Stop Earning Love & Start Building Financial Trust In Men

This is thread jam-packed with so much thought-provoking items, I don't know where to begin. I'm one of those "independent" women that you speak of, and I find it difficult to let men do things for me, even paying for dates, even though I know that they should. I feel uncomfortable receiving, as I've been blessed with a good job and make fairly good money. It's taking a good deal of doing feeling entitled, and these men out here will test you to see whether you're comfortable going Dutch.

I think that the wife having to work probably isn't as important of a factor as how their dynamics are in the family. If the wife is staying home but it's made clear she's not as valuable a contributor as the husband you end up in the same place. Like that scene from the Joy Luck Club when the fool told his wife she owed $X for the ice cream even though they clearly made enough money that it wasn't an issue.

Dynamics definitely played apart in this. My mother worked in the family business, and she still was treated like an employee, rather than the manager, with my dad being the owner. Whenever my sister or I wanted something that our father didn't want to spend on, the response was, "you don't need that" regardless of whether it would be beneficial to us or if (and he generally always) had the money.

This is a great thread, as I've never thought as to the root cause of this behavior.
 
And women will reinforce "the fairness doctrine" on behalf of men through shaming other women who they feel need to be humbled. So a lot of these women just cut out the middle man and go from zero to trying to prove that they are "good girls" who know their place.

I've always done my best to avoid being humble and it took me years to understand there's very little reward for being "good" especially when it comes to dealing with dudes. I know better than to hold my breath waiting on men to badger each other into being fair to women.

If this ain’t a word...
 
When you do, try not to punish yourself for finding it sooner. Thats my current struggle. It took me a LONG time to learn how to value myself but in hindsight, not really. I was raised by a narc and married to a person with Borderline Personality Disorder with narc tendencies.There were a decades of mistreatment that I had to slough off. They neither loved nor valued me, so in turn, I didn't value myself. How could I?


This all day. When my ex and I reunited, he slowly realized that I was no longer a broken winged dove, but rather an eagle. I'm reminded of a time when he asked me to stop and pick up food for his family who was visiting. I spent $25 and he gave me a $20. I just looked at him and asked for the rest of my money. He was offended.

By then, I had grown enough to realize that this was a sign of disrespect.

In my teen years, I watched my mom hold it down after my dad got laid off. She was the breadwinner and emasculated him. He never took the initiative to be a provider and it made my siblings and I feel that was a good option. We have all struggled relationally and one of my sisters stays bringing home hobosexuals.

I am proud to say that I now have a very healthy sense of entitlement.

I'm hoping I get to this point. Looking back in this thread I'm reminded about some stuff I have done. Like my ex-boyfriend gave me $20 to get him some underclothes for college. First, I don't even have the title of girlfriend...why am I doing this for you? Second of all, $20 doesn't go that far. I spent $40 probably but I said...oh it's only $20 over. I lied to him and told him I spent $30 and didn't even ask for my $10. What a keeper I am. Ninja dogged my tail OUT in the end. And I still wasn't a girlfriend. How did I let it get that far? I really really really liked him. I thihhht through time I could how he felt about me.

I'm just like you. My mom is a narcissist. She doesn't believe in EVER saying I'm sorry. She invades my personal space. She never let me have any privacy. My dad is a straight up macho man (slick Narc too bht I don't see how two true narcs can marry) and to my today standards not rightfully so. Your money ain't long enough bruh.
Man....listening to some of ya'll talk makes me think that I really need to find some self worth.
Me too sis. Me too. :(
 
I think some people like me don't get the "big deal". Buying food is not a big deal but I saw my niece do this the other day for a guy. I felt like it was a test. He will continue to ask her for "little things" to continue on to ask her for "big things". I want it to stop now but she's not the type to listen sooo...live your life girl.

I'ma talk about my own stupidity here on how this escalates

1. I have helped boost the credit of ninjas that were not my husband. I wanted to subconsciously prove that I was "worthy" of his time as compared to the basic bottom chick he was going with before. I didn't think of it like that though. I'm like...It takes me no time to improve his credit. I'm smart so it takes me maybe 30 minutes to research, another 30 minutes to type, then print and send off when I'm sending my mail. No big deal right? WRONG PRISS WRONG. Those resources and little time could be used to do something for ME not a dude that's auditioning for the part.

2. My dad. He's a booty hole to me. He treats me bad. I want to prove that I'm a "good girl". He will literally call me a failure to my face and I will come back over a week later and say hey Dad how are you doing? Do you need me to get you anything? And have a cordial conversation like nothing bad ever happened. It didn't take much to just have the common courtesy to say how are you and act nice...I mean I was there to see my mother anyway...but I was doing too much for a man that won't extend that same courtesy to me.

3. Ninja number 2- If was doing homework. I would give him a copy of it. It takes no extra time or extra effort, right? It's nothing. And I'm helping someone else. BUT Is he going out of the way to help you? No. He's not worth it.

I say all this to say I have seen girls like me make excuses for doing small things that "It's nothing" to do. It leaves us heartbroken and distraught in the end when ole dude STILL does not pick us. These articles are definitely needed especially amongst the college crowd.

I see what you’re saying actually!
 
What steps did you take? I'm on a different level after being burned often for being fair. These men move on with no guilt and are now married or with new women.
I never read the book "Why men love b****es" but when that book came out I was in a place in my life where multiple members of my family had repeatedly taken advantage of me financially, I was in a job where my boss was exploiting me and I had a run of dealing with dudes who were sometimey. I heard the title of that book and it occurred to me that all the b****es I knew didn't have the kinds of problems that I did. I learned how to say "No." as a complete sentence and life changed for the better. It didn't happen overnight and there was a whole lot of resistance on the other side but eventually, I became very comfortable with putting me and my needs ahead of everybody else. Now mind you, I have had some back sliding moments but for the most part it's worked out well.
 
@Crackers Phinn in here preaching again. Don’t tell her but in my mind she’s my e-bae:oops::2inlove:.
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Good point. It isn't just about how much money is in the household, but how daughters are made to feel about their parents' financial investment in them. There are many middle and upper class households where children are still made to feel like a financial burden. There are also poor households where the parents do a good job of not projecting onto their children a negative mindset about money. They don't make their children aware of the lack of money, and they still make an effort to invest in their children's happiness. In other words, the daughters do not grow up attaching guilt to the idea of someone investing in them financially. It is welcomed warmly and is expected.
.

Yep, this was my experience. We were considered middle class but the mentality was one of deficit. Although they never told my brother and I were were burdens, we felt we were based on the way money (and other resources) were discussed. And considering that Black middle class families are generally in close-to-precarious financial positions, it makes sense to me. If one of my parents lost a job, we'd probably last one month before all resources were strapped. My mom was straight out of poverty, my dad was 0.5 generation removed. It takes a lot more than increase in income to change a pervasive mentality.

Interesting comments @SurferBabe Good food for thought.
 
Good point. It isn't just about how much money is in the household, but how daughters are made to feel about their parents' financial investment in them. There are many middle and upper class households where children are still made to feel like a financial burden. There are also poor households where the parents do a good job of not projecting onto their children a negative mindset about money. They don't make their children aware of the lack of money, and they still make an effort to invest in their children's happiness. In other words, the daughters do not grow up attaching guilt to the idea of someone investing in them financially. It is welcomed warmly and is expected.

It isn't just about money, that is just one example-- but resources and effort as a whole. The conditioning becomes obvious when you ask such a woman why she provides for men financially, or drives 2 hours for a house date, etc... It comes back to her need to be fair, not wanting to be a burden, feeling guilty for making someone else go the extra mile to spend time with her, the list goes on. The conditioning starts young when she is told that she should be grateful for just having a roof over her head, and that anything for her enjoyment, no matter how small it is, is wasteful.

But this is only one reason for why some women are eager to provide for men. There is definitely fear attached to it. They weren't raised to feel comfortable receiving. They believe they should be fair, easy, and not burdensome. It begins somewhere.

These are excellent points. I grew up middle class and clearly remember the day my father told me that I was a burden. I also remember asking my mother if I was the reason for their financial hardship when they were going through a difficult time. She told me yes and almost seemed to get a little bit of satisfaction in doing so. It was years before I realized and accepted the fact that their financial issues were not my fault. Poor money management and living beyond their means was the culprit.

This thread opened up my eyes to why I feel the way I do about money and why I have a hard accepting gifts or help. When anyone asks me what I want for my birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day or my anniversary I tell them nothing. And it isn't just about money. The feeling carries over to just about every aspect of my life. As a sahm, I rarely ask for help because I feel like I should do it myself. After all, it is my job. I hate the thought of inconveniencing someone despite the fact that I see people daily who ask for what they want with little regard for how difficult it may be for the other person to meet their request. I desperately need to get out of this mindset of not asking for what I want.
 
If I could go back in time, I'd tell Little Beauty that being "good" and "nice" is a farce. :lol:
In the other thread the chick who offered the dude she was "talking to" food was being nice. The reward for being nice was dude acting brand new, the whole internet calling her a fool and dudes coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of her (remember $lim tryna get his freebies by saying his mama don't be hungry like that). That's what :censored: nice gets you.

When she uses the information that she learned from this experience, the peanut gallery go yell from the side lines "don't hold the next dude responsible for what the last one did". :rolleyes:
 
Good point. It isn't just about how much money is in the household, but how daughters are made to feel about their parents' financial investment in them. There are many middle and upper class households where children are still made to feel like a financial burden. There are also poor households where the parents do a good job of not projecting onto their children a negative mindset about money. They don't make their children aware of the lack of money, and they still make an effort to invest in their children's happiness. In other words, the daughters do not grow up attaching guilt to the idea of someone investing in them financially. It is welcomed warmly and is expected.

It isn't just about money, that is just one example-- but resources and effort as a whole. The conditioning becomes obvious when you ask such a woman why she provides for men financially, or drives 2 hours for a house date, etc... It comes back to her need to be fair, not wanting to be a burden, feeling guilty for making someone else go the extra mile to spend time with her, the list goes on. The conditioning starts young when she is told that she should be grateful for just having a roof over her head, and that anything for her enjoyment, no matter how small it is, is wasteful.

But this is only one reason for why some women are eager to provide for men. There is definitely fear attached to it. They weren't raised to feel comfortable receiving. They believe they should be fair, easy, and not burdensome. It begins somewhere.

Another one agreeing with this. I'd say we were middle class, with money issues. And I was aware of them. Utilities would sometimes get turned off, etc. But I was never made to feel like it was my fault at all. And I never felt that way. I was always made to feel/it was told to me that it was my dad's fault, who I knew was the breadwinner. And I believed that and still do.

I was in private school, had private dance and piano lessons and I knew, from like age 10, how much these things cost (through overhearing/ seeing statements laying around). I got every material thing I'd ask for. I'd take the jcp, fao, American girl catalogs, circle everything I wanted and happily unabashedly present it to my parents for my birthday and Christmas and get everything I wanted and then some. It didn't matter to me that the cable was off for a few days last week (my knowledge of financial issues). I knew that it wasn't my fault and my parents loved spending unnecessary money on me (my knowledge of how much my school and activities were).

And I was/am always grateful of when men buy me things, but I'm not even grateful to the point of...liking something I don't want? Like if he buys me something and I don't like it, I have no problems saying something like thanks but don't buy this anymore cuz I don't like it. Same when I was little. First time I went to a dance summer intensive: i knew how much it was through my own research (very expensive) and i knew they had trouble paying for it. I never felt bad about having them pick me up half way through cuz I was ready to go home. My parents didn't buy me things I didn't want... And then expect me to like it. Like clothes and books for Christmas :look:

I was always made to feel like: even with our money issues, we are so thrilled to put you(me) first.
 
What steps did you take? I'm on a different level after being burned often for being fair. These men move on with no guilt and are now married or with new women.

I can relate to the bold all too well :nono:. Valentine's Day rolled around this year and yet again-- nice, accommodating, fair, eager-to-please me sat on my couch alone with a bottle of wine, takeout, and a broken heart complaining about how men are dogs and relationships are overrated. Meanwhile, my FB snooping revealed that the dudes I was so available to were out wining and dining the women who never answered their calls. That was it for me. :lol:
 
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I can relate to the bold all too well :nono:. Valentine's Day rolled around this year and yet again-- nice, accommodating, fair, eager-to-please me sat on my couch alone with a bottle of wine, takeout, and a broken heart complaining about how men are dogs and relationships are overrated. Meanwhile, my FB snooping revealed that the dudes I was so available to were out wining and dining the women who never answered their calls. That was it for me. :lol:

Live and learn! Good you can laugh now.
 
I can relate to the bold all too well :nono:. Valentine's Day rolled around this year and yet again-- nice, accommodating, fair, eager-to-please me sat on my couch alone with a bottle of wine, takeout, and a broken heart complaining about how men are dogs and relationships are overrated. Meanwhile, my FB snooping revealed that the dudes I was so available to were out wining and dining the women who never answered their calls. That was it for me. :lol:

:yep: You'll turn into DWade's bitter ex while this fool getting his booty ate by a chick with perfect skin. :lol:

But real talk, what were your steps to get back on track? Was Valentine's Day your wake up call or was it something else?
 
I never read the book "Why men love b****es" but when that book came out I was in a place in my life where multiple members of my family had repeatedly taken advantage of me financially, I was in a job where my boss was exploiting me and I had a run of dealing with dudes who were sometimey. I heard the title of that book and it occurred to me that all the b****es I knew didn't have the kinds of problems that I did. I learned how to say "No." as a complete sentence and life changed for the better. It didn't happen overnight and there was a whole lot of resistance on the other side but eventually, I became very comfortable with putting me and my needs ahead of everybody else. Now mind you, I have had some back sliding moments but for the most part it's worked out well.

I would have never suspected this about you. In my head, you've been a boss from the womb. This gives me even more hope and adds more fuel to my fire. Thanks for sharing.
 
Good thread. I grew up Upper Middle Class and for some reason guys who grew up in the village and made it out due to being super smart and are 10 times more successful than me, gravitate towards me. The step up to me with confidence. It always starts out really well and after we start talking about our childhoods, everything falls apart. Their insecurities kick in and its like they are competing with my Dad and not dating me as an individual. My Dad was a broke village boy who studied his way to success. I'm thinking that's why I end up attracting these types.

I find myself shrinking and avoiding being honest about so many things because once the truth comes out, the subtle digs and put downs kick in. It's easy to not realize when you are being lightweight insulted in the form of a hidden joke. At the same time I get accused of being closed off and not open because I do not willingly share things about myself. I then find myself overcompensating by being overly nice to make sure I don't come off as a snob. I don't ask for stuff to not appear like a gold digger or entitled princess.

Eventually a few months in, I end up receiving poor treatment and crumbs, having to walk away in tears feeling like crap. These guys act surprised when I leave and don't come back. I've never gone back. Once I'm done, I'm done. It's like I'm supposed to sit there and accept the foolishness forever. Guys know when they are not treating you well. What's the deal with all this fake surprise?

I don't get it because these guys are doing so much better than me and I have been out of my father's house for over 20 yrs. He's now retired and he moved back to the village with my Mum. These guys have better jobs making 6 figures, own larger homes and drive better rides than me. I still live in a basic apt, I drive a Honda and work a regular degular job that doesn't turn heads. What gives???? The only silver lining in all of this is that I don't spend any of my money on them.
 
This is a serious question...

What if you really like someone but they’re not up to par financially? Do you suggest just moving on? Not someone who’s a bum, but that’s working towards something?

I just feel like I’m 27, I don’t want to keep dating “works in progress”. I’m starting to try and date more seriously and not just for kicks and giggles.

It just seems like all the guys I meet with money try and buy me. Never have I met a man who’s well off that hasn’t led with his material possessions, or success (except this really fat guy, I liked him...but he was too big lol). AND, I feel like with certain men there’s a threshold of how long they’ll buy you things, take you out, etc. and then they’ll start expecting things. How do you combat this?
 
This is a serious question...

What if you really like someone but they’re not up to par financially? Do you suggest just moving on? Not someone who’s a bum, but that’s working towards something?

I just feel like I’m 27, I don’t want to keep dating “works in progress”. I’m starting to try and date more seriously and not just for kicks and giggles.

It just seems like all the guys I meet with money try and buy me. Never have I met a man who’s well off that hasn’t led with his material possessions, or success (except this really fat guy, I liked him...but he was too big lol). AND, I feel like with certain men there’s a threshold of how long they’ll buy you things, take you out, etc. and then they’ll start expecting things. How do you combat this?

:lachen: @ the bolded

Good question! I'm interested in hearing answers, too.
 
:yep: You'll turn into DWade's bitter ex while this fool getting his booty ate by a chick with perfect skin. :lol:

But real talk, what were your steps to get back on track? Was Valentine's Day your wake up call or was it something else?

That was the beginning. Being played by a guy I was naive enough to think was my friend served as a tough but necessary learning experience. Therapy and spirituality really helped me heal. I didn't realize that my issues originated from fear and anxiety. I had the best childhood my parents could provide, but they were very negative people. I grew up believing that life would always be hard and I needed to struggle to earn everything I desired. I was afraid that having expectations would run this man away, and yet, being kind and accommodating didn't make him stay :lol:. I'm not sure why it took so long for it to click but it finally did. On the spiritual side, I practiced being focused on the present, releasing attachments, and embracing uncertainty. I knocked all of those dudes off the pedestal. There is nothing special and rare about any man out here that can't be found with someone better. It's an illusion of an anxious, unsettled mind. Anxiety made me worry about being liked. I needed to prove myself to men. I felt like I had to do everything in my power to control the outcome. When I got out of my head and actually took the time to observe the world around me, I saw that the less a woman did, the more she received.

It is a major blow to the ego to watch a man you used to bend over backwards for turn right around and give the world to a woman who has done nothing but believe in her own hype and allow herself to receive. I was caught in the middle of a situation and it was humbling. Men feel no guilt for getting everything they want out of life while investing as little as necessary. Men are fickle, and they dgaf about fairness when they decide to dump you and focus their efforts on a new target. It was a lesson learned the hard way and I'll never repeat that foolishness again.
 
This is a serious question...

What if you really like someone but they’re not up to par financially? Do you suggest just moving on? Not someone who’s a bum, but that’s working towards something?

I just feel like I’m 27, I don’t want to keep dating “works in progress”. I’m starting to try and date more seriously and not just for kicks and giggles.

It just seems like all the guys I meet with money try and buy me. Never have I met a man who’s well off that hasn’t led with his material possessions, or success (except this really fat guy, I liked him...but he was too big lol). AND, I feel like with certain men there’s a threshold of how long they’ll buy you things, take you out, etc. and then they’ll start expecting things. How do you combat this?

You ask about them not being up to par financially but then hate when they lead with their financial success. Just let them buy you. I don’t understand the problem. That’s why they become successful, so they can prove themselves as men and provide for a family.

This is still a patriarchy and will be for some time. They still need to provide resources.

Just hang out with them until they start expecting stuff. Then ghost. Or flip it and get mad at them for trying to buy you. Like “do I look like a prostitute?”

And tell the works in progress to come back when they get it together. No hard feelings but it’s too risky for me to be involved with someone who doesn’t have it together. Or you want a family one day. Whatever. Men will understand, trust.
 
This is a serious question...

What if you really like someone but they’re not up to par financially? Do you suggest just moving on? Not someone who’s a bum, but that’s working towards something?

I just feel like I’m 27, I don’t want to keep dating “works in progress”. I’m starting to try and date more seriously and not just for kicks and giggles.

It just seems like all the guys I meet with money try and buy me. Never have I met a man who’s well off that hasn’t led with his material possessions, or success (except this really fat guy, I liked him...but he was too big lol). AND, I feel like with certain men there’s a threshold of how long they’ll buy you things, take you out, etc. and then they’ll start expecting things. How do you combat this?
I'm not picking on you I'm just commenting on how I'm reading this.

On one hand you're tired of works in progress but on the other hand you don't like how dudes who are finished projects financially act. The legit work in progress is eventually going to be a finished project. You need to get right with the concept of what a finished project is supposed to do.

The whole point of a dude accumulating money is to live well. They are supposed to lead with material things to ease your mind that if you get on Team Them they got the resources to hold you down. If he gets to a point where he stops treating you the way you feel that you should cut him loose so you can move on to the next one.

Yes. You should like the dude. Yes you should make sure that you are on the same page regarding morals values and life plans. It is self destructive to force a relationship with somebody you can't stand.
 
That was the beginning. Being played by a guy I was naive enough to think was my friend served as a tough but necessary learning experience. Therapy and spirituality really helped me heal. I didn't realize that my issues originated from fear and anxiety. I had the best childhood my parents could provide, but they were very negative people. I grew up believing that life would always be hard and I needed to struggle to earn everything I desired. I was afraid that having expectations would run this man away, and yet, being kind and accommodating didn't make him stay :lol:. I'm not sure why it took so long for it to click but it finally did. On the spiritual side, I practiced being focused on the present, releasing attachments, and embracing uncertainty. I knocked all of those dudes off the pedestal. There is nothing special and rare about any man out here that can't be found with someone better. It's an illusion of an anxious, unsettled mind. Anxiety made me worry about being liked. I needed to prove myself to men. I felt like I had to do everything in my power to control the outcome. When I got out of my head and actually took the time to observe the world around me, I saw that the less a woman did, the more she received.

It is a major blow to the ego to watch a man you used to bend over backwards for turn right around and give the world to a woman who has done nothing but believe in her own hype and allow herself to receive. I was caught in the middle of a situation and it was humbling. Men feel no guilt for getting everything they want out of life while investing as little as necessary. Men are fickle, and they dgaf about fairness when they decide to dump you and focus their efforts on a new target. It was a lesson learned the hard way and I'll never repeat that foolishness again.

The bolded is my husband. Not in a negative way, but he is someone who rarely hesitates to ask for the sun, moon and stars when it comes to business. He is in sales and says that people will ask him for the impossible with a straight face. He decided to carry that over into other areas of his life. He has, what I call, a healthy sense of entitlement.

ETA: This also makes me think of my husband's aunt. She always says ask for what you want. She cares absolutely nothing about inconveniencing others. She asks for what she wants and a majority of the time she receives it simply because she asked. And she is charming.
 
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That was the beginning. Being played by a guy I was naive enough to think was my friend served as a tough but necessary learning experience. Therapy and spirituality really helped me heal. I didn't realize that my issues originated from fear and anxiety. I had the best childhood my parents could provide, but they were very negative people. I grew up believing that life would always be hard and I needed to struggle to earn everything I desired. I was afraid that having expectations would run this man away, and yet, being kind and accommodating didn't make him stay :lol:. I'm not sure why it took so long for it to click but it finally did. On the spiritual side, I practiced being focused on the present, releasing attachments, and embracing uncertainty. I knocked all of those dudes off the pedestal. There is nothing special and rare about any man out here that can't be found with someone better. It's an illusion of an anxious, unsettled mind. Anxiety made me worry about being liked. I needed to prove myself to men. I felt like I had to do everything in my power to control the outcome. When I got out of my head and actually took the time to observe the world around me, I saw that the less a woman did, the more she received.

It is a major blow to the ego to watch a man you used to bend over backwards for turn right around and give the world to a woman who has done nothing but believe in her own hype and allow herself to receive. I was caught in the middle of a situation and it was humbling. Men feel no guilt for getting everything they want out of life while investing as little as necessary. Men are fickle, and they dgaf about fairness when they decide to dump you and focus their efforts on a new target. It was a lesson learned the hard way and I'll never repeat that foolishness again.

SN: I think I was meant to read this because anxiety and fear have me in a bind. And not just relationships either. I just keep getting hit with things and I'm trying not to waiver while keeping all these balls in the air (beauty, career, relationships, finances, faith) and it's not working.
 
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