Is type 4b hair uncommon?

[Tiye]

i think thats the point. 4b hair doesnt get alot of love from most ppl unless its really long...4b TWAs or shoulder length and shorter hair (& im not even taking shrinkage into consideration) dont get as much attention/appreciation as they should...and its rare for 4b hair to get much longer than that off the boards because alot of ppl either dont know how to take care of it or just slap relaxers on it b/c they've been brainwashed to think that its "bad" and that it cant grow long.

Long hair didn't begin with chat boards and not everyone in the world is on a hair growth journey. This is a special interest board focused on long hair so that's the majority here. IRL many people like short hair and aren't looking to grow it out. This isn't because they're poor unfortunates who don't know about internet hair boards, or because they think their hair is bad, it's simply the look they like.

No one is/or should be complaining about chat board marginalization. The whole point in coming here or any discussion board is to get or share information and tips. A chat board can't make you a victim. Anyone feeling marginalized should just log off and not come back.

 

[aleemah]

Long hair didn't begin with chat boards and not everyone in the world is on a hair growth journey. This is a special interest board focused on long hair so that's the majority here. IRL many people like short hair and aren't looking to grow it out. This isn't because they're poor unfortunates who don't know about internet hair boards, or because they think their hair is bad, it's simply the look they like.

No one is/or should be complaining about chat board marginalization. The whole point in coming here or any discussion board is to get or share information and tips. A chat board can't make you a victim. Anyone feeling marginalized should just log off and not come back.

I think most of what you say is true, but what about when you have newbies with 4b hair who come to these boards to gather information or tips to grow longer hair and they see that their hair type is either being rejected or not talked about as much as other hair types. I think this "hair typing" thing is becoming a problem(or has been a problem). I have been to many natural hair boards and this question is one of the most common questions. What I have a problem with is how ppl try to sweep it under the rug like its a non-issue. There are way more 4b hair types on these boards but they would rather hide or claim they are 4a because they have a small patch of hair that is 4a or they manipulate their hair with styling gels.butters etc. I see them all the time on youtube but then I ask myself well why do they do that and I think we all know the answer to that. If 4b hair was being glorified, you would see them coming out the woodwork. Its the same way rather virtual or in reality and thats just my opinion.

 

[Nonie]

I think most of what you say is true, but what about when you have newbies with 4b hair who come to these boards to gather information or tips to grow longer hair and they see that their hair type is either being rejected or not talked about as much as other hair types. I think this "hair typing" thing is becoming a problem(or has been a problem). I have been to many natural hair boards and this question is one of the most common questions. What I have a problem with is how ppl try to sweep it under the rug like its a non-issue. There are way more 4b hair types on these boards but they would rather hide or claim they are 4a because they have a small patch of hair that is 4a or they manipulate their hair with styling gels.butters etc. I see them all the time on youtube but then I ask myself well why do they do that and I think we all know the answer to that. If 4b hair was being glorified, you would see them coming out the woodwork. Its the same way rather virtual or in reality and thats just my opinion.

With all due respect, I've been on the forum for a little over 7 years and initially, that might've been the case where everyone wanted to claim type 3 hair, but I have seen a major change in that, and now people are proud to be who they are. You might have the odd one who keeps asking "Are you sure that's my type?" when told they are 4B but it's the exception than the rule. I haven't seen any 4B's, on this forum, not get love. I personally love to share as much as I can and will actually seek out threads talking about 4B hair whenever I log on. I don't read every thread in the hair forum. In fact, I usually scan through looking for threads I might've missed that discuss my type of hair. This has been my MO from when I joined the forum, when I actually searched for posts by people with hair like mine (Mufasa, Daughter, Den1, JCoily...to name a few) because their information was more useful to me than that of relaxed or other type haired members. And even back then, when natural type 4 hair wasn't that common on the forum (coz majority of folks were relaxed), I never felt this animosity toward my type of hair that so many of you seem to feel there is.

That said, long hair gets a lot of attention, whether it's relaxed or natural. That's nothing new. But that has never stopped me from sharing about my hair and I'd ask questions too if I had any, even though I've got nothing to show for all the years I've been here. Coz I've never felt as if it's only long-haired folks who get attention.

If anyone feels like their thread is being ignored, you can bump it up or PM someone whom you think might be able to help. There are so many forums and so many discussions going on that folks might not be looking when you post. And then coz your thread gets buried, you sulk and decide it's coz of your hair texture. C'mon nah! If ever there was a time when 4B hair would've been shunned on this forum, it was in 2003 when I joined the forum and 90% of the members were relaxed and everyone who was natural was "type 3". But even back then, I never ever felt like I was ignored or like my hair wasn't worthy of being posted or discussed. That there are people who feel that way today makes me wonder how you'd have survived back when we were so few on the forum who claimed type 4B.

 

[EllePixie]

I don't think people getting ignored has anything to do with having 4b hair...short hair for sure, 4b, nah. But I mean...we ARE on LONG Hair Care Forum so...no surprise there, right? I've seen people say things along the line of..."I don't really listen to women who don't have long hair, because really, what do they know?" I mean...if that's how you feel, that's fine, but I'm sure there are many women on this site who do a ton of research and are making awesome progress in their hair journeys, even if their hair isn't BSL+ (yet). Either way, as a "short" haired woman, that doesn't hurt my feelings...I'll just let my hair thrive.

 

[Amerie2304]

Quick question here: Which hair type is "o" strands on Andre's chart? I'm pretty sure it's Type 4 but would it be 4a or 4b? I've always been curious about this.

 

[Nonie]

Quick question here: Which hair type is "o" strands on Andre's chart? I'm pretty sure it's Type 4 but would it be 4a or 4b? I've always been curious about this.

Not sure what "O' strands are but the cross-section of a coil is an O and all curly hair (both 3 and 4 are coils...just of varying sizes) so all type 3 and all type 4 would form O's if were talking about the circular shape created when coils contract. If you snip a small section of any of these hairs and place it on a table, you will see O's, with 3's being bigger than 4's, and 4B the smallest.

If you stretch curly hair, it becomes wavy and S like. So again, both 3 and 4 types can look S like although 3's do this with most easy and 4B with most difficulty. I think shingling with some holding foam or texlaxing might be the only way to see 4B appear wavy, short of stretching it with your fingers.

 

[nzeee]

Your photo is too blurry in the area you say has no pattern for me to see for sure this "no pattern claim". Can you take it with that area being the area of focus? Also, you should not manipulate it. No brushing.

Another thing to consider is when hair is seen en masse, it's pattern is hard to see, especially if there's no clumping to emphasize the shape of the strands. That area you highlight reminded me of these photos of my hair:

...if I'm guessing right that the blur is hiding this. The hair looks formless, but if you look at the strands that stand alone, you can see the pattern.

hey noni,

thanks for responding, i was hoping you would.

here's my thing tho: i'm not doubting that particular part of my hair has curls, they're tiny but i know they are there even without the separation you have illustrated in your own pics. the curls at both sides of my head (in the front only) are what i would typically associate with 4b hair. but the majority of my hair doesn't look like that. the majority of it grows in a loose... i don't even know what to call it because it's not a curl. even w/ the blurry photo, i think you can tell that between the top and the side that is visible, there is a distinct texture difference (** btw: my hair is fairly unmanipulated in the pic. there is no product. my hair wasn't just combed or brushed right before the pic but likely had been at some point that day).

so seeing as much of my hair is of the hardly-any-curl-at-all variety, perhaps this is one type of 4b that andre's system is referring to... seriously, i had a stylist offer to cut my relaxed ends. but my ends aren't relaxed, there's just hairs that grow w/out any curl pattern...

i'll take more pics this wknd if i can manage it on the last shopping wknd before christmas. i'm seriously fascinated (of course, right?) and would like to know if there is anyone else.

 

[Nonie]

so seeing as much of my hair is of the hardly-any-curl-at-all variety, perhaps this is one type of 4b that andre's system is referring to... seriously, i had a stylist offer to cut my relaxed ends. but my ends aren't relaxed, there's just hairs that grow w/out any curl pattern...

i'll take more pics this wknd if i can manage it on the last shopping wknd before christmas. i'm seriously fascinated (of course, right?) and would like to know if there is anyone else.

Before my mom started the S Curl regimen I put her on, her hair looked kinda like that:

My manipulated hair has that appearance too:

You can see it at the end of my braids in the pic below:

 

[nzeee]

^^YES!! that's what i meant )

particularly in the pics of your mum. that's why i've never been a fan of the afro on me but never broke down the reason why, just that it didn't 'look good', just kind of unkept. but now i know the reason is because i can't get a nice round 'fro w/ all the straight bits sticking out. sometimes i'd even tuck different sections in so it could look more uniform. and... well, i always felt like my hair was even more awful because of that. here i am, dark skinned, kinky hair, and my afro looked whack. it was all kinds of fail in my eyes. sorry to get all OT, just really glad to see someone else w/ my kind of 4b

curious tho: what happened to your mum's hair once you got her going w/ the s'curl? how did her hair change?

and now for my pics. i think these do a good job of illustrating the mostly straight no pattern thing but it's seriously hard taking a close-up hair pic (for me) so they're not the best but should get my point across.

*note, my hair is freshly washed and lightly conditioned. air dried about 15-20m, no product. it's entirely and completely unmanipulated.


(Edited because the 2nd pic is upside down... but don't know how to fix so upside down it remains

 

[nzeee]

witness all those who doubt the existence of the non-curl pattern (doesn't apply to my whole head, just about 50-60% of it. sides are what most associate w/ 4b hair, super tight curls. but you can see the texture difference between front and sides in this pic):

and then of course i have 4a at nape and crown:

my pubes don't even grown in curly never mind!

Your photo is too blurry in the area you say has no pattern for me to see for sure this "no pattern claim". Can you take it with that area being the area of focus? Also, you should not manipulate it. No brushing.

Another thing to consider is when hair is seen en masse, it's pattern is hard to see, especially if there's no clumping to emphasize the shape of the strands. That area you highlight reminded me of these photos of my hair:

...if I'm guessing right that the blur is hiding this. The hair looks formless, but if you look at the strands that stand alone, you can see the pattern.

Your photo is too blurry in the area you say has no pattern for me to see for sure this "no pattern claim". Can you take it with that area being the area of focus? Also, you should not manipulate it. No brushing.

oh, i should also say that the tiny area at the side is highlighted to show contrast between it and the bulk of the non-curl part that exists at the front, then randomly throughout. this is what causes the 'relaxed ends' look like your mum has in that pic.

it's because both my sides are what most would associate as typical 4b since they're super tiny curlies and my nape and crown is larger, clumping curls that i wanted to point this other part of my hair. this other part that does not curl at all like the rest. i think it's this large area in the front that may illustrate what others may be referring to when they say 4a hair has no curl pattern. that section is def not curly nor is it manipulated to look like that. and i think it's atypical is what i'm getting at. not that 4b hair is rare, it's really not, but could there be sub-sub-types of 4b; those w/ teeny tiny coils, those w/ kinks and those w/out much curl at all...

hope that makes sense now.

 

[Nonie]

@Nzeee (sorry I had missed one e ), I think when 4B hair is well moisturized internally, and not manipulated, it just takes up its natural pattern: coily. My mom's hair was very dry because her only moisturizer was not water-based. She also had never DC'd her hair until I introduced her to it. That's the only change we made in her case.

I also discovered my hair was coily when I discovered DCing. Prior to that, I'd never seen my hair look any other way than the way my mom's looked.

As far as afros are concerned, I've always just patted my afro into place. But since introducing S Curl into my life (and my mom's) the moisture in the product causes the hair to curl back into itself so that the afro just forms w/o much effort. I think another mistake people make when trying to create an afro is use a comb with short teeth. You need a pick to create a good afro because the teeth allow you to reach all the way from the perimeter of your hair to the center so that if you can go around your head, lift hair to the afro size you want, and not mess that up while combing other sections. Then you can just pat it into shape, but S Curl just seems to make the hair coil back.

You can see from the close-up of my afro, that the hair ends are just curling back to form a round shape:

BTW, combing your hair is manipulating, which might explain why your 4A section isn't clumping. If you comb your hair when it is semi-dry or just damp, and especially if you comb it w/o some moisturizing or sticky-ish product, then your hair won't really clump. I bet if you were to shampoo your hair or clarify, then DC with heat using a product like Aveda Damage Repair or Emergencee or AO GPB and then you followed that with a moisturizing regular condition, only combing your hair when slathered with those products and then rinsing, you'd see your hair clump more in the areas with bigger coils.

I don't do WNGs so I'm not the best person to give tips on definition but I'm guessing if you DC and then condition with some uber moisturizing conditioner (Aussie Deeee...p?), that you'll see hints of coils even at your ends.

I don't know how often you dust your ends (I apologize if you already shared this but I'm too lazy to go back and read), but that does make a difference too. You don't need to cut off too much. I just put my hair in tiny twists all over and snip off this much__ from each one, and that keeps my ends behaving nicely.

 

[jcdlox]

pretty afro hair Nonie!

@Nzeee (sorry I had missed one e ), I think when 4B hair is well moisturized internally, and not manipulated, it just takes up its natural pattern: coily. My mom's hair was very dry because her only moisturizer was not water-based. She also had never DC'd her hair until I introduced her to it. That's the only change we made in her case.

I also discovered my hair was coily when I discovered DCing. Prior to that, I'd never seen my hair look any other way than the way my mom's looked.

As far as afros are concerned, I've always just patted my afro into place. But since introducing S Curl into my life (and my mom's) the moisture in the product causes the hair to curl back into itself so that the afro just forms w/o much effort. I think another mistake people make when trying to create an afro is use a comb with short teeth. You need a pick to create a good afro because the teeth allow you to reach all the way from the perimeter of your hair to the center so that if you can go around your head, lift hair to the afro size you want, and not mess that up while combing other sections. Then you can just pat it into shape, but S Curl just seems to make the hair coil back.

You can see from the close-up of my afro, that the hair ends are just curling back to form a round shape:

BTW, combing your hair is manipulating, which might explain why your 4A section isn't clumping. If you comb your hair when it is semi-dry or just damp, and especially if you comb it w/o some moisturizing or sticky-ish product, then your hair won't really clump. I bet if you were to shampoo your hair or clarify, then DC with heat using a product like Aveda Damage Repair or Emergencee or AO GPB and then you followed that with a moisturizing regular condition, only combing your hair when slathered with those products and then rinsing, you'd see your hair clump more in the areas with bigger coils.

I don't do WNGs so I'm not the best person to give tips on definition but I'm guessing if you DC and then condition with some uber moisturizing conditioner (Aussie Deeee...p?), that you'll see hints of coils even at your ends.

I don't know how often you dust your ends (I apologize if you already shared this but I'm too lazy to go back and read), but that does make a difference too. You don't need to cut off too much. I just put my hair in tiny twists all over and snip off this much__ from each one, and that keeps my ends behaving nicely.

 

[nzeee]

@Nzeee (sorry I had missed one e ), I think when 4B hair is well moisturized internally, and not manipulated, it just takes up its natural pattern: coily. My mom's hair was very dry because her only moisturizer was not water-based. She also had never DC'd her hair until I introduced her to it. That's the only change we made in her case.

I also discovered my hair was coily when I discovered DCing. Prior to that, I'd never seen my hair look any other way than the way my mom's looked.

As far as afros are concerned, I've always just patted my afro into place. But since introducing S Curl into my life (and my mom's) the moisture in the product causes the hair to curl back into itself so that the afro just forms w/o much effort. I think another mistake people make when trying to create an afro is use a comb with short teeth. You need a pick to create a good afro because the teeth allow you to reach all the way from the perimeter of your hair to the center so that if you can go around your head, lift hair to the afro size you want, and not mess that up while combing other sections. Then you can just pat it into shape, but S Curl just seems to make the hair coil back.

You can see from the close-up of my afro, that the hair ends are just curling back to form a round shape:

BTW, combing your hair is manipulating, which might explain why your 4A section isn't clumping. If you comb your hair when it is semi-dry or just damp, and especially if you comb it w/o some moisturizing or sticky-ish product, then your hair won't really clump. I bet if you were to shampoo your hair or clarify, then DC with heat using a product like Aveda Damage Repair or Emergencee or AO GPB and then you followed that with a moisturizing regular condition, only combing your hair when slathered with those products and then rinsing, you'd see your hair clump more in the areas with bigger coils.

I don't do WNGs so I'm not the best person to give tips on definition but I'm guessing if you DC and then condition with some uber moisturizing conditioner (Aussie Deeee...p?), that you'll see hints of coils even at your ends.

I don't know how often you dust your ends (I apologize if you already shared this but I'm too lazy to go back and read), but that does make a difference too. You don't need to cut off too much. I just put my hair in tiny twists all over and snip off this much__ from each one, and that keeps my ends behaving nicely.

werd! thanks for the advices nonie. well, i think i will leave it at that for now. don't want to turn this into the nz thread

 

[OsnapCnapp!]

Ok so was I wrong in giving myself the nickname I use here?

 

[NinasLongAmbition]

I am 100% 4B and proud!!

 

[Janet']

^^^Love that fro!

 

[Embyra]

I don't know. I'm inclined to think pen spring sized coils are 4a. Pencil to pen spring size. Is that right, y'all? My coils are smaller. The picture below has coils from two parts of my head. The one on the left is from the back which has a bigger curl, though my biggest ones are solidly the size of a pen spring, maybe a bit bigger in the very nape. The strands themselves are also thicker. The one on the right is from the center of my head. The strand is a finer strand and is smaller, though not the smallest I've found on my head. I now think the biggest curls in my nape could be called "4a" while everything else is 4b.

Left - bigger coil; Right - smaller coil

My smallest:

My biggest:

Look at these closeups! I pulled a Nonie!

oh wow your coils are tiny thats a great visual though rather than people going off what they THINK your coil size is

it's funny how type 4 hair has to be totally unmanipulated and dry like a bone to determine texture, but no other hair type requires that to decide what the texture is? It's like when type 4 hair looks a certain way, it's like, an explanation needs to follow or it needs to be seen 'naked'. When other hair types are styled and show their texture, whatever that is, it just is? Why is that?

Would suggesting that 4's are more like a compact/compressed spring unless stretched out with some product and tend to grow out rather than down and shrink in a way that can create an afro that's round like a microphone:

...as seen above, while while 3's resemble a stretched-out spring in addition to having bigger coils and usually would form a floppy afro as seen below make matters worse?

even as a kid i knew my hair was not capable of forming a microphone afro my hair hangs to the side
ps..Noniewhat camera are you using to take these clear zoomed in shots??

 

[Nonie]

coconut I have a Canon PowerShot SD850 IS. LOVE IT!!!

 

[Embyra]

@coconut I have a Canon PowerShot SD850 IS. LOVE IT!!!

thanks i knew it wasnt a camera phone......off to look

 

[theLovelyStyle]

Ive seen a lot of type 4b's but they usually claim 4a or 3c/4a.

 

[Embyra]

Ive seen a lot of type 4b's but they usually claim 4a or 3c/4a.

IRL? or on forums?

 

[theLovelyStyle]

IRL? or on forums?

On forums. I dont know anyone personally who types their hair with numbers and letters.

 

[Embyra]

On forums. I dont know anyone personally who types their hair with numbers and letters.

yeah thats what i was wondering thanks

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

Ive seen a lot of type 4b's but they usually claim 4a or 3c/4a.

OH MY GOD YES!!!! when i say the thread title ...exactly what popped into my head

 

[SND411]

Ive seen a lot of type 4b's but they usually claim 4a or 3c/4a.

And often due to a few strands exhibiting a spring-like structure

 

[theLovelyStyle]

And often due to a few strands exhibiting a spring-like structure

Or even when hair has already been manipulated to a achieve a certain curl pattern.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

Or even when hair has already been manipulated to a achieve a certain curl pattern.

dang I thought it was just me.... you are perceptive as heyelllll little little
will be adding you to my list of people I annoy.... i mean friends

 

[theLovelyStyle]

dang I thought it was just me.... you are perceptive as heyelllll little little
will be adding you to my list of people I annoy.... i mean friends

I personally don't know my hair type because I have been relaxed since I was 12, and before relaxing I always wore box braids with extensions.

But with all this hair typing going on I find it hilarious when folks try to coax a certain hair type when asking others of their hair type. Oh well, long live hair typing!