No such thing as healthy relaxed hair?

[chicamorena]

Hi I'm relatively new here. I was natural for 17 years before I got a relaxer. I've only been relaxed for 2 years. Now that I am relaxed I don't really do things all that much differently now than when I had natural hair. I took care of my hair when it was natural and I take care of it now. I haven't experienced any extra breakage, dryness, etc. I had thick natural hair and I have thick relaxed hair now. I know that my hair is healthy and no matter what somebody says in a book, they cannot change my mind. There are so many so called "hair experts" out there who want to tell people about their hair. But health is a relative term. What one person may define as healthy may not be healthy to another person. So I don't feel a need to debate with anybody on whether or not my hair is healthy. And I do not feel that everybody is in a position to tell somebody whether their hair is healthy or not. So ladies if you feel that you have healthy hair in your heart, then don't worry about it. People are always twisting the facts to support their arguments. There is always an exception to every rule.

 

[JaneiR36]

Chimma, you're possibly quite right. But I think the percentage of Black folk whose hair would really suffer without the oils and moisturizers is a lot higher than the other folk who can't get by without it.

My hair doesn't shine without the right products (ie oils or serums or glossers) either! As far as the smoothness, you do have a point. Although, I think my newgrowth is pretty smooth sometimes. The way I feel the curls, it doesn't feel, for instance, the way split hair feels.

That's why it's important to know what someone thinks is healthy hair. It's just such a general term that don't mean squat if you don't get specific.

 

[Supergirl]

Awww, thanks Shinyblack--that was very sweet.

And Chaya--let me get in on the props to your hair

I LOVE it! That's a cute style. I love those hi-lites too...if only I were so courageous

 

[Nonie]

[ QUOTE ]
Chimma said:
I don't think that staying smooth and not frizzing or shining are characteristics of healthy hair. First, shine happens when the cuticles are smooth enough for light to bounce off of them. Curly or nappy hair usually has sheen, not shine because the cuticles don't lie smooth. And as for hair staying smooth, if your hair is natural, it's not going to be smooth! Those are characteristic of healthy straight hair, not necessarily healthy hair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to chime in and state that it is true that when the hair cuticle isn't lying flat light isn't reflected off the hair well so hair that could be shiny will appear dull. That explains why split ends look dull. But it is inaccurate to imply that the cuticles on natural/curly hair don't ever lie flat or that the natural hair shaft isn't ever smooth, and to explain that as the reason for lack of shine. Don't get me wrong: raised cuticles could occur in natural hair but they aren't typical or a mark of natural curly hair, nor are they the reason it doesn't shine like straight hair. Rather it's the curly characteristic of the hair as a whole that prevents light from bouncing off it the way it bounces off very straight hair. (It is also these darling curls of our type 4 hair that make it so much drier than naturally straighter hair because our sebum has more trouble traveling up the strands of our hair than it does on straighter hair.)

If you don't believe me that shine increases proportionally with how straight your hair is, compare how shiny your natural hair gets when you press it even with nothing added to it. Or let's even leave out the heat in case you argue that it's not really "natural" or claim that the iron/comb smoothes the cuticle.

Take any healthy natural hair and look at it when in its natural resting state ie shrunken state. Then grab the ends of a few strands and stretch them out as straight as you can without smoothing the length with your fingers so there's no cheating

. You'll see an improvement in shine because of better light reflection in the hair when straight, than when it was curly. Just thought I'd clear this up.

 

[brittanynic16]

Well, I love my relaxed hair. It is soft, shiny and strong (no breakage). Maybe it is healthy maybe not, personal, I could care less as long as it keeps retaining length. Yeah, if you want to say it is unhealthy okay that's fine. Analyze it, define it, categorize it, whatever pleases you. I like natural and relaxed hair. I think they are both beautiful. I have never really thought about whose is stronger. If it stays on your head and looks good that's all that matters to me. I would like to address something that was said though. Someone stated that relaxed hair couldn’t be full and thick. I have very thick and full relaxed hair and it is not under processed. In fact, my hair's nickname is bush bush

. People always ask me if I am natural. I really need to post some more pictures. Anyway, I just would like to agree with many of my favorite ladies. It is all in maintenance and that is real! Like it or not, if you don't take care of it will fall out. Case and point, I knew this girl in high school. Her hair didn't grow from 6-12 grade and yeah she was natural. Problem? Poor maintenance. Yeah, maybe her hair was stronger but I rather take the weak relaxed stuff I got now!

 

[Tchutchuca]

Pantene commercial girls.... don't be so naive BamaFro. No one has a hair like that in reality, not even the Chineses and Indians. Computers can make a big difference these days.

And I am sorry all the naturals, I admire you all, but once I see a hair like SUPERGIRL has, nobody, I MEAN NOBODY can prove that I am wrong about relaxers. If that hair is unhealthy, only God knows what have a healthy hair means.

You go Supergirl

be the inspiration for all of us about how to get a "unhealthy" hair.

 

[adrienne0914]

bamafro, i ain't mad atcha! i don't think that differing opinions or facts mean superiority complex or anything like that. as you can probably tell though, this subject causes very strong feelings to come out. we've worked very hard here to get past this debate. you may not personally know anyone with relaxed hair that is thick and healthy, but i do... me.

i am personally more concerned with the chemicals used to treat the water that i drink and bathe in... since i bathe and drink water more often than i relax my hair. i think people would be shocked to know why their water is "hard" or even "soft."

anyway, everybody... GROUP HUG!!!

 

[AFashionSlave]

OK why don't we just get technical here.

Technically - I am not "natural" because my hair is color treated with a chemical.
Technically - My hair is not "healthy" because it has been dyed.
Technically - Relaxed hair is broken down so "technically" not healthy.
Technically - Hair is dead protein-based matter - so "technically" hair is not really healthy. All we are doing is preserving dead matter.

Now let's just get real here.

-The term healthy is different to everyone. Some people equate healthy hair with shine, bounce, length, bla, bla, bla.
-The term natural is different to everyone. Some people equate natural with "no chemicals, no products, un-cultivated hair, bla, bla, bla.

I personally have a deep hatred of hair relaxers, but hey that is my opinion. No one can change my personal opinions about hair relaxers. I cannot change anyone else’s personal opinions about natural hair.

What exactly is the point of posting this thread on LHCF?
This site has tons of women who love their relaxers & this site has quite a few women here who dislike perming. As soon as I read the topic I knew that there was going to be some sort of a disagreement.

 

[Height]

This is so sad. I don't believe the excerpt was long enough to answer the original question about everyone's OPINIONS.

"Real work and patience are required in order to bring your hair back to it's natural, healthy state, Based upon my research and experience" What real work? What research? How can you bring it back to it's natural state? Does the author mean transitioning or some type of special hair care for relaxed hair. Does the author go into detail?

Just because someone says something doesn't make it so. I know you know that. I think.

So on the count of 3. Ready, one, two, three
Breathe in, Breathe out.

 

[AFashionSlave]

[ QUOTE ]
CrownnGlori said:
This is not a slight to relaxed heads or naturals but we all know hair is dead. It is a by-product of excess keratin and other products that are in our body. Something that is dead cannot be healthy because it is not alive. There is no health to consider. That is a relative term we use. It doesn't matter if it is chemically treated or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you and I disagree with you. Yes hair is technically dead matter. Although your hair is dead, your scalp is very much alive. I have never, ever, ever seen a woman get a hair relaxer without the relaxer touching the scalp in some way shape or form.

I have had bald spots & an entire head covered with burned, painful, oozing scabs. I have even seen a few topics on this board about oozing or burning scalps. (I would also like to add that when I used to relax the instructions were always followed. I got the same burning from box kits, and professional relax jobs. So for those of you that think that I probably disobed some hair-relaxing rule...You are wrong.)

It is not a fair to say that "There is no health to consider"

The way we treat our hair can directly effect the health of our scalps.

OK - I've said all that I needed to say. This is a topic that I am very passionate about. I am also not very polished with words and I don't want to offend any of the nice ladies here.

See y’all later, I'm off to the friendlier topics.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

This is kind of funny.

The disagreements about natural and relaxed would be few and far between if people didn't make generalizations about the other group. It all boils down to personal choice and although a person may have strong convictions of why they have decided to not relax their hair, those same convictions may not hold for another person and vice versa. If a person, believes their hair is healthier when it is natural because they personally have had less breakage and more growth retained, then who can argue with that? The person down the street may have had less breakage and more growth retained when they were slapping a perm in their head every 6 weeks. While no one criticizes another person for disliking LUST but liking Pantene and Surge or criticizes one person for dying their hair red and the other jet black and another not at all, we should treat perms the same way and follow the numero uno rule around here: what works for you may not work for someone else.

 

[pebbles]

[ QUOTE ]
BamaFro said:
*SIGH* TO THE AIR: I stated fact and my opinion. This is NOT a debate about relaxed folx versus natural. I stated fact . . . point, blank, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know... After reading through this thread, I think it is turning into a relaxed vs natural debate and I really don't want to see that. We've had enough of them. Goodness knows I've had to shut quite a few of them myself, and this thread is likely next on my list of threads to close...

As those of us who have been here longer know, we've worked VERY hard to make this forum a unified place for sisters, regardless of how they wear their hair and it's going to stay that way. Let the love grow...

Other forums are free to state the "truth" about relaxed hair. We don't dispute that chemicals are dangerous, but we at the LHCF reserve the right to wear our hair as we please and PROVE that relaxed hair can be long, full, thick and healthy. That's our truth. All folks have to do is look through the pictures posted on this forum; they don't have to look far to see that there is another side to their idea of what relaxed hair is.

I'll let this thread continue for a bit because I'm certain there are people who have their 2 cents they'd like to add. We'll see how this goes...

 

[shinyblackhair]

*hugz* to you too adrienne

 

[Chimma]

[ QUOTE ]
nonie said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chimma said:
I don't think that staying smooth and not frizzing or shining are characteristics of healthy hair. First, shine happens when the cuticles are smooth enough for light to bounce off of them. Curly or nappy hair usually has sheen, not shine because the cuticles don't lie smooth. And as for hair staying smooth, if your hair is natural, it's not going to be smooth! Those are characteristic of healthy straight hair, not necessarily healthy hair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to chime in and state that it is true that when the hair cuticle isn't lying flat light isn't reflected off the hair well so hair that could be shiny will appear dull. That explains why split ends look dull. But it is inaccurate to imply that the cuticles on natural/curly hair don't ever lie flat or that the natural hair shaft isn't ever smooth, and to explain that as the reason for lack of shine. Don't get me wrong: raised cuticles could occur in natural hair but they aren't typical or a mark of natural curly hair, nor are they the reason it doesn't shine like straight hair. Rather it's the curly characteristic of the hair as a whole that prevents light from bouncing off it the way it bounces off very straight hair. (It is also these darling curls of our type 4 hair that make it so much drier than naturally straighter hair because our sebum has more trouble traveling up the strands of our hair than it does on straighter hair.)

If you don't believe me that shine increases proportionally with how straight your hair is, compare how shiny your natural hair gets when you press it even with nothing added to it. Or let's even leave out the heat in case you argue that it's not really "natural" or claim that the iron/comb smoothes the cuticle.

Take any healthy natural hair and look at it when in its natural resting state ie shrunken state. Then grab the ends of a few strands and stretch them out as straight as you can without smoothing the length with your fingers so there's no cheating

. You'll see an improvement in shine because of better light reflection in the hair when straight, than when it was curly. Just thought I'd clear this up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't imply that they never lay flat. In their natural, non straight state they do not lay flat. Raised cuticles are a mark of curly hair. Ouidad, in the first page of her curl guide, says that the spiral structure of hair forces the hair shaft to remain open and to have tiny lifted layers, and this is in other sources as well. That is also a reason that curly hair as a whole, black or non black, is drier than straight hair.

If you use products like frizz-ease, press your hair, or even pull it straight you are smoothing the cuticle from its natural state, and that is why you get more shine.

 

[JaneiR36]

AFashionSlave, I probably wouldn't like relaxers that much either if I went through what you did.

Thanks to sistahs like you with beautifully thriving natural hair, we know that it's not a dependency. For real. If it really does come to that, I know I can cut off my relaxed hair and grow my natural hair wonderfully.

Chimma, I must be the only relaxed hair person that needs proper use of products in order to get shine (okay, clearly I know I'm not, but I'm just saying

). Really, though. I personally think it's the hair type in general that doesn't have a natural shine without help, not necessarily relaxed or natural.

 

[sassygirl125]

I have the same book and was

when I read that statement. The woman in the photo was truly hairjacked.

I wonder why she kept relaxing her hair? One bad experience was enough for me... The book also features some of the ugliest hairstyles I've ever seen. The author is called a "hair sculptor", so I guess that's what she's trying to sell, but I'm still waiting for a natural hair book that features regular looking hairstyles.

Technically, broken chemical bonds is damage, but that doesn't mean properly relaxed hair can't look and feel healthy with the right care.

 

[Guest]

Bamafro, I see what your saying and I understand your stance. But you are wrong in one instance firlst my hair though relaxed is markedly thicker and fuller than all the "white" girls here that I work with, probably because I started off with afro american thick hair so. Likewise my daughter's hair while relaxed is so thick, that it looks more "light pressed" than relaxed.

I think we get caught up in this thing but you need to know that hair is dead, it has no life once emerged from the scalp. So then if something is dead it can't be "healthly" really, it is a term used.

Am I saying relaxers are good for you hair, NO
Am I saying that you can relaxed, non breaking hair, Yes Definitely.

The difference again is in the strength of course.

This is my personal prefrence but having a manageable, effortless hair is more important to me than the strenght as long as I treat as fragile which it is. And you said you never seen unhealthy breaking natural hair.. Girl where u from??

I seen tons of tore up choppy dry broke of in the back and left side and long on the right and front and vice versa.

It's all in how you care for it.

It's all dead, remember that.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
BamaFro said:
*SIGH* TO THE AIR: I stated fact and my opinion. This is NOT a debate about relaxed folx versus natural. I stated fact . . . point, blank, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have'nt stated fact really. Just about the Peptide Bonds.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
BamaFro said:
not really. i know of relaxed folx who use olive oil and conditioners instead of drying their hair out with shampoo all the time. i shampoo once a week. i exercise everyday so i need to clean the sweat out of my scalp or suffer from itchies from the dried sweat, yuck.

i don't see it as extra steps at all. are you telling me you don't put anything in your hair after you cleanse it ? ? ? LMAO, please.

like it's been said before, it's all subjective.

do what you do, janeir36.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bamafro, with all due respect, you come off as though you are "just stating facts" and not trying to start stuff but I've seen so many contradictions in your posts. You do know that not ALL shampoos are drying or contain sls? You do know than Mane and Tail Cond, has chemicals in it? And its not intended to "Cleanse"? So what your are doing is coating your hair why if it's not dry/brittle?

I thought you were serious at first but your beginning to lose your credibility..

 

[GodMadeMePretty]

Man. I'm off the boards for a couple of days and come back to this. Here's my two cents.

I'm relaxed. My 4-year old is natural and will be natural until she's no longer dependent upon me for support. The reason is that the chemicals in relaxers are just not good for the skin. Period. Whether they're good for the hair is irrelevant in my opinion. It's just hair and it's about how you choose to look. I happen to think that the fumes are just as damaging to the body, if not more. But I think that about a lot of things, including shampoo and conditioners simply because I have chemical sensitivities and can barely stand the scent of pine sol.

Can your hair look healthy and not be healty? It sure can. Just like a person can look healthy on the outside and be eaten up with cancer on the inside (1st hand knowledge from relatives). Can a person be healthy and not look healthy? Absolutely. It's all about how you choose to present yourself to yourself and to others.

Relaxed or natural - it's what you choose to do. Can we really say that it's healthy to eat processed foods? I mean, come on, we're talking about hair which isn't necessary for your overall body health. Rather than debate on whether you should put chemicals on something dead already, let's talk about the other chemicals (pesticides, preservatives, etc.) that we put in our BODIES which are quite alive. Chemicals which really do affect the health of a breathing, live body.

You're right when you say that the chemicals touch the scalp and sometimes you just can't avoid that but that's precisely why some of us are encouraging relaxed sistahs to stretch out their relaxers. Less chance of reaching the scalp when you have at least 2 or more inches to relax.

I like my relaxer and it takes out a good amount of the bulk that I don't want, but my hair is still thick because I have lots of strands on my head and because my hair is not fine. More like medium to coarse texture. So if you see a relaxed person with thin hair, don't just assume that it's because of the relaxer. It could be that the person's hair was fine to begin with. The same thinness would occur by applying heat.

Lots of love to all,
Happy growing, natural or relaxed - whatever floats your boat.

 

[Guest]

Chaya, is your sister's hair relaxed?

 

[Supergirl]

CORRECTION: Adrienne IS at waist length. She snuck some new pics into her album & it appears that her hair is falling at her waist.

 

[Supergirl]

Thanks Tchutchuca , me and my relaxed hair are singing "Ain't no stoppin' us now, we're on the move!..."

 

[soslychic]

88 posts in 36 hours. That's quite a record.
It's too bad a lot of space has been taken up here with a back and forth debate as to whether the other's hair is healthy.
For all that would like to know what the "point" of this thread was or what the "original poster" was thinking, I'll tell you:

I posted this because upon reading that sentence in the book, I was taken aback. I thought it was a broad generalization and quite a bold one if you don't take the time to back it up or explain your definition of healthy. I was interested to see if others would feel the same way. As I see you did. I was wondering if someone would bring up the very good point that noone cares about whats happening inside of a hair strand, rather the behavior, feel, and what THAT person wants it to do. I see that you did.
I wanted to know if anyone would bring up effects of skin, scalp, and overhealth from relaxers. Maybe I could learn from it. I see that you did.
What I did not expect to see was someone classifying someone elses hair type telling them that it's dry and brittle and that's why they do this and that. That person knows whats up with their own hair.
I didn't expect to see anyone implying that all natural hair was healthy and that all relaxed hair is not. I thought we had moved beyond that obvious untruth.
Everyone is going to have their own opinion and it's better not to try to change it. I would share my personal opinion, but I'm afraid someone would take it as a direct attack to them. People, we know better than that. We can only state what we have come to know from our own experience and try to grow in our own knowledge. Maybe we can share our thoughts and maybe someone will take it to heart. But we can't change mindsets. People will do that for themselves.

 

[skegeesmb]

Boy. Nothing like a "relaxed hair isn't healthy" thread to stir things up for the end of this year.

I agree with a lot of posts here. As a previous natural I do agree with BamaFro that well taken care of natural hair is the most healthy hair there is. In my picture to the left my hair is natural and it is flatironed. It is thick, and it feels different from my now texturized hair.

Relaxed hair is broken down by the chemicals to acheive a certain look, so the healthiest relaxed hair can't be as healthy as the healthiest head of natural hair.

Now I do believe that relaxed hair that is taken care of can still look good. Mine does. My hair is thick, but it's not as soft and shiny as it was natural. I know that my hair will grow and right now I am all about my goals. Once I hit my goals I will go natural again. But since length is my goal and not 100% healthy natural hair, I will take care of my chemically treated hair so it will feel soft, and not brittle, keep the hair on my head, and grow grow grow.

I've also seen relaxed women here whose hair looks beautiful, just as I've seen natural hair here that looks wonderful. I know that Bama isn't saying that everyone here with relaxed hair is gonna fall out.

But to say that relaxed hair will never be healthy is like a slap in the face to a board where at least 65% of the posters are relaxed. To some it sounds like: "I don't care how long your hair will grow it's still sh*tty in comparison."

And that's messed up. It's akin to a natural poster saying: I'm tired of people saying I have "good hair". Even though that person is natural no one wants to hear it because she just made it seem like everyone else on the board who doesn't have that hair has hair that is "bad".

And a few naturals have come here and said some things about relaxed ladies here back in March/April with an "April Fools" joke. I was natural then, and I saw that many relaxed ladies were outraged as well as some of the naturals here.

 

[JaneiR36]

soslychic, you read the book. What was the author's definition of healthy? Or did s/he not even bother to define it?

Also I did not mean the dry and brittle type as an insult at all! I'd assumed it was common knowledge that our hair needs constant strength and moisture because for most of us it's dry and brittle in its natural state. Or was it just politically incorrect for me to have said that? Remember I mentioned that the steps BamaFro takes to ensure moisture are the ones I do, too, not to mention most people on the board, anyway.

 

[soslychic]

[ QUOTE ]
b]JaneiR36 said:[/b]
soslychic, you read the book. What was the author's definition of healthy? Or did s/he not even bother to define it?

Also I did not mean the dry and brittle type as an insult at all! I'd assumed it was common knowledge that our hair needs constant strength and moisture because for most of us it's dry and brittle in its natural state. Or was it just politically incorrect for me to have said that? Remember I mentioned that the steps BamaFro takes to ensure moisture are the ones I do, too, not to mention most people on the board, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I can see, the author did not define her definition of healthy hair. She went through all the reasons why relaxed hair is unhealthy, but never mentioned what it takes to be heatlthy.

And I know that you didn't mean anything by what you said. Personally, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the point that you made. It just seems that some people took it in the way probably because noone wants people classifying the hair that is on their own head.

 

[Ayeshia]

its all about choice. i went natural because i barely wore my hair straight when relaxed so it was pointless to me. And in order to be "au natural" i would have to find another planet to live on. Chemicals are everywere down to the pesticides in the produce and hormones they use in chicken. I'm not referring to anyone on this board but i loathe when some people ridicule others for relaxing their hair but they have dreads or natural hair that is dyed blond or red or another color. That is a chemical as well! "Be happy with the texture god gave you". Well can i say "then be happy with the color god gave you"? Whether relaxed or natural I love all types of hair as long as it is thriving!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Karonica]

[ QUOTE ]
BamaFro said:

i have NEVER seen an unhealthy head of natural hair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come to DC.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]

As far as I can see, the author did not define her definition of healthy hair. She went through all the reasons why relaxed hair is unhealthy, but never mentioned what it takes to be heatlthy.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I'm still trying to figure out, have we defined what healthy is?