The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

^Thank you. Her teachings are very much in line with my traditional and Christian values (at least so far LOL). I always knew the way society taught women to behave (aggressive, take no prisoners) was not right but I'm learning why. I have definitely dismissed men or felt slighted by ungentlemanly behavior. Or I was disappointed by lack of chivalry or initiative.

I was reading the part where Karen listened to Mike as he told her how he felt emasculated by her. I think some men can feel not good enough and back off pursuing a woman even though he initially expressed interest. He might simply feel that he doesn't have anything to offer. I think the author would say to lovingly show him that he has a shot but move the hell on if he doesn't get it. This has happened to me but I always felt *I* was the problem, not the guy's fear of inadequacy.

I'm eager to use these techniques on a couple guys in my professional and social circles. I can't wait to learn how! If anyone has thoughts please share!
 
I think this is a great book. My question is for a single woman, can this be applied to casual male friendships or relationships? Can this encourage a guy to pursue? I'm only though chapter 2. Loving it so far!

Hi Belle,
The Queen's Code can and should be applied to casual male friendships. What I have noticed is that those of us who are married or are in serious relationships see the most immediate results, but over time I think all of us see a shift in all of our relationships. Even my relationship with my daughters is improving. And we already had a good relationship, it's just better though, more open and loving.

What I have noticed is that people become used to us carrying a sword, so even when we put it down, they may initially be skeptical, cautious. But overtime they start to trust that we won't cut them with our words or attitude. Operating this way over time and consistently creates a calmer and more loving environment for yourself and those around you. Good luck and keep us updated.
 
I wanted to talk more about mothering in general. I was talking to an older relative. She had a handy man at the house and she was telling me how she told him twice that he should eat lunch. He was around 60, a non-relative, that she just met the day he showed up to do work. I was kind of caught off guard and didn't really respond to what she told me. I guess she noticed and said I guess once a mother always a mother. I just said well I know that is your go to style :perplexed:. I didn't really know what to say. I didn't want to criticize her nor did I want to condone or praise her for doing that.

I just know when she described the situation to me it made me feel funny. The thought came to me that once a person is past a certain age, as in no longer a child, mothering them is passive aggressive emasculation. Maybe I'm doing too much? Overthinking this? Maybe it's no big deal and just being nice? Or how older people are? But this relative does this to everyone regardless of age and really gets on people's nerves with the don't forget your jacket and I really don't think you should do this or that, etc. I know sometimes our kids (young and as adults even) need some babying and extra tending to, but on a regular basis and constantly and when not asked for or needed, I think it is harmful to relationships. Hampers children from growing up and learning lessons. Makes husbands less attracted to you, etc. And just plain annoying. Also not a good model to kids if mom is always focused on and worrying about others.

When I read Getting to I Do, she said once a child is 5 you should get back to you and being more feminine again. Of course you still cook for them, wash clothes, etc. but the babying and over mothering is too much.

I think this is part of the Queen's Code conversation. Any thoughts ladies?


This struck a cord with me b/c I can be very nurturing. I'm not even a mother and when I'm around little children I see that if I were a mom I'd probably be slightly overly nurturing/mothering and over protective of them. Even with my SO's I tend to cater to them in some ways.
 
@hopeful, my mom baby-sat 5-year old nephew one day, and afterwards I asked, "Well, how did it go?"

She said, "Oh, great! He helped me with this . . . and that . . . and this . . . . He was really excited and proud of himself."

I thought, "Ohhhhh ho!"

So the next day I said, "Nephew, I need your help doing the laundry." His eyes got big with glee: "Laundry! I've NEVER done that before!!!" How does it work?"

That little boy had so much fun doing laundry. He has to step up on a step stool to help (so cute), but that doesn't deter him. And when his grandparents come over, he makes sure to announce, "Today I did this, and I did this, and I did the laundry, and I did this . . ."

One day I let him help me cook chicken. He had a BLAST shaking up the large plastic baggie of flour. He's a finicky eater, and so when I said, "How does your food taste to you?" I was expecting some of anything. :laugh: He said, "Oh, my chicken tastes GOODT!" LOL.

This little boy! :smile: At first it was making me feel SOME KIND OF WAY when he stopped seeing me as the only/first/final authority and starting looking to the men, but I'm glad the men hold authority in his life. It's good.

What a cute story! Thanks for sharing! I could picture your little nephew wanting to help out and being excited..
 
@almond eyes
A great friend wouldn't continue to disregard your feelings and boundaries. I'm sorry. You want something different than he wants and he's not giving up. No need for you to ever explain anything to him again. Simply move on. In your heart wish him well and find another friend who respects your boundaries or be satisfied with the other male friends you have. You have to let him go. I know it's not easy. But you can't change his actions and feelings anymore than he can change yours.


Great advice and outlook.
I swear I wish I could pocket you and keep in back pocket as a go to guide lol
 
A paraphrased description of femininity (from KTTK).


Femininity can be described as special quality inheirent in women. They exist in every woman as a potential; whether or not she expresses these qualities is up to her. No matter how she was raised as an Adult she can choose what she chooses to nurture and express; she just needs to understand what the qualities are and how to nurture them.

I am listening to Keys to the Kingdom. Here are my notes that may be applicable to your situation (@almond eyes) . I know that some men are not aware of the "teasing" differences;


Two (2) of the Queen’s Qualities (there are more but I've not got there yet. :


· Receptivity, (the ability to receive vs. take) We should receive gift’s graciously & not expect them. We need to practice responding from a receptive perspective, versus the all-to-normal declination (ooh no, I can’t accept that; you didn’t have to do that…) perspective. This applies to open doors, chair pull backs, unexpected flower(s); i.e. Kind Gestures. ETA(again): AA. identifies this as a form of generosity (to men).

· A King reacts differently to an incident when a woman actually receives his gift [graciously]; especially if he is used to women taking from him. Genuinely thank him for holding the door; pulling the out; the impromptu gesture ; and if it’s a stranger KIM, it takes nothing from you AND IMHO that may be the rare occasion he’s treated like a KING. Consider it paying it forward​

· Playfulness (includes sensuality and sexuality) These qualities encourage men to participate ([# they are receptive/engaging]).

o We cannot tease men the way they tease each other. Playful and teasing must be done in a kind way; but not in a harsh way, men receive this [from women] as if the woman was cutting them down (emasculating?)​

**AGAIN I believe in the reverse of this situation; men can't tease women like they tease Men; it sounds to me as if this gentlemen isn't aware of how injurious his teasing could be.


Okay ladies another question. So how do you handle a man who teases when do you know where to draw the line. If a man says the following, how would you handle it, "I hear so many black females in the law are single?" without flying off the handle. I know now not to have a tizzy fit and be calm as in the past. And also if a man that is in your social group that you are attracted to always talks about your physicality and your body, how to do deal with that to reel him in without feeling like he is objectifying you?

Best,
Almond Eyes

I'd like to suggest you either
a (passive): find a neutral friend in the group share that you're somewhat interested in him, but that his approach is a little off-putting; have the neutral friend advise him that he's not barking up the wrong tree but his approach is too skrong. (I've been the neutral friend in the past)
or
b (direct): somehow advise him that "he's not barking up the wrong tree but his approach is off-putting. You need to be sure that his interests run deeper than the physical" (Be sincere but playful [in this case be light about the subject-matter].....see how he reacts)

ETA: If he does not respond accordingly to your request then you will know that he's not a relationship candidate for you.
 
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I think it's really interesting how this applies to other types of relationships too. Masculine women and I don't get along too well -- now I know why :look:. I see them in a completely different light now as well. And I can see why I got on their nerves too :lol:.

Ok! I just bought the book on my Kindle and gonna start reading.

Regarding the bolded, same here... I'm interested to glean some insight when I read the book.
 
A paraphrased description of femininity (from KTTK).


Femininity can be described as special quality inheirent in women. They exist in every woman as a potential; whether or not she expresses these qualities is up to her. No matter how she was raised as an Adult she can choose what she chooses to nurture and express; she just needs to understand what the qualities are and how to nurture them.

I am listening to Keys to the Kingdom. Here are my notes that may be applicable to your situation (@almond eyes) . I know that some men are not aware of the "teasing" differences;


Two (2) of the Queen’s Qualities (there are more but I've not got there yet. :


· Receptivity, (the ability to receive vs. take) We should receive gift’s graciously & not expect them. We need to practice responding from a receptive perspective, versus the all-to-normal declination (ooh no, I can’t accept that; you didn’t have to do that…) perspective. This applies to open doors, chair pull backs, unexpected flower(s); i.e. Kind Gestures.

· A King reacts differently to an incident when a woman actually receives his gift [graciously]; especially if he is used to women taking from him. Genuinely thank him for holding the door; pulling the out; the impromptu gesture ; and if it’s a stranger KIM, it takes nothing from you AND IMHO that may be the rare occasion he’s treated like a KING. Consider it paying it forward​

· Playfulness (includes sensuality and sexuality) These qualities encourage men to participate ([# they are receptive/engaging]).

o We cannot tease men the way they tease each other. Playful and teasing must be done in a kind way; but not in a harsh way, men receive this [from women] as if the woman was cutting them down (emasculating?)​

**AGAIN I believe in the reverse of this situation; men can't tease women like they tease Men; it sounds to me as if this gentlemen isn't aware of how injurious his teasing could be.




I'd like to suggest you either
a (passive): find a neutral friend in the group share that you're somewhat interested in him, but that his approach is a little off-putting; have the neutral friend advise him that he's not barking up the wrong tree but his approach is too skrong. (I've been the neutral friend in the past)
or
b (direct): somehow advise him that "he's not barking up the wrong tree but his approach is off-putting. You need to be sure that his interests run deeper than the physical" (Be sincere but playful [in this case be light about the subject-matter].....see how he reacts)

Thanks so much. I agree sometimes men also don't get the teasing issue but I realize that I too must not react to a teasing situation in such a salty manner unless it is terribly offensive. Men tease me a lot especially physical teasing. And I have had to learn not all teasing is personal. But there is a lot I am learning in terms of being direct but also neutralizing.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
Ok! I just bought the book on my Kindle and gonna start reading.

Regarding the bolded, same here... I'm interested to glean some insight when I read the book.

It's funny you say that. I met a gf for drinks and she told me there was something I should do and I reacted a little harshly. I'm going to text her today to smooth it over a bit. She is such a wonderful person but her energy is so masculine that it sometimes catches me off guard. Had a man sad what she said I would have been more open but because she is a woman I find myself expecting a different kind of conversation from her. But she is who she is and I will continue to try to be more accepting of her energy.
 
@hopeful Regarding mothering versus smothering/dominating:

Nurturing: ( another attribute of femininity); women can sense needs; but it is our compassion (an interpretive sub category of nurturing) that allows us to accurately respond; (AA identifies compassion, as “the ability to enter into another person’s world, whether it is their emotions/mental state/physical experience and see what it’s like to be them”).
Often [or without invite] we initiate actions (nurturing/sans real compassion) to meet these needs and may come off as pushy or bossy “instead of nurturing and effective; [think of the mother character on Everybody Loves Raymond]. Compassion has to be practiced.​
[Notes interpreted from KTTK}

@Kimbosheart

I don’t know of any platform where AA addresses these specifically, but MY THOUGHT is that the tools she provides can be used to better Negotiate and Navigate interactions. Notice I used "interactions" and not "relationships". If I was able to list a few steps I would offer the following:

1. Understand the Stages of Development in Men*, this provides insight into where the person is in development. Detailed in her book Keys to the Kingdom (KTTK), using this info IMHO you can adjust your approach respectively. [BTW: Paige’s are boys birth-adolescents].


2. Refine your dating practices. AA’s: In-sync with the Opposite sex. I listened on Audible books. GREAT explanation of how men and women interact and often communicate differently. AA has men and women in the audience share their experiences, expectations and desires. She also clearly spells out the how and why the two sexes can achieve TOTALLY different interpretations of the same situation


3. The below Non-AA reference is applicable to all relationships/interactions. The quote below is actually in regards to family dynamics & found mid-way down the page under the paragraph labeled: Creating the Escape Hatch--Rising Above the Drama Triangle:

· (From: http://www.angriesout.com/grown20.htm ) “Sometimes other family members see the value of getting healthy in their interactions with others; others do not. You can interrupt your Drama Triangle role playing and change the way you interact with family members. The whole recovery movement--therapy, self help books, AA and other help yourself groups, Oprah and Dr. Phil--teaches you how to change YOUR part of the dynamics of interacting with others. You can only change yourself. You can learn to be direct and straight with people without playing games.”​
 
Just read this on the Facebook page:

"Forward" is a way of being in pursuit and a man only has two choices to being pursued: resist or submit. Neither one will empower him. But men appreciate a woman being direct and you can let a man know you're interested, which he'll find quite flattering and admire your courage, without "hunting" him.

The missing element is "Encouragement." The more a man cares about you, the bigger risk he's taking by asking you out. To expend that energy, instinctively he needs to know he's got a good shot at you saying 'Yes.' This is why he needs encouragement from you. And the only way to truly encourage him is by taking a risk yourself, as much as you may not want to do that. You may fail, especially if you're chasing chemistry (see Making Sense of Men*) but if you're paying attention to the men you resonate with, your chances will increase. Either way, don't let a 'No' stop you from trying again with another man. Eighteen years ago I left a message on Greg's answering machine: "I think we should be really good friends... Or something..." in my most mischievous voice. You can also try, "If you asked me out, I would say yes." And SMILE!" - Alison Armstrong
 
The missing element is "Encouragement." The more a man cares about you, the bigger risk he's taking by asking you out. To expend that energy, instinctively he needs to know he's got a good shot at you saying 'Yes.' This is why he needs encouragement from you.
This flies in the face of what "The Rules" teach. She's right though.
 
This flies in the face of what "The Rules" teach. She's right though.

And I think this is what @Crystalicequeen123 meant when she said the Rules come from a place of fear. It's all strategy. TQC is about coming from a place of vulnerability, honesty and respect.

To me, encouragement is the same as dropping a hanky. I mean why would a guy these days just ask a woman out without some assurance of success? Especially if it's someone he will see again socially or professionally, not a random person on the street? It makes total sense to me. Encourage don't chase. I think it's very feminine to draw a man to yourself and have him feel that you would be receptive to him asking you out. I'm hoping she's going to get more into this because I need to learn how to do it LOL.

Maybe people can share how they encourage men without chasing?
 
Maybe people can share how they encourage men without chasing?
Omg this makes total sense. I'm with my current guy because I encouraged him. I didn't even realize how I did it until now. He would ask me out in a joking manner to hang out just as friends since he had a girlfriend. Because he wasn't my type (younger, player and taken :yep:) I had no expectations of him and didn't care how anything turned out. He couldn't make it so I told him he owed me a date. We stayed friends for years.

One day he started telling me how he's leaving his gf and wishes he was with me instead. Again he said the last part as a joke so I didn't take him seriously. He kept joking about how he was scared to be with me cuz my dad and brothers would kill him. I told him that's true but at least you'd die happy cuz you'd have a hot girlfriend like me. :yep: We both laughed and that was that.

A few weeks later, I had a dinner party to go to and asked him out as a joke and wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine. :lol: I said I was collecting on the date he owed me a while back. I had no intention of taking a date since I am very comfortable going to events alone. Imagine my surprise when he agreed. I thought he was gonna say no since I was convinced he wasn't serious those other times either. The rest is history.

I later found out that he was basically throwing out feelers to see how I'd respond if he were to ask me out. That's what the jokes were. And I was unknowingly dropping hankies left and right because I didn't take him seriously. I think my friends are right. Maybe I AM that naive.
 
Just read this on the Facebook page:

"Forward" is a way of being in pursuit and a man only has two choices to being pursued: resist or submit. Neither one will empower him. But men appreciate a woman being direct and you can let a man know you're interested, which he'll find quite flattering and admire your courage, without "hunting" him.

The missing element is "Encouragement." The more a man cares about you, the bigger risk he's taking by asking you out. To expend that energy, instinctively he needs to know he's got a good shot at you saying 'Yes.' This is why he needs encouragement from you. And the only way to truly encourage him is by taking a risk yourself, as much as you may not want to do that. You may fail, especially if you're chasing chemistry (see Making Sense of Men*) but if you're paying attention to the men you resonate with, your chances will increase. Either way, don't let a 'No' stop you from trying again with another man. Eighteen years ago I left a message on Greg's answering machine: "I think we should be really good friends... Or something..." in my most mischievous voice. You can also try, "If you asked me out, I would say yes." And SMILE!" - Alison Armstrong


I agree! I think some men need a little wee bit coaching in approaching women. I realize that not all are as outgoing and confident enough to brazenly come at you without you showing at least slight interest. I met a guy recently and my first phone convo with him was kinda awkward but my curiosity wanted to meet him. As I would text him I would see little tidbits that he's interested but not the usual type to just be so bold with it. Well I met him and we text and talk frequently, I told him I want him to come for him if he's interested and he told me he will do that if he knows the person wants to be caught. Makes sense. When I met him I could sense he was a little guarded in some ways, but I see now he's starting to open up little by little -- but that's only b/c I comfortably let him know it's okkkkkkk to do so. I flirt with him, I'm warm towards him.
At first I interpreted his lack of blatantly coming outright and asking to go out as a sign of weakness, awkwardness, lack of real interest. But as soon as I told him I felt he wasn't interested he was all "i'm gonna show you! Watch and you'll see.. what time you get off work, etc". He needed some prodding.
 
And I think this is what @Crystalicequeen123 meant when she said the Rules come from a place of fear. It's all strategy. TQC is about coming from a place of vulnerability, honesty and respect.

To me, encouragement is the same as dropping a hanky. I mean why would a guy these days just ask a woman out without some assurance of success? Especially if it's someone he will see again socially or professionally, not a random person on the street? It makes total sense to me. Encourage don't chase. I think it's very feminine to draw a man to yourself and have him feel that you would be receptive to him asking you out. I'm hoping she's going to get more into this because I need to learn how to do it LOL.

Maybe people can share how they encourage men without chasing?

I am learning this now especially b/c I'm normally used to more bold/smooth dudes that will make their intentions known and clear and have more outward confidence. The person that I've been speaking to is more reserved and less demonstrative than myself but it comes out of him at times. I have to prod him some, but now he's opening up. He is different than what I am used to. Last night he told me I'm easy to read in terms of me showing interest to him. I was veryyyyyy flirty with him when I spent the day with him last Saturday, very touchy and affectionate but not sexual. When I text him I'm always bubbly... so much that I hope doesn't think I'm always like that :look: , but I see he likes that about me. But I can tell he has interest in me, if I wasn't sure I wouldn't be as warm/flirty/talk/text him. I think from my experience that's the difference between chasing and encouraging -- getting a sense at the very least that the person is interested. Now he's setting up more dates and even asked me last night if he could see me before Friday lol.
 
Omg this makes total sense. I'm with my current guy because I encouraged him. I didn't even realize how I did it until now. He would ask me out in a joking manner to hang out just as friends since he had a girlfriend. Because he wasn't my type (younger, player and taken :yep:) I had no expectations of him and didn't care how anything turned out. He couldn't make it so I told him he owed me a date. We stayed friends for years.

One day he started telling me how he's leaving his gf and wishes he was with me instead. Again he said the last part as a joke so I didn't take him seriously. He kept joking about how he was scared to be with me cuz my dad and brothers would kill him. I told him that's true but at least you'd die happy cuz you'd have a hot girlfriend like me. :yep: We both laughed and that was that.

A few weeks later, I had a dinner party to go to and asked him out as a joke and wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine. :lol: I said I was collecting on the date he owed me a while back. I had no intention of taking a date since I am very comfortable going to events alone. Imagine my surprise when he agreed. I thought he was gonna say no since I was convinced he wasn't serious those other times either. The rest is history.

I later found out that he was basically throwing out feelers to see how I'd respond if he were to ask me out. That's what the jokes were. And I was unknowingly dropping hankies left and right because I didn't take him seriously. I think my friends are right. Maybe I AM that naive.


Great story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Men do throw out feelers but I guess sometimes we miss those moments. But the best part is if they really like you they will keep throwing out those feelers though not forever.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
I think a good healthy normal man is in tune with women in a way we don't understand. They know they need us and want us around. They want us happy and smiling and not afraid.

We argued earlier in this thread or the other about how the rules was based in fear vs the rules providing boundaries. Some women felt they really needed the boundaries. What I needed and found in the queens code was the freedom from fear.

For me, it has made me more comfortable in my skin, more feminine and unapologetically so. I can smile at a gentlemen and receive his attention and encourage more by being more at ease and even more feminine. My femininity really comes out when fear is diminished and reduced.

Which now I think feeds the loop. If a man's purpose is to provide and protect- they want us smiling and feeling safe to help give them a feeling of a job well done on providing and protecting. So diminishing fear is a win for us all. We can encourage them with our smiles, easy conversation, receiving the small things from them.

So all that to say. Even when we are following the "rules" but we are still afraid of anything men can sense that. It doesn't make them feel good and they move on to the next.
 
I slipped up and grabbed my sword last night. :wallbash: highly frustrating

It was a bad day - first day of my cycle, shitstorm at work, family life on fleek, etc. I got home from work after DH (he usually gets home after me) so I was hella frustrated because I hate not having dinner prepped, the house straightened up, etc. And when I walked in, he was watching sports and on his phone. For some reason that ticked me off LOL I have no clue why.

So I reverted to my "old" self and was very short/dry most of the night. Not rude or mean, I just gave very brief answers on everything and didn't engage as I usually do. He didn't let me get away though - he was in my face all night lol like, Woman you GON talk to me. :lol: He knows me.

He had today off but I needed to come into the office, so we've been exchanging playful texts all day thankfully.

I hate that I had a slip up though, but I know it happens..... I feel like it sets things back, though I know it can be repaired.
 
I slipped up and grabbed my sword last night. :wallbash: highly frustrating

It was a bad day - first day of my cycle, shitstorm at work, family life on fleek, etc. I got home from work after DH (he usually gets home after me) so I was hella frustrated because I hate not having dinner prepped, the house straightened up, etc. And when I walked in, he was watching sports and on his phone. For some reason that ticked me off LOL I have no clue why.

So I reverted to my "old" self and was very short/dry most of the night. Not rude or mean, I just gave very brief answers on everything and didn't engage as I usually do. He didn't let me get away though - he was in my face all night lol like, Woman you GON talk to me. :lol: He knows me.

He had today off but I needed to come into the office, so we've been exchanging playful texts all day thankfully.

I hate that I had a slip up though, but I know it happens..... I feel like it sets things back, though I know it can be repaired.

Yes. That's why AA talked early on about us and them not being perfect and not being too hard on ourselves or them. I have to say that this is my biggest struggle. I hate setbacks. I just want things to ALWAYS run smoothly even though I know that is not possible. I love that you two are exchanging playful texts today. That makes me happy for you and him.
 
I slipped up and grabbed my sword last night. :wallbash: highly frustrating

It was a bad day - first day of my cycle, shitstorm at work, family life on fleek, etc. I got home from work after DH (he usually gets home after me) so I was hella frustrated because I hate not having dinner prepped, the house straightened up, etc. And when I walked in, he was watching sports and on his phone. For some reason that ticked me off LOL I have no clue why.

So I reverted to my "old" self and was very short/dry most of the night. Not rude or mean, I just gave very brief answers on everything and didn't engage as I usually do. He didn't let me get away though - he was in my face all night lol like, Woman you GON talk to me. :lol: He knows me.

He had today off but I needed to come into the office, so we've been exchanging playful texts all day thankfully.

I hate that I had a slip up though, but I know it happens..... I feel like it sets things back, though I know it can be repaired.
Slip ups happen. I can be a huge ***** when I'm PMSing to. Laaawwwddd... Now whenever I start feeling really pissy, angry or basically overreacting about something I normally don't. Then I check if my period is on Its way.
 
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