The Events of CHRIST'S RETURN

natalied said:
It's hard to explain via internet. Humm. Going to church does not equal being a Christian in my book. Coming to an edifice and "doing the right things" does not make you a Christian.

People come to church for many different reasons. Companionship, habit, social structure, peer pressure, family pressure,etc. None of these is a basis for a relationship with Christ.

Accepting Christ with your entire being and loving him is being a Christian. Fear plays not part in this.

A relationship with Christ based on fear is not of God.

2Timothy:1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind


ITA! My point exactly. What is a Christian anyhow? Ask a million different folks and get a thousand different answers depending on denomination. It's just a title. Man looks outwardly, but God looks at the heart.
 
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Delightful Flame, per the forum rules - the whole purpose of me creating this forum was to encourage and uplift Jesus Christ. And the "christianity forum" is only for those who believe in the bible 100%. We use to have arguments and bickering all the time on the Off Topic board that is why I wanted a peaceful place to uplift Christ. Delightful Flame you stated that you did not believe in the bible 100% and that is your right and is repected. The purpose of this particular forum is not to validate how much of a christian you are, that is between you and the Lord. If you or anyone else does not believe 100% in the bible this forum is not the place for you. Since you stated that you do not parts for the bible and that is offensive to many people in this forum. That type of stuff is actually allowed on the off topic board if you want to post it there. Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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The word "Christian" is a label. It means follower of Christ/Christ's teaching. How we BECOME a follower of Christ is what people debate over. We need the name b/c otherwise how would we distinquish ourselves (followers of Christ) from followers of another (like followers of Buddha)?

DelightfulFlame said:
ITA! My point exactly. What is a Christian anyhow? Ask a million different folks and get a thousand different answers depending on denomination. It's just a title. Man looks outwardly, but God looks at the heart.
 
beverly said:
Delightful Flame, per the forum rules - the whole purpose of me creating this forum was to encourage and uplift Jesus Christ. And the "christianity forum" is only for those who believe in the bible 100%. We use to have arguments and bickering all the time on the Off Topic board that is why I wanted a peaceful place to uplift Christ. Delightful Flame you stated that you did not believe in the bible 100% and that is your right and is repected. The purpose of this particular forum is not to validate how much of a christian you are, that is between you and the Lord. If you or anyone else does not believe 100% in the bible this forum is not the place for you. Since you stated that you do not parts for the bible and that is offensive to many people in this forum. That type of stuff is actually allowed on the off topic board if you want to post it there. Thank you for your cooperation.

When? I stated that I do not believe what everyone says about the bible.

But whatever. It's time for me to move on anyhow.

Matthew 10
14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
 
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I tried to say this before.
sprungonhairboards said:
But honestly, isnt that the main motivation for alot if not most people who come to Christ initially?

Knowing, loving and learning about the Savior comes later for alot of Christians. Alot of people are not driven to Christ based on love for him. At least not in the beginning. If there were no consequences for sin and the fear of eternal damnation I'm not sure if salvation would be as big a priority for alot of people. And if you don't believe anyway, why would spending eternity in heaven with Jesus be motivation to get saved?
 
beverly said:
Delightful Flame, per the forum rules - the whole purpose of me creating this forum was to encourage and uplift Jesus Christ. And the "christianity forum" is only for those who believe in the bible 100%. We use to have arguments and bickering all the time on the Off Topic board that is why I wanted a peaceful place to uplift Christ. Delightful Flame you stated that you did not believe in the bible 100% and that is your right and is repected. The purpose of this particular forum is not to validate how much of a christian you are, that is between you and the Lord. If you or anyone else does not believe 100% in the bible this forum is not the place for you. Since you stated that you do not parts for the bible and that is offensive to many people in this forum. That type of stuff is actually allowed on the off topic board if you want to post it there. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you. I knew me and JenJen wasn't the only ones who noticed this...
 
JuJuBoo said:
Natalied, are you saying there's no such thing as Hell??

Depends on how you define Hell. I believe the wicked will be judged with Satan and thrown into the lake of fire.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

I just don't believe that the fire is never ending. This is the second and final death. I don't believe they are burning forever. Death = dead.
 
Haven't posted in this forum and not much at all on the site. But I find this forum to be very inspirational and educational from the abstinence challenge to the daily reading. This includes the posts from all including Pooh Bear and Delight Fame and the "arguments" or rather discussions as this is the only way to gain true knowledge and understanding.


Just my opinion.
 
natalied said:
Depends on how you define Hell. I believe the wicked will be judged with Satan and thrown into the lake of fire.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

I just don't believe that the fire is never ending. This is the second and final death. I don't believe they are burning forever. Death = dead.

I see. If the fire is never ending, then how long is it? When is the fire burning? How do you interpret other scriptures that describe Hell or Hades?

I'm sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions because I haven't met a lot of Christian's that don't believe in Hell.

How do you interpret the following scripture?

Luke 16

*** 19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

*** 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

*** 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

*** 27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

*** 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

*** 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

*** 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "



FYI, I'm goin to bed! I'll finish tomorrow night. :)
 
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But I do believe in Hell. Just not an everlasting, forever burning hell.

The story of Lazarus is a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. Here are a few:

A. Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16).
B. People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65:17).
C. The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says.
D. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12).
E. The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16.

Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15.)

Here are some more verses that contradict and ever burning hell:

"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be." "The enemies of the Lord ... shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:10, 20.

"Rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20.

"They went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9.

The wages of sin is death not a forever torment in hell. An eternal burning hell with people forever in pain is contrary to the loving nature of God.

JuJuBoo said:
I see. If the fire is never ending, then how long is it? When is the fire burning? How do you interpret other scriptures that describe Hell or Hades?

I'm sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions because I haven't met a lot of Christian's that don't believe in Hell.

How do you interpret the following scripture?

Luke 16

*** 19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

*** 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

*** 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

*** 27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

*** 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

*** 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

*** 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "



FYI, I'm goin to bed! I'll finish tomorrow night. :)
 
JuJuBoo said:
I see. If the fire is never ending, then how long is it? When is the fire burning? How do you interpret other scriptures that describe Hell or Hades?

The bible doesn't tell us how long it is.

When? "So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man ... shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42.The fire burns after the judgement of Satan and the wicked at the second resurrection. "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9."The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

Here is another way of looking at it. If God is to make a new Heaven and a new Earth as stated in the following passage:

"The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1, 4.

Where would an eternal hell be if the the old earth is burned away and God provides a new heaven and a new earth?

Also, if as the verse states above that the former things are passed away and there is no more pain, how does that align with a forever burning hell?

The wages (or punishment) for sin is death, not everlasting life in hellfire. The wicked "perish," or receive "death." The righteous receive "everlasting life

I believe that It is God's plan to isolate sin and blot it out of existence for all time. Thus, the complete destruction of the wicked and Satan.

Good discussion. Goodnight to you too!
 
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Some believe you'll burn forever in Hell for eternity...

Some believe you'll just burn up and turn into ashes and that's it.

;)
 
Here's a scripture that weaveitup posted in another thread that may help:

weaveitup said:
along with that, i belive the theory of hell is wrong too. im not sure where it comes from. but if you read Malachi 4:1-3 it says that the sinners wont burn eternally, but rather that they will burn up and turn to ashes.

Mal 4:1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
 
sprungonhairboards said:
Let's just plan not to do either one :lol:

I'm with you. Its already hot enough here in the south. I know I couldnt stand that up close kinda personal type of heat. So lets just make plans now not to find out later. Go with God all the way. :grin:
 
sprungonhairboards said:
Let's just plan not to do either one :lol:
Yeah, you got that right! ;)

I'm not worried about Hell either because I know I'm going to live with my Lord in Heaven. :yay:
 
EssentialGrowth said:
Don't be too sure about that...
Why not? I believe in my heart that God raised His son Jesus Christ from the dead to live with me throughout the rest of my life. I am saved. Thank the Lord!
 
Poohbear said:
Why not? I believe in my heart that God raised His son Jesus Christ from the dead to live with me throughout the rest of my life. I am saved. Thank the Lord!


Oh great, here goes the usual rhetorical chant of Christians thinking they are "saved"...what does that mean anyway??!! :huh:


As far as my previous comment...open your bible and read Zephaniah 2:3...and yes, those words are applicable for this day and age.
 
EssentialGrowth said:
Oh great, here goes the usual rhetorical chant of Christians thinking they are "saved"...what does that mean anyway??!! :huh:


As far as my previous comment...open your bible and read Zephaniah 2:3...and yes, those words are applicable for this day and age.

Um hello, this IS the CHRISTIAN forum, go back a couple pages where the mission statement was again explained.
 
I don't believe in once saved always saved and therefore I believe salvation can be forfeited.

BUT why is there something wrong with claiming the gift of Eternal life that Jesus Christ has promised his believers? If you are in God's will and are surrendered rejoice and accept this wonderful gift!!! He says


John 12:26
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

1 Corinthians 1:18

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

John 3:16-18

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

2 Peter 1:10-11


10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

John 17:3
And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.


Plan on being in heaven. Make your election sure my sisters!!!!

EssentialGrowth said:
Oh great, here goes the usual rhetorical chant of Christians thinking they are "saved"...what does that mean anyway??!! :huh:


As far as my previous comment...open your bible and read Zephaniah 2:3...and yes, those words are applicable for this day and age.
 
EssentialGrowth said:
Oh great, here goes the usual rhetorical chant of Christians thinking they are "saved"...what does that mean anyway??!! :huh:


As far as my previous comment...open your bible and read Zephaniah 2:3...and yes, those words are applicable for this day and age.
I believe everything in the Bible applies to today. That verse is talking about God's judgement on those who sin and are not walking with God. We must pray for forgiveness of our sin, ask God to bring us into his heavenly Kingdom, and humbly obey him. And at the end time, when God comes to judge, you cannot say "But no one told me". That's why you must turn to Jesus for salvation. He is the way, the truth, and the life. You must be born again and resurrected in Christ in order to have salvation. When you have salvation, you are saved.

Enough said. May have to add one more person to my ignore list I guess...
 
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Poohbear said:
I believe everything in the Bible applies to today. That verse is talking about God's judgement on those who sin and are not walking with God. We must pray for forgiveness of our sin, ask God to bring us into his heavenly Kingdom, and humbly obey him. And at the end time, when God comes to judge, you cannot say "But no one told me". That's why you must turn to Jesus for salvation. He is the way, the truth, and the life. You must be born again and resurrected in Christ in order to have salvation. When you have salvation, you are saved.

Enough said. May have to add one more person to my ignore list I guess...

Do what you must...but Zephaniah 2:3 is not referring to sinners as you suggest, but rather is referring to the righteous.

Reads the scripture: "seek Jehovah [God], all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. PROBABLY YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger."

My point is, just because one claims to be putting faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not mean he will be "saved". Just because one attends chruch several times a week and pays tithes, does not guarantee everlasting life as is promised in the Bible. It is up to Jehovah God to make that decision; this is why I responded the way I did earlier. If you believe that is reason enough for me to be added to your ignore list, so be it.

Have a good one! :wave:
 
natalied said:
I don't believe in once saved always saved and therefore I believe salvation can be forfeited.


ITA with this. Read Matthew 24:45-51

I don't know if you will get from it what I got from it, but I know one thing.......

That lets me know enuff, that I don't need to be "doing my own thang" just because "God will forgive me" :sleep8:

Just remember, you know not the day nor the hour Christ will return, so stay in His will. ;)
 
EssentialGrowth said:
Do what you must...but Zephaniah 2:3 is not referring to sinners as you suggest, but rather is referring to the righteous.

Reads the scripture: "seek Jehovah [God], all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. PROBABLY YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger."

My point is, just because one claims to be putting faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not mean he will be "saved". Just because one attends chruch several times a week and pays tithes, does not guarantee everlasting life as is promised in the Bible. It is up to Jehovah God to make that decision; this is why I responded the way I did earlier. If you believe that is reason enough for me to be added to your ignore list, so be it.

Have a good one! :wave:


I kinds-sorta get this. I believe I have done MANY hell-bound things in my life, but do I believe that I am going to hell? NO

I will say that because of the fact that I have SEEN God Work in my life AFTER I had committed some BIG sins. Only HE knows my heart, and I promise you all, if there is ANYONE on this board who doubts their salvation, I am here to tell you that God is sooooo soveriegn that HE can do what HE feels best for your situation. Yes, His word is true, but when you find favor with the Lord, HE can do what he pleases with you and your situation.;) And get you in line with HIM so that you may be blessed. ;)


Now, I also believe that Everybody sittin in the pews on Sunday ain't gettin to heaven. :nono:

I seriously believe that there are people in the church who know the bible well enough to know that its NOT how they want to live. :down:
 
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