Stop Earning Love & Start Building Financial Trust In Men

BEAUTYU2U

BEAUTYU2U

Well-Known Member
S/O from ET thread:

SurferBabe said:
I feel some empathy towards this young lady. It is easy to adopt a healthy expectation of men always being the provider if you grew up in a financially stable household or if your parents didn't make you aware that they were struggling financially. But not every woman is so lucky. I don't know this woman's background, but from my own experience and observation of women who are quick to financially provide for men, many of them are still carrying emotional scars from childhood regarding money. In some struggling households, the parents make the child aware of their lack of financial resources early on, and they unintentionally put the child in a position where they feel like they are a burden for just existing. Imagine every material desire of yours being shot down and then your parents piling tons of negative thoughts on top of it.

The feeling of being a burden follows the child into adulthood. There is also guilt attached to it. Being independent means never having to revisit those feelings. Expecting a man (or anyone) to pay for anything brings back that emotional trauma-- you feel like a burden to him, even if you're sleeping with him. Because there was never a point in your life where money was spent freely on you without some negative emotion tied to it, you are quick to jump in and save the day. Many parents are ill-equipped to instill in their children (especially daughters) a healthy, positive mindset when it comes to money. The parents get so caught up in making ends meet that they neglect their daughters' need for emotional security. These women grow up with the belief that love is something they must earn. They have to prove their usefulness to the world. Therefore, they don't want to "burden" a man financially the same way they "burdened" their parents.

No dating strategy or advice will solve this. This has become a generational issue that requires therapy and healing. You have to release those emotional scars and change your attitude regarding money and a man's role as the provider. It can be done but it isn't easy.
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Thoughts? Feelings?
 
Fine 4s said:
Interesting connection between money management and relationships.
I never thought of it that way....
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Mhmm, it was a thread about a women asking a man if he wanted any food before she arrived at his house (and consequently, him not paying her back). Most posters didn't understand why she felt the need to provide for him.

Although I've never bought a man something (scratch that... I have once, twice if I include my brother) I have definitely felt those feelings. Being a burden, asking for "too much," etc. Hopefully, we can share our experiences, helpful articles, and good advice in this thread.
 
I'm totally a give and take person in a relationship. I've called to ask what they wanted for dinner and I've had the same done in return and never felt an imbalance at all. In fact, they did most of the cooking which is something I assumed I should do.
I'm also learning that I tend to give more than I receive in general (not in my last relationship though, he was quite giving).
Also, I don't like to ask a man for anything and it takes a lot for me to ask for help from anyone (outside of work mainly). I've always acted as the protector of others and never protected or guarded myself much. It's something that I have to re-learn.
Even in lending people money, I did it so freely and completely been taken advantage of so I don't lend money anymore.
 
BEAUTYU2U said:
Mhmm, it was a thread about a women asking a man if he wanted any food before she arrived at his house (and consequently, him not paying her back). Most posters didn't understand why she felt the need to provide for him.

Although I've never bought a man something (scratch that... I have once, twice if I include my brother) I have definitely felt those feelings. Being a burden, asking for "too much," etc. Hopefully, we can share our experiences, helpful articles, and good advice in this thread.
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Its really about the quality of man you chose. I can't imagine anyone I have dated not paying me for picking something up for them. If anything -picking something up is a scam in my favor. I always get repaid way more than I spent. I pick up something worth $12 and get a $100 bill.
 
Gin&Tonic said:
Its really about the quality of man you chose. I can't imagine anyone I have dated not paying me for picking something up for them. If anything -picking something up is a scam in my favor. I always get repaid way more than I spent. I pick up something worth $12 and get a $100 bill.
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It's before even choosing a man. This is more about internal work. You can't choose what you haven't seen. If relying on a man has always ended in disappointment, in your experience, then in adulthood you will stop depending/trusting them financially. It will feel safer to only rely on yourself. Or if there was always strings attached to financial support.
 
BEAUTYU2U said:
It's before even choosing a man. This is more about internal work. You can't choose what you haven't seen. If relying on a man has always ended in disappointment, in your experience, then in adulthood you will stop depending/trusting them financially. It will feel safer to only rely on yourself. Or if there was always strings attached to financial support.
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A woman who leads with fear and anxiety usually won't attract a quality man. She'll attract what's easy and accessible, which is usually a guy who will only provide so much before he expects her to start chipping in. I know because I was that woman. It is hard for a woman to feel confident in receiving when she's been brought up in an environment that constantly reinforces the lack of resources for her.
 
I have felt this way about family, not wanting to be a burden and easing their financial burdens but not about men.
And not about family anymore. If you’re giving, people will take with no regard to your own needs and will become indignant when you put yourself first. Most people are naturally selfish and if you don’t set boundaries they will take everything you have. IMO anyway.
 
SurferBabe said:
A woman who leads with fear and anxiety usually won't attract a quality man. She'll attract what's easy and accessible, which is usually a guy who will only provide so much before he expects her to start chipping in. I know because I was that woman. It is hard for a woman to feel confident in receiving when she's been brought up in an environment that constantly reinforces the lack of resources for her.
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:yep: Your OP really spoke to me and I saw myself in a lot of your statements.

As a child, my dad would shoot down things that I asked for or tell me to ask my mom. He paid child support and (seemingly) had a limit of what he spent on me beyond that.

It made me feel torn because I knew my mom was less financially stable than my dad. I used to write down everything I wanted for Christmas from the JCPenney catalog. Then I'd carefully reduce that list until it was under $100.

I'm not even sure if my mom knew I was doing that or not - can't recall. But I do remember always feeling that I need to prove myself worthy to my dad. It hasn't completely gone away.
 
Interesting...

So you all are saying that you've never picked up food or something and if so, you expect to be reimbursed? I wouldn't say that I feel burdensome, I just don't see the big deal. It's not like I'm picking up steak and lobster. Also, my mother stayed home and my stepdad took care of us. Most people would say I was spoiled as well. I don't consider those small instances supporting men.
 
Honey Bee said:
Hmmm. I don't know if I agree with the theory. The effects are too diffuse. If true, then why are middle class girls equally confused?
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Yeah I find that the people who I know personally who have this guilt tend to have grown up very stable middle class. I need to marinate on it a bit more because they seemed to lack something but not quite sure how to articulate it.
 
RoundEyedGirl504 said:
Yeah I find that the people who I know personally who have this guilt tend to have grown up very stable middle class. I need to marinate on it a bit more because they seemed to lack something but not quite sure how to articulate it.
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Exactly. The bourgeousie always have weird attitudes about money, though. The poor and the very rich usually grasp the realities very well. :lol:
 
Y'all might be on to something. I've came in and out of this thread, thinking about an answer. I reversed it and thought about my friends who married EXTREMELY well, and led into their relationships (at a fairly early age - early twenties) depending on a man for financial security.

2 immediately came to mind - 1) one who grew up upper class, both parents in the household and 2) the other, had a struggling single-mom who barely made ends meet.

One's DH is a CFO has a MBA, CFP, CPA, and 2 law degrees (not sure what the other does). Anyway, I will say this. The rich girl seems to genuinely love her DH and will have as many babies as he so desires.
The poor girl has been married to her DH since '02 (at 20 yrs old), she can't stand him but isn't going anywhere b/c she is financially secure and not interested in working.


Honey Bee said:
Hmmm. I don't know if I agree with the theory. The effects are too diffuse. If true, then why are middle class girls equally confused?
Click to expand...
RoundEyedGirl504 said:
Yeah I find that the people who I know personally who have this guilt tend to have grown up very stable middle class. I need to marinate on it a bit more because they seemed to lack something but not quite sure how to articulate it.
Click to expand...
 
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I would agree if I didn't know one to many "rich" women who grew up in affluent households yet financially "help" men. I remember one, who had the gall to request that she worked and send him to law school. Her parents put a stop to that quickly, because after all, they were the ones who were funding their lifestyle. They soon got divorced and she had since remarried someone who came from her class structure. But still though... And that is one circumstance. I know of others. The "independent women who got their own" that I know of, more so take care of themselves than they take care of their men, or inadvertently be taking care of their men e.g. paying the mortgage, going dutch etc.
 
I think a lot of it really is based on a woman's idea of what the man's role is. I know women who grew up poor in the hood but will tell you in a minute, no romance without finance. Women who grew up with decent money who are hemming and hawing and reaching in their pocketbook on the first date.

I think the dynamics are based on what women have learned is expected of a woman in a relationship. My aunt is a good example, she is very big on being "fair" to the man and not expecting them to pay for everything, etc. She is married (25+ years) her kids grew up solidly middle class, and her daughter has that attitude of I need to give this man something if I expect him to take me out on a date. And I think that is the dynamic between my aunt and uncle, a tit for tat. I grew up with a single mom and I never reach for my wallet on a date and never will. That's not how my mom or grandmother operated with husbands or men period. But I never saw any woman doing that and didn't have men in my life who operated like that so it's a weird concept to me. I think that's the difference.
 
Excellent point OP. Really deep. Without getting to the root and healing, we are just applying quick fixes and bandaids to the problem. If subconsciously you are a wounded little girl who feels like a burden you will attract and be attracted to a man who is subconsciously a little boy who wants to be and demands to be catered to and taken care of. Perfect match.
 
RoundEyedGirl504 said:
I think a lot of it really is based on a woman's idea of what the man's role is. I know women who grew up poor in the hood but will tell you in a minute, no romance without finance. Women who grew up with decent money who are hemming and hawing and reaching in their pocketbook on the first date.

I think the dynamics are based on what women have learned is expected of a woman in a relationship. My aunt is a good example, she is very big on being "fair" to the man and not expecting them to pay for everything, etc. She is married (25+ years) her kids grew up solidly middle class, and her daughter has that attitude of I need to give this man something if I expect him to take me out on a date. And I think that is the dynamic between my aunt and uncle, a tit for tat. I grew up with a single mom and I never reach for my wallet on a date and never will. That's not how my mom or grandmother operated with husbands or men period. But I never saw any woman doing that and didn't have men in my life who operated like that so it's a weird concept to me. I think that's the difference.
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I think you're closest. It's about expectations. If you don't expect nothing, that's just what you'll get.
 
Honey Bee said:
Hmmm. I don't know if I agree with the theory. The effects are too diffuse. If true, then why are middle class girls equally confused?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that cut and dry. It's a mentality. Probably more prevalent in the poor but it doesn't exclide middle class families. Were they middle class because their mothers' careers were just as important (financially) as their fathers'? Did they see their dad treat their mom with gifts? Was dad a cheapskate?
 
BEAUTYU2U said:
I don't think it's that cut and dry. It's a mentality. Probably more prevalent in the poor but it doesn't exclide middle class families. Were they middle class because their mothers' careers were just as important (financially) as their fathers'? Did they see their dad treat their mom with gifts? Was dad a cheapskate?
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:yep:. Neglect, abuse, covert put downs, etc. can happen in any family, whether wealthy, poor, or somewhere in the middle. It’s about the mentality of the family and the environment. Wealthy fathers can be very controlling, emotionally absent etc. A poor man can be loving and emotionally present, protective, etc. I always hear about people who grew up poor but felt rich. All about mentality. And also the culture/community. The mom and dad can teach the girl that she is worthy but the world can say otherwise again and again.
 
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This is very interesting. I'll be paying close attention to this thread.

I have always been the giver and protector in my personal relationships. I never want to ask for anything and I have a reputation of being very independent and take care of every thing attitude. EXCEPT in my romantic relationships. I've never ever ever felt like I should give anything to a man. And I would say this is in part to seeing my parents' relationship. My mother worked because she wanted to and used her money however she wanted while my father paid all the bills and took care of all of us. When she didn't want to work anymore she didn't. To me it was the way things were. A man takes care of his woman.

However, my sister grew up seeing the same relationship but maybe interpreted it differently? It's almost as if she's conflicted. She offers things to her bf but then will ask me how often she should do it or if she should do it at all. Or if it should be a equal give and take? It's weird how we had the same relationship as a guide but applied it differently.
 
hopeful said:
Excellent point OP. Really deep. Without getting to the root and healing, we are just applying quick fixes and bandaids to the problem. If subconsciously you are a wounded little girl who feels like a burden you will attract and be attracted to a man who is subconsciously a little boy who wants to be and demands to be catered to and taken care of. Perfect match.
Click to expand...

Just wow!
 
BEAUTYU2U said:
Mhmm, it was a thread about a women asking a man if he wanted any food before she arrived at his house (and consequently, him not paying her back). Most posters didn't understand why she felt the need to provide for him.

Although I've never bought a man something (scratch that... I have once, twice if I include my brother) I have definitely felt those feelings. Being a burden, asking for "too much," etc. Hopefully, we can share our experiences, helpful articles, and good advice in this thread.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s why she did it. It was just straight up earning someone’s love, or showing what all they have to offer. A lot of women do that. This whole everybody bringing something to the table is so confusing. Women offer sex, money, shelter, food, stability, etc.. they don’t see another type of value in themselves that can and should be offered. And you have men (with and without fathers) that are comfortable with women doing all of things for them. The roles have been switched. Men feel like they are the prize and you have desperate women falling for it.
 
RoundEyedGirl504 said:
I think a lot of it really is based on a woman's idea of what the man's role is. I know women who grew up poor in the hood but will tell you in a minute, no romance without finance. Women who grew up with decent money who are hemming and hawing and reaching in their pocketbook on the first date.

I think the dynamics are based on what women have learned is expected of a woman in a relationship. My aunt is a good example, she is very big on being "fair" to the man and not expecting them to pay for everything, etc. She is married (25+ years) her kids grew up solidly middle class, and her daughter has that attitude of I need to give this man something if I expect him to take me out on a date. And I think that is the dynamic between my aunt and uncle, a tit for tat. I grew up with a single mom and I never reach for my wallet on a date and never will. That's not how my mom or grandmother operated with husbands or men period. But I never saw any woman doing that and didn't have men in my life who operated like that so it's a weird concept to me. I think that's the difference.
Click to expand...
I was raised with that type of fairness mentality and I was raised by both parents. My mother was raised by her father. My grandparents were divorced and my grandfather wanted full custody of the children.
 
shortdub78 said:
I don’t think that’s why she did it. It was just straight up earning someone’s love, or showing what all they have to offer. A lot of women do that. This whole everybody bringing something to the table is so confusing. Women offer sex, money, shelter, food, stability, etc.. they don’t see another type of value in themselves that can and should be offered. And you have men (with and without fathers) that are comfortable with women doing all of things for them. The roles have been switched. Men feel like they are the prize and you have desperate women falling for it.
Click to expand...

Earning his love by providing food, service, money, use of her car, $20 from her Link card, washing his laundry, babysitting his children, etc.

It's all the same.
 
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