The Queen's Code By Alison Armstrong Bookclub

hopeful said:
I wanted to talk more about mothering in general. I was talking to an older relative. She had a handy man at the house and she was telling me how she told him twice that he should eat lunch. He was around 60, a non-relative, that she just met the day he showed up to do work. I was kind of caught off guard and didn't really respond to what she told me. I guess she noticed and said I guess once a mother always a mother. I just said well I know that is your go to style :perplexed:. I didn't really know what to say. I didn't want to criticize her nor did I want to condone or praise her for doing that.

I just know when she described the situation to me it made me feel funny. The thought came to me that once a person is past a certain age, as in no longer a child, mothering them is passive aggressive emasculation. Maybe I'm doing too much? Overthinking this? Maybe it's no big deal and just being nice? Or how older people are? But this relative does this to everyone regardless of age and really gets on people's nerves with the don't forget your jacket and I really don't think you should do this or that, etc. I know sometimes our kids (young and as adults even) need some babying and extra tending to, but on a regular basis and constantly and when not asked for or needed, I think it is harmful to relationships. Hampers children from growing up and learning lessons. Makes husbands less attracted to you, etc. And just plain annoying. Also not a good model to kids if mom is always focused on and worrying about others.

When I read Getting to I Do, she said once a child is 5 you should get back to you and being more feminine again. Of course you still cook for them, wash clothes, etc. but the babying and over mothering is too much.

I think this is part of the Queen's Code conversation. Any thoughts ladies?
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I think you're spot on with your observations. I too tend to (s)mother people, especially men. It IS a passive aggressive form of emasculation. I've gotta constantly catch myself when I do it because in my mind I'm being helpful. :rolleyes:
 
hopeful said:
When I read Getting to I Do, she said once a child is 5 you should get back to you and being more feminine again. Of course you still cook for them, wash clothes, etc. but the babying and over mothering is too much.

I think this is part of the Queen's Code conversation. Any thoughts ladies?
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Very interesting post, @hopeful!

I notice that my 5-year old nephew acts very grown up when he is around men folks (who don't baby him), but reverts/resorts to childish, "please-baby-me" ways in my presence.

It's interesting because I want him to exhibit the maturity I know he has! But I'm too worried about "damaging his feelings/ego" if I speak to him the way the men folks do, e.g., "Man up!" or "Nope, I'm not going to do that for you, because I KNOW you can do that yourself."

I tend to look at those puppy dog eyes and respond with, "You can't do it? You need help? Okay . . . I can help." Meaning: You're not alone in this.

But when the men folks leave nephew to fend for himself? He gets it done eventually somehow and is VERY happy with himself.

I've been watching this dynamic for more than a month now and am working to deactivate the "see me whine so baby me" dynamic that I have inadvertently encouraged!
 
caribeandiva said:
I think you're spot on with your observations. I too tend to (s)mother people, especially men. It IS a passive aggressive form of emasculation. I've gotta constantly catch myself when I do it because in my mind I'm being helpful. :rolleyes:
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Thanks for the feedback. I noticed her recently doing it with her husband and he completely ignored her. I could tell her feelings were hurt but I wanted to tell her leave him alone. Your husband is grown. He knows how to eat when he is hungry. He'd much rather you just be sweet to him and kindly thank him for something he's done for you, than (s)mother him. I think it goes back to receiving well. She doesn't receive well at all. It's always that's too much or you shouldn't have done that etc., vs. a generous thank you.
 
mysblossom said:
Very interesting post, @hopeful!

I notice that my 5-year old nephew acts very grown up when he is around men folks (who don't baby him), but reverts/resorts to childish, "please-baby-me" ways in my presence.

It's interesting because I want him to exhibit the maturity I know he has! But I'm too worried about "damaging his feelings/ego" if I speak to him the way the men folks do, e.g., "Man up!" or "Nope, I'm not going to do that for you, because I KNOW you can do that yourself."

I tend to look at those puppy dog eyes and respond with, "You can't do it? You need help? Okay . . . I can help." Meaning: You're not alone in this.

But when the men folks leave nephew to fend for himself? He gets it done eventually somehow and is VERY happy with himself.

I've been watching this dynamic for more than a month now and am working to deactivate the "see me whine so baby me" dynamic that I have inadvertently encouraged!
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Good example! Thank you for this. I think doing too much for others prevents them from learning how to do for themselves and having the pride in knowing they are capable. Not so much how to fend for themselves or that they are alone, but just like hey you are capable, you can do some things for yourself, you rock (and I am not your servant :look: either). Some people take it too far and try to make children their little servants which IMO is not cool at all. But they can help you bring in the groceries, put something away for you etc. I like how the Queen's Code talks about men's noble character and their desire to be heroes. That warms my heart. How wonderful to teach and encourage boys to be strong and noble.
 
hopeful said:
Good example! Thank you for this. I think doing too much for others prevents them from learning how to do for themselves and having the pride in knowing they are capable. Not so much how to fend for themselves or that they are alone, but just like hey you are capable, you can do some things for yourself, you rock (and I am not your servant :look: either). Some people take it too far and try to make children their little servants which IMO is not cool at all. But they can help you bring in the groceries, put something away for you etc. I like how the Queen's Code talks about men's noble character and their desire to be heroes. That warms my heart. How wonderful to teach and encourage boys to be strong and noble.
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@hopeful, my mom baby-sat 5-year old nephew one day, and afterwards I asked, "Well, how did it go?"

She said, "Oh, great! He helped me with this . . . and that . . . and this . . . . He was really excited and proud of himself."

I thought, "Ohhhhh ho!"

So the next day I said, "Nephew, I need your help doing the laundry." His eyes got big with glee: "Laundry! I've NEVER done that before!!!" How does it work?"

That little boy had so much fun doing laundry. He has to step up on a step stool to help (so cute), but that doesn't deter him. And when his grandparents come over, he makes sure to announce, "Today I did this, and I did this, and I did the laundry, and I did this . . ."

One day I let him help me cook chicken. He had a BLAST shaking up the large plastic baggie of flour. He's a finicky eater, and so when I said, "How does your food taste to you?" I was expecting some of anything. :laugh: He said, "Oh, my chicken tastes GOODT!" LOL.

This little boy! :smile: At first it was making me feel SOME KIND OF WAY when he stopped seeing me as the only/first/final authority and starting looking to the men, but I'm glad the men hold authority in his life. It's good.
 
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hopeful said:
Thanks for the feedback. I noticed her recently doing it with her husband and he completely ignored her. I could tell her feelings were hurt but I wanted to tell her leave him alone. Your husband is grown. He knows how to eat when he is hungry. He'd much rather you just be sweet to him and kindly thank him for something he's done for you, than (s)mother him. I think it goes back to receiving well. She doesn't receive well at all. It's always that's too much or you shouldn't have done that etc., vs. a generous thank you.
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To be honest, I have to catch myself with the mothering thing. And I'm not a mom. But I can tend to be to my classmates.

I'm 32, so most of the kids in my class are 19-22, so there is definitely that younger student vibe I have for them. Just last week, we were getting in pairs to do a class assignment. My partner and I finished rehearsing. I looked around and saw a guy sitting by himself on his phone, no partner. I asked if he had one and when he said no, if he'd like to join our group and practice with us. SO he did, a little.

Then when we were actually filming the project, we linked up with another group to run the equipment. So, I made a point to try to include the outlier, but he ended up getting lost in the shuffle. At first, I felt bad, but then I had to remember, this is a group man. He knows what the assignment is and what he has to do. If he doesn't, that's not my problem to fix. If he wanted to join our group, he knows how to open his mouth and ask.

This is a kid I barely know. I know I'm prone to slipping into mommy mode with people I'm comfortable with. Good time to practice and learn.
 
@ladysaraii
I had the same problem when I went back to school, especially when I was finishing my prerequisites because the students were younger in those classes. Some people would just kind of latch on to me for dear life :lol:. At first I thought it was cute but then realized I ain't got time for this, I need to focus on me and my goals. Plus I already have two kids that I'm trying to stop over mothering. Now that I'm in grad school it's not so much a problem thank goodness. We all try to support and encourage each other equally.
 
So I've finished the Celebrating Partnership Course. This course covers several topics, more in-depth, than TQC and some new topics as well.
- Injuries to the Feminine and Masculine
- "Plans"
- Phases of the Hunt
- Provider/Protector and Supporter/Enabler
- Healing the Feminine and Masculine
- Values, Dreams and Goals
- Making Deals
- Sex in the context of providing

I would definitely recommend this course for someone currently in a romantic relationship. It's definitely good for other types of relationships such as business etc, especially the first few topics, but I think because of the proximity and time you spend with a SO/Spouse you would be able to see a bigger benefit faster.
 
So I finally listened to the first call-in for the book club hosted by Alison.

I recommend it. The first session was an intro into writing the book and the characters. While most of this info wasn't new she did provide some good information on the purpose of each character and what they represent along with different ways to observe the character in the book. She also provided some "deepening questions" that she suggested you journal on to get the most out of the book and the book club experience. There was about 30 minutes of Q&A, however her rule for this part is that you can only ask questions if you've done the homework (journaling) and read the chapter. She stated that she is trying to take the material as far out as she can. She also revealed that another book is coming. An additional surprise is that they offer virtual small group discussions after the 90 min call that you can choose to participate in.
 
Ladies I am coming in here to say that believe it or not a "male" counterpart to us FrogFarmers exists!!!!! I just abruptly got off the phone with my male Melissa.
During our convo, I "Listened" then asked him politely if he could have resolved his issue without resorting to insulting the young lady. ...he insisted that he couldn't and justified it because everyone else there knows she has a bad attitude.......blah blah..
In many ways he is a King, but I swear that during that exchange he was farming. (Told the girl that that's why so many BLK men go for YT women, in front of her co-workers)

I made up an excuse and abruptly got off the phone.

As I resumed my task I had the bolded epiphany. Along with the realization that now I know how to better (tactfully) avoid or navigate way from some of the characteristics that would trigger my sword.
 
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Ivonnovi said:
Sooooo, am I the only one that had a problem with that direct request for sex?
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What do you mean? Are you talking about ...
when Kimberlee propositioned Jake (I think that's his name)? Or something else?
 
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Oh and just popping in to say that everything continues to go GREAT! Really great. Putting down the sword is a gift to your honey, to you, your children. Really, it's life changing. I mean what loving person wants to go around slicing and stabbing the people they love the most and who love them the most? When I first put it down I felt so vulnerable. Then I felt pretty good, you know like okay this isn't so bad, I'm seeing positive results etc. And things just keep getting better in every area of my life. Day after day, week after week. It's like when your doctor gives you medicine and he says it may take a few weeks before you see the full effects (or is it affect?). Anyway, you know you kind of roll your eyes but before you know it the results keep improving. So all that to say if you are only seeing a minimal difference, keep at it. Nothing good comes from carrying a sword anyway, unless you do intentionally want to hurt someone. And unfortunately who we also end up hurting so often is ourselves.
 
hopeful said:
What do you mean? Are you talking about when Kimberlee propositioned Jake (I think that's his name)? Or something else?
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Yep, I didn't want to put the spoiler in; but I felt her proposition was a bit rushed. I read that like a direct request for a FWB without her first getting to know him (on that level); it felt almost as though she objectified him (with his consent). It also allowed him to focus his future behaviors and conversations on "claiming" the prize. Even though they share a mutual friend, she really didn't know the fella.

I understand being direct but I've known enough about dating/work relations to know that once you carry the relationship to a more 1-on-1 personal status, you still have to exercise a level of discernment; just as you would any other dating situation.
 
Okay, well I saw it as ...
her practicing" on him, on being more open sexually, without any other expectations. Because of the abuse she suffered in the past she was very afraid of sex. So in this case the focus was on healing vs. having a great relationship with the love of her life. But she did objectify him and he was offended, but also willing to provide and hoping more would come of it as well. This would not be the way to go in most cases though.
 
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hopeful said:
Okay, well I saw it as ...her practicing" on him, on being more open sexually, without any other expectations. Because of the abuse she suffered in the past she was very afraid of sex. So in this case the focus was on healing vs. having a great relationship with the love of her life. But she did objectify him and he was offended, but also willing to provide and hoping more would come of it as well. This would not be the way to go in most cases though.
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I saw it this way as well. :yep:
 
I'm going to re-read the book. It's definitely made a positive change in my interactions with my current and just people in general. I listen a lot more intently now, and hearing more than when I felt the need to interrupt others. Such a relief. The sword has been tossed! I don't know what, but I feel some good happening in the very near future with this new outlook. Happy Sunday ladies!
 
Some advise ladies how do you handle men in your group that like you and you don't like them back at all. I mean how to you handle telling them no without emasculating them. I have been telling one guy for the longest time in the nicest way that I am not interested (for a number of valid reasons) and he still doesn't get it and can be quite pushy trying to invite me alone to places and offering to send me a plane ticket. I don't want to emasculate him and call him out but he doesn't listen. The last time we were alone three years ago and I told him he leaned in for a kiss. That was very upsetting. He's a great friend but nothing more to me.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
@almond eyes
A great friend wouldn't continue to disregard your feelings and boundaries. I'm sorry. You want something different than he wants and he's not giving up. No need for you to ever explain anything to him again. Simply move on. In your heart wish him well and find another friend who respects your boundaries or be satisfied with the other male friends you have. You have to let him go. I know it's not easy. But you can't change his actions and feelings anymore than he can change yours.
 
hopeful said:
@almond eyes
A great friend wouldn't continue to disregard your feelings and boundaries. I'm sorry. You want something different than he wants and he's not giving up. No need for you to ever explain anything to him again. Simply move on. In your heart wish him well and find another friend who respects your boundaries or be satisfied with the other male friends you have. You have to let him go. I know it's not easy. But you can't change his actions and feelings anymore than he can change yours.
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Thanks so much for that. I need to remember the lesson about boundaries.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
almond eyes said:
Some advise ladies how do you handle men in your group that like you and you don't like them back at all. I mean how to you handle telling them no without emasculating them. I have been telling one guy for the longest time in the nicest way that I am not interested (for a number of valid reasons) and he still doesn't get it and can be quite pushy trying to invite me alone to places and offering to send me a plane ticket. I don't want to emasculate him and call him out but he doesn't listen. The last time we were alone three years ago and I told him he leaned in for a kiss. That was very upsetting. He's a great friend but nothing more to me.

Best,
Almond Eyes
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Tell him how it makes you feel. E.g. "I really like you as a friend, but your romantic gestures/advances make me feel like you're not listening to me. I want to continue being your friend, but I also need to be able to trust you and you're making me feel unsafe."

Also tell him that if his behavior continues, you'll end the friendship. Then stick to your decision.

I had a friend like this and he just wouldn't understand that I wasn't interested. He had some great friends though who liked me and were decent guys, but he made sure to block anything from happening. I eventually had to end the friendship.
 
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