idea; it's chumming the water for a shark.

The other book sounds like it helps you work on your discernment so that you won't even entertain men that are not healthy. That way you're starting on better footing if you want to use TQC. The thing with TQC is that like @hopeful mentioned, you have theory and then you have real life. I try to use TQC whenever possible, but it just does not work on every man. MDLWLY sounds like it helps you weed out men that are not worth it and then you can use TQC with the ones that are. HTH

 

[Kimbosheart]

They hit the nail on the head. I'm listening to the other book. I love TQC and AA's teachings. I think they especially work if you're trying to turn a relationship around or if you've got a man to practice on. This book seems to take it outside of that realm and work on you before a man enters the picture.

 

[caribeandiva]

They hit the nail on the head. I'm listening to the other book. I love TQC and AA's teachings. I think they especially work if you're trying to turn a relationship around or if you've got a man to practice on. This book seems to take it outside of that realm and work on you before a man enters the picture.

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

Thanks ladies for clarifying!

 

[Ivonnovi]

I've been listening to parts of KTTK again, the following "quote" stood out to me yesterday. ....

From Chapter 6. We [women] need attention, and we want our man to appreciate [us], & some times complete [us]. "A woman's strength is in her ability to adapt, the downside is that sometimes we adapt so much we literately loose ourselves. [We ]have to keep [our] individual passions alive or we forget who we are"
​

Falling into the trap of the bolded will lead to both disappointment and frustration. IMHO the quote is as applicable to work choices as it is to relationships.

Add to it that many of us "women" actually go through the same masculine phases as described in KTTK; especially if you're in a male-dominated field (the Military for example). She describes how one (a man) can enter a career field to make ends meet and even excel in that field; but, not be happy or content with it because it's not their "passion". This situation often leads to the lifestyle [shifts/corrections] changes that are often referred to as the "mid-life crises". THE TRUTH IS THAT The individual has actually just decided to DO/PURSUE what they are passionate about ["get their life" as you all say].

Another Ah-ha moment for me.
Enjoy a good day ladies!

 

[Ivonnovi]

/\/\ Update.......I'm getting tired.

Me and Ex......"let's call him EXhausting" 'tain't gonna work. ..... Weeks ago I shared that I WAS NOT going to get used to being treated a certain way, neither was I going to put up with certain behaviors.
I've tried to keep it Queenly, KTTKish and left my sword at bay. BUT as it has been pointed out many of the relationship tactics discussed in the book are effective only on "healthy" men and of course when used by healthy (& strong) women.

I have not learned how to fight fair with crazy folks......​

I am just learning of these Keys and of my place as the Queen in my Kingdom.
.....I tried the ...QC language, redirecting....& everso politely let him know I'd been quietly seething for the past week over an issue. THEN the event's of this past weekend had me like this (as I tried to fade to black from this relationship):

Honestly that was my queenly look I had as my internal voice was repeating "don't cut him, don't cut him....back away from the sword".

He has been aloof about his employer, yet he want's me to move in. In an effort to show how ridiculous his request was I retorted with the fact that he's asking ME to do alot even though he can't reveal basic info (sarcasm). Dude told me "it don't matter, all that matters is that we Love each other"..."I have a decent job......." MY Mind went blank as internally I was like:

..... We went on to have a pleasant evening depsite me being so direct as to state he'll understand better when he notices his bone is dry; and I've not responded to his communications since then......until I responded with a "this relationship text isn't going to work for me" text inside which I addressed my concerns and made it clear that I was no longer interested in the answers.....
......He's responded with a "you've got it all wrong" text.......
.....

 

[Ivonnovi]

/\/\ Update.......I'm getting tired.

Me and Ex......"let's call him EXhausting" 'tain't gonna work. ..... Weeks ago I shared [with him] that I WAS NOT going to get used to being treated a certain way, neither was I going to put up with certain behaviors.
.....I have not learned how to fight fair with crazy folks........
.....

I just had to come back in with another Update regarding the bolded. Maybe I have by implementing 1-3 below.
BTW: YES, we are done da'done done DONE!!!!!

KTTK/TQC applicable Lessons learned: ​

1. Maintain your FEMININITY AT ALL TIMES
2. Don't ignore your gut instincts.
3. The lessons in AA's book won't Fix the men, they are designed to help fix how WE WOMEN relate to them. IF these fixes repair relationships "Yay" that is wonderful. [I went back to him to see if I could fix our badly derailed relationship]
   
4. If possible, DO NOT entertain folks who you presume to be "Bad"
5. When it is time to move away from the relationship, "move away from the relationship"
6. Just because you recognize & respect the stages of development; does not mean you have to accept qualities that are not a good fit for you.

 

[caribeandiva]

He has been aloof about his employer, yet he want's me to move in.

Yeah that's a red flag. This dude is playing games and acting shady af. Good thing you left. He responded with a you got it all wrong text. I don't see how you misunderstood his behaviors. He's clearly showing you by withholding information from you that's something's up. No I will not move in with you! No, I will not keep having this conversation with you! No, I will not put up with anymore of your BS!! Now away with you and your shenanigans. I deserve better.

 

[Ivonnovi]

Yeah that's a red flag. This dude is playing games and acting shady af. Good thing you left. He responded with a you got it all wrong text. I don't see how you misunderstood his behaviors. He's clearly showing you by withholding information from you that's something's up. No I will not move in with you! No, I will not keep having this conversation with you! No, I will not put up with anymore of your BS!! Now away with you and your shenanigans. I deserve better.

He wrote me a lengthy email which confirmed that the job thing was a pride issue but didn't include who it is; he tried to say a few positive things however each one was heavily discounted in follow-on statements .…he didn’t “feel worthy of me"….but I keep "making him mad"...he Loves me...."but I don't want to be accountable to anyone".....

AA described this as a man trying to break a woman down into a more manageable image/personality…..


Through his communications and communications style (accused me of being "in my "fu*king* feelings") he unwittingly illustrated my problems with him:

A delicate EGO, protected by insecurities and control issues;

combine that with being both stubborn and having an unhealthy unwillingness to change

= *********!!!​

​

I giddily responded to his email & ASSuptions line-by-line using words that will probably send him to the dictionaryto fully comprehend what I was communicating.


I felt bad about going the bookworm route but ......There's a saying:

NEVER DO BATTLE WITH A MENTAL [or emotional] MIDGET

For they will DRAG YOU DOWN to their level and BEAT YOU WITH THEIR EXPERIENCE.​

I feel that I tried to DRAG HIM UP!!!! I did a happydance , pressed Send then: (<that's me keeping it moving)

* In everyday convo or BS sessions I curse like a sailor; however when it comes to serious stuff....I do not. No one in a relationship should have to tell their partner NOT2CURSE at them. This was a line I drew in the sand from Day 1; it was on my list of stuff I wouldn't tolerate, ALONG with the warning that
"IF YOU CATCH me directing that kind of language at you, you can stick a fork in it because I AM DONE".