The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

[hopeful]

I cut everything down to what I'd like to respond to.
You are not really responsible for "how they feel"; you are responsible to ensure that you do not react or respond from a place of fear/anger. If someone is exhibiting inappropriate behavior even my prior statement might be difficult. Also, you're not to tolerate [the behaviors of] someone that makes you feel uncomfortable, just to hold on to your femininity.
As I'd stated in a few of my earlier posts, sometimes you have to be direct; certain personalities require that style of communications. Yes they will feel nicked because you said something they didn't want to hear or don't like; when they don't get their way.

Yes, thank you so much. That was very helpful. When I feel uneasy about a person or they are making me feel uncomfortable by asking too many questions or obviously after something, be it attention or whatever, maybe I am feeling objectified? I think that may be it.

 

[Britt]

I don't really attack. I feel suspicious so I'm kinda cool with them, subtly silent treatment them, to keep them at a distance. I've had so many people pretend to like me and dh but they really wanted something that I think I have become overly cautious. Dh has the kind of job where people are always angling for something. I'm sensitive about that. They think it's networking, being smart. I think they are being sneaky/manipulative. Dh expects it and doesn't care whereas I'm like please get out of my face unless you are sincere and want to get to know me. People asking dh for stuff (advice, help finding a job etc.) makes him feel good. For me it's invasive. It's a fine line for me because I want to be open and kind and expect the best of people but like 90% of the people we meet want something so the odds are against sincerity.

This is how I am... too a tee almost.. and I honestly don't think.. Ok, I don't have a desire to change it as yet if ever. I have an uncanny ability to sense people's intentions and sense where they are coming from, that coupled with the fact that I'm an introvert --- I'm kinda like 'get away from me and leave me alone, I see what your intentions are and trying to do, don't let my smile and warmness fool you and you think I'm a fool.' As a result, I keep my distance from a lot of people and I open up to who I feel is worthy and who I'm comfy with. And as time passes, the things I pick up from people is down right palpable so I distance myself.

 

[ArrrBeee]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where

Spoiler

Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad."

It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

 

[Ivonnovi]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where

Spoiler

Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad."

It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

Interesting, I missed that part but I do I understand both POVs.

Me thinks that if he's reacting out of jealousy, then he is not acting out of power (masculine power); instead he's reacting to a negative stimulus. In this case the Jealousy is akin to taunting/teasing someone in order to coerce them into a behavior they might have otherwise not done. In this case, causing him to be mad or react from an angry/or territorial POV is in the least manipulative, and somehow objectifies him; objectification = emasculation PER AA's teachings.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where

Spoiler

Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad."

It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

I haven't read the KTTK, but I think a King would not be motivated by this behavior and would be annoyed. Maybe knights and immature princes would be. I think she also said in the book that men don't take teasing well from women. That's not my style anyway. The whole thing seems to be founded on mutual respect and understanding where he's coming from.

 

[caribeandiva]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad." It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

It is an emasculating behavior because it makes men feel 2 feet tall. I think Mike explained that somewhere in the book (if not the same chapter). Men respond to being emasculated by getting angry. Here I thought it was making me look more desirable to let him know how many other men want me. Trust, I don't have to do any of that because he already knows. It's like I'm rubbing salt in his wound.

 

[BK Bombshell]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where

Spoiler

Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad."

It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

I think it's because it's an ultimatum: Do what I want or someone else will. And with ultimatums there are only 2 ways to respond: submit (and eventually resent the person) or resist. It's a lose-lose situation. I'd be angry too if a guy did that to me. Also, IIRC she wasn't really interested in the other guy so it was very manipulative and ugly behavior.

It's different if you're dating a few guys and they're all vying for your attention. Then there's no ultimatum, you're just making the best choice for yourself. It's all about the intention.

 

[ladysaraii]

Now that I'm finished, I have a question. Remember the part where

Spoiler

Mike said, "Jealousy doesn't make a man commit. It only makes him mad."

It was described as an emasculating behavior.

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that men tend to be more motivated when they know that someone else is in the picture.

I think trying to make him jealous is emasculating. Him naturally surveying the landscape and feeling jealous without your help is not.

 

[caribeandiva]

I think trying to make him jealous is emasculating. Him naturally surveying the landscape and feeling jealous without your help is not.

Exactly

 

[ArrrBeee]

Thanks for the insight. Unfortunately, I come from a long line of emasculators but I aim to redefine my legacy.

 

[Britt]

Okkkkk, so I'm on chapter 3 about the sword and emasculating men and how we treat men. As I was reading it on my commute this morning I just couldn't help but think "but what about all the trifling men out there, is the real reason men misbehave is bc we emasculate them"? I hope I have a huge paradigm shift when I get to the end b/c honestly right now, I'm kinda in defense mode and little upset/annoyed.

Might be tmi, but I was on a date on Sat night and was nice and tipsy, and I as I read this part of the book I thought back to my date whispering to me "I'm not the bad guy."... I probably didn't even respond to him, I'm quite sure I didn't, but the next day when I sobered up fully I remember him telling me that.

 

[caribeandiva]

Okkkkk, so I'm on chapter 3 about the sword and emasculating men and how we treat men. As I was reading it on my commute this morning I just couldn't help but think "but what about all the trifling men out there, is the real reason men misbehave is bc we emasculate them"? I hope I have a huge paradigm shift when I get to the end b/c honestly right now, I'm kinda in defense mode and little upset/annoyed.

Might be tmi, but I was on a date on Sat night and was nice and tipsy, and I as I read this part of the book I thought back to my date whispering to me "I'm not the bad guy."... I probably didn't even respond to him, I'm quite sure I didn't, but the next day when I sobered up fully I remember him telling me that.

From my experience most men are good. They really are good guys. The trifling men are few and far in between but they get all of the attention (i.e. Chris Brown). If all you hear about are the bad guys, you're going to think that ALL men are the same way.

 

[Britt]

From my experience most men are good. They really are good guys. The trifling men are few and far in between but they get all of the attention (i.e. Chris Brown). If all you hear about are the bad guys, you're going to think that ALL men are the same way.

I get it... I read that part of the book and then even thought of my trifling married coworkers who flirt with me and hit on me. I had to outright tell one the other day "dude, you are married, I will I never ever hit your phone and disrespect your wife like that." Ahhhh let's see as I continue on with the book, bc I see lots of trifling men, race, class, status be damned.

 

[Ivonnovi]

I get it... I read that part of the book and then even thought of my trifling married coworkers who flirt with me and hit on me. I had to outright tell one the other day "dude, you are married, I will I never ever hit your phone and disrespect your wife like that." Ahhhh let's see as I continue on with the book, bc I see lots of trifling men, race, class, status be damned.

I totally understand your perspective and experience(s); however my take away that kept my mind open and receptive to what the author is teaching was the following opinion:

The goal is to give or introduce YOU to an "empowered" perspective. Think of it as a defensive driving course, the goal is to keep you navigating confident and safely (as possible). [so you're not reacting out of anger or fear].​

Until listening to/reading her literature I had ab-so-lute-ly no idea how adversarial my life, and common social interactions were.

In Psychology/Criminalistics they teach about "The Broken Window Theory", of course I already know about the theory and IMHO the tools AA provides can enable one to possibly identify, address, and fix the "broken windows" in their own lives. As someone who's upbringing, relationships and work experiences normalized adverse behaviors; "I" have a lot of work to do.

 

[almond eyes]

If you are dating a man and you try to make him jealous with other men, men I agree with the others view that as a disrespect and emasculating behavior. If another man gets fresh with you he may end up having to fight for your honor and it would be so embarrassing if your man got his butt whipped in front of you.

But if the man is someone you like and you aren't dating, sometimes yes seeing you out there with another man/men having fun and others finding you desirable may be his tipping point as long as it is done in a classy manner.

Case in point when my cousin was dating this guy and he clearly liked her but got scared, she told him which was true that she was going to be taking up a consultancy post in another country. The man was so afraid that my cousin was going to take up with another guy that he proposed to her before she left. She returned after her consultancy ended and they got married.

But again as was pointed out which phase is the guy in Knight, Prince or King phase could determine that.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[hopeful]

@Britt
Believing that most men really are decent is pivotal in laying down the sword. Otherwise there really is no benefit in opening yourself up to trifling, no good men. If you believe the odds are that say 9/10 men are no good then it really isn't worth making these changes for 10% of the population. I had to sit down and really focus on all of the good dh has done. I had to think about my male family members and the various men I come in contact with and make an honest assessment. Only then was I able to put the sword down. Sometimes a few bad experiences cloud our judgement. As women we tend to zero in on and ruminate on the bad. Not sure why we do that but once you are aware of this habit it gets easier to see more good and positive.

The more you look for and expect good, the more comes your way and vice versa. We also have to believe that being feminine is a stength and not a weakness. We have to set boundaries and stick to them. We also have to keep reminding ourselves that no one is perfect. Lots of new stuff to learn and process.

 

[Britt]

@Britt
Believing that most men really are decent is pivotal in laying down the sword. Otherwise there really is no benefit in opening yourself up to trifling, no good men. If you believe the odds are that say 9/10 men are no good then it really isn't worth making these changes for 10% of the population. I had to sit down and really focus on all of the good dh has done. I had to think about my male family members and the various men I come in contact with and make an honest assessment. Only then was I able to put the sword down. Sometimes a few bad experiences cloud our judgement. As women we tend to zero in on and ruminate on the bad. Not sure why we do that but once you are aware of this habit it gets easier to see more good and positive.

Thank you! It will take a paradigm shift indeed.

 

[hopeful]

Thank you! It will take a paradigm shift indeed.

Yes. We have to stop attaching bad behavior to maleness and masculinity. Healthy masculinity is beautiful, protective, and giving.

 

[Britt]

Yes. We have to stop attaching bad behavior to maleness and masculinity. Healthy masculinity is beautiful, protective, and giving.

Is the premise of this "when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."? It seems my whole entire outlook towards men will need to change... Whew!

 

[hopeful]

Is the premise of this "when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."? It seems my whole entire outlook towards men will need to change... Whew!

Idk. After thinking about a lot of the men I know and have come across, I realized that most are pretty decent, very few bad apples. Decided to stop letting the small percentage of bad men poison my view of men in general.

 

[Kimbosheart]

Giving up the idea that he is misbehaving or intentionally working against me has been so freeing.

I gave us both the space to be ourselves. And everyday I get a lovely surprise in him with just how much he cares and loves me. I think its been freeing for him as well because he is more expressive.

Just try it. If you can't get your head around the thought they may have a good reason. Start by listening and giving it time before you react to what you think is going on.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Ok, how do you use TQC when you're not in a relationship? I feel like the information is so good and useful, but I'm not sure how to apply it in my own personal life.

 

[caribeandiva]

Ok, how do you use TQC when you're not in a relationship? I feel like the information is so good and useful, but I'm not sure how to apply it in my own personal life.

Use it on other men.

 

[Kimbosheart]

I would actually think it would be a bonus to not be in a relationship when you first discover TQC.

You wouldn't have to realize that you've emasculated and hurt someone you truly do care about. Plus you have the added ability to really put this in practice without the baggage of fear and emotion tied into a relationship. So much of what Alison teaches is learning to override that cave woman to stop being adversarial and see that men are men and that is ok. When you're in a relationship you've got all your feelings already wrapped up into this person and hopes and expectations and HISTORY to get over with this guy. That was the tough part for me. I wanted to hold on to my sword because he has hurt me before. Forgiveness wasn't some big event, it came slowly and quietly but I am so thankful it is here and that sword is kicked a little further away from me.

If I were single, I'd be hopeful about my interactions with my future guy and I'd be practicing on myself and other men I come into contact with. One place you can start alone in your room: quiet that perfect person (woman) in your head. Just practice telling her to shut up and you'll be so far ahead of the game when you do meet that special person.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Use it on other men.

I don't think it's that simple...I'm not going around and telling male acquaintances that they are my "hero" or they are my "provider."

TBH, I've always been on the more traditional side and not a ball buster...men have more annoyed me with their passivity or when they don't have impeccable manners. I'm learning to not take things personally.

But I just don't have a lot of close guy friends that I can use these techniques on. Oh well, I guess having the knowledge is what's important.

 

[Ivonnovi]

Ok, how do you use TQC when you're not in a relationship? I feel like the information is so good and useful, but I'm not sure how to apply it in my own personal life.

If I may..
The holiday's are approaching, and I will be in the presence of folks/family that with whom I have strained "ties". I pretty much know their playbooks and can anticipate the BS they will either act out or spew out.

I can only hope to keep my sword at bay, and tactfully maneuver my way through the holidays w/o swinging my swords like nunchakus.

I'll count, I'll try not to respond from anger, I plan to even walk-away from a few of them. Since I know their history, I also know the motivations behind their behaviors; therefore I am hoping to stay calm. Statements such as those below could be used in the workplace and/or with women too.

• I really need you to "not do (what ever the behavior is)"; perhaps with an explanation of why. [in the case of a small child: "don't chew with mouth open", and help them understand why]
  
• "What did you hope would be the outcome of "...insert their behavior or statement...". Some folks honestly do not understand the root cause and or affect of their behavior.
  
• What do you need from me to "....insert something that refers to them recovering from or letting go of hurt feelings"....(that influences their behavior). Lord knows we women will wait years for an apology for a slight that the other person didn't even know they'd made.

 

[Britt]

I would actually think it would be a bonus to not be in a relationship when you first discover TQC.

You wouldn't have to realize that you've emasculated and hurt someone you truly do care about. Plus you have the added ability to really put this in practice without the baggage of fear and emotion tied into a relationship. So much of what Alison teaches is learning to override that cave woman to stop being adversarial and see that men are men and that is ok. When you're in a relationship you've got all your feelings already wrapped up into this person and hopes and expectations and HISTORY to get over with this guy. That was the tough part for me. I wanted to hold on to my sword because he has hurt me before. Forgiveness wasn't some big event, it came slowly and quietly but I am so thankful it is here and that sword is kicked a little further away from me.

If I were single, I'd be hopeful about my interactions with my future guy and I'd be practicing on myself and other men I come into contact with. One place you can start alone in your room: quiet that perfect person (woman) in your head. Just practice telling her to shut up and you'll be so far ahead of the game when you do meet that special person.

I could see this. I'm dating now so the premises in the book will come in handy. As I was reading some of the book I was even picturing my interaction with my exes, and damnit I got upset! A trail of emotions, thoughts, events started to come to me.

 

[LoveisYou]

Now that I have started paying attention, I'm realizing that most of the men I come across are more chivalrous than I thought. Thank God for growth and insight.

 

[LoveisYou]

On manipulative folks.....

Ladies w/ discernment and the insight to see into ppl's motives and intentions - that is a blessing and a gift you have, personally I don't think you have to draw your sword and those ppl, you can be warm and kind to them and that's it. You don't have to do them any favors or let them in, be kind and K.I.M. You see them from a mile away, you have the wisdom to put up your boundaries.

 

[Britt]

On manipulative folks.....

Ladies w/ discernment and the insight to see into ppl's motives and intentions - that is a blessing and a gift you have, personally I don't think you have to draw your sword and those ppl, you can be warm and kind to them and that's it. You don't have to do them any favors or let them in, be kind and K.I.M. You see them from a mile away, you have the wisdom to put up your boundaries.

yes
yes
yes
and yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.