Married and never divorced: Big deal or not?

[FlowerHair]

Yeah, it's a big deal.
He's married. erplexed

 

[Natasha009]

I respectfully disagree. A marriage is a contract, when both parties enter into and agree on the contract terms it is binding unless some fraud is involved or a person is not of legal age to enter into a contract. A marriage is a marriage is a marriage.

So by your standards, if a person takes out a loan in the USA and signs the paperwork in the USA and then moves to another country, that loan is no longer valid? The person doesn't have to repay? The debt is just wiped out? Me thinks not. You would get laughed out of court on that one. "Your honor, I took out a loan in the US and since I moved to Zaire, I don't owe the money. I didn't take out a loan in Zaire." A loan is a contract, an agreement between two parties that are in agreement, when you sign the promissary note.

The reason why I am so passionate about this is because I was married in the Bahama's and I had to set a few peeps straight for questioning the validity of my marriage since we live in the US.

No offense, but I don't know the rules for the Bahamas and US marriages, which is why I said NOT NECCESARILY true. I don't know every single countries rules, I only know what pertains to me. Every country doesn't have the same rules, so people questioning the validity of your marriage in the Bahamas really doesn't pertain to what I was saying. The point is you have to find out the rules for each place, you can't assume there the same all over. If I was marrying another US citizen in Germany, then my marriage would be valid in the US and germany and the whole world (just a destination wedding). But because I'm a US citizen and he's a German Citizen, we have to do a bunch of paperwork to make it legal in both places. To the rest of the world of course we're married, but legally, for our two countries, we need paperwork.

As far as the loan situation, I think you missed my point entirely. Of course the loan is still valid (in the US). But is the goverment of Zaire going to garnish it from your wages? Are they going to throw you in jail for not paying it? I don't even see it going to a Zaire court, it's not really there problem if you owe an american bank some money. Now the moment you step foot in the US (for the rest of your life), you can bet for sure they're going to try and get you for that money. If you go to court in the US, of course that won't be an excuse! You legally owe the money.

The whole loan situation thing is just so off topic from marriage laws in different countries, its a completely different scenario. But there are plenty of interesting articles out there about how when the economy went bad, some people who defaulted on their student loans ran to different countries to be able to work and avoid legal repurcussions (for the time being). Do some countries care if they have our murderers? No. So why would they care if they have people who have failed to pay a loan??

 

[yokoyokogirl]

I think some of your dating problems really are coming from living in Tokyo. You remind me of the pretty, successful women who live in Atlanta, DC, NYC. In a great place for your career, but the wrong place for romance. If I were you I would think long and hard about staying in Tokyo long-term. Time flies by quickly and it is easy to look up and you are 38 with this great job, cool friends, and no husband and kids. Just a thought...

It's funny because this is the same thing that some of my friends and family back home have mentioned. I've thought about that, but I know several beautiful, smart, successful women back home who can't find or keep a good man. (And several on this site as well.) I can't help but wonder if it's me living abroad or just men all over the world...

 

[firecracker]

And I asked why he didn't divorce before moving back to Japan and he said he didn't know how those things worked, but he asked his parents here and they said he wasn't legally married in Japan.

I think maybe he just didn't go about the right way of getting info and since it hasn't affected his day to day life here, he hasn't cared.

What say you ladies?

Sounds like the Nigerians, Bangy's etc that are married back home and married or dating in the States. I wouldn't play into this type of bs from an American let alone a nonAmerican. Why knowingly participate in a soap opera? I would be grateful for his honesty this early in the dating game.
People are strange around the world but please don't do the dumb bs my parents did. Married actively 25 plus years but separated dating others for damn near 25 more years til my Dad's death. Girlfriend feeling left out in the funeral and financial setting made me wanna cry.
Tell him to handle his business then come back to see ya!

 

[Bunny77]

To be honest, I'm trying to trust ppl more--cause usually I take everything with a grain of salt. But he could either be in the situation like Justkiya stated above (which is what I was thinking at first) and it is hard to get divorced if you both live abroad--I had the hardest time doing it myself.

However it could show that he doesn't follow through also--which might show more to his personality.

Or he could be totally lying and have some estranged wife someplace in America. I just wish it was easier to tell liars from honest ppl!

I'm going to give a few more details to why I think he might be honest:

-he went with me to immigration to do some paperwork, even though he didn't have to

-he told me where he works (a famous condo company in Tokyo) and calls me from work there sometimes

-he calls me from his house also (he lives with his parents--very common for single men in Japan)

-I told him that any man, I seriously date has to get STD/HIV tested with me before physical stuff happens--he said no prob and asked if we can go to the clinic together.

-On the third date, he told me about the marriage thing without me asking

Ok not sure if that means anything, but what do you all think?

FYI-I've been divorced myself, but don't usually tell ppl about that til after a few dates.

Two things...

I think people in general equate honesty and trustworthiness (that's a word, right?). From what you're saying here, this man is very honest. He's telling you early on what he's about. It's funny because I find that men in general are a lot more honest than we give them credit for -- they tell us a LOT in the beginning, but we don't always listen... Or if we listen, we don't use the information wisely.

Now, just because this man is honest doesn't mean you should trust him. Say you two became serious (just for example) and you started talking about the future. This is when he could easily bust out the, "Yeah I see us having something here, but I'm still married and need to figure out what to do next."

Bam. You're stuck. You can't say boo because he TOLD you he was married and you proceeded to get involved. On a more common level, it's like those men who say from the beginning that they don't want a relationship, but the women stick around anyway. The women eventually get upset, and then dude can always fall back on his "honest" statement that he didn't want a relationship.

As for trust, while it's good that you want to be more trusting of men in general, I am not someone who believes in extending trust to folks just on principle. I'm not suspicious, but I'm not just going to trust someone I barely know just because... Why would anyone do that? Trust is earned... Get to know someone with a blank slate, watch their behavior and see if they prove themselves worhty to be trusted.

Honestly, I can't see why someone would extend trust to a man who couldn't be bothered to get a divorce from his wife. Be glad he was honest about his situation, but it's that very same situation that makes him unworthy of one's trust, IMO.

 

[deltagyrl]

Eh, my mind has really changed about all of these type situations over the past year. Yeah, 5 years is a long time to not have filed but maybe, as someone upthread pointed out, he didn't really have a reason to as it didn't affect his day-to-day.

If he wants to be with you, he needs to file. Period. I know lots of people who separate and it takes a year or so to finally file...

Good luck, I don't think this is a deal-breaker if he files now.

 

[yokoyokogirl]

I had a talk with him about this and he swore up and down it was simply because "it was too troublesome". He explained that he asked his "wife' to do it, five years ago, when she told him she was marrying another Japanese man and she replied "You go back to the states so you do it." (I'm pretty sure her new hubby has no idea about all this)

But he had only been back to the US once and to FL/ATL for work related stuff. He said he tried to get a layover stop in Alabama so he could go to the Courthouse there but it wasn't possible. And he swears he just hasn't had time to travel to the States or it wasn't important b/c he never thought he'd go back. He showed me his koseki (family registry)once more and it is only him and his mom and dad listed...unless he got mad creative, went to an OfficeMax and made a new one...

Then he added now that he's seen how it has "affected" me, he wants to clear it up. I simply told him he can probably do it online and maybe doesn't even have to go back to the States for that. Today he asked me to look over the letter he wrote to the Clerk of Courts there...

I'm glad he's going to clear this up, but one of my friends said his delay in doing this could be a sign of his character...

 

[Sasha299]

So by your standards, if a person takes out a loan in the USA and signs the paperwork in the USA and then moves to another country, that loan is no longer valid? The person doesn't have to repay? The debt is just wiped out? Me thinks not. You would get laughed out of court on that one. "Your honor, I took out a loan in the US and since I moved to Zaire, I don't owe the money. I didn't take out a loan in Zaire." A loan is a contract, an agreement between two parties that are in agreement, when you sign the promissary note.

Actually you are incorrect. That is why many banks to not give loans to foreign nationals. In the US the debt exists but we cannot chase the debtor down to there original country and demand that they pay us. If the foreign country is amiable we can ask them to collect the debt but only if the lender has enough push to do so - most banks do not have enough push unless they are in multiple countries eg Bank of Nova Scotia where your debt to BONS is valid where ever they have offices - Canada, US, WI, etc.

 

[Sasha299]

I would not say its a sign of his character but a cultural thing. If he has been given advice that his marriage is not legal in Japan then he would assume its not legal (actually does the US have the ability to legalize marriage of 2 people not subject to their laws? something to think about).


Actually did a search on USCIS found this "If the marriage is between two non-US citizens, the marriage must be officially recognized in the home country in order for it to be valid. Foreigners (non-U.S. citizens) that get married to each other in the United States do not obtain a Green Card, U.S. citizenship, or any kind of immigration status or benefit."


So if its not recognized in Japan, since they were 2 foreigners at the time it is not valid and they do not technically need to be divorced. THIS may be the advice that he was given.

 

[ThickHair]

I would not say its a sign of his character but a cultural thing. If he has been given advice that his marriage is not legal in Japan then he would assume its not legal (actually does the US have the ability to legalize marriage of 2 people not subject to their laws? something to think about).


Actually did a search on USCIS found this "If the marriage is between two non-US citizens, the marriage must be officially recognized in the home country in order for it to be valid. Foreigners (non-U.S. citizens) that get married to each other in the United States do not obtain a Green Card, U.S. citizenship, or any kind of immigration status or benefit."


So if its not recognized in Japan, since they were 2 foreigners at the time it is not valid and they do not technically need to be divorced. THIS may be the advice that he was given.

But he didn't know this, he just told her they weren't divorce. It seems he didn't do any investigation or anything. I think it is going to come to a point when he just won't even mention the marriage anymore.

 

[firecracker]

He still needs to be sure he isn't officially married in the States not simply assume. All kinds of things could happen down the line if she gets serious with this guy.

 

[dannie]

I would not say its a sign of his character but a cultural thing. If he has been given advice that his marriage is not legal in Japan then he would assume its not legal (actually does the US have the ability to legalize marriage of 2 people not subject to their laws? something to think about).


Actually did a search on USCIS found this "If the marriage is between two non-US citizens, the marriage must be officially recognized in the home country in order for it to be valid. Foreigners (non-U.S. citizens) that get married to each other in the United States do not obtain a Green Card, U.S. citizenship, or any kind of immigration status or benefit."


So if its not recognized in Japan, since they were 2 foreigners at the time it is not valid and they do not technically need to be divorced. THIS may be the advice that he was given.

Yeah that makes sense. They arent US citizens. Dont they need the marriage to be recognized in the country they have citizenship for it to be legal?

 

[Aveena]

Nevermind........