Have You Ever Spoken In Tongues?

[lilvudufly]

I'm concerned about that post refering to calling out in the name of Lord. In the event of a miracle or a breakthrough it is perfectly normal to shout. People shout at sports or music why not cry unto the Lord. I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon. Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships. That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.

 

[Laela]

I speak in tongues, but only as the Holy Ghost gives utterance when I submit to the Spirit in prayer or otherwise. I believe that not everyone will speak or pray in tongues, but anyone can. It is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and not speaking in tongues doesn't mean a person isn't saved or won't keep anyone from going to heaven.

The Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues are two different things.

The Bible clearly says that all saved persons have received the Holy Ghost (I Corin 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. Not all saved people speak in tongues.

I do, however, believe that for the Believer who constantly seek to always be in God's presence, the Holy Ghost will start revealing more to them. They will be on another level.

Also, a saved person CAN feel the Holy Spirit move and not fall out or do somersaults or scream, hoop and holla. The very presence of God's Spirit is intense, and sometimes our flesh cannot handle it well, thus some will experience these physical manifestations. I also believe it's very much possible that people can overdo it or "act up" long after the Spirit has moved -- that's when the emotions take over. But we can't adeptly serve God only on emotions.

God Bless you for approaching this topic with such grace....

This issue has come up several times in this forum. There are those who believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of "saved" status ....evidence of being a christian. There are those who believe it's essential to the christian walk and even those who believe that it's evidence that the person has entered into a relationship with Jesus. What are your thoughts on this? Have you ever spoken in tongues and do you believe that those who have never spoken in tongues are hell-bound?
.

 

[Raspberry]

I'm concerned about that post refering to calling out in the name of Lord. In the event of a miracle or a breakthrough it is perfectly normal to shout. People shout at sports or music why not cry unto the Lord. I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon. Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships. That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.

I absolutely agree It's all well and good to talk about how folks act in church but the true evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit at work is a changed heart and life. We all have to exercise faith and self-control we all have to make multiple decisions a day to follow the path of righteousness when we don't feel spiritual at all and would rather do what feels good.

We can't experience all that God has for us if we're not walking according to His word - and in fact we can quench the power of the Spirit through our actions. That's why you'll see some powerful ministers of God who prophecy, heal, and all that fall into serious sin. Their gifts don't replace their daily faith walk and renewing of the mind through the word.

It is only embracing God's love that changes us, and by His love that we receive gifts from the Spirit.

 

[Laela]

This is true..and explains why when the Holy Ghost moves only some people receive and praise and/or speak in tongues while others stare or are not moved at all.

Not everyone attending a baseball game is a fan of baseball.

You have to believe first in order to recieve and do the acts of Jesus (John 14:12). That is the truth in accepting God as your Lord and Savior, health, prosperity, and yes tongues. In (Luke 16: 15-20) Talks about new tongues as a sign of belief it also speaks about healing. In Acts 8 Acts 10 and Acts 11. These chapter talk about how you can believe and receive God but how some also receive the Holy Spirit. With the Holy spirit comes tongues but more importantly comes the power to heal and do acts of goodness.

 

[Laela]

------------- Preach!

I do think there is a time and place for that i.e. praise and worship oppose to the middle of a sermon. Tongues are the evidence of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water (the repentence of sins) as John did. Tongues or evidence really should not be the focus. The Power to heal, lay hands, do goodness etc. talked about in ACTS should be main focus. What difference does it make if you have tongue evidence but no evidence of God in your life. No show of his power in your affairs or relationships. That is the power or evidence I want, the good thing is that tongues accompany that. For me I have to really be filled up with the Word of God (bible, service, tapes, music, fellowship) continuously and be really in tune spiritually to feel the presence of tongues in my prayer life. In other word my spiritual tank has to be full in order to utter Gods words. That usually comes with time, persistence and consistency.

 

[Laela]

I agree that it is important to read the Bible for ourselves.... the Day of Pentecost is what you're referring to (book of Acts ). It occurred shortly after Christ was resurrected and returned to heaven. Before he left, Jesus told his disciples in John 14 that God will send the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, to earth in his stead:

".. I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

The Day of Pentecost is the evidence of the Holy Ghost's arrival. There could not be another day of Pentecost, of course, because he is now here. But people always have been speaking in tongues... which does mean language...another language not native to THAT speaker. It's like with the infilling of the Holy Ghost. This also occurs only once. Subsequently, that saved person always will be "filled with the Spirit" when he moves but they can only be infilled once.

When I read in Acts at Pentacost when the disciples recieved the holy spirit they began speaking in tongues but all the people from all over outside of the building---- each heard in their own language. it served a purpose but there is no other time it happen as such but the disciples had their own gifts some could actually speak another language as their gifts after receiving the holy spirit, some had healing and various other gifts.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

This never happens again in the bible where all the disciples are together. We always have to be careful of Satan and his many many lies and tricks. You must carefully search the scriptures for real truth and not words given by others. It doesn't matter if your church is doing it or not we have to stand before God on our own convictions and we have no excuse because we have the word of God to read for ourselves.

You've actually got a point there because I read another interpretation of this and it's an orthodox perspective. They said essentially that it was something that happened once. Subsequent speaking in tongues is different. If I find that article, I will cite it here. I'm not knowledgeable about the charismatic movement but there is someone I can ask. I was wondering about the various sects and their version of what tongues is and when it is appropriate.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Yes, I've had a conversation with God in tongues before. And get this...it wasn't in church. I actually question the validity of tongues spoken in church. Most especially when preachers do it in the pulpit. I've never heard my pastor speak in tongues, but I have seen a few people in my church do it to 'prove' their spirituality, I won't say I hate it, but it's a pet peeve of mine since being authentically baptized by the Holy Spirit. I can't even begin to try and repeat the tongues I spoke in, but there are some that seemed to have a 'practiced' tongue. Most especially "Eekadabobo" There was a time when I was in church feeling high in the Spirit and this speaker started with that "Eekadabobo" and the Spirit spoke through me in two syllables and that speaker stopped.

Forgive me y'all...but a relative of mine always quotes the folks who utter the same...."hababashembashonda...." And she says, "I didn't think that Jesus came in a Honda!" LOLOL! I've seen a best friend that I know was a good and holy person speak in tongues....and then I've witnessed those who speak "hababashemdahonda" Robert Tilton is one of them ahahahahahaha. The "farting" preacher who I think that it's quite obvious he is a fake one.

 

[MuseofTroy]

Speaking in Tongues is a gift of the spirit. It is not a requirement for salvation.

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God (John 1:12). Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him (John 3:36). I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, he has crossed over from death to life (John 5:24). For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

The requirements for salvation to believe that Jesus died for our sins and only through him can we get to heaven. So anyone who says otherwise is INCORRECT.

As an individual grows in their relationship with Christ, there are gifts of the spirit that are given to followers.

1 Corinthians 12- discusses gifts that are given to the body of the church: 1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Some of the gifts given to the body of Christ include
• word of wisdom / message of wisdom, 1Cor 12:8
• word of knowledge / message of knowledge, 1 Cor 12:8
• faith, 1 Cor 12:9
• gifts of healing, 1 Cor 12:9, 12:28
• miracles / miraculous powers, 1 Cor 12:10, 12:28
• prophecy / prophesying / prophets, 1 Cor 12:10, 1 Cor 12:28, Rom 12:6, Eph 4:11
• discernment of spirits / distinguishing of spirits, 1 Cor 12:10
• speaking in tongues / varieties of tongues / speaking in different kinds of tongues, 1 Cor 12:10
• interpretation of tongues, 1 Cor 12:10


Gifts of the Spirit is also mentioned in Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12,13 & 14, Ephesians 4

Apostle: One sent by God with a holy mission to fulfill; and the supernatural power and spiritual gifts to fulfill the mission. Known by the fruit of the spirit overflowing. Apostolic ministry involves laying foundation. In the case of Paul and Barnabas, we see this expressed in 'church planting' by preaching the Gospel in new areas. Apostles in scripture worked in teams. An apostolic team shared a 'measure of rule' in churches started through their ministry in regions where they are the first to proclaim the Gospel of Christ. (II Corinthians 10.)

Prophet: One who speaks, or communicates a message, authoritatively, as moved by the Holy Ghost. Known by their good fruit.

Evangelist: Someone who desires that all should come to know the truth that God loves everyone so much that He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for their redemption, or someone who is gifted to proclaim this message.

Pastor: A word that means 'shepherd.' Pastors are gifted to lead, guide, and set an example for other Christians.

Teacher: Someone able to understand the more difficult things of God and explain them in a way that is easy to understand and live by in daily life.

Service: Supernatural ability to do for others whatever needs to be done. Divine ability to carry another burden or task without notice or earthly reward.

Exhortation: the ability to motivate Christians to do the works of Christ.

Giving: being blessed by God with resources or time and being able to give them where and when they are needed with a cheerful heart.

Leadership: God-given insight into when something needs to be done, who can do it, how it can be completed, and how to lead those people to get it accomplished.

Mercy: A heart to care for and encourage those who are not able to care for themselves and whom no one else would care for. Knowing who to help and when to help.

Word of wisdom: A message, concept, or bit of wisdom that God reveals supernaturally to the recipient. It may or may not be shared with others.

Word of knowledge: A message, concept, or bit of knowledge that God reveals supernaturally to the recipient. It may or may not be shared with others.

Tongues: First use is a supernatural ability to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it. Second use is a supernatural ability to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it; to build up the body of Christ when the message is interpreted. It is the language of the Holy Spirit.

Interpretation of tongues: Supernatural ability to make tongues a clear message to all that are present to edify, exhort and comfort the body of Christ.

Prophecy: Supernatural ability to receive a message from God to edify, exhort and comfort the body of Christ or a believer. To speak as moved by the Holy Spirit. Not all prophecies contain predictions about the future.

Working of miracles: The ability to perform supernatural acts by the Spirit of God.

Gifts of healing: Supernatural ability to bring or release healing to a person in their body or soul.

Ability to distinguish between spirits: Supernatural ability to know what is from God and what is not from God. Divine ability to reveal a demonic spirit or influence and bring God's power (Jesus' blood) and God's love (Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection) in its place.

Faith: Knowing what you hope for, having a conviction about things you cannot see, trusting God, believing God’s Word, and obeying God. (See Hebrews 11)

So ladies, as an individual grows with their relationship with Christ, they may receive certain spiritual gifts to serve the purpose of God. There is nothing to be afraid of when someone is speaking in tongues. In fact I was one of those people who use to be turned off by the sight, but I was coming from a place of ignorance. So my advice is that before we give our “opinions” about certain biblical issues, do your research. So many people read this board and the last thing any Christian should want is to give wrong information.

Here VERY good article on wikipedia on gits of the holy spirit which is where I took some of the examples. Usually Wikipedia's sources are questionable but this time the information is very useful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifts_of_the_Holy_Spirit

 

[MuseofTroy]

hey man, you don't know what happened, you weren't there...
that is an interpretation, not saying its wrong, but to some of us (like me) tongues is really farfetched, you gotta come a little harder than that if ur gonna convince me homegirl...
I'm saved and I have one tongue that speaks English

You know Music I'm slightly concerned about some of your comments on the Christian board. If you are genuinely interested in learning about the bible and the different aspects of Christianity, why don't you contact a pastor or a friend who is knowledgeable to explain some of the concepts that you haven't grasped? Correct me if I'm wrong but are you interested in learning or just challenging certain beliefs? What's your purpose?

The reason I'm asking is because how you are coming off is going to turn people away from engaging you in conversation, at least in the Christian board. I think most of the ladies really do like to share and learn more about being a Christian and the different aspects of God. I think before you post anything else you should ask yourself "what purpose am I serving? Will I make a valuable contribution to the discussion. Will this be an opprotunity for someone to learn?" If you can't answer your own question or the answer is no, then perhaps you should observe until you have something meaningful to add to the discussion.

 

[Laela]

Well, David was a man after God's own heart yet he had a man killed to take his wife...

God commanded us to not forsake the gathering of ourselves, so the purpose of meeting with other believers to worship helps keep us on track and refresh our spirits - despite what's going on in our lives. Worship is a personal thing and who is to say what someone's state of mind is during a service? They could be hell on wheels outside but when they're in the sanctuary/dome/church, God could be dealing with them.
Bu I do understand what you mean about faking..that is possible as well.

I do not believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation because I have seen so many people speak in tongues and I was like "I know they aint saved". Yes I guess that was being judgemental. But if you know someone is stepping out on their wife then jumping, and dancing, and speaking in tongues in church, don't you think it must be fake? IDK, I just think too many people fake it for me to say it's evidence of salvation. It's a church requirement for salvation at many churches. I really love the services in those churches, too, but that's not the evidence.

 

[Blaque*Angel]

i always said i never believed in it unless it happened to my mother.

it happened at church last week!! she describes a feeling of extreme thirst, wanting to cry, and feeling so overwhelmed with positivity and love

i am now a believer

 

[blazingthru]

Yup, and everyone has different convictions based on their interpretation of the word. I think that's why the question was asked in the first place because speaking in tongues is one of the things that is debated over and over again and there still isn't one uniform conclusion.

I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about. Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched. God is not a God of disorder. I thought it was strange that people spoke this way and waited for it to happen to me and it never did so I researched it and found that it doesn't happen again in the bible. This served a purpose for the apostles at that time that they all spoke in different languages. It was for the glorification of our Father, those people were amazed to hear the disciples praising God in their own Tongues anything more is something else entirely.

1. Proverbs 14:6
   A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it,But knowledge is easy to him who understands.
   Proverbs 14:5-7 (in Context) Proverbs 14 (Whole Chapter)
2. Ecclesiastes 1:13
   And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised.
   Ecclesiastes 1:12-14 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 1 (Whole Chapter)
3. Ecclesiastes 7:25
   I applied my heart to know, To search and seek out wisdom and the reason of things,To know the wickedness of folly, Even of foolishness and madness.
   Ecclesiastes 7:24-26 (in Context) Ecclesiastes 7 (Whole Chapter)
4. Acts 6:3
   Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business;
   Acts 6:2-4 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
5. 1 Corinthians 1:22
   For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
   1 Corinthians 1:21-23 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter)

 

[mamaore]

Now I understand, why this is a touchy topic. So this is my final contribution.

On any topic/issue in Christianity...never, never, ever, ever have a closed mind/spirit.

Be always teachable, and keep praying for revelation of the rhema of Gods word and you will know all things. Remember you can never understand God with your mind or common sense, you can't reason God out except with your spirit. God is a spirit.

Ask any pastor, or your spiritual mentor(if you have one), their knowledge of God is progressive. You know more by and by if your heart is open.

Father, I ask in Jesus Name that everyone who has contributed to this thread in one form or the other have their eyes of their understanding enlightened continually in the whole truth of the word. I pray that you will continually help us to understand fully your whole counsel, that we may rightly didvide the word of truth.

Lord, let us know you more, let us fully comprehend with all the saints the mighty power that is at work in us and who we are in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen!.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

We can't experience all that God has for us if we're not walking according to His word - and in fact we can quench the power of the Spirit through our actions. That's why you'll see some powerful ministers of God who prophecy, heal, and all that fall into serious sin. Their gifts don't replace their daily faith walk and renewing of the mind through the word.

It is only embracing God's love that changes us, and by His love that we receive gifts from the Spirit.

I do not comprehend this. If walking closer with G-d would open one up to these types of spiritual gifts, then why would they even have these gifts of prophecy, healing and such when they are living in sin?

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I am new here, so havent been privy to other threads on this subject.

First of all, I encourage us all to always pray the pauline prayers in Ehpesians 1:17-20 3:14-19. There is another one in Colossians.
When I dont understand something, I always pray this prayers for myself and I as I read the bible, study and research other materials, my spirit becomes enlightened to receive more rhema from his word on the given subject.

Always remember we know in part, God has so much for us, that our spirit has not grasped yet, scriptures says the carnal mind cannot understand the things of the spirit as they are foolishness to him.
We can never understand tongues or the gift of tongues with our minds, only with our spirit.

The spirit of a man knows what are his thoughts, so the spirit of God knows the fullness of God for us.
Salvation: Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and God raised him from the dead. For further clarification Read Romans chapter 10. espcially verses 9-11.

When we are saved we have a measure of the holy spirit. How ever the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is an overflowing in abundance.

Tongues is an added bonus to salvation, just like healing or prosperity, or other gifts of the spirits is an added bonus.

There are many advantages to speaking in tongues - First is prayer; we do not always know how we ought to pray or what we ought to pray for, but the spirit helps us in our infirmities with groanings wihich cannot be uttered (dont remember where that is).

Paul said I will pray with my understanding and I will pray in the spirit. When we pray in tongues, you are always praying the will of God for your life, stuff your mind has not yet fanthomed or cannot yet bear.

The gift of tongues is another level and is a gift of the spirit like prophecy.

I hope I have helped someone with this.

Now I understand, why this is a touchy topic. So this is my final contribution.

On any topic/issue in Christianity...never, never, ever, ever have a closed mind/spirit.

Be always teachable, and keep praying for revelation of the rhema of Gods word and you will know all things. Remember you can never understand God with your mind or common sense, you can't reason God out except with your spirit. God is a spirit.

Ask any pastor, or your spiritual mentor(if you have one), their knowledge of God is progressive. You know more by and by if your heart is open.

Father, I ask in Jesus Name that everyone who has contributed to this thread in one form or the other have their eyes of their understanding enlightened continually in the whole truth of the word. I pray that you will continually help us to understand fully your whole counsel, that we may rightly didvide the word of truth.

Lord, let us know you more, let us fully comprehend with all the saints the mighty power that is at work in us and who we are in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen!.

Welcome!

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Everyone is welcome to post their opinion in this thread. Personalities will clash...but all I see are valid questionings, answers and grey area.

 

[aribell]

I did not know that the gift of interpretation was considered rare - I have witnessed it many many times in different churches but of course all of our church experiences can be drastically different.

No, I don't think interpretation was considered rare. I was just trying to say that in the NT, Paul specifically says that tongues shouldn't be spoken in church without an interpreter. But today, many more churches and ministers, prayers, etc. go off in "tongues" with no one coming forward to interpret.

I don't think that this is only because people aren't paying attention to Paul's instruction. I also think it's because for a lot of people, speaking in tongues is a learned thing and also because it is a spiritual phenomenon experienced in non-Christian faiths (like Hindus) as well and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Spirit...so there probably isn't an interpretation to be given at all. I believe that there are tongues that are Spirit-based and those that have to do with our own emotions and mental state while in an intense prayer posture.

What other faiths don't experience, however, is someone coming forward to interpret what the tongues say, or someone from another part of the world who actually speaks that language coming forward and saying that they understood the tongues because it was actually in their native language.

Anyway! JMO, I don't question the gift. I don't think, though that it's presence has much to do with spiritual maturity, as brand new Christians in the NT spoke in tongues and experienced other miraculous events. Plus, Galatians tells us what the fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, etc. And Jesus said that those who do the will of God are the true followers. Tongues may be an evidence of the presence of the Spirit, but is by no means the only or even primary one.

 

[Laela]

What you seem to be confusing is the Day of Pentecost (when God's Holy Ghost was sent) with all instances of speaking in tongues since that day. God only needed to send the Spirit of the Godhead to us from Heaven one time.

If you research your Bible some more, you'll see in the books of Peter and Jude references to the Holy Spirit after he was sent from heaven.

There is a clear reference in Jude where we are encouraged to pray in the Holy Spirit (tongues) in order to build up our faith:

"But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit."
Jude 1:20

God is a spiritual diety... applying logic and reasoning to his Word will leave even the most intelligent person baffled and confused. Our hearts must be open to receive God and his Word, becuase he won't force himself on us otherwise. Wisdom comes from God. Intellect is of man.

I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about. Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched. God is not a God of disorder. I thought it was strange that people spoke this way and waited for it to happen to me and it never did so I researched it and found that it doesn't happen again in the bible. This served a purpose for the apostles at that time that they all spoke in different languages. It was for the glorification of our Father, those people were amazed to hear the disciples praising God in their own Tongues anything more is something else entirely.

 

[msa]

I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about. Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched.

Having researched, studied, and prayed about the word, I've come to a different conclusion.

That was my point. Everyone can read, research, study, and pray about the same scripture and still have different conclusions. That's why there are so many different sects of Christianity. Now I'm not saying you, or Veejee, or anyone else is "wrong", I'm just saying we have a different understanding.

 

[aribell]

I understand what your saying but our convictions must be based on the word of God that we have studied and researched and prayed about. Not something a person read and thats it. The bible is designed for study and researched. God is not a God of disorder.

What you seem to be confusing is the Day of Pentecost (when God's Holy Ghost was sent) with all instances of speaking in tongues since that day. God only needed to send the Spirit of the Godhead to us from Heaven one time.

If you research your Bible some more, you'll see in the books of Peter and Jude references to the Holy Spirit after he was sent from heaven.

There is a clear reference in Jude where we are encouraged to pray in the Holy Spirit (tongues) in order to build up our faith:

"But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit."
Jude 1:20

God is a spiritual diety... applying logic and reasoning to his Word will leave even the most intelligent person baffled and confused. Our hearts must be open to receive God and his Word, becuase he won't force himself on us otherwise. Wisdom comes from God. Intellect is of man.

I don't understand the distinction being made between reasoning and faith. Blazingthru said she read the Bible and came to a particular conclusion based on what she believed it said. That's what we're supposed to do. God said, "Come, let us reason together." We are also told to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

The Bible never condemns intellect as being merely human. Rather it is the "wisdom of the world" spoken of in Corinthians that we are to guard against. And the wisdom of the world isn't about not using our reasoning skills but about the world's values and ways of thinking. No, we'll never come to the truth if we think the way the world thinks, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't think critically about our spiritual experiences or our interpretation of the Bible. We grow in having "the mind of Christ" as we continually learn what the Bible says and understand what it is requiring of us. You can't do that without reason and intellect.

Also, Jude doesn't say that praying in the Spirit means praying with tongues. Is there somewhere else where that connection is made?

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

Girl Imma need you to stop - I just busted out laughing for real

I really got nothin more for ya if you doubt Paul or Peter is telling the truth. You don't have to believe in tongues if you don't want to, but I do encourage you to pray to God for wisdom to read and understand His word.

True that lol glad I could give you a laugh tho

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

You know Music I'm slightly concerned about some of your comments on the Christian board. If you are genuinely interested in learning about the bible and the different aspects of Christianity, why don't you contact a pastor or a friend who is knowledgeable to explain some of the concepts that you haven't grasped? Correct me if I'm wrong but are you interested in learning or just challenging certain beliefs? What's your purpose?

The reason I'm asking is because how you are coming off is going to turn people away from engaging you in conversation, at least in the Christian board. I think most of the ladies really do like to share and learn more about being a Christian and the different aspects of God. I think before you post anything else you should ask yourself "what purpose am I serving? Will I make a valuable contribution to the discussion. Will this be an opprotunity for someone to learn?" If you can't answer your own question or the answer is no, then perhaps you should observe until you have something meaningful to add to the discussion.

I say this in the most loving way possible... Whom are you to challenge the relevance or "meaningfulness" (that might not be a word oops in a rush) about what I say? If I post something you don't agree with it is simply that... If you take it as a challenge then I guess it is, however I am learning about other people's point of view while you are getting mad at mine... Which one of us is getting what their $6.50 paid for? I know I am, because this is interesting and fun to me. If you don't like it just don't read my posts. Or you can say stuff like you just did... That's cool too... This is an online forum, not a tea party... Your perceptions and your thoughts are your right just as mine are... Last time I checked forums were for discussion... And I am discussing. So please don't spend your time being offended because my posts are not going to change, and I hope that you wouldn't change for another person either. I don't see why you would take the time to address me about this... But since you did I will gladly reply... Just skip over mine if I bother u... That will keep everyone happy and it won't bother me...
At the end of the day does any of this even matter? No... So have some fun... I am

 

[MuseofTroy]

I say this in the most loving way possible... Whom are you to challenge the relevance or "meaningfulness" (that might not be a word oops in a rush) about what I say? If I post something you don't agree with it is simply that... If you take it as a challenge then I guess it is, however I am learning about other people's point of view while you are getting mad at mine... Which one of us is getting what their $6.50 paid for? I know I am, because this is interesting and fun to me. If you don't like it just don't read my posts. Or you can say stuff like you just did... That's cool too... This is an online forum, not a tea party... Your perceptions and your thoughts are your right just as mine are... Last time I checked forums were for discussion... And I am discussing. So please don't spend your time being offended because my posts are not going to change, and I hope that you wouldn't change for another person either. I don't see why you would take the time to address me about this... But since you did I will gladly reply... Just skip over mine if I bother u... That will keep everyone happy and it won't bother me...
At the end of the day does any of this even matter? No... So have some fun... I am

You are an educator correct? As an educator you encourage your students to read thoroughly and have critical thinking skills correct? I admire educators because without them, we wouldn't have doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers etc. With that being said, can you clarify for me where in my post did I suggest that I was mad? I'm very direct and clear in my presentation so I'm not sure why you are putting words and feelings into my post. I challenged you to look within yourself to see if your words make a meaningful contribution to the thread. I didn't say you weren't insightful. In fact your posts have proven to be an excellent learning opportunity for some individuals. Sometimes when a question is asked, I'm forced to think about the issue on a deeper level. Nevertheless, I would highly encourage you that you read my post and others very carefully before you reply back and make assumptions.

 

[aribell]

I personally am very frightened in the company of people speaking in tongues and dancing around... in the spirit . Emotional experiences where they weep and cry out, dancing. I dunno, it kinda freaks me out. They seem edified and at peace though, which is kewl and important...no one being harmed. I just don't prefer to have anything to do with it because I do not comprehend it. I have to think that they are probably just as freaked out about my religious/spiritual experiences of another genre.

I can't really tolerate it either. Walked out of a church service with a woman pastor who I geninely believed had a gift of prophecy and had personally experienced it. And yet once they got started I just up and left, which I'm sure was noticeable as there were only like 15 people in the service, if that. I haven't been back since. I think there ends up being a lot of spiritual confusion in situations like that. Some people in the Spirit, others in their own psychological trance-like states, others emotionally frenzied, and some perhaps demonically influenced, as others have posted about. I couldn't speak to that, but in that particular situation and others my spirit was screaming out that there was unholiness present.

You have to believe first in order to recieve and do the acts of Jesus (John 14:12). That is the truth in accepting God as your Lord and Savior, health, prosperity, and yes tongues. In (Luke 16: 15-20) Talks about new tongues as a sign of belief it also speaks about healing. In Acts 8 Acts 10 and Acts 11. These chapter talk about how you can believe and receive God but how some also receive the Holy Spirit. With the Holy spirit comes tongues but more importantly comes the power to heal and do acts of goodness.

In general, I think people agree that you have to believe and if you do genuinely believe, then the Holy Spirit will be manifested in your life and with power. But we can't elevate tongues over everything else or any other manifestation of the Spirit.

In Romans, Paul is countering exactly this idea, that one spiritual gift is better than another: "Fory by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly...For as in one body we have many members and the members do not all have the same function."

And the manifestation of God's power isn't all wrapped up in one package for the individual believer, but is poured out on the Body as a whole, God's church as a whole. So, yes, all spiritual gifts are a manifestation of the presence of the Spirit, but they are apportioned to every believer differently. Some speak tongues, some heal, some interpret, etc. 1 Cor. 13.

It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name? Didn't we prophesy? Didn't we do other mighty works?" And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands. (Matthew 7:21) Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc. (Matthew 25)

Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only God's power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through whomever He chooses. So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive. We are specifically told, and repeatedly in the Bible, that those who do the will of God are His true children. Those who obey His commandments. That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.

Gifts versus fruits. Gifts are those things that are freely given, without anything having to be done by the recipient. Fruits are the evidence of the content of one's heart. All of the spiritual experiences talked about in the Bible and manifestation of the Spirit's power are considered gifts. But we are taught that the way we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith is to see our fruit...not the gifts that we have. And the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, and self-control. As Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruit."

I personally feel that talking about this is important because like others mentioned before, people can be living in sin and then go to church, have x, y, or z experiences, and base their confidence in their relationship with God on these things. Or believe that they are more spiritual because they had z, y, or x experience. (see purple below) We can't do that. We keep talking about whether tongues is the evidence of salvation, and yet the Lord gives us explicit instructions multiple times as to how we are to examine our spiritual state: first by simply believing in Christ for our salvation and then obeying Him as Lord--looking at the fruit (not the gifts) that is produced in our lives, looking at our lives and seeing if we are obeying His commands. Focusing on what gifts we do or do not have (or our "health and prosperity") is a distraction from that.

(Btw, contrary to the idea that tongues is a sign of spiritual maturity, Christian authors throughout the centuries have consistently said that oftentimes God gives such supernatural experiences to new Christians, but begins to wean more mature Christians off of them so that they learn to have faith without being dependent on God manifesting Himself in a particular way in order to continue to believe. Check out John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul. Just putting that out there as something different to think about.)

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name? Didn't we prophesy? Didn't we do other mighty works?" And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands. (Matthew 7:21) Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc. (Matthew 25)

Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only God's power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through whomever He chooses. So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive. We are specifically told, and repeatedly in the Bible, that those who do the will of God are His true children. Those who obey His commandments. That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.

Gifts versus fruits. Gifts are those things that are freely given, without anything having to be done by the recipient. Fruits are the evidence of the content of one's heart. All of the spiritual experiences talked about in the Bible and manifestation of the Spirit's power are considered gifts. But we are taught that the way we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith is to see our fruit...not the gifts that we have. And the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, and self-control. As Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruit."

I personally feel that talking about this is important because like others mentioned before, people can be living in sin and then go to church, have x, y, or z experiences, and base their confidence in their relationship with God on these things. Or believe that they are more spiritual because they had z, y, or x experience. (see purple below) We can't do that. We keep talking about whether tongues is the evidence of salvation, and yet the Lord gives us explicit instructions multiple times as to how we are to examine our spiritual state: first by simply believing in Christ for our salvation and then obeying Him as Lord--looking at the fruit (not the gifts) that is produced in our lives, looking at our lives and seeing if we are obeying His commands. Focusing on what gifts we do or do not have (or our "health and prosperity") is a distraction from that.

(Btw, contrary to the idea that tongues is a sign of spiritual maturity, Christian authors throughout the centuries have consistently said that oftentimes God gives such supernatural experiences to new Christians, but begins to wean more mature Christians off of them so that they learn to have faith without being dependent on God manifesting Himself in a particular way in order to continue to believe. Check out John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul. Just putting that out there as something different to think about.)

I'm sorry y'all, this kid is brilliant!!! I just have to say it. Did you say you studied theology? Springfield? You sound just like so many I know of who studied there and they are so well-balanced, it's incredible. Mini shout-out to Show-me.

 

[Laela]

Nicola,

Man reasons, that's a fact. God doesn't. When Jesus was here, he was a student of the law and he did reason because he was made man. There's nothing wrong with studying the Word and being critical, but not to the point of disbelief. This is what I had issue with.

My comments were specific to the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues

Our goal as Believers or Christians, or whatever we choose to call ourselves, is to be more like God and less like man. When I said what I said, I wasn't condeming or saying that God condemns intellect. If you feel I was being haughty, that's not the case. But IMHO, applying pure logic to understand the Holy Ghost (or God himself, rather) is counterproductive, as he is a spiritual diety.

I personally know people who read the Bible and are atheists or not saved and say so. Studying it and applying its principles are two separate things. I'm not implicating anything about anyone in this forum, because I don't know anyone here. I'm just saying the Bible is for ANYONE to read/study.

To specifically address speaking in tongues: Someone said that they "waited" to speak in tongues and nothing happens. Well, Faith without works is dead.. IOW, there has to be corresponding actions if anyone is to exercise their faith. Like I said, God won't force himself on anyone; We have to be open to receive him for him to be a part of our lives.

There are a lot of things I cannot articulate or explain for it to make any "sense" and until you experience something yourself, a person will have a hard time explaining it to you or convincing you to believe. This is where FAITH comes in. God isn't to be questioned or figured out. He is to be embraced and welcomed into our lives BY FAITH.

The last time I wrote a post like this, it was censored (deleted)...

So I hope you get to read it... lol

I don't understand the distinction being made between reasoning and faith. Blazingthru said she read the Bible and came to a particular conclusion based on what she believed it said. That's what we're supposed to do. God said, "Come, let us reason together." We are also told to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

The Bible never condemns intellect as being merely human. Rather it is the "wisdom of the world" spoken of in Corinthians that we are to guard against. And the wisdom of the world isn't about not using our reasoning skills but about the world's values and ways of thinking. No, we'll never come to the truth if we think the way the world thinks, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't think critically about our spiritual experiences or our interpretation of the Bible. We grow in having "the mind of Christ" as we continually learn what the Bible says and understand what it is requiring of us. You can't do that without reason and intellect.

I stand corrected on this, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I had a discussion earlier today with a brother and he did say I was not quite right.. He said speaking in the Spirit and tongues are sometime interchangeable in error. But when a person who can speak in tongues prays in the Spirit, they will speak in tongues. I hope I'm better at articulating this.

Also, Jude doesn't say that praying in the Spirit means praying with tongues. Is there somewhere else where that connection is made?

 

[Laela]

It's evident that this is more a clash of faith and reason, than a clash of personalities. The former is more intolerable for some than the latter. But it's an interesting discussion indeed.

Everyone is welcome to post their opinion in this thread. Personalities will clash...but all I see are valid questionings, answers and grey area.

 

[Laela]

Well said!! And I tell you we ought to know why this will happen. Many people will SAY they love but not actually have any love in their hearts. This is how God knows us, through our hearts. We can do great things without having the heart to do it.

All God knows and is is LOVE. If we love God, we will keep his commandments. To not do his will is to not love God. To not love God is to reject him - that's what makes a person condemn themselves to hell.

So it is very possible to go through the rituals of a Christian life and not make it to heaven.

Still, there are those who do his will and yield to the Holy Spirit and also do great works and cast out demons and heal with a touch.

ITA with you on the importance of talking about this.

It's odd that in our churches we focus on these supernatural experiences to be evidence that the Holy Spirit is with us and that we are truly God's own, and yet Jesus gave His story where people at the last day will be saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do x, y, or z in your name? Didn't we prophesy? Didn't we do other mighty works?" And He is going to tell them not that they didn't do those things, but that they were not obedient to God's commands. (Matthew 7:21) Those He names as actually doing the will of the Father are those who feed the sick, clothe the poor, visit the imprisoned, welcome the stranger, etc. (Matthew 25)

Yes, Jesus definitely tells the apostles--the founders of the Christian church as a whole--that they will do great works, but at the end of the day, those experiences reflect nothing about us, only God's power, which can be manifested at any time, in any place, and through whomever He chooses. So to say "Oh, I healed this person here, I was given a prophetic word there, I spoke in tongues or interpreted, etc. and that shows how close I am to God," is deceptive. We are specifically told, and repeatedly in the Bible, that those who do the will of God are His true children. Those who obey His commandments. That's not how we are saved, but it's those things, not tongues or any other spiritual gift, that God tells us to look at to see if we are really walking with Him.

Gifts versus fruits. Gifts are those things that are freely given, without anything having to be done by the recipient. Fruits are the evidence of the content of one's heart. All of the spiritual experiences talked about in the Bible and manifestation of the Spirit's power are considered gifts. But we are taught that the way we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith is to see our fruit...not the gifts that we have. And the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, and self-control. As Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruit."

I personally feel that talking about this is important because like others mentioned before, people can be living in sin and then go to church, have x, y, or z experiences, and base their confidence in their relationship with God on these things. Or believe that they are more spiritual because they had z, y, or x experience. (see purple below) We can't do that. We keep talking about whether tongues is the evidence of salvation, and yet the Lord gives us explicit instructions multiple times as to how we are to examine our spiritual state: first by simply believing in Christ for our salvation and then obeying Him as Lord--looking at the fruit (not the gifts) that is produced in our lives, looking at our lives and seeing if we are obeying His commands. Focusing on what gifts we do or do not have (or our "health and prosperity") is a distraction from that.

(Btw, contrary to the idea that tongues is a sign of spiritual maturity, Christian authors throughout the centuries have consistently said that oftentimes God gives such supernatural experiences to new Christians, but begins to wean more mature Christians off of them so that they learn to have faith without being dependent on God manifesting Himself in a particular way in order to continue to believe. Check out John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul. Just putting that out there as something different to think about.)

 

[aribell]

I'm sorry y'all, this kid is brilliant!!! I just have to say it. Did you say you studied theology? Springfield? You sound just like so many I know of who studied there and they are so well-balanced, it's incredible. Mini shout-out to Show-me.

Well, I'm glad you found it useful. I didn't go to Springfield, but I had some truly terrific, brilliant, and godly professors at the Christian university I attended (btw, anyone with teenagers looking for a Christian college, check out www.eastern.edu). Learned an immense amount from those folks. Anyway, I am from the show-me state, though, so double shout-out!

Nicola,

Man reasons, that's a fact. God doesn't. When Jesus was here, he was a student of the law and he did reason because he was made man. There's nothing wrong with studying the Word and being critical, but not to the point of disbelief. This is what I had issue with.

My comments were specific to the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues

Our goal as Believers or Christians, or whatever we choose to call ourselves, is to be more like God and less like man. When I said what I said, I wasn't condeming or saying that God condemns intellect. If you feel I was being haughty, that's not the case. But IMHO, applying pure logic to understand the Holy Ghost (or God himself, rather) is counterproductive, as he is a spiritual diety.

I personally know people who read the Bible and are atheists or not saved and say so. Studying it and applying its principles are two separate things. I'm not implicating anything about anyone in this forum, because I don't know anyone here. I'm just saying the Bible is for ANYONE to read/study.

To specifically address speaking in tongues: Someone said that they "waited" to speak in tongues and nothing happens. Well, Faith without works is dead.. IOW, there has to be corresponding actions if anyone is to exercise their faith. Like I said, God won't force himself on anyone; We have to be open to receive him for him to be a part of our lives.

There are a lot of things I cannot articulate or explain for it to make any "sense" and until you experience something yourself, a person will have a hard time explaining it to you or convincing you to believe. This is where FAITH comes in. God isn't to be questioned or figured out. He is to be embraced and welcomed into our lives BY FAITH.

The last time I wrote a post like this, it was censored (deleted)...

So I hope you get to read it... lol


I stand corrected on this, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I had a discussion earlier today with a brother and he did say I was not quite right.. He said speaking in the Spirit and tongues are sometime interchangeable in error. But when a person who can speak in tongues prays in the Spirit, they will speak in tongues. I hope I'm better at articulating this.

I get what you're saying.