Married Ladies & Committed Relationships: Can Alpha Men Make Good DH/SO?

[BeautifulFlower]

I would have to agree with the poster upthread that side Alpha-Beta personalities are more a SLIDING scale than a specific definitive personality. I know an Alpha with some Beta when he opens his mouth and I know a Beta with some Alpha in the same respect.

I don't think Alpha's and Beta's are so rare as a healthy balance is more rare. I love Alpha types but I am a women so I need the more care/appreciative/considerate side of a Beta. I want the healthy balance.

I know that you can slide on the skill as life shows you that you need to be softer or tougher in different areas of your life. Which is why I think POTUS is Alpha/Beta. He's definitely not just Beta and I definitely think he grew into his Beta traits. He has influence, personal power, presence, focus (even at times at the expense of family and this is based on pre-presidental days), ego, smooth, laid-back etc....but I know because of his wife and family and working in the community he has learned to be a softer more caring side of himself. He plays to win but he wants everyone to win too. He is a win-win thinker.

 

[LaFemmeNaturelle]

lol ok I just realized that I was thinking about type-a versus type b personalities. So it's no wonder why you all were confusing me. Yeah IDK about this alpha,beta,gamma stuff.

 

[greight]

I know that you can slide on the skill as life shows you that you need to be softer or tougher in different areas of your life. Which is why I think POTUS is Alpha/Beta. He's definitely not just Beta and I definitely think he grew into his Beta traits. He has influence, personal power, presence, focus (even at times at the expense of family and this is based on pre-presidental days), ego, smooth, laid-back etc....but I know because of his wife and family and working in the community he has learned to be a softer more caring side of himself. He plays to win but he wants everyone to win too. He is a win-win thinker.

I agree that people are under a sliding scale, but I still think that the characterization of what a Beta male is still veers into the negative as if they are a wet wipe look: sorry, that Will.I.Am thread has me rolling )

Per the bolded: I don't think he grew into his Beta traits. People have continued to state that this man hasn't changed much and has always been like this. He worked as a community organizer before he met Michelle, before he went to law school. That's a "Beta" position. He was a Beta in law school. He was on law review due to his intellect and elected to the editor position due to his ability to reconcile different factions within the HLS group.

Having personal power doesn't make that person an Alpha. He can still be focused and driven and not be an Alpha. You can have presence and be a Beta. Betas aren't rolling in low self-esteem and little ego. They also believe they can win. It's just that they don't go at winning with the idea that it has to be at others expense. Alphas will dominate a conversation with the idea that they are right.

Reading about President Obama makes me really believe he is a Beta. Is he a pure Beta? No, but I think he's more Beta than Alpha and the fact that he's President makes people assume otherwise.

 

[Katherina]

I don't think he grew into his beta traits either (I believe those were inherent). Instead, I think he adopted certain alpha behaviors because he knew what would be necessary in order for him to achieve his goals.

Just take a look at how Obama tirelessly works for diplomacy and negotiation (rather than top dog status). Also, take a look at how he strongly advocated to improve the South Side of Chicago in his pre-presidency days. He did go into law, a rational field, but it seems that he went in with an idealist's heart (to improve the lives of the less fortunate - contrast that with a typical alpha's goal of world domination ).

From this viewpoint, Obama's traits don't seem too alpha. But he's president, top dog, so does that make him alpha? IDK. Does his grand ambition make him alpha? Is there an achievement rung on the ladder to success, beyond which a man automatically attains alpha-ness?

nagawa From what I've gathered, you believe personal power doesn't affect beta-ness; you're saying that the values behind his aspirations say a lot about what his natural inclination is - beta.

Earlier in the thread, some posters noted that they believed personal power played an vital role in whether or not a man is alpha. They would thus conclude that Obama is irrefutably alpha.

Just some thoughts. I see both points of view - I think his natural inclination is beta and his status is alpha

 

[Britt]

This thread has been very insightful. Syrah has made some very good valid points. I think ideally, I'd prefer an Alpha male w/ beta qualities. Looking at things objectively and rationally, it's good to have a mix of both. A stictly pure alpha can be difficult to be in a relationship with. I think it's almost similar to how men want a freak in the sheets and a lady in the streets. I'd want an alpha in the streets and someone that has a soft side for me in the relationship.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

So...Alpha men aren't diplomatic? Balanced Alpha men are masters at diplomacy. I know one personally and I am mastering diplomacy myself and I would consider myself more A than B.

I think I can agree to disagree on this one.

BTW, BETAs aren't whimps. I REPEAT BETAS ARENT WHIMPS! Betas in my opinion are just as much "the man" as A types they are just different in there approach and personal/professional ambitious. They are responsible, dependable, and take care of the needs of those they love. A man takes care of his responsibilities. I am personally just drawn to a certain type of Alpha-ness and I have tried many times over the years to turn it off. I can not. I just accept that I like what I like and thats ok with me. *kanyeshrug*

 

[LunadeMiel]

I would say I'm married to an inbetween. I think DH is more Beta than Alpha though. While he has always worked to be the best at what he does (Valedictorian, best in sports, always had a high GPA), he is loving and compassionate towards me. However, I think this only applies to those he loves. When it comes to others there is no diplomacy with him

 

[Skyfall]

I think I would be good with an experienced and matured Alpha, just because your an Alpha doesn't mean you have to be totally narcissistic or an ******* or a Beta with Type A personality.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I would say I'm married to an inbetween. I think DH is more Beta than Alpha though. While he has always worked to be the best at what he does (Valedictorian, best in sports, always had a high GPA), he is loving and compassionate towards me. However, I think this only applies to those he loves. When it comes to others there is no diplomacy with him

Your hubby definitely sounds more A but B for you which is perfect. But I'm not his woman so what do I know....

 

[hopeful]

I also think the bottom-line is that women need to find the type of man that loves them and then have the good sense to appreciate them for who they are. Most women don't want pure Alpha men because they are very difficult. If my husband had not matured over time and learned to listen more and be more romantic we would not be together. Balance is key. No one wants a tyrant/bully or a feminine wimp. Most want an Alpha with a soft side. Betta with strength and masculinity. I just prefer someone with a few more Alpha qualities. To each her own.

My dh is at the top of his field, has the respect of many. I have seen women lift him up above their betaish husband who loves them. I had a friend who kept going on about my dh (his most recent promotion/what he had bought me, etc.) to the point that her husband became upset. To me this is ridiculous. Why lift up someone else's guy? My guy is great but he ain't doing nothing for you: ain't paying your bills and loving on you, ain't taking you to Hawaii. My dh is unique. Most men are not at the top and well-respected by most or leaders in their communities. But many more are kind and loving and will go to work and will love you. Love the one who loves you. Accept who you are and who you attract and who wants you. Alphaish males love me. It is what it is. But big whup, who cares? As long as a man loves you, is masculine, and is kind, that is what matters most. It just makes me sad when I see women go on about the Obamas of the world. Because most men aren't and can't be the top dog, the leader, the king, it's impossible. Many woman chase after what doesn't want them, what they can't have, and what is very rare. Most men are pretty cool and with the help of a good, smart, strong woman will make good husbands and fathers.

 

[Syrah]

I think this conversation is interesting with the varying definitions. It's fascinating since I think I'm with the minority in this thread in that I prefer Betas, but I never thought Betas would get such a poor rap.

But, let's consider this: extroverts vs introverts. Would you characterize most leaders as extroverts? Or do you think an introvert can lead just as well? I ask this because most would characterize extroverts as the leaders of any group simply because they're visible; but that doesn't make introverts any less capable of leading.

With that said, President Obama is a Beta. Pure and simple. I characterize Alpha-males as those who go after whatever they want, will burn bridges if they have to, and are the type to suck the air out of the room when they arrive (so all eyes are on them).

President Obama wasn't even trying to run for President at the end of 2006. Yes, he had political ambitions, but it was Dick Durbin and a few others that told him that he should probably consider it and ultimately convinced him. He gave FLOTUS veto power over his presidential bid ("Michelle is my rock. I wouldn't do this without her"). He is conflict resolution; he does not feed off of "my way is the right way."

Just because he is President of the United States does not mean he's an Alpha male. It's a leadership position, but his whole political campaign was about rising above the political rancor and creating "purple" states. That's an Alpha male?

One more example... I don't know if I would put Trump as pure Alpha or pure ***hole, but he has the characteristics of one. He absolves himself from mistakes. He goes after the women he wants. He sees himself as the source of truth. He thinks his way his right. He even tried to blow up his net worth in order look like he's dominating the industry when he isn't.

With that said, going to your example of a pack of wolves: I see two different ways of leadership. Alpha males have one style, Beta males have the other. Neither are good or bad, but that doesn't mean that Beta males can't assume leadership roles and still dominate. They simply don't think conflict is necessary to yield results.

Totally agree. People are confusing titles with personality types. "Oh, Alpha men are successful, then I need me an Alpha male".

I think Larry Ellison is the quintessential Alpha male. He doesn't just beat the competition - his goal is to have the competition as his employees. He has to have the biggest/best everything and will stop at nothing to do so. He and Paul Allen go back and forth over who has the largest mega yacht - Paul Allen is currently winning; as such, Larry Ellison has been building his next yacht for the past 3 years. They each have FIVE. And it plays out in his relationships - he has been married multiple times because he likely brings that same attitude to his relationships. I also think Chad Ochocinco Johnson is an Alpha Male. Terrell Owens? Not so much. Michael Jordan? Absolutely Alpha Male. Kobe Bryant; Beta - hate him or love him, he encourages his team mates.

Gamma men can also lead - but their leadership power stems from their empathy. They are evangelizers and their supporters are not committing to the idea, or the concept, but to the person. And often a person-to-person commitment can be much stronger than a person-to-idea commitment.

I actually think people would find it difficult to identify many Alpha men in politics, because the way in which people achieve their positions requires, at a minimum, acknowledging the needs of constituents.

And I'm glad you brought up extroverts and introverts because another misconception is that introverts are shy, socially inept and would prefer to be alone when none of the above is true. I would also say that Obama is an introvert. They say that before he gives a major speech, he sits, by himself - not with Michelle, not with the kids, not with anyone. By himself. He's drawing his strength from within, and that is quintessential introvert. Being an introvert does not mean one can not be social and gregarious...

 

[Kimgirl50]

I wouldnt know how to classify SO. Lol
All this all alpha,pheta,gamma mess. The best way to describe him and the guys i know im interested in now is..... Clark from smallville(if anyone watches....exactly like that) especially the earlier episodes. <--that probably didnt make sense.

Erm maybe an selfless caring alpha introvert. <--maybe that idk.

His dad is a Definite beta, mom alpha. His dad is amazing. His parents have been married 37 years

 

[greight]

So...Alpha men aren't diplomatic? Balanced Alpha men are masters at diplomacy. I know one personally and I am mastering diplomacy myself and I would consider myself more A than B.

I think I can agree to disagree on this one.

BTW, BETAs aren't whimps. I REPEAT BETAS ARENT WHIMPS! Betas in my opinion are just as much "the man" as A types they are just different in there approach and personal/professional ambitious. They are responsible, dependable, and take care of the needs of those they love. A man takes care of his responsibilities. I am personally just drawn to a certain type of Alpha-ness and I have tried many times over the years to turn it off. I can not. I just accept that I like what I like and thats ok with me. *kanyeshrug*

I'm not saying it's bad to like Alphas. But the truth is, I feel that Alpha males seem to get so much unncessary shine in life only because they are more visible than Beta males. If you look at this thread, it's evident where most women will fall. More often than not, Beta males receive so much disdain.

And Alpha males can be good at diplomacy. But the difference is that they believe that they are right. They have strong opinions so as a result, they'll try to play their hands to win. They'll be diplomatic, but they'll be diplomatic in that the results will always fall in their favor at any costs.

And btw, if you look at the 1st and 2nd pages of this thread, people put Alphas on such a high pedastal. They are strong, charismatic, leaders, and ambitious. And that they are the ones who attain the success in life.

What I got from the 1st and 2nd pages is that Betas are overly emotional. Hence me with the wet wipe comment.

@nagawa From what I've gathered, you believe personal power doesn't affect beta-ness; you're saying that the values behind his aspirations say a lot about what his natural inclination is - beta.

Earlier in the thread, some posters noted that they believed personal power played an vital role in whether or not a man is alpha. They would thus conclude that Obama is irrefutably alpha.

Just some thoughts. I see both points of view - I think his natural inclination is beta and his status is alpha

Exactly. An Alpha can aspire for the world to be better. A Beta can aspire for the world to be better. How they handle this will be different.

President Obama has consistently tried to build bridges to people of opposite opinions and personalities. He has goals, but he ultimately wants to get as many different opinions as possible in order to find the best solution. He is working within a framework that requires more empathy and willingness to compromise.

An Alpha male will approach it by placing the goal and then manipulating the chips so that the goal can be reached the best way how. They tend to draw the line early in the game.

And you could even look at the anecdotes given by Michelle's brother. President Obama and he played a game of basketball so that the brother could see who he really was. President Obama was a team player; he did not hog the ball. That was the brother's words, not mine.

In contrast, you can look at Kobe Bryant. Michael Jordan. They will drop 40+ points and they believe that the team won't win if they don't have the ball. Period. Kobe Bryant pushed Shaq out of the Lakers, in a way. He didn't want to share in the glory with Shaq. He wanted to be the one who was instrumental in the Lakers championship wins.

President Obama undoubtedly wants to win, but how he does it will be different.

 

[Syrah]

But why are we so bent on somehow creating a sliding scale in order for our men to be considered Alpha? That's what I don't get.

My man is Beta all day. He works in finance and is working toward starting a real estate development fund with one of his associates. He reads, sleeps and breathes real estate and we've spent many a days driving around looking at buildings. But he's a Beta. He goes in to work late on the days I'm in town. He will drop anything, including his work for his close friends and family. Beta. He's a Beta all day.

His being a Beta has nothing to do with his career - he IS a Beta and he brings that to his career.

 

[greight]

Totally agree. People are confusing titles with personality types. "Oh, Alpha men are successful, then I need me an Alpha male".

I think Larry Ellison is the quintessential Alpha male. He doesn't just beat the competition - his goal is to have the competition as his employees. He has to have the biggest/best everything and will stop at nothing to do so. He and Paul Allen go back and forth over who has the largest mega yacht - Paul Allen is currently winning; as such, Larry Ellison has been building his next yacht for the past 3 years. They each have FIVE. And it plays out in his relationships - he has been married multiple times because he likely brings that same attitude to his relationships. I also think Chad Ochocinco Johnson is an Alpha Male. Terrell Owens? Not so much. Michael Jordan? Absolutely. Kobe Bryant; not so much.

Gamma men can also lead - but their leadership power stems from their empathy. They are evangelizers and their supporters are not committing to the idea, or the concept, but to the person. And often a person-to-person commitment can be much stronger than a person-to-idea commitment.

I actually think people would find it difficult to identify many Alpha men in politics, because the way in which people achieve their positions requires, at a minimum, acknowledging the needs of constituents.

And I'm glad you brought up extroverts and introverts because another misconception is that introverts are shy, socially inept and would prefer to be alone when none of the above is true. I would also say that Obama is an introvert. They say that before he gives a major speech, he sits, by himself - not with Michelle, not with the kids, not with anyone. By himself. He's drawing his strength from within, and that is quintessential introvert. Being an introvert does not mean one can not be social and gregarious...

I agree with you. It's funny since the only thing we might differ on is Kobe Bryant. I do say he is definitely more of a team player than Jordan ever was, and Jordan is definitively the archetype Alpha man on the court.

 

[Syrah]

I would say I'm married to an inbetween. I think DH is more Beta than Alpha though. While he has always worked to be the best at what he does (Valedictorian, best in sports, always had a high GPA), he is loving and compassionate towards me. However, I think this only applies to those he loves. When it comes to others there is no diplomacy with him

Beta. The fact that he operates with one persona in some fields of his life, and another in his personal life. Beta.

Strong, successful, ambitious, loving his woman and family to pieces Beta.

I think Trumpy is an Alpha; there is no compromising with him. My SO works in commercial real estate and says that Trump's reputation is interesting because he is so demanding of his vendors/partners but within the industry he's also known for cheap construction and poor foundational quality (he does the bare minimum to slap "luxury" on his properties). And he tends to marry Alpha women - Ivana is a pitbull, Melania supposedly is no better and word on the street is Ivanka is equally bullish.

 

[Syrah]

I agree with you. It's funny since the only thing we might differ on is Kobe Bryant. I do say he is definitely more of a team player than Jordan ever was, and Jordan is definitively the archetype Alpha man on the court.

We're in agreement. I think Jordan was hugely Alpha. I think Kobe is a Beta. Kobe is encouraging his team mates on the court and during time outs. Jordan used to sit by himself and chew gum...

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Totally agree. People are confusing titles with personality types. "Oh, Alpha men are successful, then I need me an Alpha male".

ITA with this...Alpha traits are simple that...traits. They do not determine level of success. Alpha's tend to be on top but Beta's do it too. Alpha-ness isn't about that you can see on the surface nor is it what you can read about them on paper. Its an attitude and a way of viewing the world.

BTW...This thread was never intended for a debate about BETAs and ALPHAS...Thats silly. To each its own. Love who you want.

My question: Will an Alpha make a good husband? The answer I am getting....Yes they can with the right woman.

 

[aribell]

@barbiesocialite

I disagree that alpha men prefer alpha women. It makes more sense that they would prefer a wife with femininity, which would compliment their alpha-ness (femininity is diametrically opposed to alpha female-ness IMO - how can the two not be in opposition if one of the defining aspects of an alpha is machismo). I can see an alpha man mandating that his wife values his career goals over her own (an alpha woman would not comply).

An alpha man may desire a woman (girlfriend or wife) of suitable intelligence / education in a respectable field (not necessarily a genius, but a woman who can provide compatibility and conversation), but they do not necessarily desire what I would think of as an alpha female (someone so driven and devoted to her career like Janet Jackson's character in For Colored Girls).

Honestly, I think that alpha females prefer alpha males more often than alpha males prefer alpha females.

Also, cosign everyone else who is confused about Barack. His status is ALPHA, but his personality doesn't appear to be...

I don't think alpha-femaleness is defined by a woman's career ambitions. Like in the examples from How to Marry a Millionaire, all three women, including Becall's character, were fashion models living off of the generosity of rich men. Today, we would assume that such a woman would necessarily be a ditz, but that wasn't the case at all, and Becall is probably prototypical of alpha femaleness.

I think it's about the way a woman carries herself, and the degree to which she maintains her own personal standards. Does she simply go along to get along, or is she always true to her own principles? Are her expectations easy to meet, or do they require more effort? Is she self-controlled and independent, with a firm grasp on her emotions?

On this level, I think there is a similarity between the alpha female and the alpha male. They may not be pursuing the same thing, but they go after their respective pursuits with the same attitude. A couple that typifies this is Jack Doneghy and Avery on 30 Rock.

Also, I think what principally distinguishes an alpha male from a beta male is that an alpha male acts based on his own internal compass, wherever it may point. Beta males will conform to what is expected of them by others. I think it's perfectly possible for an alpha male to be devoted to his family--but if he is, it is because he has concluded that devotion to family is a principle that is important. What changes such a man makes are due to his own internal principles. I think that beta males are much more prone to change because of external opinions and pressures and to be what others expect them to be.

I have a "colleague" who I think probably typifies the best of what one can find of a beta. He's really a terrific and accomplished guy. Still, it's clear that his relationships and leadership style is based wholly on consensus, multilateral decisionmaking, championing the rights of women, and making sure no one gets overlooked. It works and I think that his gf has done well. At the same time, I think these traits only work as well as they do today because women don't have to actually depend so much on men. If you had to really depend on his career, on his decisionmaking, etc., then I'm sure the more "take charge" approach would be more attractive because you'd want the security of knowing that your husband will compete in the world and come out on top. You'd also want to know that he had the ability to withstand pressure and handle having to be the one to carry the family. If you were farmers and this year's crop failed, you'd want the man who could figure out the solution and make the snap judgments necessary to survive, not the one who's going to ask you how you feel about it. I think that men in general used to be socialized to be more alpha-ish (whether or not they were actually #1), but beta is rising today.

 

[Syrah]

ITA with this...Alpha traits are simple that...traits. They do not determine level of success. Alpha's tend to be on top but Beta's do it too. Alpha-ness isn't about that you can see on the surface nor is it what you can read about them on paper. Its an attitude and a way of viewing the world.

BTW...This thread was never intended for a debate about BETAs and ALPHAS...Thats silly. To each its own. Love who you want.

My question: Will an Alpha make a good husband? The answer I am getting....Yes they can with the right woman.

ITA. Alpha men can make incredible husbands...it just takes the right woman to understand and navigate that balance.

 

[Katherina]

So...Alpha men aren't diplomatic? Balanced Alpha men are masters at diplomacy. I know one personally and I am mastering diplomacy myself and I would consider myself more A than B.

I think I can agree to disagree on this one.

prettyfaceANB, I posted about Obama's diplomacy. This may sound contradictory but I do agree with you that alpha males are masters of diplomacy. Hear me out... I believe that a distinction between an alpha and beta male can made based on the different motivations behind the diplomacy of each man-type .

An alpha male would finely tune his diplomatic skill because he views it as a tool necessary for achievement during networking, making deals, etc. The furtherance of his goals = his ultimate motivation for diplomacy.

A beta male's approach would be different because he has a natural leaning toward more humanitarian pursuits - this being based on his natural tendency toward peace and contentment above status, career, money. His ultimate motivation = desire to create harmony of relationships.

Thus the reason why many betas are more attuned to feelings and alphas are not. They're just wired differently... alphas for consistency of logic and ambition... betas for consistency of feeling and community.

This is not to say that I think that an alpha is a ravenous brute and a beta is a sentimental no-spine. There are crazies and there are well-adjusted folks. I just think their natural tendencies are different. And that's fine.

I'm a couch psychologist... please comment

I'm not saying it's bad to like Alphas. But the truth is, I feel that Alpha males seem to get so much unncessary shine in life only because they are more visible than Beta males. If you look at this thread, it's evident where most women will fall. More often than not, Beta males receive so much disdain.
[edited4space]

@ all of your post. Betas were belittled a tad bit in the beginning but it has mellowed out. The OP stated a particular preference in the title. . . so whether or not the following is an accurate assumption, I'll attribute the overabundant alpha admiration to bias (and the beta lover being scared to post for fear of LHCF wrathful ridicule ).

And in response to what I've quoted above, I think it's within most of us (hetero) women to find the alpha sexy.
I mean, that's feminine nature across the board of humanity and even when you look at animal species (I'm not calling humans animals although if you think we are animals that's cool too <-- OT: see that type of behavior I just displayed? verrrry non-alpha - I value harmony over making a point). It's probably part of the reason why some women like thugs and dominant-to-a-detriment men. Insecure, thug-loving women (I'm not saying that a woman who likes alphas is automatically secure) probably see gun totin', foul mouthed, pushin' and shovin', wrecklessly territorial behavior as protective (do alpha animals not protect the females of their pack?).

Of course, all alpha males aren't like thugs, and many if not most of thugs are soft, pudgy hearted betas (or reasonable alphas) who feel they have to be extraordinarily aggressive to stay alive.

Basically, to end my super long post, many women like a man that is A MAN (conjure up your stereotypes and typical gender roles if you'd like) ... and that alpha screams MAN!

 

[barbiesocialite]

@barbiesocialite

I disagree that alpha men prefer alpha women. It makes more sense that they would prefer a wife with femininity, which would compliment their alpha-ness (femininity is diametrically opposed to alpha female-ness IMO - how can the two not be in opposition if one of the defining aspects of an alpha is machismo). I can see an alpha man mandating that his wife values his career goals over her own (an alpha woman would not comply).

An alpha man may desire a woman (girlfriend or wife) of suitable intelligence / education in a respectable field (not necessarily a genius, but a woman who can provide compatibility and conversation), but they do not necessarily desire what I would think of as an alpha female (someone so driven and devoted to her career like Janet Jackson's character in For Colored Girls).

Honestly, I think that alpha females prefer alpha males more often than alpha males prefer alpha females.

Also, cosign everyone else who is confused about Barack. His status is ALPHA, but his personality doesn't appear to be...

I stated upthread that what establishes alphaness in women is different than defines alphaness in men:

for purposes of this thread does/doesn't educational and career obtainment or personal/familial income matter in the final assessment?

Personally, I don't consider certain men/women alphas unless they have reached the highest level of their desired occupation.

As far as alpha males marrying alpha females goes, I do believe most alpha males marry alpha females but it is the extent of her beauty and femininity that establishes her alphasness to most males in my observation and my personal experience. Whereas with males it's his educational obtainment, career status, and income or familial financial pedigree that defines masculine alphaness...

There is a double standard.The prototype alpha female that exemplifies and sets the standard for everything that is means to be woman is determined by her beauty and femininity. References to a female being the ultimate woman usually means = trophy/stepford wives. Career and money don't define alpha in women like it does in men. Most alpha males do prefer trophy or stepford-esque wives.


I also agree with nicola.kirwan 's post:

I don't think alpha-femaleness is defined by a woman's career ambitions. Like in the examples from How to Marry a Millionaire, all three women, including Becall's character, were fashion models living off of the generosity of rich men. Today, we would assume that such a woman would necessarily be a ditz, but that wasn't the case at all, and Becall is probably prototypical of alpha femaleness.

I think it's about the way a woman carries herself, and the degree to which she maintains her own personal standards. Does she simply go along to get along, or is she always true to her own principles? Are her expectations easy to meet, or do they require more effort? Is she self-controlled and independent, with a firm grasp on her emotions?

On this level, I think there is a similarity between the alpha female and the alpha male. They may not be pursuing the same thing, but they go after their respective pursuits with the same attitude. A couple that typifies this is Jack Doneghy and Avery on 30 Rock.

 

[Katherina]

I don't think alpha-femaleness is defined by a woman's career ambitions. Like in the examples from How to Marry a Millionaire, all three women, including Becall's character, were fashion models living off of the generosity of rich men. Today, we would assume that such a woman would necessarily be a ditz, but that wasn't the case at all, and Becall is probably prototypical of alpha femaleness.

I think it's about the way a woman carries herself, and the degree to which she maintains her own personal standards. Does she simply go along to get along, or is she always true to her own principles? Are her expectations easy to meet, or do they require more effort? Is she self-controlled and independent, with a firm grasp on her emotions?

On this level, I think there is a similarity between the alpha female and the alpha male. They may not be pursuing the same thing, but they go after their respective pursuits with the same attitude. A couple that typifies this is Jack Doneghy and Avery on 30 Rock.

Also, I think what principally distinguishes an alpha male from a beta male is that an alpha male acts based on his own internal compass, wherever it may point. Beta males will conform to what is expected of them by others. I think it's perfectly possible for an alpha male to be devoted to his family--but if he is, it is because he has concluded that devotion to family is a principle that is important. What changes such a man makes are due to his own internal principles. I think that beta males are much more prone to change because of external opinions and pressures and to be what others expect them to be.

I have a "colleague" who I think probably typifies the best of what one can find of a beta. He's really a terrific and accomplished guy. Still, it's clear that his relationships and leadership style is based wholly on consensus, multilateral decisionmaking, championing the rights of women, and making sure no one gets overlooked. It works and I think that his gf has done well. At the same time, I think these traits only work as well as they do today because women don't have to actually depend so much on men. If you had to really depend on his career, on his decisionmaking, etc., then I'm sure the more "take charge" approach would be more attractive because you'd want the security of knowing that your husband will compete in the world and come out on top. You'd also want to know that he had the ability to withstand pressure and handle having to be the one to carry the family. If you were farmers and this year's crop failed, you'd want the man who could figure out the solution and make the snap judgments necessary to survive, not the one who's going to ask you how you feel about it. I think that men in general used to be socialized to be more alpha-ish (whether or not they were actually #1), but beta is rising today.

I agree with you totally that an alpha female is not determined solely on career ambitions. However, my opinion does contrast yours in that I regard "alpha" as a pretty constant energy - a more masculine (OT: gender roles be damned) energy - whether alpha XX or alpha XY and to me it seems that many women (not all) in particular high-powered positions (partnered lawyers, CEOs who've fought to top positions of cutthroat companies) display that type of energy more often than those in traditionally pink collar jobs (nurses, teachers, nannies).

I do not agree with the definition in the second paragraph because to me it gives a description for any well-balanced, emotionally stable woman. If that describes an alpha woman, is a beta woman a pushover?

I agree with your third paragraph that the two genders have a similar attitude of alpha-ness.

I read your fourth paragraph just now and basically we just define alpha and beta differently. At this point we need Merriam-Webster to step in, dangit! Your description of beta males is one that would not make for a suitable mate - changeable with the wind and with others' opinions, no strong convictions. Pushover comes to mind again for beta male as it did with female. Your description of alpha males = strong moral character unchangeable by others because it is based on internal principles. I totally disagree with this dissection. I'm not able to go into it or the fifth paragraph right now (time!). I just don't have time!

I'll say this. I don't agree with what I've read in this post that a beta person is a pushover with no concrete morals or convictions. A man of either type who takes charge (emergency or not) without sincerely considering others' opinions before making those decisions (that may affect a community, corporation, or country) puts up a false front of masculinity based in his belief (known or unbeknownst to him) that his entitlement of position, status, or gender trumps the lesser folks... All of that = bad husband and bad man. A man who is able to consider others' opinions and make a well-informed decision is emotionally mature and balanced. Aight... g2g but will be back

 

[Katherina]

I stated upthread that what establishes alphaness in women is different than defines alphaness in men:




There is a double standard.The prototype alpha female that exemplifies and sets the standard for everything that is means to be woman is determined by her beauty and femininity. References to a female being the ultimate woman usually means = trophy/stepford wives. Career and money don't define alpha in women like it does in men. Most alpha males do prefer trophy or stepford-esque wives.


I also agree with nicola.kirwan 's post:

Okay, thanks for responding because I now see the origin of our diverging POVs. Before I posted earlier, I saw that you discussed alpha men liking youth&beauty AND alpha men liking alpha women. That confused me because I define alpha women differently than you define them: you see alpha women as young&beautiful, whereas I see an alpha woman as having traits similar to that of alpha man.

ETA prettyfaceANB wasn't trying to jack yo' thread, girl! I'll calm with the post-novellas. True LHCF style - a thread does what it wills!

 

[BeautifulFlower]

^^^It's quite alright. Good conversation though. I just hope no one remains offended if they have a B or A or G or whatever. Like I said, Love who you want and makes you happy.

 

[aribell]

I do not agree with the definition in the second paragraph because to me it gives a description for any well-balanced, emotionally stable woman. If that describes an alpha woman, is a beta woman a pushover?

...

I read your fourth paragraph just now and basically we just define alpha and beta differently. At this point we need Merriam-Webster to step in, dangit! Your description of beta males is one that would not make for a suitable mate - changeable with the wind and with others' opinions, no strong convictions. Pushover comes to mind again for beta male as it did with female. Your description of alpha males = strong moral character unchangeable by others because it is based on internal principles. I totally disagree with this dissection. I'm not able to go into it or the fifth paragraph right now (time!). I just don't have time!

I'll say this. I don't agree with what I've read in this post that a beta person is a pushover with no concrete morals or convictions. A man of either type who takes charge (emergency or not) without sincerely considering others' opinions before making those decisions (that may affect a community, corporation, or country) puts up a false front of masculinity based in his belief (known or unbeknownst to him) that his entitlement of position, status, or gender trumps the lesser folks... All of that = bad husband and bad man. A man who is able to consider others' opinions and make a well-informed decision is emotionally mature and balanced. Aight... g2g but will be back

So, I'd first say that alpha and beta are purely abstractions. I don't have any loyalty to the concept of "alpha" or "beta", so I don't think it's offensive to say that one is less than or greater than the other. Besides, I see a lot more room for "alpha" to manifest itself in different ways than other people might. I would say, though, that regarding the internal v. external distinction, to pay attention to external influences doesn't mean that a person doesn't have morals, it means that they will often make decisions based on what other people want and expect. That doesn't mean that they'll do something evil because someone asks them to! It means that generally, they will pay attention to external influences. And being internally motivated doesn't automatically mean that someone makes the right choices, it means that they do whatever it is they deem best. Nor does it mean that the choices are selfishly motivated, only that they aren't motivated by a desire to please. It is very possible to do altruistic things on an internal, principled basis.

I make the distinction there because I think it forms the foundation for how the rest of the traits of alpha and beta end up manifesting themselves and it makes sense of their respective weaknesses. An alpha who hasn't incorporated respect of women or family devotion into his internal framework will live life hurting those closest to him. A beta who prizes consensus building may end up being ineffective when hard decisions must be made, or grappling with insecurity when others don't approve, or yes, conforming to whatever is currently "in" for a man to do and be.

In really thinking about it, everyone likes to believe that they exemplify high standards, uncompromising morals, independence, etc. But those traits are not at all possessed by all. Many (and probably most) people will recognize them as ideals without actually holding themselves to them in an uncompromising fashion. In the example of women, we compromise and lower our standards all the time for whatever reason. Or, the standards aren't that high in the first place. We slack on personal standards. And it's precisely on these points that women get played (most likely by an alpha male). The question of whether an alpha male can be a good husband, then, would be yes, so long as he's not able to run roughshod over the woman in question. But that takes perfecting those traits mentioned above.

 

[Thiends]

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alpha-male-vs-beta-male/

The author of this blog is a fool, as are his readers. I wish a ninja would be staring off into space and leaving me to cuddle his back when I wanted to show affection.
:hardslap:
Last one who tried that with me was left looking wild-eyed after I dropped his behind without warning and took myself over to a real man who knew how to focus in his woman. I don't care if he's alpha, beta, or an omega-3 fatty acid; Any man who wants to hang with me had best know how put his arms around a sista and show he knows the good thing he's found. And can I say how much I loathe creatures who write stuff like this:

Most of the time when I put my head on husband’s shoulder like the back couple and look up at him, he turns his head regally, vaguely annoyed and says “what do you want, little girl?” which sends me into fits of undignified giggles.

ALWAYS make her come to you , she wants to work for your love

I didn't mind the first paragraph, but the line in bold is some low self-esteem foolery. How lacking in self-respect some women are and then they have the nerve to go speaking for the gender. Make her come to you? Where in nature do we see women performing mating dances for men's benefit? Women like this are responsible for the bass ackwards behavior of men nowadays who expect women to woo them.

 

[Choclatcotton]

That Roisy guy is sick minded, saying "Women at 35yrs have reached their expiration date?" What a loser way of thinking

 

[Incognitus]

I've read Roissy's blogs and find them both depressing and offensive with a bit of truth thrown in to keep his audience lapping up his diatribe. Here is what he thinks of Black women. WHOA at the comments from White men regarding Black women. :

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/its-easy-to-identify-a-slut/

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/interracial-loving/

I checked out that blog....interesting. Anyhow, I found one of the interracial dating comments interesting:

i had a white male friend who dated black women almost exclusively…he eventually …admitted that he felt less pressure from them and felt like they expected “less” of him…as in less of his time, energy, money….no pressure to be exceedingly ambitious at the office… with the pressure off…he had more fun…
anyway…thats what he told me….
and oh yeah… the sex was awsome…
xoxo

I'd love to hear ladies comment on this...
​

 

[RegaLady]

^^^It's quite alright. Good conversation though. I just hope no one remains offended if they have a B or A or G or whatever. Like I said, Love who you want and makes you happy.

I don't think anyone is getting offended its just that some definitions get misconscrued(sp). I think there is a perception about a particular trait ina person and it seems that one cannot define it without relation to its 'other'. So in order for people to try to define what an alpha male is, they define it what it is not and that is a beta male. However, as we are seeing here, the negative connotations of the beta male are not accurate and their traits are just as valuable as an alpha male's.

For me personally, I never went into marraige looking for a type. I knew what I was attracted to, and what mattered to me wasn't some important looking man, but a man who was a great provider and was able to assist me in life in getting to where ever we needed to be. If he was an alpha male, fine, a beta male, okay.