HE that findth a "WIFE" findth a good thang!
- Thread starter gn1g
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discobiscuits
New Member
i think one can and should do both. i also think that positioning can be as simple as what gn1g said: step out of your comfort zone. a woman does not have to chase men or put herself "in the way" of men to be seen. i mean take some classes (cooking, motorcycle, creative writing, whatever...). attend church social functions, not just the worship ones. if a group of peers asks you to go out after (work/church/school), then go (as long as what they are doing is in line w/ your beliefs/lifestyle). join a site like meetup and join a group that does activities you like or want to learn (fencing/bowling/hang gliding/knitting/pet care). even something simple like looking presentable when u go to the grocery store, who knows the one may be in line behind you.
one of my pet peeves is unmarried women in church who are so obviously trying to be seen & get a date w/o looking like they are doing it.
also, my personal opinion is that since i have not seen nor have i heard/read any scripture or minister/preacher/teacher/"prophet/ess" say otherwise, i do not think it incorrect or ungodly or out of "place" for a woman to approach a man. our singles ministry had a "summit" on exactly this topic. the women were like "we want to approach you guys but we feel that it is pastor's/the church's position that it is outside of the scope of what the bible says." the guys were like "we want to approach ya'll but some of ya'll look so mean, anti-social, and unapproachable that we don't wanna be bothered." LOL
there is no shame in my game as the saying goes. i will approach a man. if we engage in a conversation that leads to exchanging numbers and communicating further then so be it. if not we go our separate ways and i've made a new acquaintance. when i say approach i simply mean the woman initiates contact and that is all. i don't mean throwing lines or asking out on a date or fellowshipping, i simply mean initiate contact and see what happens nothing more.
back in the "olden days"
women had to have a chaperone and if a young man wanted to meet a young lady he had to go through her "people". i was raised by a mother who grew up in that fashion and i am old fashioned too. i soooo wish the times we live in now were more like back then but since they aren't, we have to adapt. plus seeing some bad choices some folx make, i don't think i'd trust too many ppl in this age to introduce some dude to me when they can't make a good call for themselves.side note: i chose when i was in jr hi or hs that i would prefer to remain unmarried. i still keep that option open but marriage is not my 1st choice. i use Paul as my example. he chose to remain unmarried and even opined that unmarried is better than being married. he did not teach that, it was just his personal opinion.
SEMO
Well-Known Member
I had to "position" myself to be found because my poor husband was so dense in the beginning!It took him MONTHS to realize that I liked him and then he had the nerve to tell me that he would have asked me out sooner if I had only made the fact that I was interested more obvious!
We met at school (Christian college) and I just knew he was the man for me, so you better believe I made sure to just-so-happen to be at all the same school functions, events, and bible studies that he was. I invited him to sit next to me in chapel, or to go out with a group of friends to a coffee shop, or have lunch me in the courtyard. I wasn't aggressive or desperate or pushy, I didn't go chasing him down, but I was out and about so he couldn't help but see me. I kept it lady like but I made myself known and after a while he took notice. I let him pursue me: the more he knew about me, the more he wanted to know; the more he spent time with me, the more he wanted to spend time with me; and the more he saw that I was a woman of God who eventually wanted a Godly husband, the more he wanted to make sure that he was that husband.
If I had kept to myself and not put myself in a position to be noticed, then I seriously doubt my shy DH would have asked me out of his own accord.
I like this story
. Men are pursuers, but women can do things to invite a man to pursue them. If a woman only goes to work, church and home, never lingering to chat people up or otherwise be friendly and sociable, a man might see that as off-putting. Women don't have to approach men but they should seem approachable. And that's where I think women need to be more realistic about their outward appearance. The Bible mentions many times how beautiful a woman is (ex. Sarah, Ruth, Esther, Rachel, etc), and that beauty often seems to be an integral part of the story. And Song of Solomon explicitly talks about the virtues of a beautiful woman
. I think everyone in the world agrees that men are visual. And there is nothing wrong with being godly beautiful (which is a combination of inner and outer beauty). I think beauty is only shallow when it's solely outward. On the flip side, a man may never get to your inner beauty if there's no outer beauty that initially catches his eye.
Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are many, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.
ETA:
JOJ, we are on the same wavelength about being approachable and presentable
.
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divya
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Thank you!
gn1g
Well-Known Member
I like this story
Women don't have to approach men but they should seem approachable. And that's where I think women need to be more realistic about their outward appearance. The Bible mentions many times how beautiful a woman is (ex. Sarah, Ruth, Esther, Rachel, etc), and that beauty often seems to be an integral part of the story. And Song of Solomon explicitly talks about the virtues of a beautiful woman
I think everyone in the world agrees that men are visual. And there is nothing wrong with being godly beautiful (which is a combination of inner and outer beauty). I think beauty is only shallow when it's solely outward. On the flip side, a man may never get to your inner beauty if there's no outer beauty that initially catches his eye.
Also, I like Michelle McKinney Hammond (I have several of her books), but despite all the books she writes, of which there are many, about relationships and how to get a man to marry you, she herself is still single. I think it would be wise to solicit advice from ladies successfully married, and not just singles.
ETA:
JOJ, we are on the same wavelength about being approachable and presentable
ITA and wondered if Michelle was still single.
Reading the book of Ruth this morning Ruth did approach BOAZ.
OT: I also notice that BOAZ was already a husband in that he was protecting and providing for Ruth when he first met her. Often times I hear my Bishop say she was already a wife when he met her.
I also like all the advice he gave to RUTH. The world needs more BOAZs instead of Bozos!
You might have something here.
Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.
Kbragg, you to funny
Bunny77
New Member
In reference to Janice's quote and Shalom's comment....
Its hard as single women to not cosume our thoughts on meeting the one but once you release it and truly forget about then that is when it will come. "Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies, it cannot be made alive." Our desires must die and be surrended so that it can manifest.
My question is... is this scriptural or is this belief a modern one spread in churches that has no Biblical basis? I think we hear comments so much like this in regards to singleness that we take it as scriptural, but I don't know of any Biblical directives that say that a desire for marriage must die so they can manifest...
Yes, we can surrender our requests to God and we should, but the idea that we must forget about our desire for marriage to make it happen is not necessarily one of God.
Here is an excerpt from Candice Watters' new book, "Get Married," in which she takes a Biblical approach to encourage single women to hope and prepare for marriage...
... If in the midst of these cultural realities, "just pray and wait" sentiments leave you depressed, I think you'll be encouraged by the message of this book: there's something you can do.
Whether you're wondering if you'll ever get a date, stuck in a "just-friends" relationship or worried that the guy you've been seeing forever will never move toward marriage, this book offers help. It's for all the women who long for marriage but are afraid to admit it; embarrassed by their deepest desires or concerned that maybe they want it too much. It's for the parents of single women who wonder if there's anything they can do. And it's for married friends of singles who want to help but don't want to intrude.
This is not another book about seeking fulfillment in your singleness. As beings created in God's image; we were designed for relationship — that's why extended singleness leaves so many women discontent. It's also why we should be intentional about finding fulfillment in marriage. Getting married isn't just something that's "nice if it happens." It's what most of us are called to pursue.
Pursue, but not dominate. I'm not advocating getting married at all costs. But marrying well, for God's glory, is a worthy pursuit. There's a difference between making it happen and helping it happen. I'm not going to parrot the "girl-power," feminist worldview. Men have a key role to play. And how the single women they know relate to them has everything to do with their momentum toward marriage. This isn't a book about desperation or the hyper activity of joining every dating service and singles group. You won't find a list of 100 tips for meeting a hot man or five things you can do today to help you get married tomorrow.
What you will find is a way to live like you're planning to marry. Not just having a hope chest — but cultivating a lifestyle that is consistent with the season of marriage ahead. A life that's in harmony with God's work on your behalf. A life that nurtures men and the community around you to play their role so that you don't have to carry it all. Finally, you'll find in the context of this marriage-minded lifestyle a new confidence to pray like you never have — trusting that marriage is a goal within your grasp. You can risk hoping that you will get married. You really can help it happen.
Its hard as single women to not cosume our thoughts on meeting the one but once you release it and truly forget about then that is when it will come. "Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies, it cannot be made alive." Our desires must die and be surrended so that it can manifest.
You might have something here.
Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.
Kbragg, you to funny
My question is... is this scriptural or is this belief a modern one spread in churches that has no Biblical basis? I think we hear comments so much like this in regards to singleness that we take it as scriptural, but I don't know of any Biblical directives that say that a desire for marriage must die so they can manifest...
Yes, we can surrender our requests to God and we should, but the idea that we must forget about our desire for marriage to make it happen is not necessarily one of God.
Here is an excerpt from Candice Watters' new book, "Get Married," in which she takes a Biblical approach to encourage single women to hope and prepare for marriage...
... If in the midst of these cultural realities, "just pray and wait" sentiments leave you depressed, I think you'll be encouraged by the message of this book: there's something you can do.
Whether you're wondering if you'll ever get a date, stuck in a "just-friends" relationship or worried that the guy you've been seeing forever will never move toward marriage, this book offers help. It's for all the women who long for marriage but are afraid to admit it; embarrassed by their deepest desires or concerned that maybe they want it too much. It's for the parents of single women who wonder if there's anything they can do. And it's for married friends of singles who want to help but don't want to intrude.
This is not another book about seeking fulfillment in your singleness. As beings created in God's image; we were designed for relationship — that's why extended singleness leaves so many women discontent. It's also why we should be intentional about finding fulfillment in marriage. Getting married isn't just something that's "nice if it happens." It's what most of us are called to pursue.
Pursue, but not dominate. I'm not advocating getting married at all costs. But marrying well, for God's glory, is a worthy pursuit. There's a difference between making it happen and helping it happen. I'm not going to parrot the "girl-power," feminist worldview. Men have a key role to play. And how the single women they know relate to them has everything to do with their momentum toward marriage. This isn't a book about desperation or the hyper activity of joining every dating service and singles group. You won't find a list of 100 tips for meeting a hot man or five things you can do today to help you get married tomorrow.
What you will find is a way to live like you're planning to marry. Not just having a hope chest — but cultivating a lifestyle that is consistent with the season of marriage ahead. A life that's in harmony with God's work on your behalf. A life that nurtures men and the community around you to play their role so that you don't have to carry it all. Finally, you'll find in the context of this marriage-minded lifestyle a new confidence to pray like you never have — trusting that marriage is a goal within your grasp. You can risk hoping that you will get married. You really can help it happen.
MissNatural
New Member
ITA and wondered if Michelle was still single.
Reading the book of Ruth this morning Ruth did approach BOAZ.
OT: I also notice that BOAZ was already a husband in that he was protecting and providing for Ruth when he first met her. Often times I hear my Bishop say she was already a wife when he met her.
I also like all the advice he gave to RUTH. The world needs more BOAZs instead of Bozos![/QUOTE]
I LOVE that last line!!! I'm going to borrow it
envybeauty
New Member
Good point! I heard on the radio tonight a preacher talking about this very thing. He pointed out that the scripture says "he who finds a WIFE (not he who finds a woman) finds a good thing" -- as in not every woman is a good thing for a man. The pastor was addressing men because he believes men just go looking for a woman (or two
) instead of looking for a wife.Ruth was a wife and not just a woman.
Hi Bunny77,
For me the word "surrender" means to let go, give it up and yes, forget. I can't speak for anyone else, but when I leave a situation in God's hand I forget about it, why should I worry or concern myself with something God is in control of. God said he would give us the desires of our heart, because I forget it that doesn't mean the desire is gone. I believe God will bless based on the desires of the heart. I hope that brings more clarity to my comment.
No, "preparing" and "positioning" are very different. As women, if we want to be wives then we should be a wife in spirit first. In God's economy, in order for something to manifest in the physical realm we must first possess it in the spirit (supernatural realm). Do you want a husband, then believe God will bless you with one according to his timing and leave it there. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
Matthew 21:21. Fall back and let God do the rest!
Ladies, what God has for us is for us! Gifts are unmerited, you don't have to "work" for any gift that God has for you,...... just simply believe. Only doubt and sin can delay marriage in your life if that is God's will for you.
Most ladies I have observed in real life that want a husband are putting themselves in the guys way,calling him, dressing to attract, joining the same ministry as him, etc to get close to him (this is what I mean by positioning) when they should be using that same energy into learning how to cook and change a diaper, and most importantly grow spirtually. If God has marriage in his will for you it will happen!
This may be viewed as being "proactive" and not "positioning " per say but if the motive in doing these things is to "increase" your chances of getting a husband then you have a lot of work in store for you. Ruth and Esther were "proactive" in being out and about but their first and foremost thought was to please God. They were not double-minded as to why they did things, and hence God rewarded them with "the desires of their heart". Be proactive and dress attractively with only one person in mind...your heavenly Father, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else will come when its suppose to!
Best to be prepared for something than getting it when you are not ready for it! Quite frankly, I don't know alot of young women that can cook these days or possess most attrributes that a wife would need in order to be the helpmate to their spouses that God has called them to be. And you know what if you don't ever get a husband, well at least you can throw down in the kitchen!
Now I know that superwoman does not exist, but at least have the basics covered and then talk about being ready to get married. Marriage is just not about sex and romance but a ministry in itself. Learn how to pray so that you can cover that man when the enemy tries to come in like a flood and attack him. He will be faced with many pressures as the leader of your household, and at those times it won't be the sex that is going to get him through those tough times (might take his mind off of things, lol) but a praying wife will help him to stand when he is at his lowest!
P.S. The latter part of this post is not directed at anyone specifically,.... merely just observations that I have noticed in real life.
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nychaelasymone
Well-Known Member
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Co-Signing, sometimes our desires can overwhelm, worry and even preoccupy our thoughts that they become an IDOl for us and thus our God. Everything we do and how we act is dictated by this IDOL that we have not control over. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married and I would be a big liar if I said I did not want to get married. But it is important to not let this thing control us and dictate us as to what ministries to join, how to dress, have an impressive personality to attract potential future spouse, etc. Just be yourself. God loves change (good change) but with him in mind. He is a jealous God that will not share you with other Gods.
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Phillipians 4:6-7
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You might have something here.
Finish preaching, I'm interested in what you have to say regarding your last paragraph.
Kbragg, you to funny
Hey Kbragg, I was going to just basically stress that there are many factors as to why less marriages are taking place among christians such as high female to low male ratio in the church, people taking longer to get established in their careers thus not being ready for marriage, down-low men, lack of spirtual maturity, sin, etc. Well with that said, that leaves just about 0.01% of men in this world that are ready to get married, lol (j/k)
Hmmmmmm if you ask me, looks like the odds are more favorable with God.I know that he has the best for all of us though who wait and trust upon the Lord! Its hard waiting but I know it will be so worth it!
Browndilocks
Browndisha Brownie Sundae
I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me: it's her.
gn1g
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me: it's her.
I think so too.
Actually she thinks the man for her is Bishop Noel Jones, theres at least a 1000 other women that think the same thing.
Browndilocks
Browndisha Brownie Sundae
AWWWW DANGITT!!!
She's going to have to get through his real woman first. He does have a woman and she ain't 54. Yall ain't know? It could be just a local known thing but I'm not saying anything more than that.
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I'm sorry but 54 years old and single only says one thing to me: it's her.
Lol, Well God can only lead you to the water...
Bwahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!
Ok seriously.... a LONGTIME fellow church sister of mine USED to believe this as well....and my church sisterfriend has a DIRECT CONTACT to him so um... your 50-something sisterfriend should EXPAND her horizons...my sisterfriend already has....
chicacanella
New Member
Bunny77
New Member
I love this topic, if you haven't noticed.
I like what you've said here... and I agree with your idea of surrender. For me, I won't "forget" my desires -- as that's just not natural for me to do, but I won't stress about them.
I'll just have faith that God knows the desires of my heart and that He'll work to fulfill them. And I'll no longer worry!
So yes, I agree with you!
Bunny77
New Member
Hi Janice!
Thanks for explaining. I think we agree on a number of things, and differ on some, but it's all good.
Here are my thoughts.
I COMPLETELY agree with your first two paragraphs! No debate there!
In terms of positioning... I am also in agreement that women waste too much time calling a man and "chasing" -- I don't recommend that at all. As for joining his ministry, wouldn't do that either unless it is something that truly interests you and that you'd do anyway, not just for a man.
Dressing to attract... well it depends. I don't see a problem in emphasizing one's physical beauty, as long as it's not done to provoke lust. In other words, a little makeup is fine, a cleavage-exposing dress... not!
My point of disagreement is the question of whether God has marriage in His will for us. I think that his basic design for his people means that marriage is in His will for ALL of us (unless one is specifically called to celibate service). Now, not all of us will get married because we live in a sinful world, etc., etc., but I think that too many women waste time and energy wondering if marriage is God's will for us when it most certainly is!
So yes, we should be preparing to be wives because that is God's will... and like you said, sin and doubt are the things that get in the way of something that we are willed to have and should desire!
Bunny77
New Member
Okay... I have a few thoughts on this entire post... let me see if I get them out correctly.
I went to Michelle McKinney Hammond's website and found this answer to the question about her single status...
Why isn’t Michelle married?
Though she certainly has had the opportunity to be married, Michelle has chosen this season of her life to devote to her ministry and it is all consuming. After suffering in the area of love and struggling to walk victoriously with God as a single she couldn’t wait to share the keys to success that she has learned with others. It is her passion for men and women to be able to experience rich, fulfilling love lives and the overcoming power that can be found in having a working knowledge of the word of God along with an intimate, passionate love affair with the
One who loves us most. She knows that this is a season that will soon pass and she is making the most of it until God moves her into another season where her attention will have to be divided (with balance) between ministry and family life.
http://www.michellehammond.com/didyouknow/index.html
Okay, fair enough... but my issue is this... while Ms. Hammond does a great job of encouraging single women, for me as a 30-year-old single woman who plans to be married, Hammond is also a very visible symbol to me of someone I DO NOT want to become.
I do not want to be a late-40 something, never-married woman still talking about maximizing my single life. While I think that learning such lessons are important, I also believe that if you focus SO heavily on living this maximized single life, you become an expert at... STAYING SINGLE!
And sorry, but that's not what I want. I think that Ms. Hammond can provide a lot of inspiration, but her works are things I'd also hope to "grow out of," so to speak, as I prepare for the next stage.
This is why my preferred inspirations now are women who remained single longer than they might have expected, but did get married and have children and are now encouraging other single Christian sisters to do things to help them also "get married."
There is definitely a place for all types of Christian authors on this subject, but I think Hammond gets too much play in the single Christian female community, honestly, and I find some of this focus actually to be damaging.
You know what... let me break this up into two posts... I have a few separate thoughts on this issue and don't want to make this one too long!
Bunny77
New Member
Hmmm...
Here's the thing though. I see what you're saying, but when it comes to marriage throughout history (including Biblical history), there were always people who worked to make marriage happen for the young people in their families and communities.
It was never "only" God doing the work and folks being patient. Parents worked to bring couples together, as did churches. In some cultures, communities have matchmakers specifically designed for this purpose (it's a Jewish tradition, for example).
The concept that we cannot help ourselves and others to marry well is a modern one, and something I also consider a lie permeating the church. The marriage process has been one that's INTERdependent with God... if a community recognizes that it IS God's will for people to marry and raise children, then they are working for God's glory by ensuring that quality marriages take place.
We don't have that today. Churches are telling us (usually women only) how to prepare for marriage, but they aren't guiding us toward it because then it's seen as usurping God's will.
All the while, we're perhaps missing out on a blessing in our lives because somehow we've super-spiritualized singleness...
I'm gonna sign off now, but I'll throw out another excerpt from one of my favorite author on this topic, Candice Watters, in which she addressed this issue in an interview.
http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000006484.cfm
4. Many Christian women have been taught to just sit back and trust God to bring the right person. Tell me what you think about that statement.
There was a time in our culture when women got married without much effort. Our social structures, as well as expectations, moved young people to early marriage. That is no longer the case. Now, few, if any, expectations to marry remain — and that’s especially harmful for men — and the social supports that used to help people marry, now keep them single.
Yes, singles must trust God, now more than ever. But “waiting on God” is not a passive exercise. Exodus 14:13-16 is a good example of the way God calls us to be active participants in the work He does on our behalf. Getting married is no different.
5. What steps can single women take so they won't be alone for Valentine's Days to come?
The best relationship singles can pursue now is with a mentor — an older Christian who is married well. In our post-marriage culture, singles need a network. It’s essential to have the prayer and practical support of believers who are further along in life.
It’s far easier, and less awkward, to seek the advice of peers. But older women, and couples, have a lot more to offer. Mentors are key to moving from what’s probable — 85 percent of singles eventually marry — to what’s possible — marrying well for our good and God’s glory (and in a timely manner). Mentors can be helpful allies with insights, advice, open doors and even introductions.
My favorite thing about her? She did exactly what she mentioned above and through these efforts, she married well. THAT'S a message that inspires me about my future marriage and gives me greater faith in God about what He has in store... not someone advising me how to maximize my single life! (Hammond)
I'm have been guilty of the bolded. I should be ashamed to say that, but it's true. Ms. Janice: What if you just can't cook. I'm tnot alking don't cook and not liking to cook, but I'm talking about cooking and the taste is horrible, you can't even stand to eat it.
Now, I can provide a healthful meal for him to eat, but it won't be one I cooked.
I'm pretty efficient in all other areas of taking care of the home cept that. I even have him covered in prayer.
SEMO
Well-Known Member
Okay... I have a few thoughts on this entire post... let me see if I get them out correctly.
I went to Michelle McKinney Hammond's website and found this answer to the question about her single status...
Why isn’t Michelle married?
Though she certainly has had the opportunity to be married, Michelle has chosen this season of her life to devote to her ministry and it is all consuming. After suffering in the area of love and struggling to walk victoriously with God as a single she couldn’t wait to share the keys to success that she has learned with others. It is her passion for men and women to be able to experience rich, fulfilling love lives and the overcoming power that can be found in having a working knowledge of the word of God along with an intimate, passionate love affair with the
One who loves us most. She knows that this is a season that will soon pass and she is making the most of it until God moves her into another season where her attention will have to be divided (with balance) between ministry and family life.
http://www.michellehammond.com/didyouknow/index.html
Okay, fair enough... but my issue is this... while Ms. Hammond does a great job of encouraging single women, for me as a 30-year-old single woman who plans to be married, Hammond is also a very visible symbol to me of someone I DO NOT want to become.
I do not want to be a late-40 something, never-married woman still talking about maximizing my single life. While I think that learning such lessons are important, I also believe that if you focus SO heavily on living this maximized single life, you become an expert at... STAYING SINGLE!
And sorry, but that's not what I want. I think that Ms. Hammond can provide a lot of inspiration, but her works are things I'd also hope to "grow out of," so to speak, as I prepare for the next stage.
This is why my preferred inspirations now are women who remained single longer than they might have expected, but did get married and have children and are now encouraging other single Christian sisters to do things to help them also "get married."
There is definitely a place for all types of Christian authors on this subject, but I think Hammond gets too much play in the single Christian female community, honestly, and I find some of this focus actually to be damaging.
You know what... let me break this up into two posts... I have a few separate thoughts on this issue and don't want to make this one too long!
Me and you are >>>here<<<
Finding ways to be a "better single woman" does not sound like someone who is preparing/positioning (whatever word you prefer) herself for marriage.
Real Talk Alert!:
I honestly think that she has found herself a formula that has made her a lot of money (writing "cheer up singleness is great" books that tap into the pain of a lot of single Christian women) and so she has incentive to promote singleness. If she got married then she would have to teach women not just how to be single (which she has lots of experience with) but about how to be godly wives (which is much harder).
I loved her book "What to Do Until Love Finds you" and think that she summed up nicely what she had to say on the subject in that book (which was the 1st or second book she wrote). So the 50-11 books she's written since then (which mostly seem like watered down re-hashings of the same subject) seem like someone staying close to their "cash cow." How many books does she need to write on singleness before she's exhausted the subject?
I'll show you how many in my next post b/c the list is too long to fit in one post.
