The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

[Flourishnikov]

So far, the workshop is mind blowing to say the least. The idea that a man being single-focused and needing to concentrate on one thing at a time makes so much sense! She also mentioned that a guy is focused on the date or outing being a success and is only concerned if the woman has a good time.

I mentioned a situation in the feminine belle thread that puzzled me but I think it might now make sense: Feminine Belles - Info/discussion/support Thread

Initially I was shocked that he would suggest that she leave since it was night and would be leaving alone. But even though it wasn't a one on one date, if in his mind, he thought she wasn't having a good time, maybe he felt responsible and was trying to give her an out. I don't know the nature of their relationship though...Initially I was like not cool! From a guy's perspective, maybe he was just trying to be polite? It's not totally making sense, but there probably was a reason for asking her that...

Anyway, I would like to get other people's thoughts. I notice that now I'm a very keen observer of behavior between men and women. I was going to just write him off as rude but I think I was wrong. . .

Please elaborate more on men being "single-focused". Ive always said that when a man is ready to get married or get into a relationship, it is a conscious choice he is making and not by happenstance, so he will take the necessary steps to achieve his goal. Does the workshop suggest that "single-focused" men are purposely obtuse, inconsistent, etc., because they arent ready for a meaningful relationship although they still entertain the company of women?

I read your post in the Feminine Belles thread and I can totally relate. I have been in situations with men where they didnt respond to my femininity and its puzzling at best, but Im learning to not take it personally. Im now realizing that I was able to "train" this one guy on how to be more responsive to my femininity, but now Im wondering why he wasnt responsive in the first place.

Regarding your situation specifically, Ive learned that men process situations/info a lot differently from women, so its very possible he thought he was doing you a favor, while you thought he was being rude. Is it possible for you to ask him directly for clarification?

 

[Belle Du Jour]

That's true. I never thought of it like that.

I'll be observing their interactions more closely

Anyhoo, there is a young AA frog farmer at my job. She speaks to this one guy (who's actually her superior) very rudely and condescendingly. I heard her talking about him and she doesn't like him. She makes it very obvious to him

 

[Kimbosheart]

Please elaborate more on men being "single-focused". Ive always said that when a man is ready to get married or get into a relationship, it is a conscious choice he is making and not by happenstance, so he will take the necessary steps to achieve his goal. Does the workshop suggest that "single-focused" men are purposely obtuse, inconsistent, etc., because they arent ready for a meaningful relationship although they still entertain the company of women?

I read your post in the Feminine Belles thread and I can totally relate. I have been in situations with men where they didnt respond to my femininity and its puzzling at best, but Im learning to not take it personally. Im now realizing that I was able to "train" this one guy on how to be more responsive to my femininity, but now Im wondering why he wasnt responsive in the first place.

Regarding your situation specifically, Ive learned that men process situations/info a lot differently from women, so its very possible he thought he was doing you a favor, while you thought he was being rude. Is it possible for you to ask him directly for clarification?

Have you read The Queens Code? Alison goes into great detail about single focus vs diffuse awareness that may help you understand this concept. If you haven't read the book she has a few articles available on her website that explain this in some detail.

Here is a link to her website: http://www.understandmen.com/morsels/
I would read through these but keep in mind most of this information is shared in the book. She even goes into the men being ready for marriage bit you mentioned earlier in her articles on the website.

Reading the book helps you understand the concept but it also ties together the application of it through the very "corny" story. I know that Hopeful, BKBombshell, CaribbeanDiva and a few others from the very start of this thread are answering questions based on the premises explained from the book and her other writings. So hopefully this helps you keep up with some of the terms we are using and the way we are approaching our issues throughout the discussion.

 

[Flourishnikov]

Have you read The Queens Code? Alison goes into great detail about single focus vs diffuse awareness that may help you understand this concept. If you haven't read the book she has a few articles available on her website that explain this in some detail. I'll try to post links later.

I havent, but I did DL one of the audio books. Thanks in advance for the links.

 

[Ivonnovi]

I don't have any constructive info to offer right now, but I'd like to share the following observations and incident from my weekend.

1. I don't like the sorting process. My roster should be synced with my phone. I really prefer to date only one guy at a time....AND it seems my "Playa Card" has expired and is no longer current
   
2. I had a date with 2 guys this weekend. On Friday, Whilst looking for parking I erroneously sent a text and phone call to the wrong guy warning him about the parking. Dude politely asked: "Do you know who you're talking too?"
   
3. ...........Uhhhhh..Insert awkward pause as I realized that it was the wrong person...and I'd told this guy that I "just needed to unwind on Friday night" as I scheduled our date for Saturday........
   
4. I obviously was left with a dilemma (sweating) about what to tell him during our next convo; and whether or not the Saturday date was still a "go"....... This bugged me straight through Saturday.
5. I continued my Friday date as planned. Nice guy, but 50 miles away is not within my preferred driving range. "Phone Dude" is within 10 miles of me.
   
6. I decided that I would just (look super cute for the date and) tell the truth about my flub.
   
7. Yeah, a little cleavage, nice jeans, heels, makeup on fleek and a Sincere Apologetic Explanation went very well. We were about 1.5 hours into the 4 hour date before he brought it up!!!!
8. Anywho, he's still very much in the running.

NOW, I went back and read the actual profile of someone on the roster. It includes a statement similar to the following: "I want a woman that does not need a man, but enjoys the comfort of a man". Via, the phone he presents as family oriented, and companion seeking; we have not spoken in a few days. I plan to call him this evening and will inquire about what he means by that, or exactly what he hoped that a woman would interpret from that statement. I PLAN TO SHARE HIS RESPONSE HERE.

 

[Ivonnovi]

FOLLOW-UP TO: “I want a woman that doesn’t need a man, but enjoys the comfort of a man”

I worded my question carefully and asked him “what did he expect a woman to take from that statement, or better yet how he hoped a woman interpret that? [A TQC tactic]

The question caught him off guard, I did my best to squelch his fears as I reinforced the fact that I didn’t ask him "what he meant by that" but instead really wanted to know how he thought a woman might interpret his statement.

He professes to be a chivalrous gentleman and all, but still would like the woman he’s seeing to be able to foot the bill on occasion; and she definitely should not be reliant upon him to help raise her kids or pay her bills. His youngest is finishing college shortly and he does not want to go backwards. [I agreed that this was understandable]​

When he asked what I thought, based on his response I suggested that he should revamp the statement to read something like:

“I’d like an independent woman that can still appreciate gentleman" ..or
“I like a woman who is independent but not to the point where she can’t appreciate a gentleman. (I don’t remember exactly how I worded it but it was good!)​

BUT THEN HE WENT ON AND

……without knowing it he let me know that he’d had several years (10+) in a “no strings attached” relationship; and that that had worked just fine for him. It was her that didn’t want to get married; though he provided a needed role model for her kids.
Simultaneously, he never married nor was interested in marrying his son’s mother; yet he stuck nearby for his kid (who is grown now).
He provided other examples of “Women [in his life] who DIDN’T NEED A MAN, but enjoyed the company of a man that he’s witnessed (relatives).​

IMHO, I simply listened (TQC tactic) and as he kept going on he sorted (In Sync "dating" tactic) himself out because though I'd like a companion I’m also looking for marriage material. On the surface he professes to be marriage material; his “more personal update” sounds quite the opposite. More like he’s a professional “Uncle” if you know what I mean.

Unfortunately we had to get off the phone before I could delve more into his motives. Such as what type of relationship would you really like?

 

[ArrrBeee]

I finished TQC and now I'm listening to Keys to the Kingdom. This is such great material if you're in a place to receive and admit your mistakes.

 

[hopeful]

Good job @Ivonnovi. Just by listening well you allowed him to sort himself out. And I liked how you handled the texting mix up.

 

[caribeandiva]

I had a date with 2 guys this weekend. On Friday, Whilst looking for parking I erroneously sent a text and phone call to the wrong guy warning him about the parking. Dude politely asked: "Do you know who you're talking too?"

I don't mean to laugh at your pain but this made me bust out laughing.

 

[caribeandiva]

I'll be observing their interactions more closely

Anyhoo, there is a young AA frog farmer at my job. She speaks to this one guy (who's actually her superior) very rudely and condescendingly. I heard her talking about him and she doesn't like him. She makes it very obvious to him

She's gonna have a hard time in her love life if she doesn't change. She probably thinks men are the problem.

 

[Britt]

I had to put the book down for a little bit b/c I definitely have a sword up. I think of all the men that I know, the one's my friend's know, etc. the ones I've dated, the ones at work, the list is quite endless and I honestly started to feel very defensive and I think understandably so. I will have to reread this book. I picked it up again and got to the part where Karen (I think it's her) w/ the hubby and the dinner she made and his coworkers came over and her hubby made a really nasty comment and she tore him a new one. I sympathize with both parties... even more with the wife honestly. His comment would sting the helllll outtta me too if I'm at home slaving over a stove, watching your children, holding the house down and you have the audacity to comment on some head in front of your coworkers!!!!!! How else should she have reacted in that moment? I was incensed for her but at the same time I saw how her comment could totally obliterate his manhood, but I feel he did the same when he made that comment to her.

 

[Britt]

Like I'm dating someone right now, and I think (I know) I've been incredibly sweet and nice and affectionate towards him and I had I come to Jesus moment on Monday where I was really in my feelings and decided I need to let it go and probably pull back some from him b/c I am not his girlfriend. He wants to enjoy all the perks I come along with but I can't put myself at an emotional disadvantage when I know he's dating around and we're not committed. Yesterday I felt more detached and surrendered about the whole thing but my main focus now is looking out for myself. I see the pattern of jumping into gf mode and being super sweet too prematurely. This man isn't my man. His words say one thing and actions say another

 

[Flourishnikov]

Hey ladies!! I havent yet read TQC, but I listened to the conference "In Sync with the Opposite Sex" and took the notes below:

When on date don't talk until he is settled and let him spur the convo. Don't be worried about what to say or silence. Men like silence. Put men in situations where they can be confident. Suggest dinner in his hood. Don't ask men on dates. Hunters don't ask hunters out.

Be specific about where u want to go. Don't be vague or indecisive. Make a clear cut suggestion don't try to make him happy or be "flexible".

Men listen for two things:

For what's the point...women want all the details

What's the problem...guy tries to solve not control but protect

Men mean what they say but women don't. Women are pleasers so we adapt our answer to please.

Adversarial relationship between men and women is due to dependency:

Women need protection and provision.

Men want Sex and Attention.

Men that u are the most attracted to are the ones u have the least amount of power, most strategic approach, most adversarial. You RUN from these men because u turn into a pretzel to please him and they never get to meet the real YOU.

Fall in love with the ones u have the least attraction to and the least chemistry with because they actually get to meet YOU.

Men that aren't wildly attracted to women want to give to her and provide for her versus what she can get from her sexually.

What men can u be yourself around? They are the ones that u can be most confident around and fall in love with. Run away from 6-7s and above.

Chemistry makes u sleep with someone u don't like.

Things to ponder...

It's okay to call man up and ask him if u should save sat for him.

It's okay to accept a last minute invitation.

Women enter a relationship as soon as we give them our numbers, because we are the "connectors" in the universe.

Dating exclusively is "dibs" on one another. A relationship is deep involvement in each other lives.

Dating is a job interview for men that are looking for a wife.

Time spent in relationship with no result (marriage) equals wasted time to a woman.

Time in a relationship for a man means time well spent that just ended.

Women are assessing progression of relationship in 3 months (same time as fetus development).

18months is too long to wait before proposing. 9month mark is when things start to go sour.

From adversary to partner:

1. Can u trust them? Be courageous in communication?
2. Catch strategy and shift to engaging and expressing. Stop reacting to what u think someone else wants. Stop being careful, concealing and strategic. Stop adapting to other ppl when it sells u out. Start expressing and engaging, become the person who is being reacted to. Say what u want, do what u want, be yourself and the ppl that like it will stay those that don't will fall away. Don't turn yourself into what they want. Let them sort themselves out. You cannot think scarcity.

(Notice how attractive ppl are when they tell the truth.)

If you went on date what would u express that u would never say or do?

Be upfront and honest to send him away and lose the person that didn't want to give u what u wanted. Stop false advertising.

How do you false advertise?

It's ok to be high maintenance if ur high performing. Men buy jags, Porsches etc all the time.

Sort through the fray. Be authentic, genuine and sincere.

It's easier to be these things around the ppl that allow u to be these things. Be authentic about...

Dating purpose and objective

What are your Deal breakers? (identify what broke up past relationships)

Marriage is enhancement for men it's not necessary for them, but it instinctually drives women. We sell our deal breakers for love and chemistry, men dont. We sell out ours and think men will sell out their, deal breakers, too...but they dont.

Picture your in the ideal relationship!

What are u willing to provide?

What are u expecting to get/receive? What is it that u need? What would make u happy? What will u be upset without?

Say it all before ur first date, any attachment or any investment. This will sort out all bad matches. It's a good thing!!! Rejection is not bad.

Make sure he likes your body type and/or body. If not, its a recipe for disaster.

Women must be desired or they will be miserable!!

 

[Britt]

Hey ladies!! I havent yet read TQC, but I listened to the conference "In Sync with the Opposite Sex" and took the notes below:

When on date don't talk until he is settled and let him spur the convo. Don't be worried about what to say or silence. Men like silence. Put men in situations where they can be confident. Suggest dinner in his hood. Don't ask men on dates. Hunters don't ask hunters out.

Be specific about where u want to go. Don't be vague or indecisive. Make a clear cut suggestion don't try to make him happy or be "flexible".

Men listen for two things:

For what's the point...women want all the details

What's the problem...guy tries to solve not control but protect

Men mean what they say but women don't. Women are pleasers so we adapt our answer to please.

Adversarial relationship between men and women is due to dependency:

Women need protection and provision.

Men want Sex and Attention.

Men that u are the most attracted to are the ones u have the least amount of power, most strategic approach, most adversarial. You RUN from these men because u turn into a pretzel to please him and they never get to meet the real YOU.

Fall in love with the ones u have the least attraction to and the least chemistry with because they actually get to meet YOU.

Men that aren't wildly attracted to women want to give to her and provide for her versus what she can get from her sexually.

What men can u be yourself around? They are the ones that u can be most confident around and fall in love with. Run away from 6-7s and above.

Chemistry makes u sleep with someone u don't like.

Things to ponder...

It's okay to call man up and ask him if u should save sat for him.

It's okay to accept a last minute invitation.

Women enter a relationship as soon as we give them our numbers, because we are the "connectors" in the universe.

Dating exclusively is "dibs" on one another. A relationship is deep involvement in each other lives.

Dating is a job interview for men that are looking for a wife.

Time spent in relationship with no result (marriage) equals wasted time to a woman.

Time in a relationship for a man means time well spent that just ended.

Women are assessing progression of relationship in 3 months (same time as fetus development).

18months is too long to wait before proposing. 9month mark is when things start to go sour.

From adversary to partner:

1. Can u trust them? Be courageous in communication?
2. Catch strategy and shift to engaging and expressing. Stop reacting to what u think someone else wants. Stop being careful, concealing and strategic. Stop adapting to other ppl when it sells u out. Start expressing and engaging, become the person who is being reacted to. Say what u want, do what u want, be yourself and the ppl that like it will stay those that don't will fall away. Don't turn yourself into what they want. Let them sort themselves out. You cannot think scarcity.

(Notice how attractive ppl are when they tell the truth.)

If you went on date what would u express that u would never say or do?

Be upfront and honest to send him away and lose the person that didn't want to give u what u wanted. Stop false advertising.

How do you false advertise?

It's ok to be high maintenance if ur high performing. Men buy jags, Porsches etc all the time.

Sort through the fray. Be authentic, genuine and sincere.

It's easier to be these things around the ppl that allow u to be these things. Be authentic about...

Dating purpose and objective

What are your Deal breakers? (identify what broke up past relationships)

Marriage is enhancement for men it's not necessary for them, but it instinctually drives women. We sell our deal breakers for love and chemistry, men dont. We sell out ours and think men will sell out their, deal breakers, too...but they dont.

Picture your in the ideal relationship!

What are u willing to provide?

What are u expecting to get/receive? What is it that u need? What would make u happy? What will u be upset without?

Say it all before ur first date, any attachment or any investment. This will sort out all bad matches. It's a good thing!!! Rejection is not bad.

Make sure he likes your body type and/or body. If not, its a recipe for disaster.

Women must be desired or they will be miserable!!

I can relate to every.single.word of this!
Thanks for the synopsis. I agree to all of this.

 

[caribeandiva]

I had to put the book down for a little bit b/c I definitely have a sword up. I think of all the men that I know, the one's my friend's know, etc. the ones I've dated, the ones at work, the list is quite endless and I honestly started to feel very defensive and I think understandably so. I will have to reread this book. I picked it up again and got to the part where Karen (I think it's her) w/ the hubby and the dinner she made and his coworkers came over and her hubby made a really nasty comment and she tore him a new one. I sympathize with both parties... even more with the wife honestly. His comment would sting the helllll outtta me too if I'm at home slaving over a stove, watching your children, holding the house down and you have the audacity to comment on some head in front of your coworkers!!!!!! How else should she have reacted in that moment? I was incensed for her but at the same time I saw how her comment could totally obliterate his manhood, but I feel he did the same when he made that comment to her.

The husband was reacting to her though. He made the nasty comment about her in front of his friends because he's been castrated for years by his wife. That's a normal reaction. Steal a man's power long enough and he'll steal yours to retaliate. That's what makes emasculation so dangerous. Now he can't protect you because he's too busy protecting himself FROM you. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[Flourishnikov]

I can relate to every.single.word of this!
Thanks for the synopsis. I agree to all of this.

Although the logic behind it is sound, I have some real issues with the idea that we should date men that rank no more than a 6-7 on looks scale.

I also dont know that I will ever feel comfortable discussing the following questions before the first date like she suggests:

What are u willing to provide?

What are u expecting to get/receive?

I love that she stresses we need to stop operating from scarcity when dealing with men, though. I know I have done that to some degree with my current love interest. If we firmly plant in our minds that we have an abundance of options it will prevent us from compromising ourselves, settling and putting up with wayward behavior from men. Unfortunately, stats, media, negativity, etc help perpetuate the idea that there is a shortage of black men available for marriage which causes us to stay in situations long after they have expired. We have to get to a place where we trust the universe/God to provide according to our needs.

 

[Kimbosheart]

Although the logic behind it is sound, I have some real issues with the idea that we should date men that rank no more than a 6-7 on looks scale.

I also dont know that I will ever feel comfortable discussing the following questions before the first date like she suggests:

What are u willing to provide?

What are u expecting to get/receive?

I love that she stresses we need to stop operating from scarcity when dealing with men, though. I know I have done that to some degree with my current love interest. If we firmly plant in our minds that we have an abundance of options it will prevent us from compromising ourselves, settling and putting up with wayward behavior from men. Unfortunately, stats, media, negativity, etc help perpetuate the idea that there is a shortage of black men available for marriage which causes us to stay in situations long after they have expired. We have to get to a place where we trust the universe/God to provide according to our needs.

You really should read the TQC because it gives you the clear picture of why these questions are key for men and helping you decide. If you meant that you're uncomfortable with those exact words then I would look at it a little differently. If you take your time with the material, you'll see that her writing is not a "script" you really don't have to use the exact words she does. If you accept the material - wholly, for some reason it doesn't work if you peacemeal it- you should be changing your mouth. A different mouth, different words. Ok bad analogy. It's more changing the way you look at something, and learning how to listen that gives you new questions to ask when dealing with the masculine. She uses a few words in that telecast that I didn't agree with, and I don't think she's fully clear on some of her concepts but I can say that accepting this has completely changed the game for me. Whereas before I felt like I was treading mud to keep my head above water with men, now I'm floating effortlessly and they are bringing me drinks.

Like I'm dating someone right now, and I think (I know) I've been incredibly sweet and nice and affectionate towards him and I had I come to Jesus moment on Monday where I was really in my feelings and decided I need to let it go and probably pull back some from him b/c I am not his girlfriend. He wants to enjoy all the perks I come along with but I can't put myself at an emotional disadvantage when I know he's dating around and we're not committed. Yesterday I felt more detached and surrendered about the whole thing but my main focus now is looking out for myself. I see the pattern of jumping into gf mode and being super sweet too prematurely. This man isn't my man. His words say one thing and actions say another

In the chapter that everyone hates, she talks about cover charge and perks for being with you as well as in the short book "understanding men" but on another note. You are too beautiful for that, I'm glad you've left him to him so that a real man who wants the responsibilities that come with your sweetness, time and attention can find you. Let yourself be the prey, it's actually pretty fun.

I had to put the book down for a little bit b/c I definitely have a sword up. I think of all the men that I know, the one's my friend's know, etc. the ones I've dated, the ones at work, the list is quite endless and I honestly started to feel very defensive and I think understandably so. I will have to reread this book. I picked it up again and got to the part where Karen (I think it's her) w/ the hubby and the dinner she made and his coworkers came over and her hubby made a really nasty comment and she tore him a new one. I sympathize with both parties... even more with the wife honestly. His comment would sting the helllll outtta me too if I'm at home slaving over a stove, watching your children, holding the house down and you have the audacity to comment on some head in front of your coworkers!!!!!! How else should she have reacted in that moment? I was incensed for her but at the same time I saw how her comment could totally obliterate his manhood, but I feel he did the same when he made that comment to her.

CDiva gave a good explanation of this scene. I really appreciate your honesty about your impressions. I think this thread needs more of this, people who've read through it and can truly say, they don't agree or want to keep the sword close. It's always good to hear the opposite side to an argument. I will say, I read it more hopefully. Nothing I'd done before seemed to have lasting results so lets try something new. This has been working very well since August in my relationship and it's spilling over into other areas of my life and I'm loving that freedom as well.

 

[Ivonnovi]

Great notes!!!!

Though AA understandably did not mention it during this conference, IMHO this list is applicable to men in the Stages of Development referred to as"Kings" and maybe "latter stage Princes". If one assess a man to be in any of the junior Stages of Development, then one should implement these guidelines with caution.

Also, I fixed this one which is a really good one (once she explains the logic):

Men that u are the most attracted to are the ones u have the least amount of power, most strategic approach, most adversarial. You SHOULD RUN from these men because u turn into a pretzel to please him and they never get to meet the real YOU.​

Hey ladies!! I havent yet read TQC, but I listened to the conference "In Sync with the Opposite Sex" and took the notes below:

 

[Flourishnikov]

Great notes!!!!

Though AA understandably did not mention it during this conference, IMHO this list is applicable to men in the Stages of Development referred to as"Kings" and maybe "latter stage Princes". If one assess a man to be in any of the junior Stages of Development, then one should implement these guidelines with caution.

Also, I fixed this one which is a really good one (once she explains the logic):

Men that u are the most attracted to are the ones u have the least amount of power, most strategic approach, most adversarial. You SHOULD RUN from these men because u turn into a pretzel to please him and they never get to meet the real YOU.​

Thanks for clarifying the bolded, because those are the ones I typically run towards. LOL

Im not familiar with the stages of development, but it sounds like I will want to use the advice on a more evolved man and not just any random frog.

You really should read the TQC because it gives you the clear picture of why these questions are key for men and helping you decide. If you meant that you're uncomfortable with those exact words then I would look at it a little differently. If you take your time with the material, you'll see that her writing is not a "script" you really don't have to use the exact words she does. If you accept the material - wholly, for some reason it doesn't work if you peacemeal it- you should be changing your mouth. A different mouth, different words. Ok bad analogy. It's more changing the way you look at something, and learning how to listen that gives you new questions to ask when dealing with the masculine. She uses a few words in that telecast that I didn't agree with, and I don't think she's fully clear on some of her concepts but I can say that accepting this has completely changed the game for me. Whereas before I felt like I was treading mud to keep my head above water with men, now I'm floating effortlessly and they are bringing me drinks.



In the chapter that everyone hates, she talks about cover charge and perks for being with you as well as in the short book "understanding men" but on another note. You are too beautiful for that, I'm glad you've left him to him so that a real man who wants the responsibilities that come with your sweetness, time and attention can find you. Let yourself be the prey, it's actually pretty fun.



CDiva gave a good explanation of this scene. I really appreciate your honesty about your impressions. I think this thread needs more of this, people who've read through it and can truly say, they don't agree or want to keep the sword close. It's always good to hear the opposite side to an argument. I will say, I read it more hopefully. Nothing I'd done before seemed to have lasting results so lets try something new. This has been working very well since August in my relationship and it's spilling over into other areas of my life and I'm loving that freedom as well.

I think I was more so concerned about looking too thirsty or pressed, but again itll most likely take a more evolved gent to appreciate the approach. I'll def check out the TQC for extra insight though.

 

[Britt]

Although the logic behind it is sound, I have some real issues with the idea that we should date men that rank no more than a 6-7 on looks scale.

I also dont know that I will ever feel comfortable discussing the following questions before the first date like she suggests:

What are u willing to provide?

What are u expecting to get/receive?

I love that she stresses we need to stop operating from scarcity when dealing with men, though. I know I have done that to some degree with my current love interest. If we firmly plant in our minds that we have an abundance of options it will prevent us from compromising ourselves, settling and putting up with wayward behavior from men. Unfortunately, stats, media, negativity, etc help perpetuate the idea that there is a shortage of black men available for marriage which causes us to stay in situations long after they have expired. We have to get to a place where we trust the universe/God to provide according to our needs.

agreed!!!! I can't see myself asking this question quite yet although quite honestly I want to know. This is what I REALLY want to know from a man --- what can you provide ? And what do you expect to receive from me? These are two very real questions to see if you're on the same page as the person. I would never ask these questions on a first date though... not even a third date... not until I'm more comfy with the person and it seems a relationship might be on the horizon possibly.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS to the bolded !!!!!!!!

 

[Britt]

You really should read the TQC because it gives you the clear picture of why these questions are key for men and helping you decide. If you meant that you're uncomfortable with those exact words then I would look at it a little differently. If you take your time with the material, you'll see that her writing is not a "script" you really don't have to use the exact words she does. If you accept the material - wholly, for some reason it doesn't work if you peacemeal it- you should be changing your mouth. A different mouth, different words. Ok bad analogy. It's more changing the way you look at something, and learning how to listen that gives you new questions to ask when dealing with the masculine. She uses a few words in that telecast that I didn't agree with, and I don't think she's fully clear on some of her concepts but I can say that accepting this has completely changed the game for me. Whereas before I felt like I was treading mud to keep my head above water with men, now I'm floating effortlessly and they are bringing me drinks.



In the chapter that everyone hates, she talks about cover charge and perks for being with you as well as in the short book "understanding men" but on another note. You are too beautiful for that, I'm glad you've left him to him so that a real man who wants the responsibilities that come with your sweetness, time and attention can find you. Let yourself be the prey, it's actually pretty fun.



CDiva gave a good explanation of this scene. I really appreciate your honesty about your impressions. I think this thread needs more of this, people who've read through it and can truly say, they don't agree or want to keep the sword close. It's always good to hear the opposite side to an argument. I will say, I read it more hopefully. Nothing I'd done before seemed to have lasting results so lets try something new. This has been working very well since August in my relationship and it's spilling over into other areas of my life and I'm loving that freedom as well.

Thank you! I honestly am not ready to put down my sword fully. It just bothers me that everything falls on us to get it right and men don't do the same. I am however incredibly willing to look at things differently. That's a start in itself. So far, at this point where I am I don't agree or like what's written. I feel it absolves men of bad behavior. It's like the whole chicken/egg argument. What started first? The man started slipping or did something foul and the women reacted in the same way. I just don't see women going around emasculating men w/o just cause. Anywhooo, I'm open to learning and seeing things differently.

Regarding the guy I'm dating (bolded/underlined), I haven't dropped him yet (I do like him and I think he really likes me), but I am in self protection mode. I'm going to put some necessary space between us. He won't see me for a little while. I've pulled back b/c I've given a lot already and we're not committed. He's been my focus since we met, he's heavily on my mind, I start to actually miss him. Just as I wrote the post above he texts me alluding to the fact that he'd like to spend the day with me Friday. He didn't outright say it, but it's coming. And he does things like that, wants to spend time with me, enjoys my company, etc. but I can't keep doing that w/o feelings growing naturally. Then he'll passive aggressively 'check in' with me to see where I'm going but will not outright ask me where or with who. Like why do you care or want to know when you're a single man doing you ?? I don't get it. Actually I do... case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it too and then if he realizes he doesn't like the flavor of the new cake he can easily pull away b/c he wasn't 'committed' to the cake in the first place.

Sorry -- went off on a tangent some.

 

[Kimbosheart]

I think I was more so concerned about looking too thirsty or pressed, but again itll most likely take a more evolved gent to appreciate the approach. I'll def check out the TQC for extra insight though.

I gotcha... hmm, maybe not the first date but I would ask pretty early before feelings start to develop. I agree we can't be out looking parched.

Maybe try looking at those questions as something that can help you. 2 ways I can think of off the top of my head
1. You get to calibrate your expectations up front--if he's going to provide it, you can stop trying to provide it for yourself or for him
2. You can both opt-in or out pretty early. No hard feelings

Thank you! I honestly am not ready to put down my sword fully. It just bothers me that everything falls on us to get it right and men don't do the same. I am however incredibly willing to look at things differently. That's a start in itself. So far, at this point where I am I don't agree or like what's written. I feel it absolves men of bad behavior. It's like the whole chicken/egg argument. What started first? The man started slipping or did something foul and the women reacted in the same way. I just don't see women going around emasculating men w/o just cause. Anywhooo, I'm open to learning and seeing things differently.

Regarding the guy I'm dating (bolded/underlined), I haven't dropped him yet (I do like him and I think he really likes me), but I am in self protection mode. I'm going to put some necessary space between us. He won't see me for a little while. I've pulled back b/c I've given a lot already and we're not committed. He's been my focus since we met, he's heavily on my mind, I start to actually miss him. Just as I wrote the post above he texts me alluding to the fact that he'd like to spend the day with me Friday. He didn't outright say it, but it's coming. And he does things like that, wants to spend time with me, enjoys my company, etc. but I can't keep doing that w/o feelings growing naturally. Then he'll passive aggressively 'check in' with me to see where I'm going but will not outright ask me where or with who. Like why do you care or want to know when you're a single man doing you ?? I don't get it. Actually I do... case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it too and then if he realizes he doesn't like the flavor of the new cake he can easily pull away b/c he wasn't 'committed' to the cake in the first place.

Sorry -- went off on a tangent some.

First Bolded: I can see where you're coming from. In general, I have a problem with the overwhelming amount of literature that says anything about changing ourselves to "get" a man, or a "ring". Steve Harvey and I have beef, I'm not even checking off topic right now, because it's black women bashing month. It also seems like for every 5 books on how a women needs to contort herself into something there is maybe 1 book for men on how to have a good relationship and 3 books for men on how to get more women to sleep with them.

However, at the same time. I wholeheartedly believe and will testify that they only thing you can change is yourself. Change your thoughts, mind, behaviors, location, clothes. As an adult that is all up to me. I can't make anybody else change. And that's why I read the book, my relationship was headed in the wrong direction... I was frog-farming like a migrant worker and I wasn't feeling my best.

Now anecdotally, I can say this, once I dropped the sword with my guy and figuratively bit my tongue off with this new listening practice and trying not to jump to conclusions he has changed. He is no longer defensive or offensive with me. If he even thinks he's done something to displease me, he apologizes right away. But even better, I can see all the ways and all the effort he puts into himself and our relationship to keep me happy. So maybe, since men aren't hairy women the books and articles don't work on them. Maybe they talk to other men, or it's more instinctual for them to put effort into their relationships but I notice it now, and I've never noticed it before. Also, he will always find a way to get on my nerves.. that has not changed.


Second Bolded: I can either PM you some of the advice Allison gives on these situations or if you don't mind I can post it later. And maybe @hopeful can chime in on this. She's got a lovely touch when it comes to these situations.

 

[Britt]

I gotcha... hmm, maybe not the first date but I would ask pretty early before feelings start to develop. I agree we can't be out looking parched.

Maybe try looking at those questions as something that can help you. 2 ways I can think of off the top of my head
1. You get to calibrate your expectations up front--if he's going to provide it, you can stop trying to provide it for yourself or for him
2. You can both opt-in or out pretty early. No hard feelings



First Bolded: I can see where you're coming from. In general, I have a problem with the overwhelming amount of literature that says anything about changing ourselves to "get" a man, or a "ring". Steve Harvey and I have beef, I'm not even checking off topic right now, because it's black women bashing month. It also seems like for every 5 books on how a women needs to contort herself into something there is maybe 1 book for men on how to have a good relationship and 3 books for men on how to get more women to sleep with them.

However, at the same time. I wholeheartedly believe and will testify that they only thing you can change is yourself. Change your thoughts, mind, behaviors, location, clothes. As an adult that is all up to me. I can't make anybody else change. And that's why I read the book, my relationship was headed in the wrong direction... I was frog-farming like a migrant worker and I wasn't feeling my best.

Now anecdotally, I can say this, once I dropped the sword with my guy and figuratively bit my tongue off with this new listening practice and trying not to jump to conclusions he has changed. He is no longer defensive or offensive with me. If he even thinks he's done something to displease me, he apologizes right away. But even better, I can see all the ways and all the effort he puts into himself and our relationship to keep me happy. So maybe, since men aren't hairy women the books and articles don't work on them. Maybe they talk to other men, or it's more instinctual for them to put effort into their relationships but I notice it now, and I've never noticed it before. Also, he will always find a way to get on my nerves.. that has not changed.


Second Bolded: I can either PM you some of the advice Allison gives on these situations or if you don't mind I can post it later. And maybe @hopeful can chime in on this. She's got a lovely touch when it comes to these situations.

Thank you my dear!!!!!!
It is a bit of a touchy situation and right now the only thing I can think of is to put a little space between us. I'm open to PMs. I just feel like at this moment I know I need to look out for me.... just as he's looking out for him. I was very emotional on Monday... today and yesterday I feel much more clear headed and detached and trying to surrender to whatever the outcome may be. He told me I'm guarded (which I am) but I feel I've been incredibly open with him. He then points out in a caring way that I don't look at him when I speak to him. I was talking about something relating to men/my feelings/past something along those lines i.e something vulnerable (that's the feeling I had when I was talking to him) and he looked at me and said I don't look at him when I speak to him. He makes us popcorn and refuses to put extra salt on it b/c I told him I have high bp...he does little things that are caring, affectionate, and even protective... but he says he's dating and a single man... yet he checks in on my effin whereabouts in a passive aggressive way. He even wanted me to stay the day with him on Saturday and hang out with him and his little cousins and I would have, but I had my brother's baby shower that evening.

Ughhh... I'm annoyed and just want to keep my distance for a little bit.

And this is why I'm open to reading the book.

However, at the same time. I wholeheartedly believe and will testify that they only thing you can change is yourself. Change your thoughts, mind, behaviors, location, clothes. As an adult that is all up to me. I can't make anybody else change.

 

[ladysaraii]

I had to put the book down for a little bit b/c I definitely have a sword up. I think of all the men that I know, the one's my friend's know, etc. the ones I've dated, the ones at work, the list is quite endless and I honestly started to feel very defensive and I think understandably so. I will have to reread this book. I picked it up again and got to the part where Karen (I think it's her) w/ the hubby and the dinner she made and his coworkers came over and her hubby made a really nasty comment and she tore him a new one. I sympathize with both parties... even more with the wife honestly. His comment would sting the helllll outtta me too if I'm at home slaving over a stove, watching your children, holding the house down and you have the audacity to comment on some head in front of your coworkers!!!!!! How else should she have reacted in that moment? I was incensed for her but at the same time I saw how her comment could totally obliterate his manhood, but I feel he did the same when he made that comment to her.

The husband was reacting to her though. He made the nasty comment about her in front of his friends because he's been castrated for years by his wife. That's a normal reaction. Steal a man's power long enough and he'll steal yours to retaliate. That's what makes emasculation so dangerous. Now he can't protect you because he's too busy protecting himself FROM you. It's a vicious cycle.

I understand where you came from b/c I felt similarly when I read that part. Melissa was no saint and she was certainly responsible for a lot of the issues in the marriage; however, I understand why she lashed out when he made that comment in front of the guests.

Really, that's a couple that needed therapy. Both of them.

 

[Britt]

I understand where you came from b/c I felt similarly when I read that part. Melissa was no saint and she was certainly responsible for a lot of the issues in the marriage; however, I understand why she lashed out when he made that comment in front of the guests.

Really, that's a couple that needed therapy. Both of them.

I think so too. If I were in her shoes from the amount I've read so far, I'd react the same way she did. I'll see how my outlook changes as I continue to read on.

 

[hopeful]

I had to put the book down for a little bit b/c I definitely have a sword up. I think of all the men that I know, the one's my friend's know, etc. the ones I've dated, the ones at work, the list is quite endless and I honestly started to feel very defensive and I think understandably so. I will have to reread this book. I picked it up again and got to the part where Karen (I think it's her) w/ the hubby and the dinner she made and his coworkers came over and her hubby made a really nasty comment and she tore him a new one. I sympathize with both parties... even more with the wife honestly. His comment would sting the helllll outtta me too if I'm at home slaving over a stove, watching your children, holding the house down and you have the audacity to comment on some head in front of your coworkers!!!!!! How else should she have reacted in that moment? I was incensed for her but at the same time I saw how her comment could totally obliterate his manhood, but I feel he did the same when he made that comment to her.

Britt, the argument was between Kimberlee's friend Melissa and her husband. Karen and her husband would never have that kind of interaction. Melissa has been belittling and emasculating her husband for years. However, what he said about a blow job in front of his co-workers after she made a meal for them at the last minute was uncalled for and disrespectful. I think the point of the incident was to show what happens when things build up for so long. The withholding of sex, the slick comments, the constant disrespect, the endless disappointment.

So I understand your reaction, but every incident in the book is to make a point. You have to look for the point more versus taking sides. Her husband has been a jerk too. No one is disagreeing with that. He is no angel. But what role has she been playing? Has she been frog farming?

Very early on she asks the ladies to lay down their swords. I laid mine down then and there with Karen and Kimberlee. It's the only way to get the lessons. You may have to just sit with how on earth you can lay your sword down, figure that out first before moving forward. The sword you are carrying is preventing you from learning. If you saw our comments in the GoodReads group you saw how vulnerable all of us felt. It took a bit for us to handle being swordless. You will have to come to the realization that the sword's protection is temporary and false. It causes you more harm than you realize and keeps love away. I now choose to not use that sword on anyone I love or who loves me. Of course I sometimes slip up but for the most part I say no no no, that is not good or kind. People who I know mean me harm and will never love me, if backed in a corner I will cut them. Right or wrong that's what I've decided. But with most people it causes more harm than good.

If you believe most men are dogs, immature, stupid, etc. you will never put the sword down. But honestly if I were a single woman and I really really believed that 90% of men were no good, I would put the sword down and just not date, give up, and quit hoping for and looking for love. Then at least I could relax and enjoy the joys of life without carrying a huge sword around all day every day.

If I were you I would just focus on laying down the sword, that's it. Only you know what it would take for you to be able to that. And if you are not ready to put it down that's okay too. Because laying it down is no guarantee that you won't get hurt. You will get hurt by someone. That is something we have to accept about life. Laying down the sword also helps you see people for who they are sooner and requires that you have strong boundaries, take good care of yourself, be more authentic, walk away when necessary, etc. All of us who laid it down are happier.

 

[Britt]

If I were you I would just focus on laying down the sword, that's it. Only you know what it would take for you to be able to that. And if you are not ready to put it down that's okay too. Because laying it down is no guarantee that you won't get hurt. You will get hurt by someone. That is something we have to accept about life. Laying down the sword also helps you see people for who they are sooner and requires that you have strong boundaries, take good care of yourself, be more authentic, walk away when necessary, etc. All of us who laid it down are happier.

Thank you!!

 

[hopeful]

Also this is how I think I would have responded to Melissa's husband's rude comment:

"That was very disrespectful to say to me, your wife, period, but in front of your coworkers? I don't deserve that and I won't tolerate or accept that kind of behavior from you or anyone." Then I would have told the men, "Thank you so much for complimenting me on my cooking. That made me feel very appreciated. I'm leaving now. Good night."

The thing is that there is sooo much wrong with their relationship. Like even the guys coming at the last minute. I would have said no or ordered pizza or something. But me, we would have fixed the last minute stuff years ago. Their relationship is very extreme and very dysfunctional. If she had stopped weilding that sword and understood men and herself better, their relationship wouldn't be this bad or they would be divorced. They are a worse case example of extreme and long-term frog farming. And her response is reasonable. I think most people would respond that way.

I will tell you this too. Sometimes my dh will say something that hurts and I want to emasculate him so badly. But I fight that temptation. Disagreements that would have lasted for days now last hours. Disagreements that would have lasted weeks now last a day or so. If someone loves you and you lay down your sword, they instinctually lay down their sword too. But even if they love you, if you continue to weild a sword, they will too. If you lay down your sword and they see it as an opportunity to slice and slice they are unhealthy and/or don't love you. Either way they have to be cut loose. Get away from them. It takes courage to see what a person will do when you put your sword down. It takes courage to have good boundaries, to be authentic, to be honest, to risk having your heart broken.

 

[hopeful]

So ladies, this is my suggestion. Read TQC and KTTK and try to lay down the sword for the next 30 days or wait and lay it down in the new year and commit to laying it down the entire month of January. But I hope you choose to take the vow to lay it down forever. Please do not pay too much attention to her other stuff before reading TQC and KTTK because it will not make sense to you. I probably won't post much more for awhile because the holidays got a sister busy. And I need to focus on myself and maintaining my pretty and my femininity. Good luck to everyone.

 

[Kimbosheart]

So ladies, this is my suggestion. Read TQC and KTTK and try to lay down the sword for the next 30 days or wait and lay it down in the new year and commit to laying it down the entire month of January. But I hope you choose to take the vow to lay it down forever. Please do not pay too much attention to her other stuff before reading TQC and KTTK because it will not make sense to you. I probably won't post much more for awhile because the holidays got a sister busy. And I need to focus on myself and maintaining my pretty and my femininity. Good luck to everyone.

@caribeandiva can we get the drops mike gif on this please.

Thank you @hopeful all your posts have been wonderful as usual