Her 4b is not MY 4b ....hair type

[Leshia]

ETA: i had to put the wig on in the first place because i tried to do a wash and go (as someone said - iturned out to be wash and no) .

Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"! really loud...*walks away still laughing*

 

[facets]

Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"! really loud...*walks away still laughing*

 

[glamazon386]

When I say coarse, I mean the coarse hair that Afro texture hair has. The type of coarse hair that some Asians or Whites have is not the same coarse hair that most black people have. If it was, then Black women would not get relaxers.

Plus Asians, some Asians straighten their hair to get a bone-straight look but their hair is still straight. They just want it straighter or flat.

I also mention that. Your hair could be coarse and thick or coarse and medium. Again that's why I said that we need more categories. If you can get your hair straight with a blow-dryer, but it's still considered a type 4? Then we need some new categories. I won't say people are mislabeling their hair but I mean if we want to go by what the guide says then Type 4 hair would not get relaxer-straight without a relaxer, but Type 3 hair would. There are just certain properties that make 4 Type hair what it is. Just like Type 1 hair will not be coarse at all. Or it won't be curly.

So how do you explain people with natural hair who get their hair pressed with a hot comb? People were doing that before relaxers. Hard Presse with a hot comb can get hair as straight as a relaxer if the person knows that they're doing. Are you saying type 4 hair can never look relaxer straight without a relaxer? Because that's what it sounds like to me and that is not true. I've seen it done before on the nappiest of naps. I mean a true 4b. It's all about skills and techniques. Not so much the texture. I've seen it done by my hairdresser with a blowdrier and a flat iron. By the Dominicans with rollers and a blowdrier and roundbrush and by other stylist with a marcel stove and a flat iron. It can be done.

And to the bolded, nobody absolutely NEEDS a relaxer. It is a CHOICE. Now sometimes it may have been your mama's choice and not yours when you were a child, but still a choice nonetheless. I also think that a lot of times people relax their hair (or their childrens) because they don't know what else to do with it. That and because that was all they knew. It was the norm for black women's hair. Everybody straightened their hair, so that's what they did. That's why many of us who are just getting acquainted with our natural hair as adults have to go through a whole learning process. We don't know what to do or may not even remember what our natural hair looked like as a child.

 

[maleucia]

Well, not that I want to add anymore confusion about the hair typing, but there is a newer system called LOIS here is the site.

http://www.ourhair.net/content/view/29/40/

I like this system much better. I can simply look at an individual strand of shed hair and see what it does. I'm a mixture of mostly O and some S.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

So how do you explain people with natural hair who get their hair pressed with a hot comb? People were doing that before relaxers. Hard Presse with a hot comb can get hair as straight as a relaxer if the person knows that they're doing. Are you saying type 4 hair can never look relaxer straight without a relaxer? Because that's what it sounds like to me and that is not true. I've seen it done before on the nappiest of naps. I mean a true 4b. It's all about skills and techniques. Not so much the texture. I've seen it done by my hairdresser with a blowdrier and a flat iron. By the Dominicans with rollers and a blowdrier and roundbrush and by other stylist with a marcel stove and a flat iron. It can be done.

And to the bolded, nobody absolutely NEEDS a relaxer. It is a CHOICE. Now sometimes it may have been your mama's choice and not yours when you were a child, but still a choice nonetheless. I also think that a lot of times people relax their hair (or their childrens) because they don't know what else to do with it. That and because that was all they knew. It was the norm for black women's hair. Everybody straightened their hair, so that's what they did.

I don't want to start a debate. So this is the last I will say on this.

I did say in my original post or maybe the post after it, or another thread, that Type 4 hair gets straight with either relaxers or by intense heat, like a pressing comb. The blow-dryer on true type 4 hair would not be enough heat to get the hair straight or bone-straight. As far as the pressing comb, yes it can get hair straight but after awhile the hair goes back to it's original state. But 3 Type can get straight with just blow-drying or flat-iron alone, hair that's in the 3 Group and above.

As far as the relaxers and Black women. Regardless of who started it, if our hair was naturally straight then we would not continue to get them, overall I mean. Yes, some women go natural but for the most part, AA women still get relaxers, which makes their hair straight. If you have a Type 3 hair texture, your wouldn't need that chemical to straighten your hair, you could just blow dry it out.

Again, again, again. That's why I said that there needs to be more categories in both the 3 Group and 4 Group. If you have 4 hair, then you do. Looking at your hair, in the pic, I wouldn't say your hair is Type 4. I would say your in the 3 Group but maybe a 3d or 3e if there was such a category, but since there isn't, then the closest I would say would be 3c/4a? I don't know, that's just with working with the choices I have.

Again, I don't want a debate. I was just merely saying there needs to be more categories.

 

[Twisties]

Ahahahahahahahahahaahahaha *snort* *CHOKECHOKE* that was good...I picture you saying that like Austin Powers and screaming "No"! really loud...*walks away still laughing*

LOL, i have said many things while working all of this out on my journey.

i wanna know if any 4b has successfully (TRUTHFULLY) plopped if you recall that term. there was this plopping craze going on a while back where you wet the hair, put gel in it and then u put a towel or t-shirt on it to get the curls to pop. anyoneerplexed? my attempt turned into another cone head wig day.

 

[Twisties]

that was by far my best twist out EVAH I need to check out some albums
Cause on I'm on, GREASE ME DOWN

It's grease I say, I says it's grease.


We do need to merge, not EVERY single thing our ancestors did/invented was wrong. I knew about grease but I didn't know about protective styling or sealing in moisture. I'm still learning daily

No you didn't put it to a tune - Wipe me down!

Yes your twist out is so cute. I agree too about the moisture sealing and protectiving styling. I am learning so much too. Like Sareca's oil wash thread. Back in the day, I used to do that as a hot oil treatment on dry hair and it didn't work, but I have tried her version 2x's so far on wet hair and then conditioner and I think I like the resutls. We are learning all the time!

 

[localhost]

LOL, i have said many things while working all of this out on my journey.

i wanna know if any 4b has successfully (TRUTHFULLY) plopped if you recall that term. there was this plopping craze going on a while back where you wet the hair, put gel in it and then u put a towel or t-shirt on it to get the curls to pop. anyoneerplexed? my attempt turned into another cone head wig day.

LOL!

 

[glamazon386]

I don't want to start a debate. So this is the last I will say on this.

I did say in my original post or maybe the post after it, or another thread, that Type 4 hair gets straight with either relaxers or by intense heat, like a pressing comb. The blow-dryer on true type 4 hair would not be enough heat to get the hair straight or bone-straight. As far as the pressing comb, yes it can get hair straight but after awhile the hair goes back to it's original state. But 3 Type can get straight with just blow-drying or flat-iron alone, hair that's in the 3 Group and above.

As far as the relaxers and Black women. Regardless of who started it, if our hair was naturally straight then we would not continue to get them, overall I mean. Yes, some women go natural but for the most part, AA women still get relaxers, which makes their hair straight. If you have a Type 3 hair texture, your wouldn't need that chemical to straighten your hair, you could just blow dry it out.

Again, again, again. That's why I said that there needs to be more categories in both the 3 Group and 4 Group. If you have 4 hair, then you do. Looking at your hair, in the pic, I wouldn't say your hair is Type 4. I would say your in the 3 Group but maybe a 3d or 3e if there was such a category, but since there isn't, then the closest I would say would be 3c/4a? I don't know, that's just with working with the choices I have.

Again, I don't want a debate. I was just merely saying there needs to be more categories.

So how do you explain Type 3's with relaxers? And does their hair not go back to it original state after blowdrying and flat ironing? My whole point wasn't that you were wrong, it's just what you're saying is not true for every type 4 or type 3 or type whatever for that matter. That's all. Everything does not work for everybody or does not hold true for everybody. That's just like all of the products and regimens here on this board. Just because somebody has the same hair type as I do on this board, doesn't mean that all the products they use will work on my hair. Or vice versa. I found that out the hard way with the MJ Curly Pudding. My hair did not like it. Same thing with techniques and methods. I don't baggy, seal, pre-poo, etc or do any of that other stuff. Didn't work for me.

I still think for a lot of people relax because they don't know how to deal with highly textured hair whether it is kinks or curls. So the fix all for a lot of people is a relaxer no matter what the hair type or texture. Also, if you are going to wear your hair straight most of the time, why go through the trouble of blow drying in flat ironing when you can relax and just wash it and go on about your business. Also you won't have to worry about possible heat damage everytime you go to straighten. That was some of my relatives reason for relaxing outside of thinning out the bulk. My grandmother said it was a pain because the waves would come back in if you stayed in the shower too long, got caught outside, etc. They would mess up your hairstyle so a relaxer was easier.

I think people just need to take the typing system with a grain of salt. We all agree that it sucks, and have agreed upon that since it first popped up years ago. I don't think more categories would fix it, I think it would just lead to more confusion. People should use the types as a guideline and that's it. Also a lot of people are trying to type new growth with relaxed hair which can make it hard to tell. My new growth looked like waves until I got about 3 or 4 inches of it but I knew my hair certainly wasn't a type 2.

 

[pattycake0701]

For what it's worth...I consider myself 4a. My hair is very thick and coarse. I have a ton of strands on my head and the actual strand is thick. My hair grows in a corkscrew pattern, a very tight corkscrew pattern. The corkscrews are about the size of pensprings...coffee stirrers...toothpicks...whatever. I'd rather be a 4b as I don't see a Z pattern tangling up like a corkscrew...I could be wrong though

When reading product reviews and whatnot, I am more interested in the poster's strand width than pattern or tightness. I feel as it takes more to penetrate my thick strands than would someone with fine hair. Same with straightening techniques.

 

[Energee]

Black people with true 4 hair can get a relaxed look without a relaxer...Hot combs, blowouts, etc. I've seen it done. The only thing is that there will be a lot of damage from this type of manipulation on a regular basis. Of course, we know the hair will likely revert with humidity, sweat or any type of dampness (rain..etc) but it can be done and has been done.

Most people don't want to deal with hot combs or blowouts on a regular basis and want something more permanent...hence, the relaxer.

Also, I know many 3's with relaxers and their hair reverts too. If their hair was so easily straightened and was able to stay straight they would not relax. Just like others with naturally curly hair will revert when they try to straighten their hair with blowouts etc....

 

[SweetCaramel1]

I think people just need to take the typing system with a grain of salt. We all agree that it sucks, and have agreed upon that since it first popped up years ago. I don't think more categories would fix it, I think it would just lead to more confusion. People should use the types as a guideline and that's it. Also a lot of people are trying to type new growth with relaxed hair which can make it hard to tell. My new growth looked like waves until I got about 3 or 4 inches of it but I knew my hair certainly wasn't a type 2.

i agree. it's all subjective. to me your hair is 4a, to another member 3c, another 4b. it's just another way to divide us

 

[meaganita]

ok, now i'm confused too...what if they're small coils that only come up when the hair is wet and/or in conditioner... A or B?

Does this make a difference in care/regimen?

are there old threads abt this?

That's what i get for yakking over in OT and ENT 'steada learning.

In that case I'd say that's 4a. In my experience, 4b does not form defined curls with water or product. The 4b curl pattern isn't uniform or consistent enough to submit to water or product as to produce clearly defined curls/coils.

 

[facets]

In that case I'd say that's 4a. In my experience, 4b does not form defined curls with water or product. The 4b curl pattern isn't uniform or consistent enough to submit to water or product as to produce clearly defined curls/coils.

Thanks for answering Meaganita...So, do 4As need to do anything different as far as regimen, product compared to 4Bs?

 

[meaganita]

Thanks for answering Meaganita...So, do 4As need to do anything different as far as regimen, product compared to 4Bs?

No problem Facets! Mmmmm....I listen to advice of 4b's because I do have some 4b patches in my head. But on top of that I figure what works for them might work for me too since our textures are generally the most delicate of all the others. Of course there are other factors that go into it, such as strand diameter, overall density, condition of the hair, relaxed, natural, etc. Even hair twins can have completely different results with identical products. So in the end, I think it still boils down to finding out what does/doesn't work for your hair through trial and error. But I primarily seek advice and product inspiration from ladies with 4 texture...whether a or b. ---HTH

 

[caligirl]

Because the 3 group hair usually requires no relaxers or anything chemical to straighten their hair. Maybe just a blow dryer or a flat-iron, that's it.

My hair gets straight straight with just a blowdrier and flat iron (see my avatar) and my hair is coarse and nappy.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

Ladies, ladies. I didn't mean that ALL Type 3 and ALL Type 4's fit into this category. If your a Type 3 and you need relaxers, then fine.

If your a Type 4 and you can get your hair straight without a relaxer then that's fine too.

I wasn't saying this holds true for all of us. I was really just saying a different viewpoint.

Back to lurking

 

[AvaSpeaks]

Black people with true 4 hair can get a relaxed look without a relaxer...Hot combs, blowouts, etc. I've seen it done. The only thing is that there will be a lot of damage from this type of manipulation on a regular basis. Of course, we know the hair will likely revert with humidity, sweat or any type of dampness (rain..etc) but it can be done and has been done.

Most people don't want to deal with hot combs or blowouts on a regular basis and want something more permanent...hence, the relaxer.

Also, I know many 3's with relaxers and their hair reverts too. If their hair was so easily straightened and was able to stay straight they would not relax. Just like others with naturally curly hair will revert when they try to straighten their hair with blowouts etc....

Yes and most of this is what I was trying to say. But I guess it came out totally wrong

 

[cmw45]

For what it's worth...I consider myself 4a. My hair is very thick and coarse. I have a ton of strands on my head and the actual strand is thick. My hair grows in a corkscrew pattern, a very tight corkscrew pattern. The corkscrews are about the size of pensprings...coffee stirrers...toothpicks...whatever. I'd rather be a 4b as I don't see a Z pattern tangling up like a corkscrew...I could be wrong though

When reading product reviews and whatnot, I am more interested in the poster's strand width than pattern or tightness. I feel as it takes more to penetrate my thick strands than would someone with fine hair. Same with straightening techniques.

I'm a real 4a and I have often thought the same thing...I'm worried that my hair is going to break off from all the tangling.

 

[*Happily Me*]

Most of the strands of my hair are very thin and quite fragile. But I have a whole lot of them

 

[glamazon386]

Ladies, ladies. I didn't mean that ALL Type 3 and ALL Type 4's fit into this category. If your a Type 3 and you need relaxers, then fine.

If your a Type 4 and you can get your hair straight without a relaxer then that's fine too.

I wasn't saying this holds true for all of us. I was really just saying a different viewpoint.

Back to lurking

Nobody needs a relaxer hun. I'm natural and I'm offended by that comment.

 

[jade998]

Nobody needs a relaxer hun. I'm natural and I'm offended by that comment.

I don't think she meant it in that way.

Please don't get offended. She think she was trying to clarify that no hair type needs a relaxer more over the other. I think her original comment was taken out of context and I kinda know what she was trying to say but maybe it did not come out the way she meant for it to come out.

The relaxer issue on LHCF is very subjective and I think consensus on the board is about growing healthy hair regardless of how you chose to wear it

P.S you hair is beautiful

 

[glamazon386]

I don't think she meant it in that way.

Please don't get offended. She think she was trying to clarify that no hair type needs a relaxer more over the other. I think her original comment was taken out of context and I kinda know what she was trying to say but maybe it did not come out the way she meant for it to come out.

The relaxer issue on LHCF is very subjective and I think consensus on the board is about growing healthy hair regardless of how you chose to wear it

P.S you hair is beautiful

Thanks hun! But I'm still offended for various reasons. As much as we want to think everybody on this board is all for healthy hair regardless of whether it is natural or not, that's simply not always the case and it comes through with the language people use in their posts.

 

[dany06]

Okay I guess that Im apart of the 4b crowd although some strands I guess are 4a. I really dont think any of my hair makes z for real but I dont have define curls or coils. When I first bc'ed I had some coils form after washing but as soon as it dried it turned to frizz. No matter what gel or anything that I use turn my wet coil/curl to dry coils. Now its almost 5 months later and it seems that I have even less of any curl that I had before. I have used a denman brush and that too gives me coils/ curls when wet but as soon as it dries then Im back to my frizzy hair. So I assume that I must be 4b if i average out what type of hair that I have. Do you agree that I would be 4b because I dont have silky hair that forms a head full of massive defined curls?

 

[est.April1983]

I am a true 4b as well. My hair is very coarse when the NG is herere I can bearly part it! my NG looks like a baby fro when I stretch for a long time. The dominican shop that I go to want to relax my hair every four weeks bc of how coarse my hair is but I tell them this is the texture of my hair and constant relaxing wont make it different. They get mad when I show up 10 weeks or 11 weeks postbut oh well. Is it me or is type 4 hair the hardest to hold moisture?

 

[envybeauty]

I am a true 4b as well. My hair is very coarse when the NG is herere I can bearly part it! my NG looks like a baby fro when I stretch for a long time. The dominican shop that I go to want to relax my hair every four weeks bc of how coarse my hair is but I tell them this is the texture of my hair and constant relaxing wont make it different. They get mad when I show up 10 weeks or 11 weeks postbut oh well. Is it me or is type 4 hair the hardest to hold moisture?

I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry! Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright. I'm like are they using water from the River Jordan? My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural. Even when wet!

 

[scarcity21]

posting to subscribe...im a true 4B...check out my fotki

 

[natieya]

I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry! Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright. I'm like are they using water from the River Jordan? My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural. Even when wet!

at the bolded statement above!

P.S.--I feel ya. I really do.

 

[BklynHeart]

I think so too!! My 4b is sooooooooooo darn dry! Eveyone keeps talking about just moisturizing when stretching and everything will be alright. I'm like are they using water from the River Jordan? My ish NEVER wants to retain moisture when natural. Even when wet!

HA!!!!

Yess, I know exactly what you mean!! I have 4Z hair, and have been wearing braids for most of the transition, because me trying to do braidouts or just leaving it out is a horror show in itself. It's dry and no matter what I put on it the hair just laughs. So far, I broke down and put some Always Natural grease on it after washing and taking out most of the water. That's been helping until I braid it back up.

 

[pattycake0701]

posting to subscribe...im a true 4B...check out my fotki

You know what...I checked out your album and I would consider you a 4a/4b mix. It looks like you have a z pattern in the front, but a coily texture everywhere else. Nevertheless (like any of this matters anyways) your hair looks very healthy