Stop Earning Love & Start Building Financial Trust In Men

[Evolving78]

Earning his love by providing food, service, money, use of her car, $20 from her Link card, washing his laundry, babysitting his children, etc.

It's all the same.

I agree. It’s pretty much providing him with a stable environment.

 

[LdyKamz]

I was raised with that type of fairness mentality and I was raised by both parents. My mother was raised by her father. My grandparents were divorced and my grandfather wanted full custody of the children.

See this is my sister's issue. I feel like she may believe the relationship was "unfair" between my parents. I get the impression she believes my mother took advantage of dad. So she struggles between trying to make her relationship fair (opposite of my parents marriage in her eyes) and realizing she is going against the grain of a successful relationship that actually worked for 20+ years.

I don't know what it is though because every since I was younger, when it came to men...I didn't want a broke man/boy. I never knew the idea of a guy asking me for anything. And it never crossed my mind that I shouldn't ask him for whatever I wanted if he expected me to grace him with my presence. Ex. In highschool I would see little stupid things I liked (a keychain, cute stationary, comics) and be like "I like this. I'm going to show it to {insert name of whatever boy was vying for my attention at the time even though I couldn't have boyfriends lol} so he can get it for me". While on the other hand my sister would say things like "that's not right. you're using him" and I would be so confused. Even more confusing is my sister can ask my father for anything in the world and he gives it to her. So why hasn't she applied that to her relationships? Logically, she should be conditioned to believe she could get whatever she wants from a man with a smile but she doesn't. Any thoughts on this ladies?

 

[Evolving78]

See this is my sister's issue. I feel like she may believe the relationship was "unfair" between my parents. I get the impression she believes my mother took advantage of dad. So she struggles between trying to make her relationship fair (opposite of my parents marriage in her eyes) and realizing she is going against the grain of a successful relationship that actually worked for 20+ years.

I don't know what it is though because every since I was younger, when it came to men...I didn't want a broke man/boy. I never knew the idea of a guy asking me for anything. And it never crossed my mind that I shouldn't ask him for whatever I wanted if he expected me to grace him with my presence. Ex. In highschool I would see little stupid things I liked (a keychain, cute stationary, comics) and be like "I like this. I'm going to show it to {insert name of whatever boy was vying for my attention at the time even though I couldn't have boyfriends lol} so he can get it for me". While on the other hand my sister would say things like "that's not right. you're using him" and I would be so confused. Even more confusing is my sister can ask my father for anything in the world and he gives it to her. So why hasn't she applied that to her relationships? Logically, she should be conditioned to believe she could get whatever she wants from a man with a smile but she doesn't. Any thoughts on this ladies?

My mother is miss goodie goodie, Glenda the good witch and she loves helping people and finding the goodness in everything.. my dad is total opposite. I wish I had more of my father in me! Lol I dealt with me that I felt sorry for, and that made me feel guilty for growing up the way I did. So I compensated for that. Never again. My mother believes women should work, contribute, and have their own. I believe in the man being the head breadwinner, especially if children are involved. I don’t believe in greedy women that will run a household down to ruins.

 

[ladysaraii]

No, the OP is making a class-based argument. We're all saying the opposite, that class doesn't matter, it must be something else. Now we're hypothesizing what that might be.

I think some of it is guilt. People who grow up middle class or above are often made to feel guilty for not being poor so they pay for men ad a way to compensate and prove they are down to earth, esp if they are dating a guy that grew up lower class.

 

[SurferBabe]

Hmmm. I don't know if I agree with the theory. The effects are too diffuse. If true, then why are middle class girls equally confused?

Good point. It isn't just about how much money is in the household, but how daughters are made to feel about their parents' financial investment in them. There are many middle and upper class households where children are still made to feel like a financial burden. There are also poor households where the parents do a good job of not projecting onto their children a negative mindset about money. They don't make their children aware of the lack of money, and they still make an effort to invest in their children's happiness. In other words, the daughters do not grow up attaching guilt to the idea of someone investing in them financially. It is welcomed warmly and is expected.

It isn't just about money, that is just one example-- but resources and effort as a whole. The conditioning becomes obvious when you ask such a woman why she provides for men financially, or drives 2 hours for a house date, etc... It comes back to her need to be fair, not wanting to be a burden, feeling guilty for making someone else go the extra mile to spend time with her, the list goes on. The conditioning starts young when she is told that she should be grateful for just having a roof over her head, and that anything for her enjoyment, no matter how small it is, is wasteful.

But this is only one reason for why some women are eager to provide for men. There is definitely fear attached to it. They weren't raised to feel comfortable receiving. They believe they should be fair, easy, and not burdensome. It begins somewhere.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

I think some of it is guilt. People who grow up middle class or above are often made to feel guilty for not being poor so they pay for men ad a way to compensate and prove they are down to earth, esp if they are dating a guy that grew up lower class.

And honestly, for black families to be middle class, the overwhelming majority requires the wife to work full time. And how many generations has one family been middle class? A lot of us are still the firsts to go to college.

So let's say my dad got one of those "good factory jobs" and my mom worked for the city before college was a necessity. But they were raised poor and still held a poor mentality despite being in the "right" tax bracket. Is it really a leap that they could pass down those same relationship/financial expectations to me?

And that's just if we buy the notion that middle class people don't struggle. Which I don't.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

... It comes back to her need to be fair.

And women will reinforce "the fairness doctrine" on behalf of men through shaming other women who they feel need to be humbled. So a lot of these women just cut out the middle man and go from zero to trying to prove that they are "good girls" who know their place.

I've always done my best to avoid being humble and it took me years to understand there's very little reward for being "good" especially when it comes to dealing with dudes. I know better than to hold my breath waiting on men to badger each other into being fair to women.

 

[ladysaraii]

And honestly, for black families to be middle class, the overwhelming majority requires the wife to work full time. And how many generations has one family been middle class? A lot of us are still the firsts to go to college.

So let's say my dad got one of those "good factory jobs" and my mom worked for the city before college was a necessity. But they were raised poor and still held a poor mentality despite being in the "right" tax bracket. Is it really a leap that they could pass down those same relationship/financial expectations to me?

And that's just if we buy the notion that middle class people don't struggle. Which I don't.

That's not entirely where I was going. I meant outsider guilt.

I'll use my family as an example. We grew up middle class. Not upper but middle class. My mom was a sahm when my sis was born. So we grew up with the example of men working and paying.

However, when my sis started dating, for some reason she kept getting with dudes who were 1 lower class and 2 not ish. I remember at one point she was dating a guy and I asked how she never dated men with jobs. She hung up on me and called me a snob. She said she just found one herself and it would be snobby to require a guy to have one when she didn't. It's like guilt about having certain things that other people don't, esp if you want to appear down.

I also noticed that with some of my friends or people I came into contact with. It's like if you didn't know the struggle you couldn't claim to be real or authentically black. And by requiring men to have or do certain things was like being white.

I don't know if that makes sense.

 

[ladysaraii]

And women will reinforce "the fairness doctrine" on behalf of men through shaming other women who they feel need to be humbled. So a lot of these women just cut out the middle man and go from zero to trying to prove that they are "good girls" who know their place.

I've always done my best to avoid being humble and it took me years to understand there's very little reward for being "good" especially when it comes to dealing with dudes. I know better than to hold my breath waiting on men to badger each other into being fair to women.

Ive come to that conclusion in recent years, but it's a ***** to try and overcome.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

That's not entirely where I was going. I meant outsider guilt.

I'll use my family as an example. We grew up middle class. Not upper but middle class. My mom was a sahm when my sis was born. So we grew up with the example of men working and paying.

However, when my sis started dating, for some reason she kept getting with dudes who were 1 lower class and 2 not ish. I remember at one point she was dating a guy and I asked how she never dated men with jobs. She hung up on me and called me a snob. She said she just found one herself and it would be snobby to require a guy to have one when she didn't. It's like guilt about having certain things that other people don't, esp if you want to appear down.

I also noticed that with some of my friends or people I came into contact with. It's like if you didn't know the struggle you couldn't claim to be real or authentically black. And by requiring men to have or do certain things was like being white.

I don't know if that makes sense.

It makes total sense. Sorry I went off on a tangent lol.

 

[RoundEyedGirl504]

And honestly, for black families to be middle class, the overwhelming majority requires the wife to work full time. And how many generations has one family been middle class? A lot of us are still the firsts to go to college.

So let's say my dad got one of those "good factory jobs" and my mom worked for the city before college was a necessity. But they were raised poor and still held a poor mentality despite being in the "right" tax bracket. Is it really a leap that they could pass down those same relationship/financial expectations to me?

And that's just if we buy the notion that middle class people don't struggle. Which I don't.

I think that the wife having to work probably isn't as important of a factor as how their dynamics are in the family. If the wife is staying home but it's made clear she's not as valuable a contributor as the husband you end up in the same place. Like that scene from the Joy Luck Club when the fool told his wife she owed $X for the ice cream even though they clearly made enough money that it wasn't an issue.

There was a thread on here years ago where people talked about how marital finances were handled and I took a lot of good cues from there on how money can impact dynamics and how that translates to the kids.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

I think that the wife having to work probably isn't as important of a factor as how their dynamics are in the family. If the wife is staying home but it's made clear she's not as valuable a contributor as the husband you end up in the same place. Like that scene from the Joy Luck Club when the fool told his wife she owed $X for the ice cream even though they clearly made enough money that it wasn't an issue.

There was a thread on here years ago where people talked about how marital finances were handled and I took a lot of good cues from there on how money can impact dynamics and how that translates to the kids.

Good point

 

[Evolving78]

That's not entirely where I was going. I meant outsider guilt.

I'll use my family as an example. We grew up middle class. Not upper but middle class. My mom was a sahm when my sis was born. So we grew up with the example of men working and paying.

However, when my sis started dating, for some reason she kept getting with dudes who were 1 lower class and 2 not ish. I remember at one point she was dating a guy and I asked how she never dated men with jobs. She hung up on me and called me a snob. She said she just found one herself and it would be snobby to require a guy to have one when she didn't. It's like guilt about having certain things that other people don't, esp if you want to appear down.

I also noticed that with some of my friends or people I came into contact with. It's like if you didn't know the struggle you couldn't claim to be real or authentically black. And by requiring men to have or do certain things was like being white.

I don't know if that makes sense.

That’s how things were for me. My mother graduated from college, and became a teacher. My parents met in college. My dad was a plant manager, so of course he was the main breadwinner. My guilt came from outside. Some guy was always making comparisons and stating he didn’t have it as well as me.. I always had to prove myself and make him feel more comfortable around me. Guys that come from a different environment (not just financial) like dating and being with girls/women that are total opposite, or don’t remind them of where they come from..
But to guilt and shame somebody for that is something else.

 

[sweetvi]

I'm totally a give and take person in a relationship. I've called to ask what they wanted for dinner and I've had the same done in return and never felt an imbalance at all. In fact, they did most of the cooking which is something I assumed I should do.
I'm also learning that I tend to give more than I receive in general (not in my last relationship though, he was quite giving).
Also, I don't like to ask a man for anything and it takes a lot for me to ask for help from anyone (outside of work mainly). I've always acted as the protector of others and never protected or guarded myself much. It's something that I have to re-learn.
Even in lending people money, I did it so freely and completely been taken advantage of so I don't lend money anymore.

Us being Haitian women has hurt us. We are taught to be submissive and manu are. If we allow people to take, they will suck us dry. I was taught in my household to be a good girl and to give. I've seen my mom taken advantaged of by my uncles and cousins and I noticed myself going that path. This year alone I have 3 people who owe me money and in their mind, since I have a career, I can afford to wait. I'm about to be queen B...by next year. Im changing that mentality. I used to worry about people liking me but f..them, I prefer people to respect me now. Sorry for my rant

 

[sweetvi]

A woman who leads with fear and anxiety usually won't attract a quality man. She'll attract what's easy and accessible, which is usually a guy who will only provide so much before he expects her to start chipping in. I know because I was that woman. It is hard for a woman to feel confident in receiving when she's been brought up in an environment that constantly reinforces the lack of resources for her.

This was so well said. Wow...deeep. I'm getting over my anxiety and doubts, but it creeps up time and time again

 

[qchelle]

Even wth my friend group in high school (made up of girls and boys), we'd always make the boys pay for us whenever we went to do activities. We'd always say we were preparing them for when they had gfs and wives

 

[sweetvi]

I have felt this way about family, not wanting to be a burden and easing their financial burdens but not about men.
And not about family anymore. If you’re giving, people will take with no regard to your own needs and will become indignant when you put yourself first. Most people are naturally selfish and if you don’t set boundaries they will take everything you have. IMO anyway.

Shout it again!!! When you stop giving money wise and even emotionally, they turn indignant and spread rumors about you.

 

[sweetvi]

I don’t think that’s why she did it. It was just straight up earning someone’s love, or showing what all they have to offer. A lot of women do that. This whole everybody bringing something to the table is so confusing. Women offer sex, money, shelter, food, stability, etc.. they don’t see another type of value in themselves that can and should be offered. And you have men (with and without fathers) that are comfortable with women doing all of things for them. The roles have been switched. Men feel like they are the prize and you have desperate women falling for it.

Boom! In a nutshell

My ex said something I'll never forget: he said I'm glad I wasn't born a woman. You guys have it hard.

 

[sweetvi]

And women will reinforce "the fairness doctrine" on behalf of men through shaming other women who they feel need to be humbled. So a lot of these women just cut out the middle man and go from zero to trying to prove that they are "good girls" who know their place.

I've always done my best to avoid being humble and it took me years to understand there's very little reward for being "good" especially when it comes to dealing with dudes. I know better than to hold my breath waiting on men to badger each other into being fair to women.

What steps did you take? I'm on a different level after being burned often for being fair. These men move on with no guilt and are now married or with new women.

 

[sweetvi]

I will be watching this thread. God knew I needed this thread. I'm doing alot of internal work, changes and reflection and I was brought to this thread for a reason. Thanx

 

[hopeful]

And women will reinforce "the fairness doctrine" on behalf of men through shaming other women who they feel need to be humbled. So a lot of these women just cut out the middle man and go from zero to trying to prove that they are "good girls" who know their place.

I've always done my best to avoid being humble and it took me years to understand there's very little reward for being "good" especially when it comes to dealing with dudes. I know better than to hold my breath waiting on men to badger each other into being fair to women.

A thousand thanks.

 

[SweetNic_JA]

Earning his love by providing food, service, money, use of her car, $20 from her Link card, washing his laundry, babysitting his children, etc.

It's all the same.

and SEX.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

and SEX.

Yes the main one!

 

[JFemme]

What a timely and most excellent thread - thank you @BEAUTYU2U for kick starting the conversation

 

[kxlot79]

This is a very interesting thread. Thought I'd add my two cents. I've dated men across a very broad spectrum in terms of class, wealth, education etc. And I've found my attitude in my dealings with them to be different based on our relationship dynamics. I've had low hourly wage earners happily spend their whole check on me and I've had 6 figure earners suggest we go Dutch.
My experiences tell me that a man's attitude towards ME matters more than his attitude towards women in general. My guy friends will brag to me about being able to get away with certain things from one chick that they wouldn't DARE with another. So I think how a man treats women is more about the women than the man.
I also grew up technically middle class. Some might say poor. I never ever felt poor. Both my parents instilled the importance and pride in being able to get my own. I never felt a lack. I asked for computers and telescopes and microscopes for Christmas and that's what I got. Idk if that's because my parents value education and wanted to foster my intellect or if they were just giving parents. As an adult, I learned of the extra shifts and seasonal second jobs which were acquired to fund my merry christmases. But I just thought my parents were hardworking genies as a kid.
Things my parents didn't value and wouldn't get me (like Barbie's dream house) they encouraged me to find a way to pay for myself. So I would collect cans and sell stuff and do odd jobs for money, save up, and buy things I wanted.
I think this gave me a very balanced attitude about money. I appreciate gifts. To some degree, I expect them. But whatever isn't given freely, I'm confident I can get myself.
In my adult relationships, this expresses itself in reciprocity. Men who feel comfortable asking me to go Dutch I feel equally comfortable asking him to take me to a place he can afford to treat me.
More often than not, I don't get attached to such men, because they can't match my lifestyle.
It's not a matter of I earn more therefore I'm out of his league, but rather it's a clear mismatch of personalities and values and why cause ourselves unnecessary trouble? More often than not I hear of the incessant headaches that earning more than a man sprouts. And I honestly feel women who are high earners tend to be more educated, more ambitious, and more appreciative of the finer things of life. A man who doesn't work for those things doesn't value them enough to. There's usually a fundamental mismatch.
All that being said, I see what OP said in many of my close acquaintances and it baffles me. I expect a lot of others because I expect a lot from myself. I am ambitious and get along best with other ambitious people. I have nothing to prove to anyone. And I am not ever a burden. Well, maybe I am but I'd be hard pressed to believe it.
I am a blessing to everyone who has the pleasure to share my air and I tend to attract people who are profound blessings to me. I expect the best out of life and overwhelmingly get it. Why the heck would I settle for or be attracted to someone who does not or cannot offer me the very best???
**rant over** lol

 

[Fine 4s]

Man....listening to some of ya'll talk makes me think that I really need to find some self worth.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

Man....listening to some of ya'll talk makes me think that I really need to find some self worth.

Well I never intended anyone to feel bad about their self, just help us identify some underlying issues and fix em.

 

[Fine 4s]

Well I never intended anyone to feel bad about their self, just help us identify some underlying issues and fix em.

It's a good think beauty.....lol

 

[ArrrBeee]

Man....listening to some of ya'll talk makes me think that I really need to find some self worth.

When you do, try not to punish yourself for finding it sooner. Thats my current struggle. It took me a LONG time to learn how to value myself but in hindsight, not really. I was raised by a narc and married to a person with Borderline Personality Disorder with narc tendencies.There were a decades of mistreatment that I had to slough off. They neither loved nor valued me, so in turn, I didn't value myself. How could I?

A woman who leads with fear and anxiety usually won't attract a quality man. She'll attract what's easy and accessible, which is usually a guy who will only provide so much before he expects her to start chipping in. I know because I was that woman. It is hard for a woman to feel confident in receiving when she's been brought up in an environment that constantly reinforces the lack of resources for her.

This all day. When my ex and I reunited, he slowly realized that I was no longer a broken winged dove, but rather an eagle. I'm reminded of a time when he asked me to stop and pick up food for his family who was visiting. I spent $25 and he gave me a $20. I just looked at him and asked for the rest of my money. He was offended.

By then, I had grown enough to realize that this was a sign of disrespect.

In my teen years, I watched my mom hold it down after my dad got laid off. She was the breadwinner and emasculated him. He never took the initiative to be a provider and it made my siblings and I feel that was a good option. We have all struggled relationally and one of my sisters stays bringing home hobosexuals.

I am proud to say that I now have a very healthy sense of entitlement.

 

[PrissiSippi]

Interesting...

So you all are saying that you've never picked up food or something and if so, you expect to be reimbursed? I wouldn't say that I feel burdensome, I just don't see the big deal. It's not like I'm picking up steak and lobster. Also, my mother stayed home and my stepdad took care of us. Most people would say I was spoiled as well. I don't consider those small instances supporting men.

I think some people like me don't get the "big deal". Buying food is not a big deal but I saw my niece do this the other day for a guy. I felt like it was a test. He will continue to ask her for "little things" to continue on to ask her for "big things". I want it to stop now but she's not the type to listen sooo...live your life girl.

I'ma talk about my own stupidity here on how this escalates

1. I have helped boost the credit of ninjas that were not my husband. I wanted to subconsciously prove that I was "worthy" of his time as compared to the basic bottom chick he was going with before. I didn't think of it like that though. I'm like...It takes me no time to improve his credit. I'm smart so it takes me maybe 30 minutes to research, another 30 minutes to type, then print and send off when I'm sending my mail. No big deal right? WRONG PRISS WRONG. Those resources and little time could be used to do something for ME not a dude that's auditioning for the part.

2. My dad. He's a booty hole to me. He treats me bad. I want to prove that I'm a "good girl". He will literally call me a failure to my face and I will come back over a week later and say hey Dad how are you doing? Do you need me to get you anything? And have a cordial conversation like nothing bad ever happened. It didn't take much to just have the common courtesy to say how are you and act nice...I mean I was there to see my mother anyway...but I was doing too much for a man that won't extend that same courtesy to me.

3. Ninja number 2- If was doing homework. I would give him a copy of it. It takes no extra time or extra effort, right? It's nothing. And I'm helping someone else. BUT Is he going out of the way to help you? No. He's not worth it.

I say all this to say I have seen girls like me make excuses for doing small things that "It's nothing" to do. It leaves us heartbroken and distraught in the end when ole dude STILL does not pick us. These articles are definitely needed especially amongst the college crowd.