Setting high standards within a marriage...

daviine, it's never too late join in on this thread. Welcome:). I'm so glad it has been helpful too you. That makes me feel really good. Your sister was blessed to have you as an example but it's not too late for you. We all have our own paths.

Southernbella. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. And I agree with you completely. Society really kind of puts these decent black men on a pedestal which is silly. And it does make some black women feel they have to put up with ridiculousness.
 
I'm not even close to being married but threads like this are part of why I keep paying my $6.50 year after year. Excellent insight. :yep:
 
I absolutely love this thread!:grin: I'm not close to being married or in a relationship but I love the wisdom being shared here. Thanks hopeful for starting it. A lot of this resonates because it's part of my personality but I've definitely gotten these types of messages...

hopeful said:
I have always thought that I was very feminine but I was taught at a very young age to be selfless by both my mother and especially my father. The book goes on to explain that a father who takes is being feminine. But if you are a little girl and your father is taking you assume that is the masculine role because you don't know any better. And you assume the selfless giver is feminine because you are a girl.

I know that some women have masculine energy and want a man to be the feminine energy, but I believe most women crave to be the feminine energy in a relationship and want to be cherished, protected, and given to. Of course the woman gives in return but only after or in response to the man. And she says you never give as much. I think she is really onto something because so many of us give give give first, waiting for it to be reciprocated. I think a lot of us have it backwards. And sometimes I think things start off right but the woman tries to be too helpful all the time, too nice, and if the guy has that underlying tendency to take, he will. Sometimes this over giving nature kicks in after becoming a mother and the wife becomes a mother to everyone in the family.
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The bolded is so true. But I was taught that's what the woman has to do and for a while I was questioning if I even wanted to be in a relationship or marriage. Under that logic, I'm not getting anything out of it. As it stands, I've got a pretty amazing life without a man. Sharing my life with one should make it better, not worse. Glad to know what I'm feeling isn't strange or wrong somehow.
 
ScorpioBeauty09 said:
I absolutely love this thread!:grin: I'm not close to being married or in a relationship but I love the wisdom being shared here. Thanks hopeful for starting it. A lot of this resonates because it's part of my personality but I've definitely gotten these types of messages...



The bolded is so true. But I was taught that's what the woman has to do and for a while I was questioning if I even wanted to be in a relationship or marriage. Under that logic, I'm not getting anything out of it. As it stands, I've got a pretty amazing life without a man. Sharing my life with one should make it better, not worse. Glad to know what I'm feeling isn't strange or wrong somehow.
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Yes ScorpioBeauty09 Sharing your life with a man should make it better:yep: and being mommy to everyone is not good or healthy for you, your children, or your dh. In the book I've been discussing she said it's natural to go into full mommy mode when you have a baby, after all they are so innocent and need our undying love and protection, but she says once they turn five, it's time to get back to you and being more self-centered. Now of course that does not mean neglecting your babies, but getting back to your femininity. Your children need to see you in all your gloriousness (boys and girls). Your husband needs to see you in full bloom as well and continue to court you and keep you on a pedestal. Husbands and children rebel at first, they think they need you to keep mothering them, but they actually grow and become happier when you are more self-centered, beautiful, happy. It gives them joy, teaches them to problem-solve, to be independent, and to love you even more, not just for being mommy but for being feminine, beautiful, smart, and creative. The more you you become, the better everyone becomes.

The children thing and mommy thing is tricky. Best to never slip into mommy mode with the dh. Also if daddy goes into full daddy mode, the mommy role won't be so taxing.
 
FelaShrine said:
Examples please :)
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Like this guy I know from school. His wife had bronchitis (they have 4 boys). He was on fb talking about how he can't wait for her to get better because the house is a wreck. I had to sit on my hands to keep from saying something.

Or when having discussions about relationships, the guys who talk about their expectations or standards and what wives should do or what their wives do or don't do to make sure they are happy. It's just a certain attitude when they speak that's such a big contrast from other men I know. Those dhs don't have all these expectations or rules or what have you. As long as their women are happy, they feel gratified. They talk about what THEY do for the family.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF
 
Im mad you sat on your heads, I mean if dude is worthy enough to be on your FB, he should be able to take you going off on his wack arse :nono:
 
FelaShrine said:
Im mad you sat on your heads, I mean if dude is worthy enough to be on your FB, he should be able to take you going off on his wack arse :nono:
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I didn't feel like getting into it. We had just had a loooong debate about this idiotic meme that was going around (the one saying a real woman supports her man when he's broke while little girls order off the menu or some such nonsense. Even dh said something and he rarely gets caught up in my debates). I keep him on hoping my rants will influence him. I have a few male fb friends like that. They're so used to women cosigning their foolishness that I feel it's my duty to show them some women think differently.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF
 
So I finished the book, Getting to "I Do".

"Engagement and marriage are not the end goal of commitment but rather the beginning. To keep commitment viable, you must use your negotiation skills throughout your relationship. Everything remains negotiable and is continually renegotiated because nothing in life is constant, even among successful people"

Also, "To stay together today, a couple has to negotiate and renegotiate continuously, and that is the way it should be. If the negotiation table is not available and actively used, they could start to take each other for granted..."

And this reminder: "In the long haul of marriage, your self-love will form an anchor in a stormy sea and a spiritual bedrock for your home. When a woman loves her man better than herself, she runs the risk of being used."

So I guess that's pretty much it. She also says to remember that nobody is perfect. She says that if he's 51% of what you want, work with him, unless he makes you sick or drives you crazy.
 
We have to stay on our pedestals and require that we be cherished. I think that is our challenge. If our men really are men and they love us, they will do what they need to do, at least most of the time. That is what most of us required throughout the dating process and that is why we said yes to marriage in the first place.
 
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hopeful

Although I don't post much in these type of threads, I wanted to let you know that I truly enjoy reading them. Thanks for always sharing your thoughts and insights on the forum.

hopeful said:
I know we talk a lot to single ladies about setting standards. You know, things like require that he call more, vs. texting, that he take you out on "real" dates, pays, opens doors, has similar goals and values, no sex without commitment, etc. But I would like to talk about setting standards within a marriage. I think sometimes men slack once they get married or they have no idea how to be a good husband or they have so many issues from childhood that they are not willing or able to resolve. It seems to me that women sometimes feel stuck because they want to stay and be married so badly so they just kind of stew, suffer, become bitter, fuss, etc. It's clear cut when he's a drunk, won't work, is abusive, cheating, and even then it's not always easy to leave, but it's more straight forward. Like you know you deserve better than a cheater or an abuser. You know that. I found that whereas for women there are a lot of gray areas, for men things are more black and white. And so if it's not a deal breaker for us, it's not for them either.

I hope I'm not rambling. Really trying to get to my point. Like most women know what they absolutely won't tolerate. Like no matter how good looking a guy is, if he smelled badly or didn't have a job, we wouldn't even think twice, like no I will not date you :nono: keep it moving homie. And within a marriage if the dh was like yeah I want to sleep with you and your best friend, you would be like, not just no, but hell no. And so dh's know what not to ask and what you won't tolerate. So why do we tolerate so many other bad behaviors? Those things that people say well that's just how men are or well girl, you can't have everything.

I think the bottom line is that as wives we must set the standards and require that they be met. And it must be black and white, clear cut. I must have this or else :look:. Things like flowers, sharing the load with housekeeping and child-rearing, taking you out on dates. Men need to understand that just like they had to do certain things to get you to marry them, they must do certain things to keep you, period.

This thread I hope will be ideas and techniques on how to get what you want and need as the wife, as a woman within a marriage. I have some suggestions and ideas but I'm tired after writing alladat. I'll add more later.

Ladies, any suggestions, thoughts, encouragement for married sisters?
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My best friend is a nut.:lol: She's a few months pregnant (yay!). She was telling me last night that her dh is not allowed to drink until she has the baby. In her eyes, THEY are pregnant. He said he would compromise and not drink around her and she agreed.

I thought that was funny but it got me to thinking about setting standards regarding babies and parenting. I have some thoughts but I'm running out with the kids. I'll come back to elaborate.

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So when dh and I were pregnant, I didn't give a lot of thought to what kind of father he would be. I knew his character and assumed he would be an equal partner in parenting.

When my kids were infants, he took paternity leave both times to take care of us in the first few weeks. He got up when I got up even though I was breastfeeding. He changed diapers, rocked them, read to them, bathed them, etc.

The thought of most of it falling on me never crossed my mind. Yet I see a lot of new mothers who either don't want or can't get their partners to be involved during the infant stage.

It is my opinion that this sets a precedent. If you see and/or he yourself as more of a parent than your dh, then down the road, you will be doing more of the parenting work. I think women need to set the bar high from the very beginning so that there is no epiphany one day where you realize you're doing everything and dh is checked out.

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hopeful Thank you so much for telling us about that book. It has really changed my approach to dating and opened my eyes to a ton of things I did wrong.

I also watched an interview with Dr. Pat Allen and Audrey Hope on YouTube. Her personality tickles me because she's so blunt. But everything that she suggests that I've implemented she's been right about
 
hopeful said:
I'm reading a book right now called Getting To "I Do" The Secret to Doing Relationships Right!. Even though I'm already married I thought it would be helpful because someone on this forum recommended it, can't remember who, and I thought it would be helpful because it talks about how women can get what they want.

The author says, "The feminine energy is not giving...women must give back to men who graciously give, protect, and cherish first...When a man can give, protect, and cherish his woman above himself, he has matured to "selflessness" and he will be rewarded by those he loves...A masculine-energy man does not marry a woman who gives to him, unless he is a "little boy" who wants to be mothered."

I think this is very telling because many of us were raised to believe that giving is feminine. A lot of black men were raised by mothers who spoiled them and gave them too much which encouraged them to believe that women should be the givers. I'm thinking no wonder so many women are exhausted. They are being the man in the relationship without even realizing it.

I have always thought that I was very feminine but I was taught at a very young age to be selfless by both my mother and especially my father. The book goes on to explain that a father who takes is being feminine. But if you are a little girl and your father is taking you assume that is the masculine role because you don't know any better. And you assume the selfless giver is feminine because you are a girl.

I know that some women have masculine energy and want a man to be the feminine energy, but I believe most women crave to be the feminine energy in a relationship and want to be cherished, protected, and given to. Of course the woman gives in return but only after or in response to the man. And she says you never give as much. I think she is really onto something because so many of us give give give first, waiting for it to be reciprocated. I think a lot of us have it backwards. And sometimes I think things start off right but the woman tries to be too helpful all the time, too nice, and if the guy has that underlying tendency to take, he will. Sometimes this over giving nature kicks in after becoming a mother and the wife becomes a mother to everyone in the family.

Like I said I'm just reading this and wanted to share. Still digesting it.
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hopeful what a great thread! I definitely want to read this book. This post made me understand something my SO said yesterday. We are both book worms and plan on reading a book together. He said we should read a book on relationships and I chose the book. I asked him when are you getting your book? (We are long distance) He told me when you buy it. He was being smart and knew that I wouldn't really want to buy it (even though its not expensive). He just wanted to see what I was going to do. I was going to get it for him bc he always is the one giving so I didn't mind. He told me to never buy him nothing. I said not even a gift on your birthday??? He said I don't want anything. Now I am still going to do things for him to show support but this post made me understand why he feels that way. I don't mind I will let him be the giver. But I have learned that real men give when they have a great support system.
 
kweenameena said:
hopeful Thank you so much for telling us about that book. It has really changed my approach to dating and opened my eyes to a ton of things I did wrong.

I also watched an interview with Dr. Pat Allen and Audrey Hope on YouTube. Her personality tickles me because she's so blunt. But everything that she suggests that I've implemented she's been right about
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I saw her on YouTube and I agree, she is blunt and I think that's cute too. She really takes relationships and women's happiness seriously:yep:.

tinkat I think we are all just waiting for your "I'm engaged!" thread :). So glad you found a good guy and that he found you.
 
DH has gotten much better at listening to me and responding to me without me having to throw a fit to get him to pay attention. Part of it is me refusing to go there with him anymore, but part of it is him focusing on it and making an effort in that area.

In all of the advice we give, the foundation is having a good man who loves you and is willing to work with you. It's important to be able to recognize when a man is worth the effort, or when you just need to cut your losses and start over.
 
hopeful said:
Nice. "The black woman is the key." :yep: I like how he broke that down. I know my husband's love for me has made him a stronger man and a better man.
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What does this mean? I hear this a lot and wonder how can someone else make u better? Don't you do better because you want to for yourself and not for or because of someone else? Is it a different rule for men?
 
Fine 4s said:
What does this mean? I hear this a lot and wonder how can someone else make u better? Don't you do better because you want to for yourself and not for or because of someone else? Is it a different rule for men?
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I hear people say this about having kids all the time. From what my parents are relatives have said, it's made them more patient, maybe more loving. It can make people consider issues they didn't before such as men who have daughters consider their treatment of women. It can make them strive further career wise b/c you might be fine in a studio apt eating take out as a single, but when you have a family, you want them to have a better quality of life, etc etc.

I think it's more that these people in their lives spark the desire to do better within themselves.
 
Fine 4s said:
What does this mean? I hear this a lot and wonder how can someone else make u better? Don't you do better because you want to for yourself and not for or because of someone else? Is it a different rule for men?
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The guy in the video is referencing the Willie Lynch Letter and it makes alot of sense to me. The roles of the black men and black women were reversed. The black men were raised to be physically strong while the black women were raised to be mentally strong. The result of the black women being raised to be mentally strong and independent is that she is always doing everything and giving everything (even when the man is suppose to step in). That video made me think of this thread for that reason. A man wants to give and we should let him. But a lot of black men are raised to think that the woman is suppose to give and cater at all times.

As far as the comparison for how can a person make you a better person...I look at it as a parent look at their child. I am not a parent but I know that my mother feels that my siblings and I made her a stronger person. Her love for us and the sacrifices that she gladly made shaped her and molded her into the woman that she is today. I think that is the same as when a man looks at his wife.
 
ladysaraii said:
I hear people say this about having kids all the time. From what my parents are relatives have said, it's made them more patient, maybe more loving. It can make people consider issues they didn't before such as men who have daughters consider their treatment of women. It can make them strive further career wise b/c you might be fine in a studio apt eating take out as a single, but when you have a family, you want them to have a better quality of life, etc etc.

I think it's more that these people in their lives spark the desire to do better within themselves.
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I definitely agree! I didn't realize you posted the same thing :).
 
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