No such thing as healthy relaxed hair?

[JFemme]

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BlackCardinal said:
I've seen folks get pretty riled up about this idea and I just don't get it.

When a person with relaxed hair says they want healthy hair, they have a particular goal in mind. They know how they want it to look and feel and behave. They describe that condition as healthy. They aren't even thinking about the molecular level. You don't see/interact with your hair at a molecular level--you just deal with the overall condition and appearance. Even someone with natural hair isn't concerned about what's going on at the molecular level. They still guage the success of their hair regimen by how their hair looks, feels, and behaves. They just have different references.
You can argue til the cows come home about what is "truly" healthy, but the truth is nobody really cares unless it is affecting their ability to reach their appearance goals. And what exactly does healthy mean anyway? As it was posted earlier: "The overall condition of something: the general condition of something in terms of soundness, vitality, and proper functioning" That's a pretty relative definition when it comes to hair. People have different ideas of what it means for their hair to "function properly." And when people do try to describe what healthy is, what kinds of things to they say? All having to do with how it looks, feels, and behaves. People have their own ideal characteristics and that's what they aim for. Having your sulfide bonds intact isn't always directly related to your appearance goals.

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I don't get it either... Blk Cardinal ~~ you have your mom's sense of diplomacy and tact which summed up my thoughts exactly..

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
so in conclusion... whatever...


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Amen.

Anyway, someone define healthy. Since hair is dead, I do agree natural hair is STRONGER.

But to me healthly means not dry, lack luster, and breaking, but shiny moisturized and growing.

 

[Sky]

I have wondered about this ... but since I have joined this board my hair is very healthy. My sister told me that my hair looked like it belonged in a pantene commercial - that was such a compliment !

I do think you have to really take care of your hair if it is permed- I was told that when I was younger but didnt know what that really meant.

And you girls are so right about the protective styles. I just cannot wear my hair down a lot or my ends take a beating. I braid and tie my hair up every night and it makes such the difference and really locks in the moisture. Without this board I would truly have been lost - I would have NEVER "got it." I wish all women of color knew about this board! Just think about how much other knowledge is out there in the world that we dont know! Who would have thunk it!

 

[Supergirl]

BlackCardinal,

I couldn't have said it better myelf.

And, I definitely disagree with the statement that "once the peptide bonds are broken, there's nothing left for the hair to do but break." I can't even remember the last time I saw breakage in my hair and must say that I have the hair to prove it. (not tooting my own, just making a point)

Also, as a teacher--I have the privilege of seeing many little girls with hair relaxed & natural. I've seen naturals with eaten hairlines & I've seen relaxed girls with thick healthy long hair. So, I don't think we can just clump ALL naturals together and say they will have healthy hair. Nor can we clump all relaxed heads together & say that they will be breaking. It all boils down to how the hair is taken care of whether relaxed or natural.

 

[Marseeya]

well said supergirl and Blackcardinal... I couldn't have expressed it any plainer.. and Adrienne.. u know you the girl... tow up puts it mildly how some heads come out looking .. whether relaxed or natural... just plain and simply take care of what u got

 

[BamaFro]

That's interesting, because I use to feel the same way, MindyMouse until I became natural. Natural black hair will have a sheen to it, similar to the unshiny side of a ribbon or suede instead of a shine to it. The way light shines on natural hair makes it appear to many as dry even though I can have a head full of moisturized hair. Olive oil works wonders in creating shine if that's what I feel like doing, but most of the time I use it as a good over night conditioner/hair softener.

As for the peptide bonds, do a search anywhere on the net and it'll tell you that . . . there's a reason why your hair isn't as full as the hair on the white girl on the Pantene commercial . . . when I was relaxed I had relaxed hair half way down my back, but it was not even half as thick and full as it is now that I'm natural. Just my 0.02 cents. I've noticed this effect in EVER head of relaxed hair that I've seen.

If the relaxer is your thing, fine. Just don't try to make excuses about what it does or doesn't do to the overall health of your hair. That's my only stance on this issue.

 

[ngaa]

i agree wity most of the ladies who have stated that natural does not = healthy and relaxed isnt unhealthy coz its just how hair is taken care of. I'm natural myself and have tried visiting the natural boards that look down on relaxed heads coz mst of my inspirations are relaxed. It is definatly based on yo defination of healthy coz 4 me, healthy is bouncy and shiny and not breaking. If my hair is all this then i dont really care if the petide bonds are intact or not...

 

[Supergirl]

Thanks Marseeya!

Oh & let me add (to the air) gently but firmly--this is the WRONG board for you(to the air)if you feel the need to put down any particular hair preference. LHCF don't play DAT!

Oakie Doakie...

Don't make me come up out this computer

 

[BamaFro]

*SIGH* TO THE AIR: I stated fact and my opinion. This is NOT a debate about relaxed folx versus natural. I stated fact . . . point, blank, period.

 

[aqualung]

[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
this is the WRONG board for you(to the air)if you feel the need to put down any particular hair preference. LHCF don't play DAT!

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Precisely!

 

[JaneiR36]

hmm... I don't understand the generalization of relaxed hair can never be as thick as the white women in Pantene commercials. Have you not seen pictures on this board?

I think it's a little misleading to say relaxed hair has no choice but to break because the peptide bonds are broken. This is because the breakage our hair gets is not ONLY because of relaxer, but rather the dry hair type that most AA's have. Because of this dryness and brittleness, ALL of us whether relaxed or natural have to rely on protein and moisture products to keep our hair on our head. Chemically treated hair is obviously at more risk for this breakage, but even if you're natural, so long as you have the dry & brittle hairtype, you still have to rely on external factors to keep your hair on your head long term, ie, to retain length and grow your hair.

For instance, I have a natural friend with very thick hair who will pull out CLUMPS from her ends and say it's just "dead hair." No it's NOT dead hair, it's WEAK and BROKEN hair, strengthen your hair and it will stop breaking! I helped her use Le Kair recently. The next day she called me saying she's going to buy her some because her hair was no longer breaking!

By the way, the bonds are only broken temporarily so they can be reshaped by the comb or fingers. That's why if you don't smooth properly, your hair comes out underprocessed because the reshaping is most vital. When the neutralizer is applied, the breaking of the bonds is stopped and they are only like 50% broken. That's why we have terms like "overprocessed". If the neutralizer is not applied soon enough, the bonds keep breaking, and breaking, ...and a few of us know the end of this story first-hand

Can the original poster please post the author's definition of "healthy"? Maybe from them we can check by ourselves and make up our own minds as to whether our hair is healthy by his/her definition... lol.

 

[shinyblackhair]

[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
Don't make me come up out this computer

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Girl, I think you might have to! LOL...

Relaxed hair can be healthy LOOKING (semantics). Supergirl is PROOF. She is my hair IDOL and role model. For real.

Shoot...they don't call you Supergirl for nothin'!!!

 

[DahomeyAmazon]

I am natural now, but when I was relaxed, my hair and scalp were not any more or less healthier.
I just gave up chemicals.

Adrienne, Thanks for eloquently summing up my feelings


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adrienne0914 said:
natural is no guarantee of healthy...so in conclusion... whatever...

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[JFemme]

[ QUOTE ]
megonw said:
[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
this is the WRONG board for you(to the air)if you feel the need to put down any particular hair preference. LHCF don't play DAT!

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely!

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Amen

 

[Chaya]

Thank you Supergirl!

[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
Thanks Marseeya!

Oh & let me add (to the air) gently but firmly--this is the WRONG board for you(to the air)if you feel the need to put down any particular hair preference. LHCF don't play DAT!

Oakie Doakie...

Don't make me come up out this computer

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Ahhhhh.....I sigh of relief! Supergirl you had my putting my RELAXED hair in a bun, getting my vasaline and taking off my rings!


Ya'll in the end its all just hair! Get over it!

 

[BamaFro]

Yep, I've seen the pics on this site.

Dry and brittle hair type??? What natural hair type is that??? One of the things I've learned and love about being natural is water. It's the main moisturizer of hair and I use oils and conditioners/leave-ins to keep the moisture in.

I understand what you mean by upkeep of hair. I never said that your hair can't look nice while relaxed. Don't take it as me saying that.

Jump on me if you want to for stating the facts, but the truth is the truth.

 

[nuwoman02]

It is amazing how certain people will develope and cultivate their own superiority complex. Now we have moved on "Relaxed Hair vs. Natural Hair". Yes, I do feel natural hair can be healthier than permed hair. However, I feel there is little to be said about those Naturals who decide to dye their hair(bleached blonde, etc.) and use boat loads of chemicals to manipulate the naps! Therefore, questioning what some peolple cosider healthy hair.@#%!

Just my 2 cents!!!!

 

[JaneiR36]

Yeah, some of the ladies in the pics have really nice and thick hair. And the reason ALL of us don't have this thickness is simply variety. Trust me, all white women don't have Pantene commercial thickness, either!

Dry and brittle hair type - why do you think you use the oils and conditioners and leave-ins to keep the moisture in? A lot of type 1's and 2's will simply shampoo their hair, not paying attention to whether the shampoo is drying or not, NOT use conditioner, and certainly not use any oils because if anything, they get greasy hair and scalp. If you're still not sure whether your hair is a dry and brittle type, shampoo your hair, add some hairspray (probably the kind that contains alcohol), blowdry it, and be on your way. I just read a poster say this is how her type 1 sister styles her hair!

Water, oil, conditioner, and leave-ins (moisturizers) are the exact same thing I use to moisturize my own hair!

Girl, I'm not jumping on you. Take a second look at my post, if you want. I'm fact-statin', too!

 

[BamaFro]

ummm . . . alcohol dries the hair. why would i do that to natural hair??? different hair types require different methods of care??? i don't understand the logic to this. do you put alcohol spritzes in your relaxed hair???

like i said before, i use conditioner - mane 'n tail - to cleanse my hair throughout the week instead of shampoos with ingredients like laurel sulfate that's found in dishwashing cleaners. i use it to hold the moisture in like i said before.

i'm glad your fact checkin, but i just don't understand the anonymosity, it's sad. i wasn't looking to create enemies, i was just being honest. if it comes off as mean, it wasn't meant to be presented that way, i understand that i come off in a hard manner at times.

interesting how that dubs a person as having a superioty complex. when did i say natural hair was superior??? i said that it's healthier than relaxed hair, never said it was better.

 

[JaneiR36]

Your comment was about dry and brittle types. You had a hard time believing that natural hair falls under this hairtype. Hence my explanation. You require the extra EXTRA moisture because your hair in its unaltered unmoisturized state (most likely) IS in fact dry and brittle.

What's YOUR definition of healthy, anyway?

 

[Chaya]

OK I have had enough...really! There is some negativity coming from this post that is contradictory to the purpose of this board. Relaxed/natural or flippin' bald. The goal here is to encourage one another to help us achieve long growing healthy hair, not to chastise and berate and say anyone ones hair is better than others. If anyone on this board was so BOMB why are they on this board? Especially is they arent encouraging and uplifting?

I starting to feel offended as I am sure some other of my sisters on this board are.

 

[LuLu]

Chaya, you hair is gorgeous!, That is the cut I want!!...just wanted to give your props

 

[BamaFro]

nooo, not really. i don't require extra, EXTRA moisture in my hair. i put maybe a dime size amount of leave-in conditioner in my hair and go if i choose to sport a natural, patted down 'do.

there goes another misconception about natural hair out the window.

i mentioned the olive oil as an over night deep conditioner.

my definition of healthy hair is full, strong hair, regardless of its length. that's just a basic defintion, but i'm sure i could add on to it if i thought about it more.

what's YOUR definition of healthy hair ? ? ?

<font color="red">Chaya</font> : believe it or not, i agree with you. i bet your hair looks nice. just perusing through your album.

my hair is fine but we can all use tips, which is why i'm here, which i'm sure is the same case for you.

 

[JaneiR36]

Extra moisture, not necessarily huge glops of product. You avoid drying shampoos, you use conditioners, you use leave-ins, you use oils. Trust me, those are extra steps to ensure the moisture level of your hair, compared with the alcohol-spraying, drying-shampoo-using person I just described to you, which might very well be the typical type 1 or 2 person.

By your definition, I clearly have healthy hair as do many people on this board. I'm just saying, it's not about whether you use chemical or not, but rather what you do to keep your hair strong and moisturized, aka HEALTHY.

What I think are (some) qualities of healthy hair: doesn't break when you comb it. Stays smooth and doesn't frizz when you style it. Will shine when you apply the appropriate products. Passes the strand test (stretches at least 1/5 of it's length before breaking.

 

[BamaFro]

not really. i know of relaxed folx who use olive oil and conditioners instead of drying their hair out with shampoo all the time. i shampoo once a week. i exercise everyday so i need to clean the sweat out of my scalp or suffer from itchies from the dried sweat, yuck.

i don't see it as extra steps at all. are you telling me you don't put anything in your hair after you cleanse it ? ? ? LMAO, please.

like it's been said before, it's all subjective.

do what you do, janeir36.

 

[cary]

I don't understand the animosity here either. I'm a relative LHCF newbie, so maybe there's some history and sensitivities involved of which I am not aware.

Anyway, I generally regard natural hair as "healthier" precisely because it has not been subjected to chemical straightening, which is regarded as the most damaging chemical process that one's hair can undergo and is the most common source of hair loss in black women. Of course, not all relaxed heads are "unhealthy" (if one defines "'health" as how the hair appears and feels) and not all naturals are "healthy" (especially if it is a neglected head), but relaxed hair is in a more weakened state vis-a-vis natural hair because of the broken protein bonds and thus is not as "healthy" in that regard.

I'm a relaxed head and all of the above doesn't mean that I'll be going natural anytime soon , but it does give me cause to take the best care of my relaxed hair as possible.

In short, I did not find what you had to say too controversial.

Thanks for chiming in w/your perspective.

 

[BamaFro]

thanks for responding, cary. that was the purpose of my posts, just something to think about. i'm not trying to create natural converts, just sharing my ray of light. i respect your decision to relax in much the same way that you respect those who choose to wear their hair natural.

 

[Chimma]

Most white people that I know who blow dry their hair have damaged looking hair. They sell the dry, damaged bottles for white straight hair types as well as leave in conditioner for those type 1's as well. In white long hair sites, most of them use an oil and leave in conditioner. That's where I first heard about oils from. Black people aren't the only people whose hair benefits from leave-in's. Some hair is drier, some hair is not, some is oilier.

I don't think that staying smooth and not frizzing or shining are characteristics of healthy hair. First, shine happens when the cuticles are smooth enough for light to bounce off of them. Curly or nappy hair usually has sheen, not shine because the cuticles don't lie smooth. And as for hair staying smooth, if your hair is natural, it's not going to be smooth! Those are characteristic of healthy straight hair, not necessarily healthy hair.

I thought this site was so that all of us could support our longer hair quests, whichever route we choose to follow. This thread is getting a little harsh.

 

[JaneiR36]

*sigh* You're missing my entire point. I'm not comparing relaxed with natural, but rather natural (and relaxed) with other hair types. I'm talking about what we have in common, which is the dry hair type. I'm saying that this is the most important hurdle we need to combat, and the chemical is actually the lesser of the problems. I'm saying if you don't take the time to moisturize and strengthen our dry hair type, you can say goodbye to healthy hair, relaxed OR natural.

By the way, type 1 = naturally straight hair
Type 2 = naturally wavy (not curly) hair

These are not the typical AA hair types.

 

[BamaFro]

i know what these types are. i understand the importance of moisture or else i wouldn't be using stuff like olive oil to seal it in. you missed my point, but that's beside the point. do what you feel you need to do to create your version of healthy hair. i wish you luck in that.