Her 4b is not MY 4b ....hair type

[Nonie]

Haven't read the whole thread but my 4B is like other 4Bs I've seen. However, contrary to popular opinion, my 4B does have a curl pattern, only it's one that is rarely seen because of how I manipulate my hair to style. Also, because the curls/coils are so tiny, en masse it looks like wool.

There was a time I swore that my hair was no different from steel wool, but in the few years I've been on this site, I have seen its many faces (Oh the versatility of our hair!) and discovered that it really is very soft, even when it doesn't have the shine or appearance of a newborn's hair. So now when I describe it as resembling wool, I now mean sheep's wool and not the steel wool I used to think it was.

I undid a few of my extension braids and took a pic with my cell phone of my 4B hair. I hope I can get someone to take a better one another time, but for now, here goes:

Doesn't look curly, does it? Yet I swear up and down that my hair is made of tiny little curls. And yes it is 4B. Why the absence of curls? That hair's been in braids so it's been bent and twisted this way and that way so that its true shape isn't obvious.

Rather than concern oneself with type, I think one would do well to just figure out what one's hair likes, instead of getting worked up because another's definition differs from one's own. What if our hair types were like of a spectrum of light, so that there are not distinct types, but rather a continuous trend from coarse to soft, or straight to curly...so that depending on where you head falls, you're that texture and someone a nanometer next to you has hair that looks like yours but that behaves a little different coz of that minimal difference in position on the spectrum?

I mean, really, why do we spend so much time worrying or fussing about types?

 

[ebonylocs]

Think of it this way. We know how fine and straight hair looks. And then there is fine and curly hair. Usually this is with White people. But then some people can have fine and medium hair, like Asians. And then some of us can have thick hair and coarse hair. That's what people would call the "bad" hair or nappy hair

I don't know if I agree. I mean there are three things going on here: Texture, the thickness of each individual strand, and the density of the hair (how many strands you have per square inch).

I think most people of African descent have *relatively* thin strands - less cuticle layers to allow the hair to bend, as opposed to say Asian people, who have straight, thick strands. My hair is as dense as hell, and it's quite kinky and tangly and can be rough to the touch, but the strands are thin, which makes the hair feel soft when it's well moisturised. But I still have 4B hair. I know it's not 4A because it doesn't have that touch of smoothness / moistness that you see say at the front of rabs77 hair or at sylver's roots at the front. My hair dreads like mad.

The size of the strands makes a difference. There are some people with 4B hair whose regimen I can't follow because my *strands* are super-thin, while theirs are thick. E.g. my hair could not survive heat usage, daily combing, and the strands are wrecked when it's relaxed super straight.

Most of the strands of my hair are very thin and quite fragile. But I have a whole lot of them

Yeah, me too. DSylla, I was just about to post that you're my hair (and chin) twin, but my strands are thinner and more fragile than yours. And despite my thin strands, I can NOT get a comb through my hair on *most* days, esp. when I was texlaxed, and now that I have a lot of new growth. Actually, having dense hair with thin strands probably makes it worse, because the contrast between my wooly natural hair at the roots, and the straightened hair is that much greater.

 

[glamazon386]

I agree with the if your hair has curls it's not 4b statement. It's really not that hard. And people should go by what the majority of their hair is. Another thing I think factors in is that a lot of people are assuming that because their hair is coarse it must be 4b. My hair has never been coarse my whole life but that doesn't mean I'm not a 4.

 

[santwon]

Then...what are the tiny spirally people?

 

[destiny616]

Then...what are the tiny spirally people?

4A

.......................

 

[santwon]

Thanks! I guess I have to join the 3 textures club then.

All those protective styles man... I haven't washed my hair loose, airdried and inspected it with no products in...heck, EVER I don't think.

ETA: 3 textures as in three types of textures, not type 3. Though, I have some of that too apparently. Lawd hammercy. Hair typing is CIRRUS!!

 

[Kay.Dee]

Nonie
Your hair sounds exactly like mine, except my hair is coarse. Absolutely tiny springs everywhere if you look closely, but from a normal distance you wouldn't know. And my shrinkage is crazy.
As soon as I add product to my hair they are gone, but come back later with basically little or no manipulation (even though I don't want them to) That's why I hesitate to say 4a because I really can't define these coils no matter what, and seeing other 4a pics and taking advice I think my haircare practices fit better with someone who has 4b hair.
Most 4as can define their curls, and I can't.
I do agree about not being too concerned with hair types, but sometimes it helps me decide what I can do to avoid any possible disasters!

even though these were taken at diff times, you get the idea
close up

 

[AtlantaJJ]

I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.

That clears it up for me! Thanks

 

[Kurlee]

That clears it up for me! Thanks

no prob

 

[Nonie]

Then...what are the tiny spirally people?

Santwon, that TO ME is 4B; those are the "curls" I was referring to when I said my 4B has coils/curls. You see the hair I just posted above? That is the same hair all w/o products seen below. I might add that I don't have varying textures. My hair is the same texture all through:

Wet but finger-combed:

Completely airdried:

Now I can't do WNGs coz I'm terrified of the detangling I'd have to do later. But for the sake of experimenting, I CW'd then applied a curl product. Hated how it felt so washed it off and CW'd again. Not sure how many time I repeated the CWs. This time I didn't finger comb :crazy: but just let my hair do its thang. And just as I expected, I got this:

Here's another picture of the above section:

If I plait my hair and airdry (same area of my hair as above), this is what it looks like (and really this is how it mostly looks like coz I never let my hair get wet or airdry unless it's braided):

I apologize for the poor quality of the picture but that was taken when I made that vid showing how easy 4B hair is to comb when drenched w/ conditioner and I didn't have a good camera then. But below is a photo of the back of my hair that I undid earlier and finger-combed so the strands are together the way they would have been if I had made one single plait as in the case above. That's generally the appearance of my hair when airdried in plaits.

Another view of my dry hair after it's been plaited:

Why the difference? Because when I braid my hair, or brush it, I force the little circles to be stretched and this braiding action causes the circular curls to be bent different ways as well. Hence the shapeless look of strands I get that look like they have no form.

Now if I do two strand twists where the two strands are small enough that their curving/wrapping around each other has a circumference about as small as the spirals of my own hair, then the ends take on the spiral shape after a few washes and no manipulation (WNG?) I don't use leave-in products so all the photos you are seeing here are of hair completely rinsed then ACV rinsed and left bare.

Another view of twist ends:

When I wear my hair out, I use S Curl to make it easy to comb and I prefer my hair combed out into a fluffy afro, rather than left to its own devices. And whenever I next wear my hair in an afro puff, I will try to take a clearer pic with my recently acquired better cam so you can see how beautiful and perfectly circular my tiny 4B spirals are.

This pic doesn't do the spirals any justice thanks to a lousy cam:

 

[Nonie]

Nonie
Your hair sounds exactly like mine, except my hair is coarse. Absolutely tiny springs everywhere if you look closely, but from a normal distance you wouldn't know. And my shrinkage is crazy.
As soon as I add product to my hair they are gone, but come back later with basically little or no manipulation (even though I don't want them to) That's why I hesitate to say 4a because I really can't define these coils no matter what, and seeing other 4a pics and taking advice I think my haircare practices fit better with someone who has 4b hair.
Most 4as can define their curls, and I can't.
I do agree about not being too concerned with hair types, but sometimes it helps me decide what I can do to avoid any possible disasters!

even though these were taken at diff times, you get the idea
close up

My hair felt coarse when I used products that make hair soft for other folks. Shea butter, aloe, oils...big no-no for me. Hair felt good immediately on application but would turn into a hard coarse mass that felt crunchy. Since I started to focus more on moisturizing the hair strands on the inside (DCing) and less on the outside (baggying for that), my hair took on a whole new softness I never knew.

I took the picture below in 2004. I'd washed my hair, conditioned and ACV'd. I think at this time I might've been spritzing my hair with a solution of EOs, glycerin, jojoba, ACV and distilled water. I also loved serums to seal in the spritz. But later took the serum out coz I couldn't baggy with them or my scalp would itch something awful. Anyway, the reason I love this picture is because it was one of the first times I saw my hair in a different light. The softness... The cute spirals... It might be the day I fell madly in love w/ my hair.

Also the shrinkage you mention is the story of my life. I just don't let my hair get that way, or I'd never be able to deal with it. I keep it braided when wetting it and only undo it when dry. I also never sleep without braiding my hair for the night, even when I wear it out. And that helps lessen the shrinkage even though I usually have S Curl on it. And combing it is always so easy if I baggy in braids and S Curl.

Oh and another thing I learned only recently was what you all mean by "definition". To me definition just means having a definite pattern that is uniform. So when I would say 4B hair has definition, I would be referring to the fact that it has a uniform pattern of circular spirals that are too light to hang like type 3 curls do so instead fluff out, but nonetheless, each strand has a uniform coil pattern that looks exactly like the one next to it. The size of the spirals makes it really hard for the strands to intertwine when we comb, but rather they just separate so that the outsides of each coil touches the next one causing them to spread out (Behold the afro!). Type 3 hair curls are big and the strands probably thicker or heavier (?) and so even when you comb, the strands' big C shapes make it easy for the hairs to cup each other in a way that stands out. So just because out hair doesn't fall into obvious tubular shapes that are visible to the naked eye, doesn't mean that the shape isn't there.

 

[janet]

Nonie your hair is so pretty!

 

[Kay.Dee]

Thanks nonie, hopefully I'll have some success with my hair after take out braids, hopefully I can get mine to stop revolting against me . Your hair is awesome and I think we may have similar hair types, do you have an album?

 

[classi123]

Ok.


So I see plenty of sistas on here saying that they are 4b. In my mind, IMO, 4b hair is very coarse hair. To ME, coarse hair does not have a defined curl or wave pattern. TO ME, 4b hair is very cottony like in that you cannot deterimine any kind of pattern to it when looking at how the hairs loop around. It is not like small pen springs or loose roller waves. AT LEAST MY 4B HAIR DOES NOT!

Am I wrong?

I am asking because I have a patch of 4b in the back of my head that makes it hella hard to stretch. All the CW and pooing, oooing and ahhing over it will not allow me to get a comb through it come 8 weeks without MAJOR breakage. That section does not wave up. It does not curl up. Nada. It is HELLA DRY and those bad boys are THE driest hairs on my entire body especially as I stretch.

I am *venting* because several sistas on here will say that they are 4b. Cool. I am then reading all their advice about what products to use when stretching that never work for me, and how to best comb through, and how to stretch, yada, yada.

Fast forward.

Eight months later when they decide to BC because they had the best time stretching with no breakage and then you see their natural hair.

All nicely coiled and wavy, etc. All the while, I'm thinking...no she didn't! This chick had me thinking I could strecth 50+ weeks just by using a dime size amount of conditioner every two weeks and her hair is NATURALLY curly (and not coarse!).

So....am I beyond 4b then? Who on here is a TRUE 4b hair type if I am right? Does anyone understand what I am trying to say?!?!??!

I feel the same exact way!!! Thanks for this post!!

 

[Nonie]

I think people just have a hard time understanding what 4b is. Its a matter of perception. If you have curly hair then you are not 4b. 2-4a are curly hair types and 1abc and 4b are not. I never understood the confusion.

It is because 4B has so many faces that there's confusion.

I am 100% 4B. My hair usually looks like it has no curl to it because if I allowed my hair to do its thang and manifest its true structure, I'd not be able to deal with it. The tiny spirals would wrap around each other and shrinkage would mean I'd have a heck of a time trying to separate the strands. So the MO is to keep my hair somewhat in a stretched state so the strands can stay separate and parallel instead of curled up into a compact structure resembling a doormat. And it is the existence of tiny curls that would make it behave the way I describe. I mean, no one would call me a 2 or 3 or even 4A, could they?

But even in this small section you can see what a braid-out on 4B hair looks like. The base just looks like what most people believe 4B to be: woolly, no clear definition. But look at the part that was the actual braid in the big plait I posted earlier. Check out the waves of the braided-out section! (This is the versatility of 4B hair that I keep raving about.) This is the very same section that looked like the pic below last night before I put it in a big braid for the night:

BTW my hair is completely dry and bare in both these pictures. I last washed it on Sunday (EGADS! Time to wash again ) and no product (moisturizer or styling agent) was applied to it after the wash.

Now if I were to wet it and let it airdry--I'm not even talking about conditioning or shampooing. Just wet it and of course finger comb and leave well alone, you would see it turn into these tiny little circular curls/spirals:

Behold the curls of 4B hair!

 

[Neith]

I don't agree that 4b has NO curl.

Hair only really comes from straight to curly. Wavy hair is just very loosely curled hair. Kinky is hair is VERY curly hair.

If it's not curly, then what is it? It sure isn't straight or wavy. "Frizz" is not a curl pattern. Kinkyness is a question of the actual texture (level of coarseness) and not JUST curl pattern. which is why you can have a highly defined 4a and a less "perfectly" defined 4a like mine for example.

Now 4b is not just devoid of any type of curl pattern. It just doesn't "clump" like 4a does. It also tends to be very coarse.
​

 

[Nonie]

I think what makes hair coarse isn't its curl pattern so that the tight curls of 4B would mean it's coarse. What makes hair coarse is the size of the strands. My hair is very fine (thin strands) and it is very soft indeed, even though it doesn't look it. I don't put anything on it and yet people who have been curious and reached out to touch it remark on how soft it is. Now I know it feels even softer when I apply something to it like S Curl.

My hubby has 3C/4A hair and it feels coarser than my hair. His strands are very thick though and very dark.

ETA: hubby's hair

 

[dcprdiva]

Hmm... this post has me rethinking my hair type. I know i'm 4B in the middle - which is why i can't stretch too long. Hair is tooooo coarse in the middle and is the driest part of my hair. The edges are 4a.

 

[ManeVixen]

I am definitely 4b with a little 4a thrown in (it's time for me to review that double chin tightener thread )

4b signing in. Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.

That is exactly what my hair looks like. When anyone tells me their regimen and I know there hair type is different I am ALWAYS prepared to change the amount of product.

When I had a relaxer I would use ALL of the product and kept it in as long as possible in order to get in bone straight. My hair would promptly pay me back by breaking off just as quickly.

It holds water, heat (when I did use it) and takes forever to rinse out. Remember can'tcha don'tcha knots, well I am the poster chile. We won't even discuss SHRINKAGE!!!!! (see siggy below)

I know exactly what you are saying, I have had to really learn to accept this as the hair I was born with because it will take you to the frustration zone, quick fast and in a hurry.

Now on the other hand I have never had a problem with my hair being thin, stringy or laying flat to my head. It has always been thick, full and a lot of it. It grows out not down. Don't know if that will ever change but looking forward to seeing if it does or NOT!

I guess there are pros and cons to every hair texture!

Here is a lady that has 4B textured hair and I just love it. When my hair grows up I hope it is like hers one day.

http://public.fotki.com/Kemi21/hair/june-2007/

All this time, I thought I was 4a/4b combo. I now realize that I am a 3c/4a combo.

Me too...i just knew i was 4B however my hair texture isnt like the ladies above Great thread tho

 

[Fine 4s]

Other way around, 4b is coarser than 4a.

I define "coarse" as a strand of hair as strong as a rope. The diameter of the hair strand is bigger than it is for fine hair (coarse vs. fine). Asian hair is defined as coarse quite a bit.

So, based on my understanding, one can have coarse 4a or 4b etc.

 

[anon123]

4b signing in. Can we say BLACK COTTON!!!!!!!!! Please see siggy and avatar for review.

Here is a lady that has 4B textured hair and I just love it. When my hair grows up I hope it is like hers one day.

http://public.fotki.com/Kemi21/hair/june-2007/

Interestingly enough, Kemi defines her hair as 4a with a bit of 3c.

Lots of people's 4bs will not be other people's 4bs. I think it's going to happen with all the hair type categories because people's hair didn't come about to fit into one of a few boxes. Also because 4b is the last category in that system, it's like anything that looks distinctly afro textured but couldn't fit squarely into 4a all gets dumped into 4b.

 

[glamazon386]

I define "coarse" as a strand of hair as strong as a rope. The diameter of the hair strand is bigger than it is for fine hair (coarse vs. fine). Asian hair is defined as coarse quite a bit.

So, based on my understanding, one can have coarse 4a or 4b etc.

That's true. Any hair type from 1 through 4 can be coarse. Not just 4b. That also doesn't meant that 4a can't be coarse. I know some coarse 3's.

 

[Cheleigh]

I don't agree that 4b has NO curl.

Hair only really comes from straight to curly. Wavy hair is just very loosely curled hair. Kinky is hair is VERY curly hair.

If it's not curly, then what is it? It sure isn't straight or wavy. "Frizz" is not a curl pattern. Kinkyness is a question of the actual texture (level of coarseness) and not JUST curl pattern. which is why you can have a highly defined 4a and a less "perfectly" defined 4a like mine for example.

Now 4b is not just devoid of any type of curl pattern. It just doesn't "clump" like 4a does. It also tends to be very coarse.
​

This tends to be my thinking about 4b too. I think 4b hair can take different shapes: 4b "can" be kinky straight (irregular hills and valleys that don't form an "S" or "O" shaped strand), or it "can" be super curly strands ("O" shaped) that won't clump together into curls or coils. A lot of people seem to have a combo of 4a/4b, but I do think that 4b hair has more diversity within the "hair type" than Andre, or most people, give it credit for.

 

[santwon]

Nonie, thanks for all of that. I hadn't seen that yet. That looks like my hair. And I'd agreed that 4b has no curl but it DOES have a curl they are just tiny. I really wish you'd send those photos to some of those book publishers. I get SOOOO upset when I see hair typing photos and they show all of the textures from 1a to 4a with long hair but the the 4b/4c girl has a short crop. I'm like are you SERIOUS??!! How am I supposed to tell what the texture is when she has NO HAIR compared to all the other pictures? or it's a picture of Erykah Badu's weave like what was mentioned earlier. Seeing a photo of Beyonce there is...just not a fair comparison.

My hair looks like Nonie's too. So, what now? Do I retract myself from the 3 texture group? There aren't enough categories. This doesn't make any sense. And it kinda makes a difference but it kinda doesn't. I think I'll just try to make it work for me and see what my hair needs instead of trying to find a checkbox for it.

 

[sunnieb]

Bumping....

This thread was a good read.

 

[HarlemHottie]

Funny

I assure you that I am a 4B

This is an example of what I consider to be 4B hair:

http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=goodscentsperfume

You guys have me second guessing my typing now...

 

[locabouthair]

I always felt like most people claiming 4b really weren't especially those who are relaxed.

I honestly think few people have "my type" of 4b hair.

 

[MizzBrit]

this thread looks interesting..im going back to read
but yea..4b checking in!

 

[CurlyMoo]

Interesting thread. I’ve thought about the same thing, too.

There are gradations of many hair types, which are pretty generalized. My 4B hair is anything but cottony, but sharp and wiry, each strand about the thickness of sewing thread. Ido have a wave pattern, but it’s a sharp “Z” not an “S” and very irregular. It doesn’t kink or coil (though I’ve discovered a new coily patch recently ), but just sort of shoots straight up from my head. (I have my father’s hair ) I texlax it because it cannot be too straight.

I attached a fair digital representation of my hair strands. The Natural version is on the top, the texlaxed version is on the bottom.

I call those micro-waves.

 

[HarlemHottie]

I always felt like most people claiming 4b really weren't especially those who are relaxed.

I honestly think few people have "my type" of 4b hair.

You might be right, I mean I went off my 4b relaxed hair Idols Traycee & Kami...
During the year I was natural (and didn't know how to take care of my hair) I would slap some B&B grease on my hair with some water and tie it down and it always produced waves... I thought that was the natural order of things if you applied grease and water .... But now I'm reading ALL over the board that if you're natural hair does that it's not 4b (sigh) look at this late in the game I'm not about to change anything... The products that are being use on 4b hair make my hair thrive and grow so if it ain't broke then you know the rest...

I have the same issue when I claim the "DARK SKIN" tittle I'm told I don't fit that mold either when I think I do and LOVE IT (Dark chocolate hear me roar lol )... Well let me hush because i'm getting all of topic now. erplexed